00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.03.22 00:43:47 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 00:54:57 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-372dc1eeae1724a2) joined #forth 00:55:22 --- quit: tgunr () 01:07:27 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 01:17:09 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 01:17:29 --- part: zpg left #forth 01:40:31 --- quit: azekeprofit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:57:00 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-c292e1e387c82376) joined #forth 01:57:17 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (n=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-146-185.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 02:15:30 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 02:15:43 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:15:57 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 02:18:31 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 02:18:48 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:18:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 02:28:56 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 02:29:14 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:29:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 03:33:51 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 03:34:09 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 03:34:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 03:48:13 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.13.97) joined #forth 03:57:54 --- quit: ygrek_ (Remote closed the connection) 03:58:03 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-5fb7e9977be5001c) joined #forth 04:02:12 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 04:02:29 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 04:02:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 04:11:35 --- part: edrx left #forth 04:18:09 --- nick: ygrek_ -> ygrek 04:32:51 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 04:33:09 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 04:33:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 04:47:53 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 04:48:13 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 04:48:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 04:50:18 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:50:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 05:06:18 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 05:13:10 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 05:13:50 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-b0744726d0c4cf35) joined #forth 05:32:46 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 05:32:58 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:32:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 05:43:43 --- quit: ecraven ("brb") 05:44:49 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 06:04:22 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 06:04:39 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:04:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 06:26:52 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 06:27:09 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:27:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 06:53:32 Does anyone here know of any Forth codebase which demonstrates a style of coding heavily dependent on XT manipulation, perhaps featuring disposable runtime word generation? 06:57:37 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 07:00:39 I don't, no. 07:03:11 The reason I ask is because I write a good chunk of code in Scheme, and as far as I can tell, there's no reason why the same style of coding can't be done in Forth. 07:03:22 Whether that's a good idea or not, of course, is something else entirely. 07:06:27 I can only think of issues with dictionaries, for difficulty that you'd have. 07:06:54 ayrnieu, how do you mean? 07:08:28 gnomon - I mean, as you continue with that style of programming I expect that you'll find that you'll have the most difficulty with Forth's dictionaries. 07:09:00 if you want to start thinking about that, you can start on an obvious issue: Scheme garbage-collects its anonymous functions. 07:09:41 That was the very first thing that came to mind, yes. 07:10:31 One of the main reasons why garbage collection is important in Scheme is because of closure generation, though, rather than throwaway lambdas. 07:11:23 garbage collection itself is not the issue, and even closures aren't -- that Forth keeps anonymous words in a dictionary is. 07:11:32 I could imagine a lot of thrashing of the "anonymous" dictionary, but it would, I think, be very interesting to have some code to profile first. 07:12:41 Have you looked at Joy? 07:13:28 TreyB, I've implemented two Joylikes, and I actively track Factor development. 07:13:56 I'm more interested in seeing what can be done with minimally-altered "traditional" Forth in this particular case, though. 07:14:05 Joy, Factor, Rebol, UserRPL, probably even postscript. 07:14:18 ayrnieu, you took the words right out of my mouth. 07:14:23 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?isnumber=34750&arnumber=1659586&count=88&index=73 07:14:29 gnomon - you can do quite a lot, and more easily than you might think. Just start :-) 07:14:34 The only one in that list that I haven't tried for a couple of months is UserRPL. 07:14:36 I saw this article, but I don't have an IEEE membership. 07:14:56 ayrnieu, oh, I intend to. I just have this bad habit of surveying the literature first ;) 07:14:56 Somewhere around here I have a PDF relating to this topic. 07:15:00 * TreyB hunts for it... 07:15:29 gnomon - anyway, I wrote some small XT-abusing code a while ago in response to questions in this channel; I'll share it. 07:15:43 ayrnieu, thank you! What was the gist of the question? 07:17:01 * gnomon sighs 07:17:26 I wish I had JFAR back issues, or at least had easy access to them. TreyB, is there any chance that you've got a copy of that PDF lying around anywhere? 07:17:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/38477 , http://paste.lisp.org/display/38478 07:18:36 ayrnieu, gratefully snarfing! Thanks again! 07:20:03 --- nick: Raystm2- -> Raystm2 07:20:33 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 07:20:49 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:20:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 07:23:56 I can't find the PDF I thought I had. 07:25:58 ayrnieu, that second chunk of code is the implementation of Paul Graham's now-infamous accumulator generator challenge, innit? 07:26:48 I thought so, yes. 07:27:22 Shinee thought differently? 07:27:23 Graham rejected my submission at the time, claiming religious reasons and also that it used FSL bignums. 07:27:49 no, I just remember thinking so. You can see Shine's scheme code in the commented URL 07:28:54 Sorry - religious reasons? 07:32:28 sorry, I don't have the email. 07:34:35 Heck, I'm sorry for bugging you about all this. 07:35:41 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth2006/papers/lynas.pdf 07:35:53 Adding Lambda expressions to Forth 07:36:09 And also: http://www.cat-language.com/typing_stacks.pdf 07:37:13 gnomon: If you haven't seen the lynas.pdf, you'll want to read it. 07:37:18 TreyB, good call on the first one - I just recently read it. It was interesting, but demonstrated a method rather than a codebase. 07:38:11 Yeah, I don't expect to find any substantial code base outside of those folks trying things in the papers. 07:39:02 Hm. 07:39:13 Thank you very much for the links 07:39:14 . 07:39:20 (wow, that last one is really recent!) 07:39:56 yes, Cat I omitted as I haven't seen an implementation. 