00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.05.04 00:40:18 --- part: brx left #forth 01:07:08 --- quit: ygrek () 02:19:16 --- quit: ecraven ("brb") 03:11:13 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 03:12:00 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-7bc0b93fb2de7752) joined #forth 03:25:51 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 03:44:24 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 04:45:58 slava: wow, http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2007-05-03-code-coverage-tool-for-sbcl.html was posted yesterday 05:02:55 --- quit: gnomon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:06:36 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM001692f57b56.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:20:19 --- join: vatic (n=vatic@pool-162-84-152-182.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 05:21:02 --- quit: arke ("leaving") 05:21:08 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 05:25:39 --- join: kardinal (n=kvirc@e180172088.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 05:56:03 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:36:02 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=skquinn@adsl-75-59-253-133.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 06:36:18 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Client Quit) 06:44:48 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 07:05:36 --- join: tgunr_ (n=davec@70-41-217-20.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 07:07:00 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:02:06 --- join: AndyArmstrong_ (n=andy@82.152.157.85) joined #forth 08:02:07 --- quit: AndyArmstrong (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:09:02 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 08:09:04 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:09:10 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:09:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:11:12 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e6d0612afb017c4d) joined #forth 08:13:22 --- quit: AndyArmstrong_ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:13:22 --- quit: timlarson_ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:13:47 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 08:18:28 --- quit: tgunr_ () 08:18:45 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-217-20.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 08:21:22 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 08:24:03 --- quit: warpzero ("leaving") 08:24:09 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth 08:26:58 --- join: iano (n=iosgood@sub26-46.member.dsl-only.net) joined #forth 08:38:55 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 08:42:10 does anyone know the MPE ARM VFX Forth cross compiler? I have a problem with it, but maybe I just didn't understand the memory concept 08:45:30 that's the problem: http://forth.pastebin.ca/470878 09:18:43 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@fosforo.k8.com.br) joined #forth 09:29:38 --- join: ForthIRC (n=mhx@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:30:09 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 09:32:17 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:35:23 --- quit: ForthIRC (Remote closed the connection) 09:44:50 --- join: ForthIRC (n=mhx@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:47:57 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:49:48 --- quit: yumehito_ (Success) 09:50:15 --- quit: ForthIRC (Remote closed the connection) 09:50:39 --- join: ForthIRC (n=mhx@c-67-180-150-67.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:53:47 testing 09:54:21 --- quit: ForthIRC (Client Quit) 09:55:07 --- quit: forther ("Leaving") 10:11:35 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 10:15:03 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 10:15:03 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:16:04 --- nick: TreyB_ -> TreyB 10:18:07 --- part: edrx left #forth 10:54:06 anyone who wants to give a newbie some refactoring hints? I don't like the search-descriptor word in this code: http://forth.pastebin.ca/471042 10:55:33 btw: it's part of my upcoming free USB lpc2148 driver 11:01:07 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 11:13:15 looks like everybody is sleeping or at friday evening party, if in GMT time zone, but at least my code works :-) 12:07:11 Shine: cool! I'm involved with a group that is rewriting the Linux USB driver, and also looking at USB options for the lpc2148 (rejected eCos, now looking at FreeRTOS) 12:08:42 why do you want to rewrite the Linux USB driver? 12:09:50 because it doesn't follow the Unix read/write model very well 12:10:57 we are redesigning the interface to use fewer ioctls, instead having a virtual filesystem of endpoints which respond to open/close/read/write 12:11:24 see http://psas.pdx.edu/usbfs2 12:12:05 but that is on the Linux side. Our goal is to have a distributed system of lpc2148 USB nodes as well 12:13:05 in fact, I would very much like to have a Forth with USB capabilities for testing. :) 12:13:18 we are using Olimex boards for development 12:13:59 The whole system will eventually form the avionics package for an amateur rocket 12:14:01 I'm using this board, too. Currently I'm implementing HID, I can already receive setup-packet 12:15:49 here is another link http://psas.pdx.edu/LPC2148Software 12:16:38 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:19:35 looks like you are using C. My LPC2148 device implementation will be in Forth, compiled with the MPE ARM cross compiler (they have a inexpensive stamp edition) 12:20:24 Surprised MPE doesn't already support LPC2148+USB... 12:22:04 they have some special boards with some USB-to-serial-all-in-one-chips, but Stephen Pelc is interested in my driver, too :-) 12:22:54 one goal is to use it without driver installation in Windows and Linux, so I'm trying HID, because at least in Windows XP you can access a HID device without a driver 12:23:58 ok. comments... 