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(Connection timed out)) 07:35:06 --- quit: yumehito (Remote closed the connection) 07:35:12 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 07:41:51 --- nick: brx` -> brx 07:42:22 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 07:50:38 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:59:49 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-183-175.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:13:32 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-183-175.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:24:30 --- join: saon (n=saon@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth 08:24:50 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:41:39 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:42:23 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 08:43:42 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A79D9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 08:52:23 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:01:26 --- kick: Quartus__ was kicked by Quartus (Quartus) 09:01:52 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a79852.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 09:12:10 --- join: Quartus___ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 09:12:48 hey 09:13:51 what's the news of the world? 09:16:17 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57A794AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 09:16:43 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:24:34 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:26:35 slow day :) 09:29:56 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 09:31:53 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a79446.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 09:42:55 --- quit: yumehito (Connection timed out) 09:47:16 --- quit: brx`` (Connection timed out) 09:55:14 No company will give , nor sell software . 09:55:15 Prog will be in the Flash , when you buy the 09:55:15 mcu . 09:55:15 Deny that , Liberal job creationists ! 09:57:16 what's an mcu? 09:58:17 again, Slava, remove the touch of practicalness from the Factor's design, please! 09:58:30 ha 09:58:38 stop wasting code 09:59:18 who's Lacroimosa, and when was his brain injury sustained? 09:59:34 quartus__: MCU = ucontroller 09:59:42 i would dream and sex perform with my computer 09:59:53 of course, werty probably means something else :-) 10:00:26 ok, let's put it like this: Let's heal the [ hello , world ] a bit. 10:01:02 that's good. I'm looking forward to my next Pentium having Quake on-chip. 10:02:11 and Word, and a couple of Linux distros. 10:02:50 he posted on the mailing list, saying Factor was the best thing in his world of magic and elves, except it needs to be its own OS, instead of running on top of existing OSes 10:02:58 ... A choice of email clients, maybe a browser or two. 10:03:14 slava, ah. A loon. 10:03:16 Quartus: you liberal job creationist 10:03:43 Oui, I am zat ting 10:04:19 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A78F6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:05:49 what would he have you do to hello world? 10:06:13 GNU helloworld includes a MUA :-) 10:07:23 make it a touch less practical, perhaps 10:07:44 Made-Up Acronym? 10:13:11 --- quit: brx (Success) 10:14:07 how do you respond to someone that bizarre? 10:17:53 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 10:18:51 quartus: MUA = "email client" 10:19:10 quartus: you _don't_ reply, that's how 10:19:52 prudent 10:20:56 segher, that'd be EC :) 10:28:23 quartus: the "real name" for such a thing is "mail user agent" 10:36:49 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 10:37:29 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A7A67D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:43:58 --- quit: Quartus___ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:52:59 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:53:52 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a78e53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:58:35 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57A785A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:59:21 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@208.74.136.138) joined #forth 11:01:48 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:13:21 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57a785e3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:14:15 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:16:34 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A7AF23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:20:03 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:31:16 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:00:04 --- quit: yumehito_ (Connection timed out) 12:02:47 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 12:06:03 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A786F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:11:13 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.13.19) joined #forth 12:13:40 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:15:52 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 12:19:07 --- join: base_16 (n=base_16@c-67-161-37-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:20:02 --- quit: ygrek () 12:27:00 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:47:48 --- nick: yumehito_ -> yumehito 12:51:48 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 13:02:22 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:04:48 --- quit: yumehito (Connection timed out) 13:07:28 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 