00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.01.28 01:39:35 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 01:46:45 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:54:30 --- join: Jules__ (n=jjacobs@cp550544-a.landg1.lb.home.nl) joined #forth 01:58:14 still think the bridge analogy is a bad one - at the design phase, there are similarities, but at implementation, you're putting together one tightly coupled cohesive structure - it has to be in order to bear weight - good software is lot more loosely coupled and abstract - it's physically impossible to change the material a bridge is made of without tearing down the whole bridge - with software, it's easier - each component can be reimple 02:01:12 the only proviso is that the design must be solid - and if it, the implementation is disposable 02:01:27 --- part: Jules__ left #forth 02:01:27 if it = if it is 02:32:05 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 03:46:44 --- join: zpg (n=user@90.241.26.221) joined #forth 03:47:04 salut 03:57:00 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:57:16 --- join: arke (n=chris@pD9E04F19.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:57:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 04:12:25 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 04:55:10 --- quit: segher ("Reactor leak") 04:59:48 --- join: Raystm2- (n=NanRay@ppp-70-248-35-240.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 05:02:00 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:02:13 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-167-047.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 05:05:14 --- join: jacereda (n=jacereda@81-202-227-62.user.ono.com) joined #forth 05:31:17 --- quit: zpg (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:10:58 --- quit: crest_ ("Leaving") 07:21:59 --- quit: jacereda (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:29:32 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:29:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:30:54 grub_booter, analogies are never exact, or they wouldn't be analogies. The bridge-building analogy is close enough to make plain the absurdity of building each component out of different materials -- even if the resulting components meet specification. 08:41:04 :-) - yeah, but the point is that the novel analogy works better - chapters can be rewritten drastically and the end result can be the same 08:42:34 but agreed - the problem with analogies is that they shouldn't be taken literally - but they often are - and if there's confusion, use another one... 08:43:08 If you prefer the analogy of writing a novel -- they aren't written by a team. 08:43:38 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p548944A0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:56:36 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:01:43 But supposing they were -- would you let each chapter be written in a different language? 09:27:36 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:27:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 10:45:20 sigh - and software development following the bridge analogy produces a bridge? 10:45:21 ;-) 10:45:29 good afternoon 10:47:10 hi crc, how are you? 10:47:20 pretty good 10:48:18 how are your fingers? 10:50:23 Quartus: j/k - i've said before that the novel analogy works at the chapter/synopsis level - one designer (or mebbe a couple) author that, then the 'chapters' get written by other members of the team... doesn't matter though - as long as they stick to the plot 10:50:55 virl, a little stiff, but tolerable 10:52:03 Quartus: and i wasn't arguing for language proliferation for the sake of it - only when it made sense to do so... 11:00:27 silly argument anyway :-) - it's a personal preference thing - i like scripting languages and see them as a means to gain rapid productive code - i also like writing finely tuned c and c++, and my childhood affection for forth has recently been reawakened - i'll use any and all to achieve a goal (like in my current project - c++/boost for media framework plugins - python for app level development) 11:01:22 btw. grub_booter how did you get to forth? 11:05:01 when i was a kid, i wrote a forth compiler - i've not had much use for it since, but i've been in increasingly using rpn techniques for video editing components - got me curious about forth as the natural language for the filter graph building mechanism - hence, i've been looking into forth again 11:08:54 rpn for video editing components? what does that mean exactly? 11:11:27 well, in it's current incarnation, you can do stuff like: file.avi filter:greyscale play (to take a video and play it as black and white) 11:12:39 aha, wow. forth or something similiar? 