00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.02.16 01:11:36 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:10:26 --- join: snowrichard (n=snow_ric@12.18.108.130) joined #forth 03:10:28 hi 03:12:50 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 04:07:01 --- quit: arke_ (Remote closed the connection) 04:07:10 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E0721F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:27:47 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p54894E36.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:30:04 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:30:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 04:53:54 --- quit: JasonWoof ("foo bar baz qux quux corge grault garply waldo fred plugh xyzzy thud") 04:59:09 --- join: azekeprofit_ (i=azekePro@82.200.250.71) joined #forth 04:59:18 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 05:12:25 --- quit: tathi (Remote closed the connection) 05:13:01 --- quit: azekeprofit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:28:12 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:28:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 06:14:24 --- nick: azekeprofit_ -> azekeprofit 06:23:12 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 06:24:21 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-b45cf9e69079ef0a) joined #forth 06:24:49 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 06:24:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 07:14:41 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 07:20:47 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 07:20:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 08:24:10 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 08:26:18 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e17cf3ae5df0a574) joined #forth 08:41:43 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 11:38:07 --- join: Snoopy1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-110-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 11:44:26 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:44:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 11:45:54 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:45:59 --- nick: Snoopy1711 -> Snoopy42 11:52:38 --- quit: Quartus_ ("used jmIrc") 11:52:55 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 11:52:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 11:56:40 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:57:44 --- quit: ygrek () 13:15:43 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:17:16 Quartus, how much PalmOS-specific code is there in your Forth? 14:22:45 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 14:25:04 --- quit: madwork (Nick collision from services.) 14:25:09 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 14:28:09 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 14:28:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 14:28:29 hey 14:28:34 what's up? 14:29:04 hey Quartus 14:29:45 how goes it? 15:09:12 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@bas2-kitchener06-1096668571.dsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 15:23:48 17:15 < gnomon> Quartus, how much PalmOS-specific code is there in your Forth? 15:24:06 hard to say. 10%? 15:26:56 --- quit: grfrblshntz (Remote closed the connection) 15:32:16 good evening 15:42:21 vening 15:42:24 e 15:42:45 sorry for the ig-latin 15:58:08 mmmm 15:58:21 my roast beef sandwitch meat was boring 15:58:32 so I put kayan pepper and black pepper on it 15:58:37 yum 16:21:12 hi JasonWoof 16:21:33 * slava had fries, gravy, chicken and cheese curds 16:21:38 its called "poutine" :-) 16:28:29 huh 16:28:36 can't figure out why text-indent dosen't work 16:28:46 what's that? 16:29:15 css property 16:29:25 oh 16:29:26 it's supposed to indent the first line of a paragraph 16:29:43 poutine'll kill ya 16:29:54 I don't think I've ever wanted that. I've always wanted to indent all except the first line 16:30:04 Quartus: heh 16:30:16 straight to the arteries :) 16:30:19 you should be able to achieve that, by indenting everything, then setting a negative text-indent 16:30:27 Quartus: mmm 16:30:34 but currently I can't get it to obey my text-indent (positive or negative) 16:30:43 I know, I eat Tim Horton's breakfast sausage sandwiches 16:30:45 also lethal 16:31:01 hah! 16:31:22 found it. I guess the trick is to stop staring at it, go bitch for a while, then when you come back the missing colon will be staring you in the face 16:31:58 use a css validator 16:36:07 I would have, but I thought it was a browser bug :-P 16:36:14 