00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.06.14 00:00:33 hi 00:04:35 Is Gforth the same thing as Gnu Forth? 00:07:04 afaik yes 00:07:49 Thanks 00:15:59 Any chance that a modern Forth might have some networking capability? 00:16:00 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:16:28 all chances 00:16:56 those that do not have cannot be called modern 00:17:16 ygrek: is there a particular Forth that I should look for if I'm interested in doing some network stuff? 00:17:40 I do use only spf on regular basis. 00:17:45 It has everything needed 00:18:30 Does that have an operating system under it? 00:19:14 Ah, found it! 00:19:22 SP-Forth ? 00:19:47 yes 00:19:52 it works on Windows 00:20:15 Linux port in progress 00:20:33 Just Linux, or other unices too? 00:21:41 first of all linux, other unices maybe - if the maintainer will have time and will.. 00:21:48 I am not aware of details 00:22:11 ok, thanks. 00:22:54 If you don' t mind a little minimalism, you can also consider RetroForth. 00:23:08 minimalism is right up my alley 00:23:14 Is that also available for unix? 00:23:54 It runs on nearly everything AND the author is nick = crc in these forth chats. 00:24:23 That's a huge advantage. 00:24:24 There are native versions that are the os. 00:24:36 It is. 00:25:32 Native would be lovely if there were Ethernet or IP drivers. 00:26:15 Indeed. Sometimes, driver docs and specs are had to get. 00:27:02 But, some people have done work in these directions in other systems and it's just porting over what ever you need. 00:27:22 It's online, somewhere, someone has done it in forth. 00:29:51 okay 00:30:03 I just fetched and unpacked retro-9.3 00:30:07 You usually find it right after you re-invent it! :) 00:30:08 how do I build it? 00:30:12 cool. 00:30:17 what system are you on? 00:30:35 NetBSD 4.99.20 NetBSD 4.99.20 (ALMOND-$Revision: 4.mungrel $) #4: Mon May 21 14:04:43 GMT 2007 root@:/usr/obj/sys/arch/i386/compile/ALMOND i386 00:31:30 look at the make file, I believe there is an allowance for that port, not sure, diggin' thru files... searching... 00:32:26 the Makefile seems to want fasm. 00:32:38 (or perhaps just some random assembler.) 00:33:05 there is a netBSD port there, good. 00:33:20 ya I think you are corect about FASM 00:33:29 correct even. 00:33:42 Oh well. 00:33:50 checkin the site... 00:33:57 Perhaps I'll try gforth then 00:34:25 You can certainly find what you need there, I believe. 00:35:14 Okay. I may have another crack at this later today if I get time 00:35:20 RayS: thanks for your help 00:35:33 ygrek too. 00:35:36 Goodnight everyone 00:35:40 Where always here, come back, any time, and your welcome 00:35:49 I'll come back then. 00:35:52 Goodnight 00:35:53 --- quit: ball ("leaving") 01:13:07 --- quit: RayS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:14:18 --- join: RayS (n=Ray_stma@adsl-68-95-147-65.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:25:12 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 01:59:39 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 02:09:11 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e1138615db2e7985) joined #forth 03:02:13 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 03:02:14 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:04:24 --- join: skas_wk (n=skas@202-90-54-135.static.linearg.net) joined #forth 03:23:38 --- join: ccfg (n=ccfg@dsl-roigw1-fe8ade00-21.dhcp.inet.fi) joined #forth 04:06:04 --- quit: skas_wk ("Leaving") 04:38:44 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 04:38:44 --- quit: TreyB_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:38:44 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:33:34 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 05:46:04 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:29:22 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:46:51 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@bas2-kitchener06-1096620731.dsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 08:25:15 --- join: segher__ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-196-132.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:31:08 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 08:33:00 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:44:56 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:13:25 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:13:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 09:21:21 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@c-24-126-64-144.hsd1.md.