00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.02.01
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06:19:15 <Ray_work> Good morning.
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08:54:23 <Ray_work> Good morning Joshua.
08:54:42 <tathi> Good morning, sir!
08:54:57 <Ray_work> You know, Josh, been meaning to ask...
08:55:33 <Ray_work> How do you pronounce your nick? is it TaT Hi   or Ta THTHEE or...?
08:58:31 <tathi> the latter
08:58:50 <Ray_work> as I thought. Is it a made up word?
08:58:57 <tathi> ya
08:59:08 <Ray_work> cool cool. 
08:59:27 <tathi> from back when I thought it was cool to have a nickname that had nothing to do with my real name :)
09:00:09 <Ray_work> can't believe i've known you going on what 3 years or so... :)
09:00:15 <Ray_work> ya 
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09:00:44 <Ray_work> I wanted a cool nick like that but i've been trying to build credablility behind my name.
09:01:01 <Ray_work> May have ruined it, being a proponant for cf :)
09:01:14 <tathi> I keep thinking about changing to JoshGrams or something
09:01:17 <Ray_work> or toy forths in general.
09:01:19 <Ray_work> ya.
09:01:20 <tathi> but I don't really care that much :)
09:01:24 <Ray_work> sure.
09:01:56 <Ray_work> big plans for today?
09:02:05 <tathi> not much.
09:02:09 <tathi> starting doing some cleaning.
09:02:19 <Ray_work> cool cool.
09:02:28 <Ray_work> got to do some of that ourselves.
09:02:29 <I440r> SURE your cleaning... thats why your on IRC :)
09:02:48 <Ray_work> hehe.
09:02:59 <tathi> :)
09:03:08 <Ray_work> we got the grant people coming to help remodel the house. 
09:03:19 <Ray_work> Nan's been a real dynamo lately.
09:05:09 <Ray_work> I am so looking forward to central heat and air.
09:05:56 <Ray_work> Never thought about grants before. While I was out of work couple years ago, Nan put in for the grant to finish the work we started and 3 years later we were approved. 
09:06:24 * Ray_work thinking about an educational grant or a business grant next.
09:06:51 <tathi> that's very cool
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09:08:07 <Ray_work> Nan knows me so well. 
09:08:15 <Ray_work> Couldn't find my w2. 
09:08:27 <Ray_work> she somehow knew it was in my wallet
09:08:29 <Ray_work> doh!
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15:17:12 <slava> Quartus_: werty wants you to go smoke a cigarette
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15:28:09 <I440r> please dont talk about werty, he is a non entity - treat him as such!
15:28:15 <I440r> he is VERY annoying
15:28:23 <I440r> i cant even read clf any more
15:28:36 <I440r> btw. did you release your arm asm ? :)
15:28:52 <slava> http://factorcode.org/repos/Factor/core/compiler/arm/assembler.factor
15:28:55 <slava> its incomplete
15:29:43 <I440r> whats missin ?
15:29:50 <slava> look near the end
15:29:53 <I440r> ok heh 
15:29:56 <slava> there are some comments
15:30:15 <I440r> what does symbol: do? create a variable?
15:30:34 <I440r> ok, i dont know what half the words you have in here do lol
15:30:35 <slava> it creates a word which pushes itself on the stack
15:30:46 <slava> porting this to forth would probably make it 2x as long
15:30:54 <I440r> define pushes itself... its xt ?
15:30:59 <slava> no, itself
15:31:02 <slava> the stack holds objects in factor
15:31:04 <slava> words are objects
15:31:06 <slava> SYMBOL: foo
15:31:07 <slava> foo .
15:31:09 <slava> prints foo
15:32:03 <I440r> aha
15:33:28 <I440r> so what happens if you do foo foo + . ?
15:33:30 <I440r> foofoo ?
15:33:36 <slava> throws an error
15:33:39 <slava> + can only be applied to numbers
15:33:56 <I440r> would be a neat way of doing string concat heh
15:34:04 <slava> strings are not words
15:34:10 <slava> you can do "hello" " world" append
15:34:28 <I440r> then whats the difference between a label and a string
15:34:50 <slava> a word and a string?
