00:02:02 --- log: started forth/07.03.12 00:02:02 --- quit: alexshendi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:11:41 --- quit: slava () 01:33:25 --- join: ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 01:48:53 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-145-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 02:08:39 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:09:02 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 02:10:39 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:21:35 --- quit: azekeprofit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:05:41 --- join: Raystm2- (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-33-176.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 03:20:40 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:33:26 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 04:43:23 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:43:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 04:45:44 --- quit: yumehito_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:47:53 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 06:00:44 --- quit: arke_ ("Konversation terminated!") 06:17:10 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 06:23:21 hey 06:25:13 hey hey 06:25:48 howdy Quartus_, how's mobility treating you today? 06:26:25 could be worse. How are you? 06:27:33 i missed a meeting due to oversleep and excused it on the basis of 'being held up' 06:27:44 Heh. 06:27:53 but did you say it, or express it? 06:28:18 i said it telephonically; but hang on, you can only say text. 06:28:21 hmm. 06:29:00 i guess the only logical conclusion is that my phone is in fact a blog 06:29:43 but does it support MIME? 06:30:12 not only that, it pays alimony 06:30:52 like screaming into the wind, talking to that guy 06:30:56 a large, hot wind 06:31:08 * zpg shrugs 06:31:48 'Express' being used as in 'the baby expressed flatulence' 06:36:15 Are you Forthing of late? 06:40:00 yes indeed. 06:40:22 nothing concrete just a variety of experiments. 06:40:25 yourself? 06:41:01 * ayrnieu : currently amused by http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/crenshaw/tiny.html 06:41:32 ah yes 06:41:40 i believe i brought that up a while back. 06:47:28 Do you know of any good tutorials that implement a forth? 06:47:59 i know there's one on the UK FIG site 06:48:07 haven't read it though. 06:51:57 --- join: azekeprofit (n=azekepro@82.200.251.167) joined #forth 07:21:06 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 07:36:35 still book writing. 07:48:11 how's that coming along? 07:51:00 steadily. 07:53:36 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 07:54:00 neat. 07:54:02 hi madgarden 07:54:09 (oops) madwork 07:54:26 what is this, an asylum? 07:55:19 Hello. And of course it is... forthers are crazy by nature. 07:58:19 over here, mad means angry, unless in the form of 'madness' 07:58:35 or 'madhouse' 08:01:56 Over here? 08:02:22 So zpg must be over there. 08:02:54 Where's there? 08:03:32 yup 08:04:07 but i'm over here. 08:07:06 uk 08:07:44 Quartus_: so the usage of 'mad' defaulting to 'angry' spans Canada too? 08:07:50 Quartus_: I thought that was mainly the USA 08:08:08 zpg, you can consider "mad" to be either mad or mad. Your preference. 08:08:31 madwork: heh, okay :) 08:09:01 In reality it's a shortened "Madrigal" which was my original Yahoo nickname when I was online in 1996. 08:09:35 I wanted an original nickname though, so I took the garden from Soundgarden (which I was listening to a fair bit at the time) and stuck them together. 08:10:11 well there you go! 08:10:18 Fascinating, I know. 08:10:21 :) 08:10:24 :) 08:10:36 So what's the story behing zpg then? Z80-propelled grenade? 08:11:31 what, my name can't be Zach Peter Gilmore now? 08:12:19 Well sure! It makes it that much easier for me to stalk you. 08:12:34 so you'd think. 08:12:58 My #2 son is named Zachary, incidentally. 08:14:05 that makes one of us 08:14:22 the nickname is actually a contraction of an old e-mail address. 08:15:02 Tricky. 08:15:11 i prefer the term slippery. 08:15:17 You've won this time, Gadget. 08:16:06 wowsers. 08:16:23 canada too 08:16:59 :) 08:18:33 even for "she's a mad woman"? 08:19:32 madman, madwoman, the compound forms are the same as there 08:20:02 ah ok, that makes more sense. 