00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.03.11 00:47:06 --- part: edrx left #forth 00:48:08 --- join: Snoopy_1711 (n=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-159-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 00:59:23 --- quit: Quartus (Remote closed the connection) 00:59:52 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 00:59:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 01:06:52 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:06:54 --- nick: Snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 03:35:14 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-26b372bfab244af9) joined #forth 04:33:42 --- join: yumehito_ (n=yumehito@b-internet.87.103.254.70.snt.ru) joined #forth 04:46:14 --- quit: yumehito (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:06:52 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 05:07:48 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-82393fe3ecd161e3) joined #forth 05:22:26 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:30:48 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 05:30:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 05:43:10 --- nick: crest_ -> Crest 05:58:25 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekepro@82.200.252.16) joined #forth 08:40:43 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 08:40:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 09:05:22 --- quit: Quartus () 09:13:20 --- join: Quartus (n=neal@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:13:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 09:21:35 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 09:23:34 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-5dec6f2b4944918e) joined #forth 09:44:50 good afternoon 10:33:49 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:39:13 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 12:26:46 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 12:26:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 13:02:28 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0602.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 13:03:12 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@user-12l325b.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 13:09:48 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.14.246) joined #forth 13:09:50 --- join: alexshendi (n=alexshen@dslb-088-065-227-171.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:19:14 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:21:21 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 14:09:56 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 14:57:20 --- nick: arke -> arke_ 14:58:14 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 15:00:38 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:13:54 --- quit: hyrax_ ("Konversation terminated!") 15:31:21 --- quit: alexshendi ("This computer has gone to sleep") 15:45:25 --- join: hyrax_ (n=dschauer@cpe-76-187-163-5.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:45:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o hyrax_ 15:54:10 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 15:54:13 chaps. 15:54:28 z!!!!!!111oneoneone 15:54:32 sup? 15:54:42 Raystm2: ! 15:54:42 hi 15:54:43 not too much sir, not too much. a very slow sunday 15:54:45 long time no talk:) 15:54:45 yourself? 15:54:47 (hey arke) 15:54:50 ARKE 15:54:51 hi zpg 15:55:02 yes indeed. 15:55:22 I've been absent. Don't know about ya'll, havn't kept up with the log. 15:55:34 Usually get a chance to pop in for a minute a day. 15:55:42 sounds like you're busy. 15:56:28 Ya. I'm creating. 15:57:19 and what might you be creating? 15:57:24 Looks like I'm taking the long way back to recreating my Windows Colorforth, as well. 15:57:52 zpg, had to quit job, starting online income, writting book, site, sales pages... 15:58:11 you're writing a book? 16:00:24 YES, I have several in mind and one in active development. 16:00:33 fiction? 16:00:39 Can't let Quartus be the only published author. 16:00:47 :) 16:01:15 No, not fiction. Science fact. 16:09:27 good stuff. target market? 16:10:46 That's my problem. Market is way too big. Need to focus on portions and then expand properly, but deciding where to focus first is hard. Actually have to develope each version, test and go from there. Much like programming. 16:12:24 So, I'm trying out a generic approach. I spend some time looking at this from several angles, then see if I can merge idea's. All the while trying to KISS it, you know? 16:12:40 indeed so. 16:12:45 so popular rather than technical? 16:14:50 I hope popular someday, more on the technical end. The thing gets as deep as you care to go, but the mass audience is watching wrestling right now and totally believes it's real. HEY that's it. Focus on those that are really going to go deep. If it works there, and is "back-scalable" to simple... 16:17:00 Besides, who of us really believes he's not very intelligent? 16:18:27 :) 16:18:36 belief and knowledge are quite different 16:18:50 so true. 16:18:57 so, which area in particular? 16:19:45 My colorforth book won't get a "life-supporting" income level, ever, so it needs to be free, when finished. That means I have to have a book that supports me first. 16:19:48 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 16:19:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 16:19:58 Hi JG! 16:20:03 good evening 16:20:16 hey tathi 16:20:25 hi Ray, zpg 16:20:28 how goes it? 16:20:35 well thanks. 16:20:45 SLooow, with a capital SL. 16:21:26 Raystm2: I take it that's a bad thing? 