00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.01.23
00:10:54 <grub_booter> claw
00:26:49 <JasonWoof> forcep
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00:37:09 <grub_booter> video experiments continue :-) - added a couple of experimental filters - http://users.pandora.be/acp/jbatch/scrubbing.png 
00:47:37 <JasonWoof> looks clean
00:54:22 <grub_booter> playing with some more cpu intensive stuff (to justify the threading) - playback of HDV is straining my laptop here, but with threading, it works likes a charm [it's dual core]... reverse playback is also added and working :-)
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01:55:44 <JasonWoof> grub_booter: cool
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09:18:33 <I440r> brb, i have to switch to using a better irc client. this one wont let me paste more than ONE line!
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10:00:49 <Ray_work> hi Joshua.
10:00:55 <Ray_work> Quiet today.
10:00:58 <tathi> hi Ray.
10:01:01 <tathi> is it?
10:01:11 <tathi> hmm, yeah
10:01:33 <Ray_work> the only thing anybody has said all day is i440r getting a new client.
10:03:07 <zpg> hey chaps.
10:03:35 <tathi> hi zpg
10:03:45 <tathi> I don't have much to say either.
10:03:59 <tathi> So I guess I'll say it anyway. :)
10:04:42 <tathi> Oh; I did knock another third off the run time of the meteor code last night.
10:05:01 <tathi> And decided that was all I'm going to bother with. :)
10:06:10 <tathi> I need to finish rounding out my PPC assembler so I can get my Forth up and running.
10:06:41 <tathi> Need to cut my hair too.
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10:07:57 <tathi> Is that enough inane monologue from me for the day? :)
10:08:06 <ttuttle> Quartus: omgwtfbbq.  I just saw the original "Don't Copy That Floppy" movie.  What were they smoking?
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10:18:30 <Ray_work> ttuttle?
10:18:34 <Ray_work> tathi :) 
10:18:38 <ttuttle> Ray_work: Ray_work?
10:18:51 <Ray_work> tathi: I need a hair cut too.
10:18:58 <Ray_work> Floppy movie?
10:19:04 <ttuttle> Ray_work: Yeah.  It's absurd.
10:19:19 <Ray_work> what is it?
10:19:33 <ttuttle> The "Don't Copy That Floppy" movie?  It's on YouTube, as is everything ever made.
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10:19:55 <Ray_work> thanks :)
10:19:55 <ttuttle> It's a pathetic video made by the Software Publisher's Association (many years ago) attempting to convince people not to engage in casual piracy.
10:20:08 <Ray_work> oh.
10:20:13 <Ray_work> sure I've seen it.
10:29:43 <tathi> I also discovered yesterday that Ertl had a paper on a portable C-library interface in Euroforth 2006
10:30:42 <tathi> I've heard Quartus say that Ertl wasn't happy with any existing interfaces, but hadn't been able to find anything saying exactly what he didn't like.
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11:01:41 <JasonWoof> hello and welcome to People Are Stupid Day
11:01:59 <tathi> oh?
11:02:13 <Ray_work> Hey, That
11:02:23 <Ray_work> 's everyday in these parts :)
11:02:31 <JasonWoof> i click save as and save it, i can't find it anywhere.  any ideas?  is there
11:02:31 <JasonWoof> a way i can search for it?  what's the right way to save it to my comp?
11:03:06 <Ray_work> windows?
11:03:11 <JasonWoof> yeah
11:03:29 <JasonWoof> I know the windows search program sucks ass, but at least try it
11:03:31 <Ray_work> start button, search, fill in the name and search
11:03:35 <Ray_work> ya.
11:03:49 <tathi> I'd think that's actually pretty common.
11:03:50 <JasonWoof> or do "save as" again, and put it somewhere useful this time
11:04:07 <Ray_work> good enough JasonWoof, I've done that :)
11:04:26 <tathi> I still haven't figured out how to get my Mom to understand hierarchical filesystems, or that things get saved exactly where you tell it to save them.
11:04:50 <JasonWoof> yeah
11:04:58 <Ray_work> Video prof.