12:24:40 not sure type-1/2 worth making constants for 12:24:47 just use 1 and 2 12:25:52 yes, this was just an example to avoid posting all USB constants :-) 12:26:01 fine 12:26:34 also use "begin ... again" instead of "begin true while ... repeat" 12:26:58 ok 12:27:14 but I don't like the many "exit"s and the locals 12:27:17 but even better is "begin dup c@ while ... repeat 12:30:09 thanks, this deletes one exit 12:30:38 I'm not sure, if it will be still readable without the locals 12:33:29 --- join: |kardina| (n=kvirc@e180156164.adsl.alicedsl.de) joined #forth 12:34:21 --- quit: kardinal (Nick collision from services.) 12:34:48 --- nick: |kardina| -> kardinal 12:34:59 you could also keep separate lists for each type 12:35:46 are descriptors actually characters strings? or just random numbers 12:37:15 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:40:14 iano: this depends on the typ. There are string descriptors, which I've tried to generate with this program: http://forth.pastebin.ca/470878 12:41:38 but a HID descriptor looks like this: 12:41:43 DESC_HID_HID start-descriptor 12:41:44 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 12:41:45 $0110 w, \ bcdHID 12:41:46 $00 c, \ bCountryCode 12:41:48 $01 c, \ bNumDescriptors = report 12:41:49 DESC_HID_REPORT c, \ bDescriptorType 12:41:51 0 c, \ LE_WORD(sizeof(abReportDesc)), 12:41:52 end-descriptor 12:41:57 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489C9AB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:43:10 ok, so it is really a structure, variant on the type 12:48:06 yes, you can read the formats in the USB 2.0 spec, chapter 9.6 12:49:56 I think the USB spec is way to complicated. Two transfer modes, control and isochronous, a device type and vendor id and then let the driver decide how to handle the data, would be much easier 12:50:19 four types: also bulk and interrupt 12:50:47 Shine: a standard built by committee over several revisions - it can't be simple 12:51:39 --- join: AndyArmstrong (n=andy@82.152.157.85) joined #forth 12:52:40 and then you have to buy a vendor and procut id, too, that's really silly, because it should be possible to use ASCII instead of two 16 bit numbers with a high speed bus like USB 12:56:32 iano: are you planning to implement all transfer modes? On http://psas.pdx.edu/usbfs2 at "Current Work" you wrote only something about control transfers 12:56:41 Shine: but it's the registration you need to buy 12:56:44 not the actual id 12:57:29 yes. We are actually most interested in isochronous for high frequency accelerometer telemetry 12:58:01 control transfers are kind of the minimum requirement, needed for device setup 12:58:49 also, that page may be out of date 12:59:09 gordonjcp: the registration is far too expensive and you need to renew it every year, you can buy the id, only, too, like I've done: http://www.voti.nl/pids/pidfaq.html 13:00:51 iano: with my idea, using HID to avoid drivers, I think I can't use the high speed transfer modes. What do you think about using something like mass storage and virtual files for implementing high speed transfers, but avoiding Windows or Linux driver development? 13:02:18 well, that is one of the goals of usbfs2, to allow userland USB access, possibly even from shell scripts 13:02:41 BTW, I think HID uses interrupt transfers 13:03:14 don't know about Windows USB development though 13:04:56 ok, but you are accessing the endpoints without higher protocols, so you can't use it e.g. from Windows or Mac without implementing other drivers, because I don't think that you have direct USB access to the endpoints 13:06:39 if you implement a mass storage device or a VCOM device, you can concentrate on the device driver delopment and it just works with every host controller OS 13:12:39 interrupt transfers should give you 1 KHz, with 64 bytes per ms. Do you need more for for accelerometer telemetry? Usually accelerometers like from Analog Devices doesn't measure more than 100 Hz or so 13:17:06 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:21:52 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:34:16 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 13:34:44 ours are custom built, going for 2000 Hz 13:34:51 on six axes 13:35:08 because things happen fast on a rocket :) 13:36:08 Yah think? 13:40:29 ok, then you need the faster USB transfer modes. Custom built, 2000 Hz accelerometers, sounds expensive :-) 13:41:25 nope, but fun to design. Got a lot of EE geeks on the team 13:45:29 and you don't use Forth on the Olimex boards? It's really fun to attach a serial port and developing on the board in Forth, peeking and poking at memory locations, writing traces etc. 13:47:27 --- part: kardinal left #forth 14:00:37 --- join: segher__ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-182-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:10:01 --- quit: AndyArmstrong (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 14:10:01 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:10:02 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 14:10:18 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:15:53 