08:20:18 but they're not often used 08:20:26 You wouldn't catch us saying "By jingo, have you gone stark raving mad, old chap?" 08:20:56 well that's no fun. 08:21:11 i'm off to mingle with my fellow betweeded denizens 08:21:16 catch you chaps later. 08:21:48 Cheerio, sir. 08:21:57 Jolly good day to you! 08:22:09 and to you. 08:22:11 * zpg bows out 08:22:12 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 08:52:26 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:15:39 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 09:15:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 10:09:38 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p5489EC7B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:22:01 --- quit: ayrnieu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:04:42 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/ayrnieu) joined #forth 11:37:41 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:38:17 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 11:38:30 --- join: alexshendi (n=alexshen@dslb-088-065-225-053.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 11:55:29 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:28:02 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@200.217.105.72) joined #forth 12:40:37 --- join: ASau (n=user@iggsn1inet1.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 12:41:19 Guten Abend! 12:57:24 --- join: zpg (n=user@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk) joined #forth 12:57:26 hi chaps. 12:58:11 Hi, Folks 12:59:29 hi alexshendi 13:06:20 Good evening! 13:06:30 Any news? 13:06:50 I've found a file in my source tree with this: 13:07:23 10 iota dup ' ? for-each free-list 13:07:24 Just like in Lisp. 13:07:47 * Raystm2- greets the chat with great warmth and profound humility. 13:07:49 hi. 13:07:56 heh, hi Ray 13:08:13 Though with hand-done memory deallocation. 13:08:17 --- nick: Raystm2- -> Raystm2 13:08:23 Good evening, Ray. 13:09:08 Or morning, I don't remember your time zone. 13:09:26 +6 13:09:40 ??? 13:09:41 just after 3pm 13:09:53 doh!!!! -6 13:09:56 heh 13:10:00 Are you in India? 13:10:47 No but I play an Indian SYSop on the internet, apparently. 13:11:08 azekeprofit should be in +6. 13:11:21 * Raystm2 is in FORTH Wort Texas. 13:11:43 I'm the Forth WORT of Fort Worth. 13:12:44 Really, I'm between my desk and my chair. Where are you ASau? 13:13:25 Podol'sk. 13:13:45 Googling... 13:16:45 Ok, just north west of Kazakhstan. 13:17:29 You are about as midway across Russia as I am in US. 13:18:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podolsk 13:18:52 Thanks. :) 13:20:15 I've learned to use Wikipedia for such things. 13:20:56 As long as you have the geographic name directly mapped to Latin, 13:20:58 WHOA I was looking in the completely wrong place. 13:21:27 you have easy access to Wikipedia page. 13:22:19 "Podolsk" is not rare name for town in Russia. 13:22:46 Sorry, yes I do, but I meant that the map I pulled up originally pointed to a town just northwest of northcentral Kazakhstan 13:23:05 Well, you should add all the Russian lands, which include 13:23:06 Ukrain and Belarus. 13:23:22 Kazakhstan too. 13:23:35 Absolutely. I will remember this, hopefull, next time. :) 13:24:08 Don't even try unless you want to learn all this slavic toponimy. 13:24:11 --- join: mark4 (n=mark4@70.102.202.162) joined #forth 13:24:23 Good evening, Mark. 13:24:55 " 13:26:04 ditto. 13:26:56 * Raystm2 testing new IRC script settings, will return shortly. 13:26:59 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Should have paid the bill.") 13:27:01 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 13:27:30 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-33-176.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:28:37 Privet! 13:28:43 --- quit: Raystm2 (Remote closed the connection) 13:29:03 Dobryj nocher! 13:29:06 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-33-176.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 13:30:48 Somebody said "Kazakhstan" ?.. 13:31:10 * azekeprofit was distracted from reading Weber's Honour Harrignton saga.. 13:37:39 hi asau :) 13:37:44 and ray! 13:38:03 sorry. im at work "hardly working" 13:38:12 setting up an svn/samba server 13:39:44 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:39:52 --- nick: yumehito_ -> yumehito 13:41:38 Welcome back! 13:49:05 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 13:52:13 Dang it! this is not working like I would like. 13:53:20 I want my client to -- /msg nickserv IDENTIFY "password" -- on the way up and can't find the place to add that to the configuration. :( 13:53:44 which client? 