00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.04.16 00:00:23 --- quit: skas_wk ("Leaving") 00:00:34 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-9f73f67fce3e817a) joined #forth 00:03:34 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 01:15:24 --- quit: Baughn (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:16:05 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@084202037191.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 01:26:49 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 01:28:12 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-082800abc8b4596f) joined #forth 02:18:27 --- join: ASau (n=user@ggsn3inet6.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 02:30:55 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 02:31:54 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-ddb2ceb60116768e) joined #forth 02:43:15 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:04:22 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 05:22:24 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 05:23:42 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e055adf863f83acd) joined #forth 05:36:51 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:56:55 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:05:24 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@fosforo.k8.com.br) joined #forth 06:20:58 --- quit: Shain (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:48:14 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-194-208.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:53:47 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 06:55:39 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:58:03 o_O 07:04:39 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 07:12:39 --- nick: crest_ -> Crest 07:25:36 hi 07:35:40 --- part: edrx left #forth 07:44:02 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:44:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:09:28 --- join: Shain (i=steve@adsl-75-30-114-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 08:20:41 --- quit: segher_ (Remote closed the connection) 08:23:13 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 08:31:16 hey jw 08:48:27 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:01:28 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:01:50 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:02:52 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:03:17 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:05:46 --- join: timlarson___ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:06:18 --- quit: timlarson_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:23:45 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:33:23 hi 09:43:30 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-109-009.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:51:45 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:51:59 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 10:09:26 what up? 10:42:05 just saw an old friend that I used to see at homeschooler weekend retreans in my highschool years 10:42:15 haven't seen her for maybe 7 years 10:42:37 now I'm off to see some friends that I've seen more recently 10:45:07 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 11:05:14 enjoy! 11:30:08 --- join: ASau (n=user@ggsn3inet2.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 11:30:49 Dobryj vecher! 12:30:03 --- quit: Quartus__ ("used jmIrc") 12:30:16 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 12:54:04 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=skquinn@adsl-75-40-32-192.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 13:01:53 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 13:03:17 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 13:35:00 --- quit: timlarson___ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:35:13 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@fosforo.k8.com.br) joined #forth 14:01:34 Buenas noches! 15:01:18 hi ASau 15:10:20 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489e0e4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:15:05 Any news? 15:15:13 news? 15:15:28 No news? 15:17:04 are you asking the channel or edrx ? 15:17:22 I guess everyone 15:17:44 well, i'm trying to resolve a bug that manifests itself when i have a heap > 1.2gb 15:18:29 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:28:24 --- quit: Quartus__ ("jmIrc destroyed by the OS") 15:28:40 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 15:44:36 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 15:45:46 opinions on the various types of "if" and "if else" structures? 15:45:58 such as the flag (rather than stack) based, 15:46:12 i never used a forth with a flag stack 15:46:16 and destructive verus non-destructive 15:46:24 factor has destructive and non-destructive if 15:46:33 i like that 15:46:59 some (all?) colorforth uses a non-destructive flag 'register' based design 15:47:13 what is your syntax for each? 15:47:31 in factor, conditionals are ordinary words that take code blocks from the stack 15:47:37 i use a * suffix to denote non-destructiveness 15:47:37 --- part: edrx left #forth 15:48:18 you did catch that flag is in a register rather than in a stack, right? 15:48:41 to the programmer, booleans are values on the stack 15:48:48 the compiler performs various optimizations which are transparent to the programmer 15:49:06 iiuc, they do a comparison and the result goes both in a flag register and as an integer on the stack...you can then drop the integer if you wish and still do your if. 15:49:16 (in colorforth) 15:55:08 I prefer that boolean values be kept on the stack, so that conditionals take their arguments from the stack just like other Forth words, no need for a second channel. I also make use of boolean masking. 15:55:22 Put another way, I see no value in a flag register or flag stack. 16:07:37 what about destructive versus not versus having both available? 16:07:58 Confusing. Destructive is fine. If you need non-destructive, there's DUP. 16:09:29 are you saying having both is confusing or that non-destructive is confusing? 16:10:44 Both, really. Having both means having to sort out which you're looking at; having non-destructive means having to deliberately destroy the conditional when you're done, when the vast majority of the time you want it immediately destroyed. 16:11:25 slava, do you find you use the non-destructive version very often? 16:11:36 yes 16:12:12 in factor, anything that is not a boolean false is true, so often you use non-destructive conditionals to test if some object has been created, and if so, you do something with it. 16:12:14 do you find it clearer than "dup if" 16:12:28 ah 16:12:28 He's talking about factor, not Forth, so. 16:12:33 well, in factor, dup [ A ] [ drop B ] if == [ A ] [ B ] if* 16:12:40 the false branch drops the conditonal, the true branch retains it. 16:26:53 It looks like there's more need in other composite conditionals, 16:27:00 like ?dup-if or such. 16:27:29 Why is ?dup-if preferable to ?dup if 16:27:48 Optimisation. 16:27:55 Optimization is for optimizers. 16:29:58 Of course I know that you can do it automatically, 16:30:02 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 16:30:03 And should. 16:30:16 but having such idioms helps optimizer. 16:30:47 Rubbish. It means you've bound yourself to a set of compound primitives. 16:31:47 No. 16:32:50 You just use compound conditional instead of reinventing 16:32:51 something harder to optimise. 16:33:36 Also I find useful "short-circuit" analogues, like "andif". 16:33:53 They actually save space. 16:33:56 That's ridiculous. If you can write a primitive ?dup-if that generates a better sequence than can ?dup if then direct that improvement into your optimizer. 16:34:31 It's not meant for optimiser, it's meant for human. 16:35:04 Having such compound conditional stimulates using more 16:35:05 optimisable code. 16:35:25 Look, I'm not going to have another one of these pointless arguments where you run around in a little circle finding something to misunderstand about my every response. 16:36:39 Having such "?dup-if" prevents inventing hidden one in "dup if ... drop/nip ...". 16:36:50 I recognize the short circuit and from C...could you give an example of the forth syntax using it? 16:38:20 I use "andif" for effective "dup if drop" and "orelse" for "dup 0= if drop". 16:43:02 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:13:17 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.11.119) joined #forth 17:19:11 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 17:21:41 --- join: skas_wk (n=skas@121.127.198.32) joined #forth 17:48:51 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:01:48 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:02:54 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489e0e4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 19:04:40 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A7AA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:19:46 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:30:21 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:36:37 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:51:24 --- quit: nighty^ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 22:02:06 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 22:32:48 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.04.16