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:32:32 --- join: AndyArmstrong (n=andy@82.152.157.85) joined #forth 15:00:10 --- quit: iano (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:00:10 --- quit: slava (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:00:10 --- quit: Shain (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:00:22 --- join: Shain (i=steve@75.31.193.165) joined #forth 15:04:33 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:09:51 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:09:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 15:29:21 --- quit: TreyB_ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:21 --- quit: warpzero (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:22 --- quit: vatic (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:22 --- quit: timlarson (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:22 --- quit: zirpu (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:22 --- quit: uiuiuiu (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:29:22 --- join: zirpu_ (n=zirpu@nefud.org) joined #forth 15:29:22 --- join: warp0x00 (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth 15:29:22 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 15:29:28 --- join: uiuiuiu (n=ian@81.169.184.117) joined #forth 15:29:47 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 15:33:23 --- quit: Quartus () 15:44:55 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:44:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 16:35:45 Hi. 16:38:20 HIES 16:39:04 hi 16:44:22 --- join: tgunr_ (n=davec@70-41-219-171.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 16:45:35 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:47:53 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-219-171.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 16:49:22 --- quit: tgunr_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:26:55 http://09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63.com/ lol 17:28:17 this has been blown out of proportion. 17:28:25 first, that key will not be used for future titles, so it's back to square one 17:28:45 second, this number is not even enough to decrypt all the data on an HD-DVD. 17:28:56 Well, there were some takedown requests based on that number, and I think that's the seed of the thing. 17:29:13 the only people who were sent takedown notices published information on using this key to decrypt the Volume-ID. they didn't just publish the number. 17:29:52 i hate the MPAA/RIAA as much as anybody else, but spreading this freaking Volume-ID key around the net doesn't help anybody defeat the DMCA 17:29:53 Yeah, but it's nerd-trendy to play at rebelling against the evil overlords. 17:30:12 yeah. 17:30:12 Note very few actually boycott the products, they just demand that they be free. 17:51:36 slava: in at least one case, a takedown notice was sent to some guy who (perhaps intentionally) had a typo in the number 17:54:21 which begs the question: is a non-working circumvention method a circumvention method? 17:58:27 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 18:22:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 18:53:48 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=skquinn@adsl-75-59-253-133.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 18:54:06 what's up folks 18:54:13 writing some docs 18:54:58 yeah I am finally, somehow, starting to get rather good at writing Forth 18:56:02 I'm writing a one-variable statistics package, right now there is no interactive mode 18:56:20 everything has to be done through the Forth interpreter 18:57:30 and I depend on a third-party sort routine, which I'm not sure I can legally include if I want to license under the GPL (which I do) 18:59:11 I'm at 517 lines of code for the main package and counting, 185 for the interactive portion which I've just now started on 18:59:32 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:59:45 Why are you using Forth? 19:00:05 why shouldn't he be / 19:00:31 I didn't say he shouldn't be. 19:00:58 madgarden: because I'm trying to learn it, and it's the only language I feel really confident programming in right now 19:01:12 DocPlatypus, sounds cool. :) 19:01:32 I'm assuming this is your own project, not for a customer? 19:02:15 madgarden: if you have a need for it and want to send me a few bucks to support development that'd be swell, but right now it's a hobby project 19:02:31 Hehe. 19:03:00 Yea, I'm just asking since I do some commercial "Forth" work and have had a lot of resistance from my boss in the past. 19:03:02 I mean, this kind of thing probably exists already somewhere 19:03:37 Not too familiar with statistics packages myself, so I couldn't say. 19:03:49 maybe it doesn't exist as the user friendly "just type in numbers, hit a button, and get your 75th percentile" this will hopefully become 19:07:11 does there already exist a set of words for ANSI terminal support? 19:07:20 besides the built-in at-xy 19:08:06 Hmm, good question. 19:08:35 guess I can write my own if needed 19:14:14 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 19:19:33 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@70.102.202.174) joined #forth 21:59:53 --- join: i-- (n=cccc@201.80.232.117) joined #forth 22:35:26 --- quit: segher__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:58:48 --- quit: i-- () 22:59:38 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 23:03:18 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 23:07:17 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-182-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.05.04