00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.06.13 00:10:16 --- quit: Quartus () 01:05:24 --- quit: Raystm2 ("I've embarrassed my self enough for one day.") 01:05:30 --- part: RayS left #forth 01:13:02 --- join: RayS (n=Ray_stma@adsl-68-95-225-229.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:52:07 --- quit: maht (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:55:01 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 01:58:20 --- join: maht (n=maht@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk) joined #forth 02:04:37 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-253f2d9707da0803) joined #forth 02:05:44 --- join: dobblego (n=nobody@220-245-107-64.static.tpgi.com.au) joined #forth 02:05:46 --- part: dobblego left #forth 02:22:24 --- join: skas_wk (n=skas@202-90-54-135.static.linearg.net) joined #forth 04:14:32 --- part: RayS left #forth 04:14:36 --- join: RayS (n=Ray_stma@adsl-68-95-225-229.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:51:32 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@201.5.13.241) joined #forth 05:10:42 --- quit: skas_wk ("Leaving") 05:36:54 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:36:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 05:39:52 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:16:34 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 06:17:58 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 06:19:43 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-b0998492b194da80) joined #forth 06:19:52 --- quit: Quartus () 06:20:08 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:20:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 06:21:04 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 06:21:11 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:26:11 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-99da1e1066777165) joined #forth 06:26:27 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 06:30:53 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-57c06f3110df1ebc) joined #forth 06:38:33 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:48:40 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@205.205.50.1) joined #forth 07:14:54 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:15:24 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 07:40:39 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 07:44:34 --- quit: edrx ("rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.50.1") 07:51:02 --- quit: RayS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:01:46 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@c-24-126-64-144.hsd1.md.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:16:39 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-95-147-65.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:24:53 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-216-137.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 08:25:35 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-129-016.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:26:02 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 08:32:13 --- quit: segher__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:35:34 --- join: Quiznos (i=Quiznos@c-68-56-57-236.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:35:48 b00 08:36:34 i've been thinking that the data stack could be made more dynamic on the heap 08:36:42 or, a heap 08:37:28 and higher level words could then be writ to take a stack (or list) and apply a function to all the elements on the stack 08:37:46 and that is lispy. 08:38:30 --- quit: rabbitwhite ("New look! Same great product.") 08:38:52 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:45:43 Quiznos - do it, see how you like it, and report your findings to comp.lang.forth 08:48:36 Quiznos - and: probably the first word you'll want will be APPLY ( xt stack -- stack' ), which evaluates a happy normal Forth word in the context of a stack. 08:57:21 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@205.205.50.2) joined #forth 09:04:33 --- join: Raystm2- (n=NanRay@adsl-68-95-147-65.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:04:33 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:06:16 --- quit: Quiznos (Connection reset by peer) 09:07:04 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@c-24-126-64-144.hsd1.md.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:10:55 --- join: Quiznos (i=Quiznos@c-68-56-57-236.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:35:34 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 09:35:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 09:37:24 --- quit: rabbitwhite ("New look! Same great product.") 10:08:09 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 10:14:00 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:33:03 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-129-016.