13:14:14 --- quit: edrx ("rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.0.93.1") 13:14:38 --- quit: yumehito (Remote closed the connection) 13:18:02 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:21:02 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 13:29:27 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:29:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 13:41:40 --- quit: base_16 (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:41:40 --- quit: brx (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:41:40 --- quit: nighty^ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:41:40 --- quit: arke (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:42:56 --- join: arke (n=f2@bespin.org) joined #forth 13:42:56 --- join: base_16 (n=base_16@c-67-161-37-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:42:56 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A786F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:42:56 --- join: nighty^ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 13:42:56 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o arke 14:02:00 --- join: Bushmills (n=l@A-18-224.cust.iol.ie) joined #forth 14:02:28 'morning 14:02:47 hey 14:27:10 --- quit: slava () 14:30:50 --- quit: Quartus () 14:47:42 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:10:15 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489BCE8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 15:10:45 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:10:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 15:17:56 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:18:11 --- nick: crest_ -> Crest 15:21:43 --- join: ASau (n=user@iggsn1inet2.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 15:26:29 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.11.67) joined #forth 15:27:32 Good evening, edrx. 15:27:37 Good evening, all. 15:30:58 --- quit: Quartus () 15:32:44 hi ASau 15:33:54 Any news? 15:35:47 not sure - I've been working on blogme, and now most of my site is generated by it... and I got a job at a place that seems to be ok 15:38:49 my previous job looked bad since the beginning 15:39:43 That's good. 15:39:57 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 15:39:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 15:40:02 I have a kind of blog in portuguese and I after the meeting in which it was decided that I would be transferred to that position I posted a link to this: http://www.spress.de/beatland/reader/snyder/poem4.htm 15:40:18 I've got job at bank, and now I have to move to other place. 15:40:26 s/and I after/and a bit after/ 15:40:49 where are you now, and where are you moving to? 15:41:37 Now I'm in Podolsk, half an hour to the South from Moscow by train. 15:42:54 I have to rent living somewhere in northern or northwestern 15:42:55 Moscow now, or at least in Moscow, since it'll take too long to 15:42:55 go there. 15:43:47 Waisting more than 3 hours a day in trains is too much. 15:43:49 wher are you from? my memory is crap but iirc you're from india 15:43:54 yeah 15:44:01 Russia. 15:44:06 sorry 15:44:24 Use /whois. 15:44:40 It's valuable source of information. 15:44:41 I saw the .ru but I had to check out 15:45:05 Did you think he was talking about Moscow, India? 15:45:17 is there a moscow, india? :) 15:45:24 ...no. 15:45:34 I've never heard about another Moscow in India. 15:45:51 he could be an indian who had moved to moscow for work reasons 15:45:59 This being the point. 15:46:17 It does not seem in Indian character to reuse foreign names. 15:46:30 I am Russian. 15:47:23 Though I'm from South-Eastern Russia, not from Central/Middle. 15:48:28 my father is from romenia, but he speaks russian 15:48:52 Romania? 15:49:54 It's quite possible, that he speaks Russian. 15:50:25 yep 15:51:29 It's sad I don't know Portuguese, nor Spanish, nor even French. 15:52:08 I'd like to read Pessoa in original language, but I can't. 15:52:55 ah, you know him 15:53:22 in which language did you read it? 15:53:52 I could only get it in English from Project Gutenberg. 15:54:25 there is a moscow, netherlands 15:54:31 very small village :-) 15:54:44 there's certainly some moscows in the US 15:54:57 yah 15:55:04 lots of amsterdams, too 15:55:31 Well, 15 mln inhabitants is not too many for village, 15:55:47 if they're spread at vast space. 15:56:28 It seems like bad English. 15:57:01 That's one of bad points in Internet, 15:57:34 you never get example of good, literate language/speech. 15:58:01 oh that's not really true 15:58:21 It's too rare. 15:58:27 on irc, you get more like "spoken" language, sure 15:58:37 but not all of it is bad language 15:58:38 Indeed. It's not. Casual chat is no place to look for such a thing, but you've already said you have Project Gutenberg, so you might start there. 15:59:40 Even in "spoken" language you have the same, 16:00:20 of course you speak less strict language, but the latter 16:00:21 retains its rules in most part. 16:01:00 For instance, you can look at broken "werty" language, 16:01:26 that's not language. that's some sekr1t code :-) 16:01:30 or for Russians or other Slavs newcomers. 16:01:39 Werty is an idiot. Looking to him to learn anything, English included, is a mistake. 16:02:26 Werty is an idiot. 16:02:33 Yes. 16:02:49 There're many idiots around, but not all of them speak that bad. 16:02:51 werty's posts could be used a a damn good random generator 16:03:20 My opinion differs. 16:03:25 I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There are always idiots around; that does not mean there isn't perfectly adequate examples of English in abundance. 