13:54:18 Virc 2.0 (winDOwS) 13:54:25 ah 13:54:41 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 13:54:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 13:54:49 I tathi. 13:54:49 surely there's a setting in the options dialog for connection parameters? 13:55:03 but i best head; cheerio for now. 13:55:04 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.0.4 $Revision: 1.726.2.19 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 13:55:06 wait I no tathi, tathi are tathi hi tathi 13:55:21 hi Ray 13:56:02 yikes /me notices my computer is still on Standard time. 13:56:07 Must update. 13:58:22 Privet, tathi! 14:03:11 hi ASau 14:05:28 I'd better relogin. 14:09:01 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Should have paid the bill.") 14:19:49 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ggsn2inet4.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 14:20:57 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 14:27:20 --- quit: zpg (Remote closed the connection) 14:29:42 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:29:53 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:34:15 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:34:48 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 14:35:58 --- join: tgunr_ (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 14:35:59 --- quit: tgunr_ (Remote closed the connection) 14:36:18 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:36:33 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 14:54:09 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 15:03:14 --- quit: tgunr (Remote closed the connection) 15:03:56 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 15:04:25 --- quit: tgunr (Remote closed the connection) 15:05:07 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 15:32:10 --- join: lyn (n=chatzill@ip68-8-225-202.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 15:34:57 good evening 15:45:55 Hi 15:51:44 --- join: mark4_ (n=mark4@70.102.202.162) joined #forth 15:58:39 heh heh... 15:59:02 tiling in the gimp to create a 120 million pixel image took my computer a little while 15:59:11 maybe I should put that extra RAM back in... 15:59:21 --- quit: mark4 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:03:43 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489C960.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:07:01 let's hear it for swap space! 16:07:03 * JasonWoof cheers 16:07:33 perhaps next time I'll do 600dpi instead of 1200 16:07:50 I could probably have learned to do this in image magick faster than the gimp is doing it 16:08:14 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:15:14 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:18:00 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:20:49 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:32:15 --- nick: mark4_ -> I440r 16:32:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 17:07:05 --- quit: tgunr (Remote closed the connection) 17:20:41 --- join: arke (n=chris@pD9E06F4A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:20:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 17:29:40 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:29:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 17:47:51 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 17:47:52 hi 17:49:49 h 17:49:50 i 17:50:01 hey arke 17:50:06 :) 18:19:47 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 19:06:15 --- part: alexshendi left #forth 19:12:31 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:12:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 19:13:50 hey Q 19:13:58 hey hey 19:14:24 how's it? 19:14:32 tiring. You? 19:14:42 musical. 20:20:21 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-93-112-196.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:25:07 hey Ray 20:28:42 --- quit: Raystm2 ("Should have paid the bill.") 20:29:04 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-93-112-196.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:34:42 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 20:37:14 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:40:32 --- join: yumehito (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 21:25:12 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 21:26:58 --- quit: yumehito (Nick collision from services.) 