15:34:58 <slava> well a word has executable behavior attached and lives in the dictionary
15:35:04 <slava> a string is just a list of characters
15:35:23 <I440r> no. what is the difference between a SYMBOL: and a string
15:35:39 <slava> symbols still live in  the dictionary
15:35:50 <I440r> so a symbol is a NAMED string
15:35:59 <slava> yes, its a string named as itself, in some sense
15:36:08 <I440r> can you do foo foo append ?
15:36:15 <slava> no
15:36:21 <slava> but you can do foo word-name dup append
15:36:34 <I440r> ok you lost me lol
15:36:42 <slava> word-name ( word -- string )
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15:41:27 <I440r> btw, there are no RULES about not talking about werty, he just annoys me
15:41:51 <slava> personally people like Doty annoy me much more than werty
15:46:23 <I440r> a nebbish is a nebbish
15:46:34 <I440r> a nebbish is annoying
15:47:02 <slava> c.l.f has been crap for a long time before werty
15:47:11 <slava> 100 post flamewars on the proper way to implement DEFER, etc
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16:05:25 <I440r> true but it was liveable then
16:05:43 <I440r> werty makes clf not worth visiting at all
16:05:56 <I440r> got my new laptop today
16:05:59 <Raystm2> I'm glad to see that cuz maybe I didn't miss much.
16:06:05 <Raystm2> Ho cool. 
16:06:10 <Raystm2> what did you get?
16:06:19 <I440r> ASUS A8JS 4S034P
16:06:39 <I440r> dual core 2.0 ghz centrino
16:06:58 <I440r> with an nvidia geforce 7700
16:07:28 <Raystm2> just looked it up. Neat.
16:07:31 <Raystm2> Wished I had one.
16:08:00 <I440r> expensive. wish it had a 64 bit cpu. i was gona run 32 bit win and 64 bit linux on it lol
16:08:01 <Raystm2> Good price. I suppose. Just can't bring myself to spend over 5-600 dollars for a machine.
16:08:06 <I440r> but 32 bit cpu is ok
16:08:08 <Raystm2> ya.
16:08:11 <Raystm2> it is.
16:08:33 <I440r> i personally dont care about 64 bit but a friend of mine asked if i would beta some software for him
16:08:45 <Raystm2> I see.
16:09:17 <I440r> my desktop (which i leave at work) is dual core athlon fx-60 which is 64 bit. i have 32 bit win and 32 bit linux installed on it
16:09:21 <slava> 64-bit x86 is nicer than 32 bit
16:09:48 <Raystm2> is it? I suppose so.
16:09:50 <I440r> i get a free upgrade to vista with this laptop but 64 bit vista is not going to be worth using for about 2 years if you ask me
16:10:00 <I440r> its currently unstable
16:10:06 <Raystm2> I'm sure you are right.
16:10:09 <I440r> and not very well supported yet
16:10:28 <I440r> 64 bit x86 right now is more trouble than its worth hehe
16:10:31 <Raystm2> Who byes M$ on release day? Somebody does.
16:10:37 <Raystm2> buys dang
16:10:47 <I440r> its free :P
16:10:55 <I440r> i just pay the shipping for the cd
16:11:23 <Raystm2> I know, but i'm speaking of the millions of people that will get vista in the first month.
16:11:32 <I440r> oh 
16:11:34 <I440r> ya lol
16:11:38 <Raystm2> Why? Doesn't anybody learn?
16:11:43 <I440r> well theres a good reason TO get vista
16:11:54 <I440r> xp is going to be unsupported one year after the release of vista
16:11:54 <Raystm2> Is there?
16:12:09 <I440r> those that NEED the support need to upgrade
16:12:22 <Raystm2> Bztyardssunzabtchs
16:12:42 <I440r> lol i dont know if thats a real word or not. but it looks like a GOOD one heh
16:13:03 <Raystm2> oh well, I've never really need help from M$ that I couldn't find myself, and a darn sight easier to understand.
16:13:35 <Raystm2> it's how I pronounced it when I said it thru clenched teeth.
16:13:48 <I440r> heh
16:13:50 <Raystm2> ( bastard sons a bitches )
16:14:10 <I440r> you mean you have problems understanding the pakistani pesants ?
16:14:17 <Raystm2> Lol
16:14:23 <Raystm2> Actually, no.