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 10:42:34 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:51:36 --- join: RayS (n=Ray_stma@adsl-68-95-147-65.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 10:56:28 --- join: Line_Noise (n=Line_Noi@207.6.94.174) joined #forth 10:56:56 is there a way to get the room bot to send you the last ~n# of lines shared on the channel before you joined the channle? 11:00:59 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again!") 11:06:17 --- quit: Quiznos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:33:22 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:52:59 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-240-108.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 12:01:04 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:01:27 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-240-108.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 12:05:53 --- quit: tgunr (Client Quit) 12:09:54 --- join: Guest6357457 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-182-106.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:18:19 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:18:39 --- nick: Guest6357457 -> Snoopy42 12:33:45 --- join: alexshendi (n=alexshen@dslb-088-066-108-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:04:14 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:30:07 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 13:33:31 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@205.205.50.1) joined #forth 14:29:55 --- part: Line_Noise left #forth 14:33:23 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@70.102.202.140) joined #forth 14:55:16 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:01:00 --- join: duncanm (n=duncanm@209.101.38.254) joined #forth 15:01:19 I440r: do you have a working terminfo parser? 15:01:33 --- join: crest__ (n=crest@p5489EDAF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:03:28 hi duncanm 15:04:19 hello 15:04:49 --- join: sorear (n=stefan@ip68-6-133-142.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 15:07:12 hi 15:09:20 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:10:23 --- join: Guest6357457 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-176-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:13:17 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:13:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:14:26 --- nick: crest__ -> Crest 15:14:27 is I440r idle a lot? 15:14:38 yeah 15:14:45 he's searching for gold with his metal detector 15:14:48 hehe 15:14:59 IsForth does have a working terminfo parser 15:16:05 lol 15:16:20 i'm writing one in scheme 15:16:24 duncanm, yes isforth does have one 15:16:31 the capability strings stuff seems a bit hairy to me 15:16:33 hi I440r 15:16:39 i've been using the lisp impl as a guide 15:17:05 it also has a good text windowing system. it still needs some work but it is good :0 15:17:09 hi slava :) 15:17:49 duncanm, do u have isforth? 15:17:54 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:17:56 I440r: is the code available somewhere? i don't see a link in the isforth page 15:18:02 the terminfo parser is in src/termina/term.f 15:18:09 oh, download 15:18:15 isforth.clss.net 15:18:17 --- nick: Guest6357457 -> Snoopy42 15:18:29 yea. the download link heh 15:18:45 u need nasm and if it crashes on extend i know how to fix. 15:18:58 that problem will go away once someone writes an assembler for me :P 15:19:08 i cant write the damned assembler :/ 15:19:47 I'd write one, but I don't agree with your ridiculous hangups about syntax :P 15:20:00 I440r: where did you learn about the format? 15:20:03 actually, term.f just reads the terminfo file my bad. terminfo.f is the parser lol 15:20:09 man 5 terminfo 15:20:11 literally 15:22:32 hi tathi 15:23:31 hi Quartus 15:34:33 hmm 15:38:06 studying the isforth sources? 15:42:24 i don't really know Forth, so i've just browsing around 15:43:34 well even if u know forth that code might not be THAT easy to follow lol 15:56:01 --- part: duncanm left #forth 16:22:50 --- join: bobber (i=bobber@171-189.dynamic.visi.com) joined #forth 16:25:04 --- quit: sorear ("leaving") 16:26:45 --- quit: bobber (Client Quit) 16:37:35 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@195134062103.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 17:13:25 --- join: sorear (n=stefan@ip68-6-133-142.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 17:22:20 --- join: vatic (n=vatic@ool-45740b1c.dyn.optonline.net) joined #forth 17:28:44 --- join: bobber (i=bobber@169-75.dynamic.visi.com) joined #forth 17:29:49 : ARGGGHHH ?LANGUAGE CRAZY THIS LEARN EVER I WILL ; 17:31:29 bobber: It is a widely denied, but nevertheless true, fact that almost all modern forth systems do not enforce ANS's uppercase requirement. 17:32:44 sorear: Oh that helps tons! ;) ;) :) 17:33:12 forth is easy to learn 17:33:21 it can be hard to get useful things done, though, depending on library and tool availability 17:35:34 werty's a tool. He's always available. 