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:21:53 --- nick: yumehito_ -> yumehito 09:48:45 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-eaca3609bd7490ad) joined #forth 10:07:57 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@205.205.50.1) joined #forth 10:48:40 ok so.... 0<> negate... that looks like a 0= to me ! 10:48:43 lol 10:48:48 why do people do that crap? 10:53:32 what people 10:53:36 what code are you looking at 10:54:55 im looking at the assembler that comes with kforth 10:55:39 it was a port of frank sergants pygmy forth assembler done by tom novelli, reworked for kforth 10:55:45 0<> negate seems like if the answer was true then the output would be 1 10:55:58 0= 10:56:06 is 0<> not 10:56:20 its testing for inequality with zero. and inverting the result 10:56:28 i.e. testing for equality with zero 10:56:48 oh but i thought negate was slightly different from not 10:56:54 0= and 0<> are tests for zero or for not zero 10:57:02 negate is an ans limp wristedness 10:57:23 because some old forths defined 0= and not in the same way 10:57:45 the 83 standard fixed that. 0= is a test for 0. not is a 1's complement 10:57:52 ans decied NOT to define not 10:58:07 that way, which ever definition you were used to was fine by them 10:58:23 dude 10:58:28 i just tested them in SwiftForth 10:58:29 so they invented a new limp wristed "invert" 10:58:32 the output is different 10:58:37 think of all the useful forth libraries which could exist by now if people didn't bicker over ANS 10:59:48 100 0<> negate . 1 ok 10:59:48 0 0<> negate . 0 ok 10:59:48 100 0= . 0 ok 10:59:48 0 0= . -1 ok 11:00:17 thats wrong 11:00:24 its irrelevant 11:00:26 oh. yes thats correct 11:00:29 write some applications 11:00:30 100 0 11:00:32 argh 11:00:50 100 0<> is true. thats a flag. not a numerical value. negate should not be used on flags 11:01:06 negate and invert are different 11:01:12 negate and NOT are different 11:01:30 invert is the ans standard teams way of not having to define not 11:01:36 slava is right!! 11:01:44 and i'm going back to mine right now! 11:02:13 im stalled. i need an assembler and i wont be happy with one unless im the author and i CANNOT for the life of me write it 11:02:18 so... im stalled 11:02:34 write your own its the only answer. i did it in 3 days on my system. 11:03:00 you can do it 11:03:07 i have not been able to write an x86 assembler in over 3 years 11:03:23 give me a break 11:03:34 i wont use an bass ackwards assembler. i want one that will allow me to feed the EXISTING soruces with nothing but a few spaces inserted here and there 11:03:37 you've been complaining about this assembler issue for too long now 11:03:40 i cant. ive tried 11:03:58 there's no such thing as "can't" when it comes to programming 11:03:59 im at a complete and utter loss as to how to write it 11:04:07 some projects are harder than others but its a matter of time and resources 11:04:15 learn about parsing 11:04:19 assembler syntax is trivial 11:04:26 you could write one that's100% compatible with nasm if you wanted to 11:05:11 you can always write an ugly one then clean it up later 11:05:39 or you could decide what you want to do in the first place and maybe avoid it altogether 11:05:52 ? 11:06:29 like if its going to be so hard for you, maybe you can figure a way to do without it 11:06:39 no 11:06:52 i need the assembler or i cant metacompile 11:07:01 till im metacompiling i cannot call isforth a REAL forth 11:07:21 any forth that is incapable of compiling its own sources is not worth a damn. ive always said it 11:07:50 why does it matter? 11:07:52 well, my forth cant recompile itself, yet, but i'm still using it 11:08:07 because it matters 11:08:20 maybe you'll pick up the right assembler on your way 11:08:27 pick up ? 11:08:45 find one, sorry 11:08:51 maybe you'll find one 11:09:29 not in 3 years have i found anyone elses forth assembler that i would even CONSIDER using. either they have a license that breaks mine or a syntax from hell 11:09:44 you're making barriers for yourself 11:10:07 it is not hard to write an assembler ... trust me 11:10:37 you could even write a quick tool to convert standard input to an input in another syntax 11:10:38 before i was every a forth coder i was an assembler coder. i cannot use 4 # ax mov or crap like that it just doesnt work for me... ive HAD to use it at work but to do it i first have to write the 5 line asm function in a more natural way 11:10:41 and transpose it 11:10:46 i cant think in forth assembler 11:10:58 