11:05:13 <JasonWoof> I'm just a little annoyed that I got an e-mail about it
11:05:19 <JasonWoof> instead of her asking someone close at hand
11:05:26 <JasonWoof> and I got other stupid e-mails
11:05:35 <JasonWoof> just too big a dose for me.
11:05:42 <Ray_work> http://www.videoprofessor.com/
11:06:02 <JasonWoof> a proffessional programmer asked me to re-install php with mbstring support
11:06:04 <tathi> yeah
11:06:22 <JasonWoof> which is already installed
11:06:35 <JasonWoof> and "enabled" according to phpinfo
11:06:55 <Ray_work> free money.
11:07:16 <Ray_work> I know your not that kind of guy. Me neither.
11:07:36 <JasonWoof> other crap too
11:08:07 <JasonWoof> nothing really that bad, but too much at once
11:08:28 <JasonWoof> I don't understand how someone could think they have an e-mail address
11:08:32 <JasonWoof> then I tell them they don't
11:08:38 <JasonWoof> then they still think they have it
11:08:47 <Ray_work> heh
11:09:36 <JasonWoof> I got an e-mail containing something like "I'd like to switch to my foo@example.com address"
11:09:48 <JasonWoof> to which I reply "You don't have that address, you have bar@example.com"
11:10:46 <JasonWoof> so today for the third time, I write and say "I can set up foo@example.com for you if you like, I can even make foo@example.com and bar@example.com go to the same e-mail box, but which one do you want to check?"
11:11:08 <JasonWoof> and I keep getting e-mails like "OK, why isn't it set up yet?"
11:11:44 <Ray_work> customers. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
11:12:11 <JasonWoof> I think it's bizare that so much time is spent helping people use their e-mail programs
11:13:06 <JasonWoof> seems like I spend more time on that than the rest of the hosting business
11:13:15 <JasonWoof> maybe that's why webmail is becoming so popular
11:13:37 <JasonWoof> companies push for it because it cuts their support staff down by 90%
11:34:19 <Ray_work> makes sense
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12:37:37 <zpg> Quartus: ping.
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12:42:25 <Ray_work> zpg hi.
12:42:36 <Ray_work> wb
12:42:47 <zpg> howdy, thanks. i'll be dashing off again in a sec.
12:42:54 <Ray_work> cool. :)
12:42:58 <zpg> how've you been keeping Ray_work?
12:43:05 <Ray_work> I'm good. 
12:43:08 <Ray_work> can't complain
12:43:13 <zpg> glad to hear it.
12:43:40 <zpg> right, time to jet off again... cheers for now.
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12:43:49 <Ray_work> Havn't seen Neal all day, btw.
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13:05:58 <JasonWoof> woh, sucks when a key sticks that runs a program
13:06:39 <JasonWoof> my key that runs xmms --fwd --play stuck
13:06:52 <JasonWoof> took me a little while to figure out why the playlist was going nuts
13:07:13 <JasonWoof> usually it's because I moved the songs the playlist refers too
13:15:43 <Ray_work> heh
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13:31:25 <Quartus_> hey
13:31:59 <Ray_work> Hey Quartus. zpg was just looking for you but had to dash.
13:32:06 <slava> Quartus: i have another improvement in the reverse-complement benchmark performance
13:32:15 <slava> its down to 12 seconds
13:33:04 <Quartus_> decent
13:33:29 <slava> 4 times slower than java and sbcl
13:34:06 <Quartus_> keep at it :)
13:34:27 <slava> its good enough for now. i'm going to fix a few things in the x86 backend and start work on arm
13:36:14 <Quartus_> what do you need to do for arm? Your kernel is primarily C, as I recall?
13:36:37 <slava> i have to port the compiler
13:37:09 <Quartus_> does it generate machine code?
13:37:13 <slava> yes
13:37:35 <Quartus_> fun
13:37:41 <slava> the C part is the interpreter and memory manager
13:38:08 <Quartus_> ah.
13:38:29 <slava> i could get rid of the interpreter at some point, and switch over to meta-compilation
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14:03:17 <jacereda> anyone using FreeBSD or OpenBSD?