17:36:09 werty? 17:36:13 a tool 17:36:40 Quartus: unfortuantely for us mere mortals, a not very accessible tools 17:36:44 s/tools/tool 17:36:51 a gasoline-powered idiot 17:39:51 what problems are you having, bobber? 17:40:59 ...? 17:41:09 Quartus: Just getting bogged down and then lost in all the details....."this word calls that word which calls the other word which leaves the address of the second to the last word on the stack" 17:41:14 ....except on tuesdays 17:41:29 don't worry about hte stack too much, it is a means to an end not an end in itself 17:41:30 sounds like you're working from a craptastic tutorial of some kind 17:42:30 anything you can be specific about that you're not getting? 17:42:45 --- join: skas_wk (n=skas@121.127.198.32) joined #forth 17:43:11 Quartus: Thats probably part of the trouble....I just start getting into one, and then a typo in the tut throws me off. Or, the tut uses a Word that is not in the system I'm currently using, so I switch to another, only to have the same problem crop up 17:43:18 a typo? 17:43:49 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Remote closed the connection) 17:43:52 slava: did you ever get an evaluation copy of MacForth? 17:43:57 no 17:44:02 i don't really need one 17:44:12 slava: ok. 17:44:33 I'm currently working through "Forth Guide" by Glen Haydon. I have found several typos....things like missing spaces, misspelled words etc 17:44:56 ok, I know what a typo is, but why does that stop you? 17:45:02 Isn't that an antique, though? 17:45:06 Yup 17:45:26 1985. Yup. Bad choice. 17:45:48 Most of the tutorial stuff I'm finding on line is pretty old. 17:45:57 Have you looked at Pelc's book? 17:46:08 bobber: what are you goals in learning Forth? 17:46:54 Quartus: Don't recognize the name. 17:47:07 http://www.mpeforth.com/arena/ProgramForth.pdf 17:47:10 slava: Too --understand-- 17:47:12 yes that's a good one 17:47:21 also Rather's book is available in PDF form 17:47:23 IIRC 17:47:32 bobber: and once you understand? 17:47:41 slava: And perhpas write some useful stuff to use at work 17:47:44 rather: copy-protected 17:47:56 --- part: sorear left #forth 17:51:08 Quartus: Re your question about typos....If there is a missing space in some word like ." or ' a neewbie can waste a lot of time finding it when he doesn't know what to look for. :-/ 17:53:05 Quartus: Ok, I have the Pelc PDF....looks interesting....I'll give it a whirl 17:57:38 It's at least new. 17:59:04 Quartus: Any suggestions on which distribution (if that is the correct term) I should use with it? 17:59:10 Gforth. 17:59:26 Quartus: Ok, I have that one. 17:59:44 A standard forth and a new book; that'll at least aim you roughly toward the goal. 18:00:42 that'll help you get answers when you get stuck, too. 18:01:08 Quartus: Thanks for the info. 18:01:23 Sure. Speak up when you get confused. 18:04:57 Quartus: Ok, what about something like "see" or "view". Neither seem to work in gforth 18:05:08 see works fine in gforth 18:05:31 : foo 3 5 + . ; see foo 18:06:17 Quartus: Hmmmmm....I'm getting "undefined word" when I enter see 18:06:26 what version of gforth are you running? 18:06:52 Quartus: Never mind..... cockpit trouble. :-/ 18:06:59 oh, you're just typing see, with nothing after it. 18:07:00 ;) 18:07:09 Quartus: Yep... 18:08:14 Quartus: Ahhhhhhhh 'see +' Bee-uuuu-tee-ful assembler code.. That THAT I understand. :) 18:09:08 right. The display generated by see is implementation-dependent. In Gforth you get assembler for the primitives, and source reconstruction from higher-level stuff. 18:10:37 see should throw a -32 Invalid name argument for a blank name, I think. 18:12:27 Quartus: Ok....now here is one thing that is tough going for a newbie... I just did a see on ' It shows that the first word in the definition is ('), so I see (') and that gives me a whole slew of other words to look up one at a time. By the time I get two or three layers in, I have forgotten what I had originally set out to learn 18:12:49 wow, sure. I'd expect that. Why are you disassembling primitives? 18:13:34 see is a debugging tool, not an interactive tutorial. 18:14:09 A dozen different standard systems may show a dozen different ways of internally organizing the dictionary, and doing name -> xt lookup. 18:14:10 Quartus: Good question..... ;) I guess most of the time it is because the description of a word like ' is a bit fuzzy to me so I will try to disassemble it to get a better idea of what is going on. 18:14:30 Quartus: Probably a mistake 18:14:44 If the description is fuzzy, ask for a clearer description. Delving into the implementation should be a last resort. 18:15:00 Quartus: That makes sense 18:16:12 You know there's a dictionary, right? Where words are recorded for the duration of the session? 18:16:46 Quartus: Yes 18:17:04 so when you define a new word, : hi ." Hello" ; that word goes into the dictionary. 