16:21:43 NO! actually a very good thing. 16:21:53 I was going way to fast there for a while. :) 16:22:35 heh. ok then. 16:22:53 * Raystm2 taking a back seat view for a while. 16:23:04 tathi: what of Maine? 16:23:48 not so much; more doing stuff around here to get this house ready to be sold. 16:24:12 Did you say you already had a place picked out? 16:24:34 yeah, we have a deal signed for the place up there. 16:25:02 The current owners are moving to Canada at the end of the summer 16:25:19 But I'm going up there the beginning of May to train so we can take over the operation as smoothly as possible. 16:25:47 train? 16:26:20 they have a small farming business going already 16:26:34 ahh 16:26:45 I know something about that sort of thing, but not enough to just jump in and take over. :) 16:38:03 Smart. 16:41:55 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:44:19 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@ppp-70-243-217-145.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:51:05 also I've been wasting time thinking about text editors, since gnomon asked about them the other day. 16:51:45 stop that at once :) 16:51:55 :) 16:53:21 I have never stopped to consider building a hammer, when there's carpentry at hand. :) 16:53:55 * zpg chuckles 16:54:02 what was gnomon saying that inspired this deep meditation? 16:54:29 oh, he asked if there were editors written in Forth, other than Leo Wong's LF/MF/HF 16:55:10 Sam Falvo's VIBE 16:55:15 but thats block-based. 16:55:21 yeah, I extended that a bit. 16:55:39 I'm getting sort of disenchanted with the vi interface though. 16:57:28 i see. 17:18:08 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:21:53 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.8.65) joined #forth 17:29:55 --- quit: zpg (Remote closed the connection) 17:32:23 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 17:34:27 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-54-194-74.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 17:50:32 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p5489F813.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:51:47 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:52:24 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 17:53:52 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:54:26 --- join: tgunr (n=davec@70-41-252-106.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 17:59:33 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:35:00 --- join: Raystm2- (n=NanRay@adsl-68-93-115-164.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 18:37:51 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:02:20 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:03:25 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:22:02 --- join: asau (n=asau@ggsn3inet2.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 19:22:37 Dobre jitro! 19:23:10 Who told me he's using Riece? 19:24:08 How, the hell, do I use all these windows? 19:24:21 I've got... 5 of them. 19:25:39 /join #SrcEdit 19:42:38 --- join: zpg` (n=user@user-54441419.lns1-c10.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 19:45:51 Good morning, zpg. 19:46:26 hi asau 19:48:42 hey 19:48:49 hi Quartus 19:48:57 what uppeth be? 19:49:17 Wait a minute, I switch. 19:49:30 not too much, how've you been? 19:49:52 hanging in. Busy. 19:50:00 good stuff. 19:50:36 --- join: ASau` (n=user@ggsn3inet2.beelinegprs.ru) joined #forth 19:50:48 Allright, I'm here. 19:51:44 --- quit: asau ("Riece/3.1.2 Emacs/21.4 (berkeley-unix)") 19:51:57 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 19:52:31 --- quit: zpg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:52:36 To hell this Riece. 19:52:55 so try ERC 19:55:50 Now I am. 19:56:00 *I do. 19:56:52 It happened because for some strange reason, pkgsrc 19:56:56 collection misses ERC, but contains Riece. 19:57:15 ERC isn't bundled with 21.x? 19:58:47 Right. 19:59:08 i hear rcirc is pretty neat. 19:59:14 I'm waiting for 22.0.94 to arrive. 19:59:26 downloading it now? 19:59:41 Right. 20:00:34 The only distraction of '22 is it does not have w3m. 20:00:51 At least I've failed to fix emacs-w3m package. 20:01:13 Maybe, I was in big hurry then, I'm not sure now. 20:01:45 well, i don't use w3m but it appears to be in my ~/elisp directory. not a huge problem to have some packages installed separately. 20:03:17 I don't like Firefox and links for it's hard to cut and save text. 20:03:32 In comparison with emacs-w3m. 20:03:53 i've just found most of these emacs modes for mail and web browsing pretty poor in comparison to their dedicated counterparts. not to mention slow. 20:04:08 s/to their/with their/ 20:05:59 I do not merely browse. 20:06:27 what do you do in addition? sing? 20:06:55 As for mail, I find Gnus far better than all those 20:07:00 "specialized" counterparts. 20:07:16 Mail is more writing text than just reading. 20:07:33 I often cut text. 20:07:46 And there're forums/blogs around. 20:07:59 ...and...? 20:08:23 I have several correspondents who are "blog-only" or "forum-only". 20:09:16 I once was referred to a woman named Jamie-Lynn. If you called her Jamie by mistake, she apparently got very upset and wouldn't talk to you anymore. I never bothered to even try. 20:09:19 ("Corresp." is bad word, I don't know good one.) 20:09:48 Quartus: heh 20:10:31 If somebody has so crippled themselves that they refuse to accept email, I am not willing to work around their damage. 