then write a prefix assember 11:10:58 also 11:11:19 im not prepared to take all my existing sources and BUTCHER them to fit some assembler 11:11:24 man, my advice is to quit whining. i've had enough of this so i'm going back to my project, for real this time. 11:11:26 ive tried 11:11:29 over and over 11:11:31 write a 3 line perl script to reformat your assembler 11:11:37 sources 11:12:34 i did write a prefix assembler. for the 8051 11:16:38 you're too much of a perfectionist 11:16:43 get something working first THEN make it elegant and pretty 11:16:59 lol thats how i always code 11:17:10 i have tried to "get something working" 11:17:22 when i started my compiler i didn't even HAVE an assembler. i would just emit hard-coded hex sequences 11:17:36 then i got a few upcodes working but i had a dozen different words for MOV because i didn't have operand encoding worked out 11:17:51 brb... 11:25:07 yea well its the 'figuring out" part ive not been able to do :/ 11:25:20 it was easy on the 8051 but the x86 is just a bish 11:28:59 yea mov is complex :/ 11:54:47 --- join: xleroy (n=revence@217.113.73.39) joined #forth 11:55:52 --- quit: xleroy ("Killed by BlackJac (Requested by panasync)") 11:56:01 --- part: RayS left #forth 11:56:04 --- quit: Raystm2- ("I've embarrassed my self enough for one day.") 12:28:49 --- join: alexshendi (n=alexshen@dslb-088-065-239-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:57:04 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:45:24 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 14:25:51 --- quit: rabbitwhite ("New look! Same great product.") 15:01:29 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:01:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:10:14 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489E8BF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:15:23 --- join: RayS (n=Ray_stma@adsl-68-95-147-65.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 15:17:27 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:17:17 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 16:22:40 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@201.5.8.110) joined #forth 16:50:22 --- nick: segher__ -> segher 16:57:07 --- quit: edrx ("rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.50.1") 17:48:39 --- join: skas_wk (n=skas@121.127.198.32) joined #forth 18:02:50 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:06:05 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@201.5.13.249) joined #forth 18:18:56 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-160-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:30:36 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@c-24-126-64-144.hsd1.md.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:30:46 --- part: edrx left #forth 18:54:12 --- join: bobber (n=kavacon@c-67-190-205-78.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:54:28 Well........ 18:56:51 hi bobber 18:57:05 slava: hi there 19:01:58 hi 19:02:10 how much of the book is done quartus? 19:02:38 3/8 19:02:48 really? 19:02:49 not bad 19:03:29 Book? 19:04:50 Forth book. 19:04:57 In progress. 19:05:03 How's Pelc's going for you? 19:06:56 So far ok, not too far yet 19:07:20 I did 'jump ahead a bit' at work today 19:07:37 two steps forward 19:07:46 Playing around with P@ 19:07:52 what's p@ ? 19:08:50 Fetch something from a port 19:08:55 uh, ok. What Forth has that? 19:11:24 F-PC 19:11:32 ah. Another antique. 19:11:37 heh 19:11:55 ahahahaha 19:12:09 You'll find it tough going if you persist in using an olde Forth with a new book, or vice versa 19:15:25 Quartus: Yeah, I know....but I could not resist. We use a communication tool at work that allows us to read data from remote measuring equipment via an RS-232 com port (HART). I wanted to see if I could use the P@ function to 'pigiback' onto it to capture the incoming bytes 19:49:23 --- quit: rabbitwhite ("New look! Same great product.") 19:52:36 --- quit: bobber (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:47:50 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:49:32 --- part: skas_wk left #forth 20:55:46 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:55:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 21:01:29 --- quit: slava () 21:07:40 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:07:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 21:07:44 --- quit: slava (Remote closed the connection) 22:54:00 --- quit: alexshendi ("Leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.06.14