16:05:28 Right. 16:05:47 so "you never get example of good, literate language/speech" is bogus. 16:06:12 Maybe I'm wrong bringing "werty" as an example. 16:06:20 you get plenty of small mistakes and a lot of bad style, of course 16:06:34 You can bring up dozens of bad writers, it still doesn't make your point. 16:06:50 yah 16:07:50 Alright, it is difficult to me to fix my views in English words. 16:09:11 I don't think that I can try doing it today. 16:10:12 Or maybe not. 16:10:15 Well. 16:10:42 You say "you get plenty of small mistakes and a lot of bad style". 16:10:52 Alright, I do get. 16:11:41 But the lack of examples of good (or good enough) style, 16:11:42 nobody can start speaking better. 16:11:44 but does that matter? it's the difference between theory and practice, at some level anyway 16:12:01 you need to *practise* to get better 16:12:16 and something like irc is ideal for that, really 16:12:20 If you want to improve your English, there is a huge amount of ESL material on the web, and gigabytes of classing English literature to read. 16:12:25 And it comes even worse: even those who could speak good, 16:12:26 start speaking worse. 16:12:31 classic, rather 16:12:43 i know that irc+netnews+mail is how i got better at english 16:12:51 What's "ESL"? 16:12:59 English as a Second Language 16:13:24 Hmm. 16:13:36 That may be good idea. 16:13:41 Thanks! 16:13:50 Really good idea. 16:15:28 The only objection is classic literature, be it English or 16:15:29 Russian, does not give example of the language. 16:15:44 Eh? 16:15:49 so read more modern literature 16:15:54 It is old, outdated language, classic literature is written into. 16:16:03 ...in. 16:16:08 Not so old and outdated that you can't learn from it. 16:16:17 I'm not suggesting you study Chaucer and Shakespeare. 16:16:35 Say, Dickens and onward. 16:16:55 Austin is too old too, in my opinion. 16:17:24 I disagree, but no matter; Gutenberg has plenty of more modern works. 16:17:55 Maybe, maybe. 16:17:56 and so does your local library, i'm sure 16:18:14 I'm not an expert in English language history. 16:18:44 But it seemed to me like I was reading German sometimes. 16:20:06 The two languages are somewhat similar. 16:21:05 Spelling! I'm talking about Jane Austen. 16:21:16 I guessed. 16:21:44 Good word "somewhat". 16:22:36 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A7B588.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:22:46 "Somewhat" can express everything from having common roots 16:22:48 up to minor divergence. 16:22:48 16:23:38 You can say Russian and Czeck are "somewhat" similar too, 16:24:01 though they differ to significant extent. 16:25:06 English and German descended from the same language. 16:26:08 So did Russian and Czech. 16:26:13 quartus: yeah, both from dutch 16:26:24 dutch! No, proto-germanic 16:26:34 ...which is closer to dutch than to german 16:26:43 but sure, not from modern dutch :-) 16:27:02 old dutch is also descended from proto-germanic 16:27:06 ...proto-slavic. 16:27:10 --- quit: edrx (No route to host) 16:27:14 --- nick: gordonjc1 -> gordonjcp 16:27:53 It'd been too many centuries ago. 16:28:01 Nobody remembers for sure. 16:28:28 Fortunately it doesn't depend on anyone's particular memory. 16:29:00 Someones tell that Baltic and Slavic languages were the same those times. 16:29:34 Now, you can even tell, that Lithuanian and Russian are somewhat similar. 16:31:09 Just for comparison: "utro" (Rus.) = "jitro" (Cz.) = "ritas" (Lith.). 16:31:28 "Dobroe" = "dobre" = "labas". :) 16:33:09 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57a79a24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:34:37 Does anyone remember whether Laxen&Perry F83 is public domain or not? 16:35:44 Actually, I hate all this IP stuff. 16:36:41 You are crazy about claiming any kind of property on ideas or words. 16:37:29 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:38:04 Both, Amiricans and West-Europeans. 16:38:12 ...Americans... 16:40:06 copyright has nothing to do with property 16:40:28 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:41:07 copyright protects creative expression: whoever did the act of creating smth gets to benefit from it, not others 16:42:07 the created thing becomes property of everyone otherwise; "fair use" 16:42:46 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A7877E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:43:31 --- quit: base_16 (" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") 16:44:01 I never studied English for lawyers. 16:44:50 russia (and almost all other countries) have basically the same copyright rules 16:44:53 But I studied law and know pretty well, that copyright is property. 16:45:21 If it were not, you could not pass it to others. 16:46:13 having a copytight in something can be viewed at as property, sure 16:46:26 For instance, you never could be required to sign NDA. 16:46:28 the copyrighted work itself is *not* your property though 16:46:44 you can never be required to sign an NDA no matter what 16:47:03 you just don't get to see whatever that NDA is for :-) 16:47:11 Thanks Heaven, NDA is not in the law here. 16:47:26 I can even sign it with no consequences. 16:47:31 it's not here, either 16:47:43 i think you're mistaken 16:47:51 an NDA is just a specific contract 16:48:01 and i'm pretty sure you have contracts in russia 16:48:33 Well, you're right. 16:49:22 Anyway, the copyright could not be passed to your employer. 16:49:37 Any way, if it were not property. 16:52:39 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7971c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:55:22 Copyright is the right to copy. It has nothing to do with property. 