I've had trouble with text-indent before 16:36:27 i try to assume bugs are in my code and not in the stuff i use 16:36:38 i've spent plenty of time finger pointing then noticing i was doing stuff wrong 16:36:45 so i want to avoid that now 16:37:10 yeah 16:37:28 I'm not in the right frame of mind I guess. I've been reading about inconsistancies between browsers and bugs and such 16:38:02 I finally did the research to find out if/when they fixed the bug in IE where it gets the "width" property wrong if you also specify a padding or border 16:38:14 and I'm happy to report that it was fixed in 6.0 16:39:16 --- join: slava_ (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:39:21 * slava_ is on intel mac 16:51:27 I don't know why the envireonment? word in the ans standard is so limited. that you can't retrieve information about the name of the forth system, which version it is, on which os it runs and which version the OS is. 16:54:03 so you have to use non-standard extensions to test if non-standard extensions are present? :) 16:55:18 yes, seems so. 16:56:54 it's so easy to use it 16:57:54 what forth are you using? 16:59:32 you might be able to use ENVIRONMENT? to get that information, it's just that the standard doesn't define that stuff. 16:59:45 this is odd 16:59:52 on os x, if a process overruns the C stack, only kill -9 will kill it 17:00:06 not ^C, or plain kill 17:00:46 huh. so it's somehow screwing up signal delivery? 17:00:52 well, I tried now to use gforth again and stumbled over this. normally I use reva or retroforth 17:01:05 tathi: i guess 17:01:36 virl: in gforth you can do 'environment-wordlist wordlist-words' to get the names of all the environment values. 17:01:49 s" gforth" environment? gives the gforth version 17:02:07 as a string 17:03:21 well, too less information. 17:05:58 and because of the lack of the standard it's quiet broken, personally I think to include the envireonment? word is only useful on embedded systems 17:07:02 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@12.18.108.130) joined #forth 17:07:07 hi 17:07:09 based on that it's difficult to weave plattform dependant code with 'portable' code 17:07:27 put platform specific stuff in different source files 17:07:33 yeah 17:07:36 and have a top-level 'loader' file for each platform 17:07:41 easy enough to check for specific systems 17:08:35 in which sense it is easy? 17:08:49 not a multi-year, 100 developer project 17:09:07 : gforth? s" gforth" environment? nip nip ; 17:09:12 ( -- flag ) 17:09:39 gforth? [IF] include gforth.fs [THEN] 17:09:52 you must be joking 17:10:00 i don't think he is. 17:10:01 tathi: that would make a lot of sense. on my box when I get an exception all kinds of crap is pushed onto the stack, and r1 is incremented a bunch 17:10:18 virl: I'm not joking. I didn't actually test that code, but it should work just fine. 17:13:29 yeah 17:13:45 I don't see how it could get much easier than that. 17:14:26 ffi is a pain 17:14:31 there are so many combinations to get right 17:14:40 :( 17:14:45 what are you working on now? 17:14:56 returning structs by value on intel mac 17:15:00 from callbacks 17:15:07 ah 17:15:27 works fine on linux, but on mac os x a struct <= 8 bytes is returned in EAX:EDX 17:15:46 its not rocket science but getting the code structured in a clean way without 2^(number of possibilities) conditionals is hard 17:16:27 hrm 17:23:21 freshmeat.net posted my rstudio version upgrade announcement 17:25:32 tathi, on all other forths that doesn't really work. 17:26:35 on any Standard Forth it will return false. 17:27:10 non-standard forths are of course a different problem 17:27:38 virl: why not? 17:28:01 maybe you could first check to see if environment? is present...? 17:29:03 yes, but when a forth doesn't define such variables like gforth does?(besides the fact that gforths informations aren't that what I would expect) 17:29:18 try it... 17:31:13 oh. hrm. I thought the standard said that other strings were supposed to be treated as unknown. 17:31:32 but actually it doesn't say anything about other strings than those defined in the standard. 17:32:04 Still, any sane implementation should return false for a query string which it doesn't know about. 17:32:27 I mean when the string isn't defined then the system doesn't get supported. 17:32:49 yes, but if you're running gforth, then the string WILL BE defined. 17:32:55 and if you're running some other system, you'll do some other check 17:32:56 and because of such a misconception 17:33:06 and have some other file containing code which is specific to that system. 