07:41:59 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 07:44:27 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-1e16c6052afb99a9) joined #forth 07:49:33 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 07:49:50 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:49:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 07:49:52 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 07:54:03 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-68622d41dae15c8f) joined #forth 08:05:47 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 08:06:08 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined 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(Connection timed out)) 13:56:02 --- quit: tgunr (Remote closed the connection) 14:00:01 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Should have paid the bill.") 14:01:51 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:03:42 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 14:04:00 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 14:04:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 14:05:35 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 14:07:34 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-219-171.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 14:17:28 good evening 14:40:46 --- join: crest__ (n=crest@p5489f956.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:45:44 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 14:46:00 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 14:46:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 14:49:10 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489c340.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:56:29 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:04:22 --- quit: crest__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:29:30 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 15:29:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 15:30:26 hey 15:49:51 Hey! 15:49:58 how goes it, v-dawg? 15:53:17 I'm fine! Finally have some timwe to get back to my Forth preoccupations. Passed my Orals! And you? 15:53:23 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:53:23 timwe = time 15:58:49 time is scarce, but things are good. Congratulations on the orals. 16:00:26 Thanks! 16:01:11 Quartus: do you know anyone that's bought that Palm Wifi security upgrade? 16:01:35 vatic, no. Considering it? 16:03:10 Quartus: Well I got a bad Quartus crash right after a cancelled Wifi connect. Brings me back to that old problem. Wondering if the upgrade might implicitly replace/fix other issues... 16:03:20 Anything is possible. 16:04:33 I wish I could replicate the bizarre circumstances of that problem. 16:05:51 Quartus: I think I have more than one thing wrong with my TX: some weird stuff related to input and then this wifi thing... 16:06:00 Gypsy curse? 16:06:09 a real disincentive to use the device. :-( 16:06:28 Not sure how many gypsy's are in NYC... 16:06:31 Personally I consider the wifi to be a ridiculous feature. 16:09:52 Quartus: particularly if it's unusable. 16:10:15 Quartus: do you have a Treo that runs Quartus? 16:10:19 it eats battery at such a ferocious rate. 16:10:51 I don't own a Treo. 16:11:02 Lifedrive... 16:11:09 right. 16:16:07 Quartus: have you gotten any of the Linux OS stuff from Palm? 16:17:07 No; it's on my list. Looking forward to seeing what's coming. 16:17:44 Quartus: so your thought is to keep going with what they're developing? 16:18:08 If that seems the best thing to do. 16:18:40 Quartus: well certainly the Treo is a success. 16:18:58 a neat device. 16:21:19 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 16:32:31 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 16:32:48 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:32:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 16:33:18 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-93-115-18.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:40:44 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 17:41:00 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:41:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 17:47:48 hey ray 18:24:06 Hi Neal. 18:26:16 How goes it? 18:26:31 'sok. 18:26:36 yerself? 18:26:43 Same. 18:27:08 --- quit: timlarson ("Leaving") 18:28:55 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 18:31:38 800*bazillion pages on the web and each one a bore. :| 18:35:37 heh 18:36:15 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:06:35 --- quit: hyrax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:18:48 --- mode: Quartus set -b *!*virl@*.vie.surfer.at 19:23:43 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@200.217.105.28) joined #forth 19:38:39 --- join: hyrax_ (n=dschauer@cpe-76-187-163-5.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 19:38:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o hyrax_ 20:00:05 --- quit: gnomon (Remote closed the connection) 20:00:46 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM001692f57b56.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:09:05 --- quit: gnomon (Remote closed the connection) 20:09:31 --- join: gnomon (n=gnomon@CPE0050eb372bdb-CM001692f57b56.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:12:40 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 20:12:58 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:12:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 20:27:57 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 20:28:15 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:28:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 20:33:48 --- join: Jenn5 (n=Jenn5@74-132-206-111.dhcp.insightbb.com) joined #forth 20:41:11 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20:43:02 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 20:43:19 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:43:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 20:48:10 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 20:56:37 --- quit: timlarson ("Leaving") 21:00:42 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l37rb.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 21:08:35 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 21:17:40 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:25:23 --- quit: hyrax_ ("Konversation terminated!") 21:26:15 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 21:28:49 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:36:14 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:46:42 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 21:47:00 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 21:47:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 21:49:53 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:07:01 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 22:07:18 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 22:07:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 22:08:17 --- quit: slava () 22:37:17 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 22:37:34 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 22:37:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 22:46:44 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-c6fb3794d58115df) joined #forth 22:52:01 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 22:52:19 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 22:52:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 23:12:24 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-51695cffa826462b) joined #forth 23:12:25 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 23:49:55 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 23:50:09 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:50:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.03.22