16:14:31 <I440r> lol
16:15:05 <Raystm2> I enjoy talking to Tech Support, India near the Ganges.
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16:16:23 <Raystm2> They always conspicuously have names like Randy and Allen and other English names.
16:16:40 <Raystm2> No like Thomas, right out of the bible.
16:17:14 <Raystm2> But they are always professional and pleasant.
16:17:33 <I440r> :)
16:17:52 <Raystm2> I usually fill out the survey and say something nice. :)
16:19:13 <I440r> i like this asus live update thing. you click on the server and hit ok and it tells you "the environment is no need to update"
16:19:13 <I440r> lol
16:19:28 <Raystm2> heh great.
16:19:53 <Raystm2> is no
16:20:01 <I440r> :)
16:20:18 <Raystm2> I like that too. All your base is no update.
16:21:13 <I440r> lol
16:21:14 <Raystm2> Did you get pro or home?
16:21:20 <I440r> pro
16:21:32 <Raystm2> Ya, doh! i coulda had that. 
16:22:11 * Raystm2 realizes he is revealing way too much embarassment for a forth group to keep from banning him.
16:23:24 <Raystm2> Wireless?
16:23:31 <I440r> yes a/b/g
16:23:40 <Raystm2> excellent are you on it now?
16:23:47 <I440r> it has the option for bluetooth but i dont think mine has it 
16:23:55 <Raystm2> I see.
16:24:01 <I440r> its to my left this is my desktop
16:24:11 <Raystm2> Ok. Plans for it?
16:24:43 <I440r> install gentoo. maybe do some more isforth devel
16:24:51 <slava> cool
16:24:55 <Raystm2> yup cool.
16:24:57 <I440r> play WoW in windows and use windows for general boring work crap 
16:24:57 <I440r> lol
16:25:07 <slava> i want to see isforth reach fpc's level of tooling
16:25:20 <slava> no, no WoW! write code!! :-P
16:25:24 <I440r> isforths debugger is better than the fpc debugger :P
16:25:33 <slava> yeah but you don't have an editor or help :p
16:25:39 <I440r> tho. fpc had an assembler 
16:25:46 <slava> that's not that important
16:25:52 <I440r> help is on the todo but an editor isnt (maybe)
16:25:56 <Raystm2> Help :) let them come here and ask :)
16:26:02 <I440r> lol
16:26:13 <Raystm2> Give 'em a link.
16:26:24 <I440r> no i implemented block files in isforth so i could put every single word's help etc in blocks
16:26:35 <I440r> i need to rewrite the block file code tho
16:26:35 <Raystm2> cool.
16:26:56 <I440r> im not sure if i want to implement vlew links to the headers but it WOULD be usefull
16:27:04 <I440r> see foo is not as usefull as view foo
16:27:07 <slava> factor has that feature i use it all the time
16:27:28 <I440r> assembler and metacompiler are the top two items on my list
16:28:30 <I440r> will have to connect laptop to hard wire to install gentoo tho because the drivers for the wireless arent on the install cd
16:28:43 <Raystm2> I understand that JasonWoof's got a see or something like it that uses a mouse over to put the words def under the current one.
16:28:52 <I440r> tho intel does support linux and is developing drivers for all this family of wireless cards
16:29:36 <JasonWoof> herkforth's editor displays the definition of the word under the editor's cursor
16:29:38 <JasonWoof> no mouse
16:29:43 <I440r> fpc had a linking feature in the editor. if you put cursor on a word and hit the right key it would open the right file in the right place so that you could see/edit the definition
16:30:08 <Raystm2> thanks JasonWoof.
16:30:32 <JasonWoof> yeah, I've got a key to jump to the definition too
16:30:58 <Raystm2> I was just saying, thats pretty sexy.
16:31:03 <JasonWoof> fronds has the jump key, but doesn't display the definition in the default (implemented) view
16:31:09 <I440r> i dont know if i want to do an editor in isforth. i was planning on have ed/edit/e or what ever launch what ever editor was in $EDITOR
16:31:10 <JasonWoof> yeah
16:31:30 <Raystm2> JasonWoof do you word-complete as well?