21:28:24 --- nick: yumehito_ -> yumehito 22:11:52 --- quit: ayrnieu (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 22:11:52 --- quit: nighty-- (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 22:12:08 --- join: ayrnieu (n=julian@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/ayrnieu) joined #forth 22:12:08 --- join: nighty-- (n=nighty-@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 22:36:21 hi ayrnieu 23:01:58 hmm. i'm finding colorforth pretty slow under bochs 23:02:10 bummer 23:02:24 such a big loss 23:02:49 the qemu version seems to work okay here 23:03:44 * lyn googles qemu 23:04:09 neat 23:07:41 lyn ya it's slow in bochs for sure. 23:08:04 lyn have you tryed running any other versions? 23:08:30 nope...just got the latest, running it on a pretty wimply xp laptop 23:09:06 latest is not a really good term. Where did you get it, please? 23:09:26 lyn: Ray's the resident cf'er 23:10:05 oh, hang on 23:10:20 reason I ask is that there are a few versions of every version around, if that makes any sense :) 23:11:05 I try to keep up with them all, but alas I am only one bit. 23:11:12 beta-0.03 (2007-02-11 17:55) 23:11:35 huh? 23:11:48 newest one i've ever heard of. do you remember where you found it, please? 23:12:01 sourceforge, is that what you mean? 23:12:08 AH okay. 23:12:10 http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=183060&package_id=217211&release_id=485793 23:12:37 ya, i've not really kept up with that one yet as it's supposed to be formal and keep up with itself. 23:12:43 I do read it occasionally. 23:12:58 which do you keep up with? 23:13:08 and why? 23:14:02 John Comeau is the author of that version. he's in chat sometimes but he's definately in c.l.f and also the google Colorforth group. 23:14:20 prolly best to contact him thru the Google group. 23:14:35 lyn I use several versions. 23:15:20 most recent would be the 2005 version that was repaird ( as the release was corupt ?!?!?) by Joshua Grams ( tathi in these chats ) 23:15:57 didn't know bout google grp, thx. just found a group on nabble.com though, still active? 23:16:22 2005 is a Chuck Moore release ( shipped corupt by Jeff Fox ) 23:16:34 * Raystm2 nabbles real quick... 23:16:44 ah 23:16:58 http://www.nabble.com/ColorForth-f14104.html 23:17:38 last post 1.2.2007 23:17:47 ya okay no that's just a rip mirror of the mailing list 23:17:58 still active btw 23:18:10 the official mailing list is at.... getting link 23:19:29 http://www.strangegizmo.com/forth/ColorForth/ 23:19:36 i think :| 23:20:13 ya ya you can subscribe there on the right. 23:20:17 bookmarked it! 23:20:24 cool. 23:20:53 we have chats as well as some forthers are really hard to convince that colorforth has any redeaming qualities at all. 23:20:55 :) 23:21:13 really? seems dreamy to me 23:21:16 #c4th and #c4th-ot ( off topic ) 23:21:42 you might have trouble with c4th if you try to do 3d graphics, xml parsing, or http. :-) 23:22:22 #c4th is publically logged by JasonWoof and is tipically reserved for the topic only. anything goes on -ot 23:23:02 Ya, that's right slava, indeed, lyn, your on your own in colorforth and if you need "it", you may need to create "it". 23:23:26 that's why i like it 23:23:27 very tiny transient community. 23:23:29 ya. 23:24:11 I like it as well. 23:24:35 course i got a lot to learn 23:24:39 * zpg mutters something under his breath 23:24:45 I especially like to use windows colorforth because it can quickly knock off a few ideas and then translate them to other colorforths or forths in general. 23:25:00 under bochs? 23:25:07 no it's hosted. 23:25:17 by windows that is. 23:25:29 Even has an example of interfaceing windows. 23:25:40 hm! 23:25:58 been messing with that lately to do some string stuff. 23:26:15 Raystm2: interfacing with win32 libraries for string processing? 23:26:25 is there a download available of windows hosted colorforth? 23:26:36 Not for the actual processing no, display yes. 23:27:10 ah 23:27:11 lyn indeed. getting link... have to ask while i'm getting, have you ever run a colorforth? 23:27:27 Raystm2: does he know the 3 rules of colorForth? 23:27:34 Raystm2: and the secret handshake? 23:27:36 factor, factor and factor? 