14:13:21 <Quartus_> I occasionally use freebsd
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14:18:45 <I440r> ok, whats a good irc client to use in windows?
14:18:58 <I440r> xchat and mirc are NO go's
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14:19:09 <slava> write one
14:19:14 <I440r> i dont support nag ware and xchat should be 100% free
14:19:42 <I440r> slava sure. give me about 20 years of FORCED study of the bullshit ill need to know in order to support the worlds most fucked up operating systems
14:19:53 <I440r> and thats an asshole answer anyway
14:20:54 <Quartus_> more of a luddite answer.
14:21:21 <I440r> i want an irc client.  wanting one doesnt mean i want to write one
14:21:28 <I440r> any more than i want to build a new car just to drive to work
14:21:45 <Quartus_> You have already ruled out the obvious choices.
14:21:57 <slava> hydrairc
14:22:05 <I440r> mirc is nagware. when he removes the nag screen ill register it
14:22:25 <I440r> xchat should never have been turned into shareware
14:22:40 <slava> try hydrairc
14:23:24 <I440r> i saw. im looking at it now
14:25:35 <Quartus_> ... Waiting to hear what's the show stopper with that one :)
14:26:16 <I440r> well for a start it looks alot more complex than it needs to be. the "how to connect" doesnt JUMP out at you. but thats not a show stopper
14:26:46 <slava> i think a usable irc client might be something like 100 lines of code in factor
14:27:08 <Quartus_> the rf one is fairly short too as I recall
14:27:10 <I440r> useable doesnt == good
14:27:21 <slava> the rf one is not usable
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14:27:32 <slava> i mean a proper one with multiple channels, etc
14:27:32 <Quartus_> no? Never tried it.
14:27:39 <slava> and a gui
14:27:40 <[1]I440r> i dont like the 384568374 windows this pops up all over the map when you connect either
14:28:13 <Quartus_> I'm using a java client from here. Jmirc
14:28:17 <[1]I440r> and i dont need TWO places showing the user list for a given channel
14:28:18 <Quartus_> free afaik
14:28:49 <[1]I440r> i had to click one windows X 10 times before i got rid of all the sub windows it contained
14:29:07 <[1]I440r> thats WAY too much crap scatterd all over the place - and MOST of it is repeat info. no i dont like this client
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14:29:27 <slava> really, any irc client does the job
14:29:38 <Quartus_> indeed
14:29:46 <I440r> i dont need something as complex and information overloaded as hydra
14:29:54 <slava> will your ForthRite come with IRCRite?
14:30:01 <I440r> but i want something a little better than bitchx
14:30:05 <slava> NewIrcForthOpSys
14:30:19 <Quartus_> nor do you need some platonic unachievably ideal client.
14:30:51 <Quartus_> hell, even this mobile one is adequate, albeit clumsy.
14:33:33 <Quartus_> slava, is that a proceeedural word?
14:34:39 <JasonWoof> I'm reasonably happy with irssi now that I have it all set up right
14:34:53 <I440r> seems like xchat has a build thats free -
14:35:12 <JasonWoof> eh?
14:35:15 <JasonWoof> xchat is GPL
14:35:17 <I440r> which would make IT the ideal candidate.
14:35:22 <I440r> xchat for windows is shareware
14:35:35 <JasonWoof> who cares?
14:35:36 <I440r> i believe it stops functioning after 30 days
14:35:55 <JasonWoof> so, build it yourself
14:36:11 <I440r> non trivial. and someone already did so
14:36:17 <Quartus_> apparently that would take 20 years.
14:36:20 <I440r> silverex.org
14:36:27 <I440r> quartus fuck off
14:36:29 <JasonWoof> right, that's the point of the GPL
14:36:45 <JasonWoof> there will be no fucking off here
14:36:53 <I440r> not interested in scripting 
14:36:56 <I440r> :)
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14:37:05 <JasonWoof> ahh :)
14:37:16 <Quartus_> indeed
14:37:25 <JasonWoof> I considered responding "you fuck off" but I figured that would make him stay
14:38:23 <JasonWoof> I thought that was the whole point of the source being available to people who don't want to actually do anything: they don't have to, because someone will have already
14:38:32 <Quartus_> so, can somebody recommend a free calculator for windows? Calc is out, and so is any other one that includes + and the digit 5.