16:31:37 <JasonWoof> herkforth does
16:31:42 <Raystm2> cool cool
16:31:45 <JasonWoof> it's not that useful for saving typing
16:31:53 <JasonWoof> but it's really nice to see that you've spelled something right
16:31:59 <Raystm2> I see.
16:32:05 <JasonWoof> or to have visual feedback about whether that name exists already
16:32:10 <I440r> the one thing i DO like about this laptop is that the screen is slightly recessed. closing the lid isnt going to wear scratches into the display from the keyboard over time
16:32:13 <JasonWoof> (eg when you're trying to write a new word)
16:32:13 <Raystm2> ya
16:32:16 <Raystm2> ya
16:32:32 <Raystm2> I440r cool.
16:33:04 <I440r> that always annoys me to see keyboard scratch marks and indentations in the nice new display lol
16:33:51 <I440r> i need to write a nice large application in isforth so i can time its compiles on modern machines better lol
16:34:07 <I440r> i dont HAVE 4 megs of source to compile... i cant see if it would take longer than 1 second or not :P
16:34:11 <Raystm2> anything in mind?
16:34:18 <Raystm2> hehe 
16:34:21 <I440r> a multi user dungeon
16:34:29 <Raystm2> ok.
16:35:00 <I440r> coded in forth where ppl who are logged in  can be either a player, a dm OR a developer
16:35:01 <Raystm2> there is a very slow #forthmud here.
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16:35:38 <I440r> i think futhin started that, he got interested in forth because of a mud he was working on that was SORT of forthlike
16:35:47 <I440r> it wasnt HIS. he was just looking at it
16:35:57 <I440r> not sure futhin had done any development in any language at that time
16:36:05 <I440r> he does ruby on rails now
16:36:33 <slava> oh he's one of THOSE
16:37:04 <I440r> lol
16:37:07 <I440r> he is now :)
16:37:21 <I440r> hey. at least he is now actually doing development.
16:39:54 <I440r> i believe he is even being paid to do it
16:40:17 <slava> i woudln't use ruby unless there was money involved
16:41:34 <Raystm2> futhin likes it.
16:41:44 <Raystm2> I havn't seen Ruby in years.
16:42:14 <Raystm2> Back then it was described as Python-like and I already had Python, so... ignore.
16:42:23 <slava> its better than python
16:42:32 <Raystm2> I'm told that now as well. 
16:43:02 <Raystm2> Futhin says the Rails package makes things very quick to create.
16:43:14 <Raystm2> Very few lines of code.
16:47:51 <I440r> sounds like drag and drop coding. or do i mean point and click coding lol
16:49:07 <Raystm2> I think you may be right. I don't know for sure. 
16:50:02 <Raystm2> But, does seem logical to me that there are a great many design patterns already well described after ten years of internet collective interaction.
16:51:07 <Raystm2> The masses prove what they understand and the coders give it to 'em again and again.
16:51:57 <Raystm2> I suppose that is the reason i'm reading so much about a library.fs at c.l.f.
16:51:58 <I440r> pity forth cant get that sort of a following
16:52:04 <Raystm2> Ya.
16:52:57 <Raystm2> My favorite new thing is something called PhotoTourism and ...
16:53:45 <Raystm2> Photosynth. 
16:53:51 <Raystm2> sorry had to look it up. 
16:54:08 <Raystm2> http://www.uwtv.org/programs/displayevent.aspx?rID=8282&fID=497
16:54:25 <Raystm2> there is a description and a movie of the thing in action.
16:54:35 <Raystm2> facinating.
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16:58:13 <Raystm2> The cool thing about it is that a photograph contains the exact location and angle that a photographer is at when they take a picture.
16:58:50 <Raystm2> With just two pictures, a 3d model develops.
16:59:37 <Raystm2> with a collection like flicker, you get a lot of information.
17:00:38 <Raystm2> This thing can build instant Myst like worlds but in actual smooth motion 3d.
17:00:50 <Raystm2> I see total immersion very soon.
17:02:13 <Raystm2> I can only imagine what it can do to a film of consecutive but moved slightly frames.
17:02:54 <Raystm2> That's not mentioned in the movie, but I can see the potential.
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18:51:32 <slava> Quartus_: is that our friend gavino?
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20:51:04 <Quartus_> that's him, slava
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