23:27:38 well, i just ran this bochs one, called up the editor, that's it 23:27:39 Rule one, give up now! 23:27:54 Rule there is no rule Two. 23:28:00 Rule three see rule one. 23:28:01 heh 23:28:10 hehe :) 23:28:14 slava lol\ 23:28:14 you guys are scary 23:28:25 it's scary if you go it alone. 23:28:29 i blame my upbringing and moral decisions. 23:29:05 I do to, I blame 'is upbringin' and moral deprications as well. :) 23:29:34 i figure i'll start slow with some code browsing, then maybe try some print statements 23:29:50 lyn: have you written any forth before? 23:30:12 printing text takes some effort in c4tf 23:30:14 no, just found forth 3 days ago, haven't slept much since then 23:30:28 heh 23:30:52 http://www.geocities.com/eleks_76/ nearly forgot what I was supposed to be doing there... :) 23:30:53 well, by all means look into colorForth if you want; but it's worth checking out more standard systems. 23:31:03 indeed lyn. 23:31:04 i've played with reva 23:31:22 these kind folks have shown me the error of my ways. 23:31:29 but i want a bare forth i can make my own 23:31:43 maybe i'm naive 23:31:50 thanks for link 23:32:05 Colorforth is not nearly worth the attention that it will take to learn it, unless you care to learn some really interesting combination of ideas. 23:32:21 ah yes, i saw that page, nice writeup on compiler 23:32:37 ya, get the full version. 23:32:40 load it 23:32:44 yeah i wanna learn the ideas 23:32:59 any trouble at all at all just say something in either c4th 23:33:21 thanks Raystm2! 23:33:33 I've written several things in colorforth. The first thing to do is forget everything you may know about computing. :) 23:34:41 The editor takes some getting used to and I don't mean because it is nearly dvorak laid-out but because it is a mode switch and the available letters are on the screen. Spacebar is enter. 23:35:11 primary colorforth is a nice intro 23:35:16 in the windows version you don't use the ALT button as one of the thumb positions, use ENTER instead. 23:35:25 ah 23:35:52 ALT will still be active in windows but colorforth is listening, even when you are in other windows. 23:36:19 it will read the mouse as well and enter crap on your cf command line interpreter. 23:36:26 just beware. 23:36:28 hm 23:36:40 not really a problem' 23:37:27 cf crashes, it only saves on BYE ( an exit) crashes don't save bad code. so when you develop its cool to have a keyboard shortcut to restart the program. 23:37:49 I use ctrl-alt-c for mine. 23:38:06 it's not a hastle as the system is very fast. 23:38:16 i like being able to write forth in a text editor across a ssh session. 23:38:22 i think cf might object. 23:39:16 you can create code in a text editor so long as you can pack that code with the word type tags and then just append it to a block of currently runable colorforth blocks. dd would be a good program for that. 23:39:37 do you have cygwin at that end? 23:39:42 you could write a colorforth editor in maybe python. 23:39:57 good info..is this channel logged? 23:40:00 yes 23:40:01 No, I dumped it for DJGPP. 23:40:04 yes 23:40:08 yes 23:40:16 yes!! 23:40:24 yay! 23:41:43 why not write a cf editor in cf? 23:42:11 slava, that's been done, but there is a new project to do it again. 23:42:14 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E0577D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:42:30 Or a cf editor in standard (well, "standard") Forth - or Factor, for that matter. 23:42:30 --- quit: crest_ (Connection timed out) 23:42:58 Oh, slava, that reminds me (also: hello!) - is anyone working on porting Factor to the Nintendo DS, now that the ARM port is in full swing? 23:43:28 sweet! this one's much faster 23:43:28 I've got half an editor, ( the display portion complete ) and I've got the accept interpreter from Mark Slicker and a few from Tim Neitz as well. I'll be merging that stuff in the Smallfonts version of colorforth. 23:43:34 YES@!! 23:43:42 lyn: you're running native now? 23:43:51 lyn: err, win32 hosted rather. 23:43:52 no hosted. 23:43:53 ya 23:45:07 who's giving colorforth to the newbies?! 