11:13:42 forth inspired - rpn stuff prototyped in python though (Quartus will be rolling is eyes round about now ;-)), and the media framework itself is c++ 11:14:13 it's open source - there are fairly complete docs if you want to take a look at them ;-) 11:14:33 well, fire up the link 11:15:14 www.sf.net/projects/openlibraries for the main project (warning, it's a bitch to build... [esp. on windows and os/x - linux isn't so bad]) 11:16:13 http://openlibraries.cvs.sourceforge.net/openlibraries/openlibraries/doc/oml.odt?view=log for the docs on oml (open office only i'm happy to say ;-)) 11:17:11 oml being the openmedialib (the component i was working on) and the rpn stuff sits at the top of that as the main interface for the apps 11:17:56 prototyped in python, well when forth would be able todo that so easily. 11:18:11 yeah - think so too 11:19:30 i'm still deliberating over what's best to do though - a c++ implementation of the rpn stuff might work more naturally (since it'll allow the plugin development to also employ the rpn interface for inner filter graph components) 11:21:12 there are a few non-forth conventions in the stack syntax though... 11:24:32 like, when you specify a filter, properties are assigned like: filter:something name1=value name2=value (eg: to simulate a picture in picture type of thing: video1.avi vide2.avi filter:composite rx=0.1 ry=0.1 rw=0.1 rh=0.1 [places video2 in the top left corner of video1]) 11:27:49 http://users.pandora.be/acp/jbatch/16.jpg shows it being used to do a crazy 16 video composite :-) 11:28:50 http://users.pandora.be/acp/jbatch/scrubbing.png and this one shows the rpn stuff being used at an app level (client/server - server runs the rpn stack, client provides videos and filters to run on it) 11:29:03 * grub_booter is apparently talking to himself... 12:02:46 should also be pointed out that the scrubbing (client/server) stuff was developed in the equivalent of about 2 working days (and even if i reimplemented the rpn stuff in a non-python implementation, they would work unaltered - just as re-implementing either client or server component would have no impact on the other) 12:02:58 * grub_booter practices what he preaches ;-) 12:24:47 --- join: tgunr (n=chatzill@70-41-217-184.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 12:44:22 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 13:01:12 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0525.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 13:10:31 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:21:59 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 13:26:32 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:54:11 --- join: BirdReynolds (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 13:54:53 --- quit: BirdReynolds (Client Quit) 14:05:41 --- join: jacereda (n=jacereda@81-202-227-62.user.ono.com) joined #forth 14:07:59 Anyone following the BASE-related discussion on clf? 14:08:02 http://forth.pastebin.ca/331444 14:09:41 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 14:10:47 uff, the stack diagrams are a bit wrong :-) 14:26:38 --- join: Oyd1111 (n=oyd111@89.0.188.47.dynamic.barak-online.net) joined #forth 14:50:34 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 14:57:33 --- join: tgunr (n=chatzill@70-41-217-184.cust.wildblue.net) joined #forth 14:58:00 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:03:47 --- join: snoopy_17 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-190-022.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:04:24 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 15:04:30 --- nick: snoopy_17 -> Snoopy42 15:13:40 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:13:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 15:26:59 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 15:26:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 15:33:55 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 15:40:22 --- quit: ayrnieu (Connection timed out) 15:41:38 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E04A76.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 15:42:15 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:51:27 --- join: Oyd1111_ (n=oyd111@89.0.132.249.dynamic.barak-online.net) joined #forth 15:53:29 --- quit: grub_booter (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:55:39 jacereda, I followed it slightly 15:55:58 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.12.171) joined #forth 15:58:22 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:06:33 --- quit: Oyd1111 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:32:26 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 16:35:36 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 17:10:05 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:10:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 17:24:39 --- quit: nighty (Remote closed the connection) 17:39:37 --- quit: Raystm2- ("Should have paid the bill.") 17:40:27 Hey. 17:42:51 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@ppp-70-248-35-240.