18:17:28 Each word has a name, in this instance 'hi', and also an associated xt, which is a (not necessarily unique) numeric identifier by which it can be summoned. 18:17:43 ' hi . will display the xt for the word 'hi' 18:18:31 Quartus: And that numeric id is a address in memory.....yes? 18:18:55 Depends on the forth. You can't say that it's any particular thing, except that it's an xt. That xt can be passed to EXECUTE. 18:18:57 ' hi execute 18:19:17 Quartus: Yup, I was just reading about that today 18:19:35 on the system here, ' hi . -> 16306880 18:19:42 so 16306880 execute -> Hello 18:20:24 your xts will vary, of course. 18:20:46 Quartus: And your '->' verbage means "will display or return" correct? 18:20:50 right 18:21:17 fyi 'verbage' is akin to 'garbage' and is not a flattering way to describe someone's manner of communication 18:22:03 Quartus: That is another trouble I've been having. Recognizing where the forth 'words' leave off, and the descriptive text or symbols pick up in the written docs I've been reading 18:22:17 I don't have the luxury of changing typefaces here 18:22:33 Quartus: Sorry..... :) 18:22:37 There's some way to bold things, but I never recall it 18:25:36 at any rate try learning it from the language-facing side. You wouldn't learn C by disassembling the standard library. 18:29:04 Quartus: Ok...I'm off to peruse Pelc. Thanks again for the advice. 18:29:07 ok. 18:30:26 --- quit: bobber () 18:37:49 Hi Quartus! Have you looked at http://ffl.dvoudheusden.net/ ? 18:40:40 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-182-201.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:48:28 --- quit: Snoopy42 () 18:49:36 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-182-201.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:53:49 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 19:02:48 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:02:51 --- quit: TreyB_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:04:04 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 19:04:57 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=Miranda@c-24-126-64-144.hsd1.md.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:05:52 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:06:19 hi vatic 19:06:23 yes, a few months back 19:06:47 Quartus: is it useful and well-written? 19:07:17 Not in my opinion, but I haven't looked at it recently. 19:08:18 I'm sure it's useful to its developer. 19:12:58 what is the language ? 19:13:07 or program ? 19:13:34 It's forth. The program is the the Forth Foundation Library. 19:14:06 oh 19:14:23 i like the web design 19:15:13 If you're still learning Forth, like me, then it's prob'ly something good to look at to see how to do 1) a library 2) all the things the library includes. But for my money, I'd only ever include in my program those things that were needed and a library is just excess baggage. 19:15:42 factor has everything in ffl except for (fully functioning) regular expressions 19:15:47 I suppose I could trim the lib. 19:15:56 Many of those files include each other, so you have to buy into adopting the whole kit'n'kaboodle. That, and the cryptic 3-letter filenames set me back. 19:16:06 well the filenames are obfuscated too! 19:16:10 what is up with that 19:16:10 I see. 19:16:21 * RayS hasn't looked yet. 19:16:40 code sucks too 19:17:06 oh well, at least he's happy i guess 19:17:45 with the library i mean 19:20:24 --- part: skas_wk left #forth 19:33:22 --- quit: vatic () 19:37:16 --- join: vatic (n=vatic@ool-45740b1c.dyn.optonline.net) joined #forth 19:37:23 --- part: vatic left #forth 19:43:56 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:03:26 --- quit: ccfg ("leaving") 20:57:17 --- join: edrx (i=edrx@200.217.105.21) joined #forth 21:05:40 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 21:30:16 --- quit: rabbitwhite ("New look! Same great product.") 21:38:47 --- quit: ayrnieu (Remote closed the connection) 21:53:22 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/ayrnieu) joined #forth 22:23:06 --- part: edrx left #forth 22:37:23 --- quit: slava () 23:14:32 --- quit: alexshendi ("Leaving") 23:24:51 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-cafc39da6ce08e58) joined #forth 23:37:39 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 23:38:24 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-0afc5c1c3bd1ae7d) joined #forth 23:38:24 --- quit: ygrek (Client Quit) 23:40:35 --- join: ball (n=ball@adsl-68-72-97-77.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 23:41:51 Am I likely to find a Forth (perhaps for the PC) that runs native (no OS underneath) and includes a TCP/IP stack? 23:42:16 I'm thinking the smell of fresh coffee may help. 23:55:41 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-bd44ef9a3dc2fe9f) joined #forth 23:57:30 hello ygrek 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.06.13