23:45:11 gnomon: iirc there were some issues building with uclibc/uclinux 23:45:22 gnomon: i don't expect any insurmountable difficulties though 23:45:43 lyn: if you want something minimal that you can do anything to, try retroforth 23:45:45 slava, is there anything I can do to help with that effort? I can contribute hardware resources and a little time. 23:45:47 gnomon: also the default image is a tad large, but in the next release i'll have an easy way of building small images 23:45:48 JasonWoof: i-i... i tried to... i tried to make him stop... b-b-but... 23:45:54 hehe. 23:46:16 JasonWoof: I suppose I'm lonely. :( 23:46:18 lyn: it can boot, and has optional code for high level features, and even an ANSI layer (so you can run ANSI standard forth code) 23:46:21 gnomon: i know nothing about the DS. thelsdj was the one trying to port it 23:46:22 i don't know why but i got a good feeling about colorforth 23:46:24 slava, that's excellent. Image size was one of my main concerns for running on the DS. Also, how ROMable is the base Factor image? 23:46:37 gnomon: unfortunately its not romable 23:46:42 gnomon: how much ram does the beast have? 23:46:47 JasonWoof: i'll check it out 23:46:51 lyn, any history of mental health issues in the family then? cuz there is in mine :) 23:46:57 hehe 23:47:07 lyn: colorforth has some cool ideas, but the implementation is aweful and it's not documented 23:47:24 lyn: it isn't even all available in source form afaik 23:47:32 JasonWoof: how's your Herk stuff coming along? 23:47:39 i cannot imagine chuck moore producing awful code. i've been seduced! 23:47:47 zpg: I haven't been working on it at all 23:47:50 It's got 4 megs of RAM and a few smaller dedicated buffers (on-chip L1-ish stuff, a couple of video buffers and so forth). There are expansion cards which, with some access mode hackery, can provide up to 32 extra megs of RAM, but there's no portable way of doing that. 23:48:18 lyn: time to expand your imagination ;) 23:48:28 slava, how difficult would making the image ROMable be, do you think? Is it a matter of some hard work and development time, or would it require a system redesign? 23:48:33 gnomon: how much ROM? 23:49:00 slava, effectively unlimited. I've got a data card for my DS which provides me with 2 gigs of FAT storage. 23:49:03 gnomon: i've built images of ~500kb with little effort 23:49:11 he had me with the 1970 paper. so concise! 23:49:15 That sounds quite reasonable! 23:49:22 gnomon: that gives you a tty listener, basically, and not much else 23:49:28 lyn: forth or english? 23:49:35 both 23:49:43 cool 23:49:50 gnomon: when i switch to incremental mark sweep gc you'll be able to get away with perhaps 1mb oldspace and 1mb nursery 23:49:55 so 2mb ram will be feasable 23:50:06 lyn: I think part of the problem is that he didn't write colorforth to be read 23:50:08 right now the gc doubles the tenured space because its a copying gc 23:50:12 lyn: he wrote it to use 23:50:16 slava, hmm. 23:50:27 slava, what's the ETA on the new GC? 23:50:39 JasonWoof: i can see your point 23:50:42 gnomon: some time this year is all i can say, i'm afraid 23:50:46 gnomon: we're trying to get a windows ce port going 23:50:57 gnomon: that will bring about the first round of shrinkage 23:51:19 but people seem to be using it some 23:51:28 lyn: a little 23:51:37 4 people would be my guess 23:51:42 I've always preferred Enth/Flux 23:51:45 thought I'm not well informed 23:52:13 * lyn looks at retroforth 23:54:33 anybody else finds that mergesort is easier to implement with a stack than quicksort? 23:54:49 slava, that ought to be really fun. There are several smartphones that will be able to run Factor then, right? 23:54:55 gnomon: yup 23:55:14 gnomon: really factor is too bloated for small devices right now. but i'm working on several things 23:56:37 I am really looking forward to it being shrunk down for embedded use. 23:56:44 Well, semi-embedded, anywoop. 23:57:25 one idea we had for really small devices was to devise a forth-like language where you develop inside a full factor system running on a pc, then cross-compile to the device 23:57:48 the language would be a factor subset without gc and dynamic typing, but you'd get to use the factor tools during development such as cross-referencing, unit testing, profiler, etc 23:58:01 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:58:48 here's my mergesort: 23:58:49 : sort ( seq quot -- result ) 23:58:49 over length 1 <= [ drop ] [ >r divide r> conquer ] if ; 23:59:38 slava, the cross-compile idea is quite nice, but I think I would personally prefer to have as close to a full system as possible, even on an embedded device. Mind you, embedded self-hosting development is my particular itch. 23:59:46 ah 23:59:46 Mmm, nice mergesort. 23:59:51 me too. i want to be able to write code on a pda, etc 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.03.12