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:48:52 Hi ray. 17:50:39 Hi Quartus. 17:50:54 how goes it? 17:51:01 Much needed windows restart. :( Trojan isolated. 17:51:04 I'm afraid I never did quite get a handle on what you were asking about last night. 17:51:20 Turns out I didn't either. :) 17:55:12 I'm having the darnest time trying to figure out what is making the "double-click" sound every ( time spacing undetermined but the period is longish ) don't know how long. There! did ya here it! just then! doh!! 17:55:26 don't know 17:55:27 hear 17:56:55 driving me nuts I tell ya. Chinese Water Torture has nothing on this. Remember Kachanski on Red Dwarf with the pipes? 17:57:15 No. 17:58:14 Familure with Red Dwarf? 17:58:25 The first book was funny. I found the tv show lacking. 17:59:17 I liked it. 18:13:15 different tastes! 18:23:53 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:31:05 --- join: grub_booter (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 19:13:00 I enjoyed watching the first season of red dwarf very much 19:16:24 --- quit: jacereda (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:20:12 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 20:13:07 --- quit: segher (Nick collision from services.) 20:13:18 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-164-019.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:15:04 it may be the book spoiled me for the show 21:05:31 yeah 21:05:43 it's hard to watch a rendition of a good book 21:06:05 The first episodes were pretty much straight from the page, and it didn't translate very well. 21:06:18 oh 21:06:29 But if you'd never read the book -- that might help. 21:06:36 yeah 21:06:41 I love the character interraction 21:07:08 and the characters themselves 21:07:20 Typically Americans appreciate British humour for different reasons than the British, too. 21:09:23 huh 21:09:29 :) how's that? 21:09:37 what's the difference? 21:11:11 Hard to summarize quickly. But every culture has their humour. I used to go watch the lesser-known Jackie Chan flicks at a movie house in Chinatown, and the Chinese audience members laughed at completely different spots than I did. :) 21:12:33 interesting 21:12:48 and great that it's entertaining for both groups :) 21:12:56 I got so as I could tell when they were going to laugh and why, but the same things weren't as funny for me. 21:13:10 cool :) 21:13:36 sometimes I laugh when others don't 21:13:52 but I've figured it as being personal, not cultural 21:15:22 I remember laughing pretty loud at one point during Wedding Crashers when nobody else did. iirc the theatre was over half full 21:15:38 heh 21:16:01 fortunately it didn't bother my girlfriend :) 21:16:25 Good thing. 21:18:01 speaking of which... 21:18:26 I noticed in that relationship that I really really enjoyed seeing her embarassed 21:18:31 heh 21:18:46 and she was the same way about me 21:19:40 now I've been wondering for quite some time if most people/relationships are that way 21:20:56 I expect it's a spectrum. 22:33:59 --- quit: Crest (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 22:34:04 --- join: crest_ (n=crest@p54897075.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:06:04 gooie morgen! 23:08:01 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 23:08:44 Dobre jitro! 23:09:26 :-) 23:10:07 ASau: what time zone are you in anyway? 23:14:02 Moscow 23:14:14 That is MSK. 23:15:24 ah - interesting 23:15:56 Nothing interesting, I hate this town. 23:17:39 must be pretty cold there at this time 23:17:53 No. 23:18:22 hmm - unseasonably warm there too, huh? 23:19:01 They (http://weather.yandex.ru) say it's -10 deg. today. 23:19:45 yikes - that's cold :-) 23:19:46 Right, it got colder in several last days only. 23:20:13 It'd been like in March or April before. 23:20:48 No snow and green grass. 23:21:46 -10 is usual temperature for this season. 23:22:02 it's almost warm here at the moment, 7 degrees - we had a cold spell for a few days last week, but otherwise, warm 23:22:41 Actually, -15 ... -20 is more appropriate, but Moscow is 23:22:41 huge town, so it's always warmer here. 23:23:20 sure 23:25:23 Do you know if all these "int16_t" are standard and what header file provides them? 23:25:46 in c? stdint.h 23:26:04 Thanks. 23:26:13 windows doesn't have them though.. 23:27:09 or at least, vc7 doesn't - no idea about later versions 23:27:15 I don't mind. 23:27:31 If Cygwin provides them, that's enough. 23:27:48 cool - no problem there 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.01.28