20:13:37 That's not about mail vs. blog, that's about mail list or news group vs. blog. 20:14:05 Those respondents are not tech geeks or like. 20:14:34 My world is not restricted to programmers or EEs. 20:16:15 BTW, I still can't find good and reliable public news feed. 20:16:50 So, I have to admit blog is superiour. 20:17:15 i'm lost. 20:17:30 you can get a news feed of c.l.f 20:17:33 it's just a mechanism 20:18:12 Many people do not know about NNTP and newsreaders. 20:18:28 ... email is geek-only? 20:18:44 They know "Google groups" and "Talk.ru forums". 20:18:48 1985 called, they wonder where you went. 20:19:20 It seems to be so. 20:19:46 anyway, the technophobia aside, what's this "emacs allows cutting" business? 20:20:11 Well, I'm to correct, I'm speaking about "many-to-many" interaction. 20:20:24 As for "one-to-one" e-mail is still good. 20:21:18 I suggest worrying more about what, and how, you say whatever you have to say, than what tool you use to do it with. 20:21:25 Probably there's no alternative WWW-based approach now. 20:22:05 Those things are tightly connected. 20:22:10 Nonsense. 20:22:16 The tool matters too. 20:22:41 a mcluhan disciple 20:22:50 Rubbish. If you have something to say, I not only don't know what it is you used to type it in with, I don't care. 20:23:56 If you have something to _say_, you restrict yourself to _text_. 20:24:09 If you have something to _express_, the tool matters. 20:24:48 Web log is more flexible in the latter case. 20:24:59 At least it seems so. 20:25:03 a web log contains no text? 20:25:46 Have you ever seen web log of photographer? 20:25:51 Artist? 20:26:03 In Soviet Russia, web log expresses you! 20:26:16 * zpg` chuckles 20:26:45 ASau: etc. etc., of course we have multi-media; though the same applies to e-mail. 20:27:05 ASau: and your argument that 'saying' and 'expressing' are somehow distinct categories seems quiestionable. 20:27:41 i think the real distinction lies in the method of expression - as you say, photograph, painting, audio, etc.; i don't follow the adulation of blogs. 20:28:53 zpg`, you may have to tell him that via a 'web log', what you're trying to ... express ... may be too ... something ... for this limited 'text' medium. 20:28:57 Quartus, there're modern artistic movements/schools where 20:29:01 art is brought to be "first-class". 20:29:28 They're radical in some sense, but still they do exist. 20:29:58 Quartus: heh 20:30:06 this is all rather absurd 20:30:20 There are small mice that live in disused tennis balls near Wimbledon. 20:30:37 do they have a web log? 20:30:42 zpg, as we get HTML to be not markup language but page 20:30:46 description language, e-mail loses expressivity. 20:30:52 what? 20:31:57 E-mail client is allowed to perform art-work with more 20:32:02 variations than it's wanted. 20:32:13 If the content you want to 'express' is as inane and blithering as what you're 'expressing' now, rest assured it will be equally so no matter what tool you use. 20:32:45 You miss the point. 20:32:51 Because that's coming through loud and clear in text-only. 20:33:01 No additional instruments required. 20:33:15 Firefox, Internet Exporer, or Opera are more similar than 20:33:19 mail clients. 20:33:23 well duh 20:33:41 Right, browsers are more like browsers than they are like pies. 20:34:13 Hang on, maybe we need a flowchart here. 20:34:46 "on the left we have a head, on the right a wall. the arrow represents the flow of force from the neck muscles, thrusting the cranium onto the brick face" 20:35:08 you see the limitation of the text-only medium; we can't actually drive his head into the brick. 20:35:47 BTW, I don't even know if news reader is supposed to interprete MIME in messages. 20:35:56 News messages. 20:36:10 have you guys noticed how all the posts on usenet are on usenet? 20:36:25 (usenet posts) 20:36:36 At least I don't know for sure. 20:36:38 (all (usenet (posts))) 20:36:53 zpg`, YOU BRILLIANT BASTARD! 20:36:55 Don't lisp! 20:37:01 Speak forth. 20:37:21 I cannot believe you came up with that, and were able to EXPRESS it in a TEXT-ONLY MEDIUM! HOLY FREAKING CRAP! 20:37:40 one at a time please. 20:38:26 Hmm. 20:38:33 It's interesting. 20:39:07 How many news readers could render a message with "Content-type: application/x-pdf" 20:39:29 17 20:39:36 Or "text/html". 20:39:40 zpg`, christ your ignorance is outstanding. It's 18. 20:39:52 i blame my backtick 20:39:56 it's really weighing me down. 20:40:13 ASau: what's your point? 20:43:19 I think, that lack of reliable public news feeds and 20:43:22 necessity of tuning your favourite news client makes USENET 20:43:22 unreliable at least. 20:44:03 As for artistic provisions, the protocol makes it almost 20:44:06 impossible to use anything except the text. 20:44:45 And the text is not everything. 20:46:21 Strange. 20:46:30 XMMS does not accept FLAC. 20:46:43 What have I done wrong? 21:03:15 did you install the necessary plugin? 21:26:00 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:51:36 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:56:51 night 21:56:53 --- quit: zpg` ("bed") 21:59:21 I guess he didn't. 21:59:39 --- nick: Raystm2- -> Raystm2 21:59:47 Guess not. 22:00:34 What a maroon. 22:23:27 --- quit: Quartus () 23:17:36 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:17:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 23:18:44 --- join: alexshendi (n=alexshen@dslb-088-065-237-130.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 23:41:35 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E06F4A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:57:57 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.03.11