17:33:09 am I talking to a wall? 17:33:30 I'm listening, but I can't make any sense out of what you're saying. 17:33:31 I don't talk about the returning code 17:33:44 oh 17:34:33 I talk about the fact that when a forth system doesn't include any way of testing which system it is then you can't support it. 17:35:42 do you know of such a forth? 17:36:17 but yes, I understand that it would be a problem. 17:38:50 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.11.52) joined #forth 17:39:52 pfe, seems to be such a forth. 17:40:16 but that information is out of the manual, so I need to test it 17:40:38 tathi: does LWZU update the register before or after the read? 17:40:46 i mean 17:40:59 it uses the updated address 17:41:06 ok thanks 17:42:36 I believe it's illegal to use the same register for both arguments there (or any other updating load). 17:43:48 urgh, compilation error. 17:43:50 ya, the Motorola manual says lwzu rD,d(rA) -- if rA = 0 or rA = rD, the instruction form is invalid. 17:44:05 eh. I guess that was obvious. 17:44:26 i don't like r0 :) 17:44:55 yeah. works differently in addi, addis, and load/store instructions. 17:45:04 er. doesn't work, that is. :) 17:46:13 --- quit: snowrichard (Remote closed the connection) 17:47:35 getting 'small structs' working on mac intel is quite an overhaul of the entire ffi 17:47:55 on the other hand, i was able to remove some C code from the runtime, including ugly #define macrology 17:50:33 i'm winning the war on C 17:52:06 * tathi cheers slava on :) 17:52:42 virl: I don't see a way to detect retroforth which wouldn't cause trouble on a standard system... 17:52:54 what about the retroforth ans layer? 17:53:39 I assume that would work. 17:54:25 but it seems like with non-standard forths, you might have to have some sort of external 'configure' step. 17:54:35 instead of being able to detect from within your forth program. 18:11:42 Of course. 18:15:02 The environment? query for gforth works fine on gforth, returns a version number. Returns 0 on standard systems that don't provide that string. 18:15:29 Returns 0 on rf with the standard layer, for instance. 18:16:06 yeah, I would think it would have to, though the standard doesn't explicitly mention other strings than those defined in the standard itself. 18:17:13 "If the system treates the attribute as unknown, the returned flag is false" 18:18:27 oh, it just says "should contain", not "must contain". gotcha. 18:20:01 Right. 18:21:10 hey, did you see my question the other day about ] invoking a compiler loop? 18:21:17 no. What was it? 18:21:52 from A.6.1.2250 STATE 18:21:55 : NOP : POSTPONE ; IMMEDIATE ; 18:21:55 NOP ALIGN NOP ALIGNED 18:21:55 Some non-ANS Forth compliant systems have ] invoke a compiler loop in addition to setting 18:21:58 STATE. Such a system would inappropriately attempt to compile the second use of NOP. 18:22:21 Right. 18:22:24 I don't understand that. If ] invoked a compiler loop, wouldn't [ (and hence ;) exit it? 18:22:31 and then it would compile correctly 18:22:36 what am I missing? 18:23:22 No, because the loop would be inside : 18:23:41 inside [ actually, called by : 18:23:46 ah... 18:23:48 thank you. 18:24:27 One of the reasons why that setup is so lousy. 18:25:48 er, ] I mean -- holding a cat, hard to type :) 18:26:27 heh. I screwed up my cross-compiler the other day, accidentally got [ and ] mixed up. 18:26:35 took me forever to figure that one out :) 18:26:42 :) 18:31:52 Hello. How's the weather by ya'll? 18:32:00 hey ray 18:32:04 cold 18:32:49 hi Ray 18:33:07 Cats are being a little more lap-able of late. 18:33:46 mine's ill 18:34:03 My fat one is a great foot warmer. 18:34:10 Ooh, sorry to read that. 18:34:20 he may yet live. 18:41:48 he has an excuse, he's olde :) 19:04:58 --- part: edrx left #forth 19:27:03 How old? 19:59:04 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:02:16 --- quit: slava_ () 20:03:54 --- join: slava_ (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:31:55 --- quit: slava_ () 20:43:54 --- join: LoganCapaldo_ (n=logan@ool-457a8e39.dyn.optonline.net) joined #forth 21:20:18 sorry... 22. 21:34:07 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:53:41 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@12.18.108.130) joined #forth 21:53:47 hi 22:51:53 --- quit: LoganCapaldo_ (" sleep") 22:55:44 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E05021.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:00:16 --- part: Quartus left #forth 23:00:24 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:00:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 23:12:09 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.02.16