16:56:06 It has everything with property. 16:56:25 You can pass it for money or goods. 16:56:52 Property is not the only thing that can be sold. 16:56:54 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 16:58:03 What is? 16:58:18 --- quit: brx`` (Connection timed out) 16:58:19 what is what? 16:58:50 What is another thing that can be sold except property? 16:58:59 Well, and labour. 16:59:26 Services. Access. Information. 16:59:56 --- quit: brx (Connection timed out) 17:00:44 Services and information are the kind of labour. 17:01:16 Access is the kind of copyright. 17:01:16 I.e. property. 17:01:59 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A798BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:03:03 The only right of author that has nothing with property is the right of recognition. 17:03:08 no, but I doubt you are interested in properly understanding it. If you are, read the wikipedia article on copyright, it'll get you started. 17:03:58 Wikipedia is very weird source. 17:04:58 First, it's multilingual. 17:06:09 In connection with community support it results in 17:06:10 differences between various translations. 17:06:29 Second, it tries to be "politically correct" and "neutral". 17:07:04 Well, what if I think that even talking about "copyright" 17:07:05 is a crime? 17:07:27 ASau: options 17:07:47 From this point of view, 17:07:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright is not neutral. 17:07:49 as fascinating as 'Everything is crap, by ASau' is, you won't learn if you don't read. Find a source you consider appropriate. 17:08:08 I have read that source. 17:08:29 It's the federal law on author's rights. 17:08:56 It clearly states that copyright is property. 17:09:15 The same is written in all books on civil law. 17:09:39 What else? 17:10:42 I can bring examples of conceptual errors in natural science Wikipedia articles. 17:11:34 I'm not interested. 17:12:20 The law is much worse in this sense, since it is closely 17:12:21 connected to customs and history of a particular state. 17:13:27 Even when this state recognizes one or another international convention. 17:15:01 If you want to know, I've read that spoken article. 17:15:35 There's nothing interesting except of history of this law, 17:16:12 I've read the law before it. 17:17:16 --- quit: brx` (Connection timed out) 17:19:40 you've fundamentally failed to understand it. Copyright is has nothing to do with 'claiming property on ideas or words'. 17:22:06 When I cite several pages, I risk breaking your beloved "fair use" rule. 17:22:48 ok. I was right, you're determined to remain ignorant. 17:22:50 Consider you hold copyright on some big program. 17:23:30 Now, I'm going to cite part of your program in my one. 17:24:12 Citing even 1% of your code brings me to court by your law. 17:24:38 If it is not "property", then what is it? 17:25:15 it's copyright. 17:25:42 You told above about "fair use". 17:25:52 I did not. 17:25:59 I don't republish your work with minor changes. 17:26:21 I use only minor parts. 17:27:08 If they are not your property, then what harm do I cause, 17:27:09 that it's necessary to start a trial? 17:28:09 Your reputation remains at the same level, if I don't refer to your work. 17:28:17 I'm sorry, you are completely misinformed about this. I don't have the patience to try to educate you. 17:28:35 Alright. 17:28:41 Have you studied law? 17:31:10 Before you can educate me, you have to study law yourself. 17:38:53 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A793DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:46:37 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:04:33 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A7858D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:19:43 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:52:04 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@65.125.86.66) joined #forth 18:52:10 hi.... anybody live here/ 18:52:14 ? lol 18:52:32 --- quit: Quartus__ ("used jmIrc") 18:53:04 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 18:53:56 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57A7821C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:59:04 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 19:00:15 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:02:00 --- quit: brx (Success) 19:27:05 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A7B572.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:35:50 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-219-171.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 19:41:40 --- join: brx`` (n=brx@p57A7B1D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:42:35 --- quit: brx` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:49:12 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:56:57 --- quit: Bushmills (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:01:17 --- join: brx (n=brx@p57A79D22.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:14:09 --- join: brx` (n=brx@p57a7c4e2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:17:20 --- quit: brx`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:22:25 --- quit: brx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:52:05 --- join: DocPlatypus (n=skquinn@adsl-75-59-255-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 22:53:17 anyone alive? I have run across a really bizarre problem 22:58:06 ok, that fixes it, maybe it's not a "proper" fix but at least it worked 23:26:50 --- quit: DocPlatypus ("Leaving") 23:55:02 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekepro@88.204.194.97) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.04.14