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14:39:06 <JasonWoof> the only calculator program I know of is xcalc
14:39:14 <slava> i use factor for calculations
14:39:19 <JasonWoof> which I don't use, since I have a nice calculator on my desk
14:39:23 <grub_booter> bc and dc are available with cygwin and mingw
14:39:39 <JasonWoof> I've got a TI-30Ka
14:40:16 <JasonWoof> it's served me well. I broke the screen once by whacking it really hard with a cat toy :)
14:40:41 <slava> i rarely need to perform arithmetic calculations
14:40:42 <grub_booter> i had a ti30 when i was a kid...
14:40:44 <JasonWoof> TI was nice enough to fix it for ~30% less than buying a new one
14:40:50 <slava> i can't imagine why i'd ever need to own a real calculator
14:41:05 <JasonWoof> oops, that's TI-30Xa
14:41:27 <JasonWoof> I think I got for math class
14:41:37 <grub_booter> i do - quite frequently - can't imagine buying a calculator again though :-)
14:41:42 <JasonWoof> or, rather math text-books
14:42:04 <JasonWoof> when I still went to a class, it was only 8th grade, and they didn't allow calculators
14:42:29 <JasonWoof> I don't "need" it since I could do the same with eg xcalc
14:42:34 <JasonWoof> but it's much more convenient
14:42:51 <JasonWoof> it's got those nice little labels right on the buttons
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14:43:30 <JasonWoof> and the display doesn't obscure, or get obscured by other programs on the computer
14:43:33 <grub_booter> find bc suits me better (or even an interative python or gforth session) - nice to see all the steps rather than just the result
14:44:11 <JasonWoof> I don't like bc's default accuracy/rounding stuff
14:44:36 <JasonWoof> when I say "1 / 2", 0 is not the answer I'm looking for
14:44:38 <grub_booter> bc -l works fine for me
14:44:57 <JasonWoof> ahh, that works
14:45:12 <grub_booter> and the . is pretty useful...
14:45:23 <JasonWoof> how do you do log?
14:46:10 <grub_booter> l( x )
14:47:07 <JasonWoof> ahh
14:47:20 <grub_booter> yeah - bit cryptic at times
14:47:31 <grub_booter> you can define functions and import them though
14:48:05 <JasonWoof> is there some reason why the function names are so abbreviated?
14:48:22 <JasonWoof> shame there's not acos() and such
14:48:28 <grub_booter> i dunno - it's an annoyance
14:48:59 <grub_booter> the primitives are there, so you can always build from them
14:49:32 <JasonWoof> eh, not worth the trouble
14:49:45 <grub_booter> well, i'm sure someone else already has :-)
14:49:45 <JasonWoof> if I didn't have a calculator I'd tinker with it
14:50:39 <JasonWoof> yay :) I have the money to pay my end-of-the-month expenses now :)
14:51:26 <JasonWoof> too often lately I've only gotten it on my last paycheck before the 1st.
14:53:46 <grub_booter> http://x-bc.sourceforge.net/extensions_bc.html
14:56:33 <JasonWoof> sweet
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14:58:49 <JasonWoof> hrm... how do I use it?
14:59:02 <JasonWoof> bc man page doesn't seem to mention extension files or config files
15:00:43 <JasonWoof> so I do: export BC_ENV_ARGS="-l ~/.bc/extensions.bc"
15:02:20 <JasonWoof> ok, that seems to work, except the ~ doesn't expand
15:02:54 <grub_booter> $HOME probably should
15:03:59 <grub_booter> mebbe alias bc="bc -l $HOME/.bc/extensions.bc"
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15:06:10 <JasonWoof> I don't like aliases
15:06:17 <grub_booter> :-)
15:06:29 <tathi> huh.  google groups apparently changed their look sometime in the last 6 hours or so...
15:06:29 <grub_booter> i have one - alias vi=gvim
15:06:46 <JasonWoof> heh
15:07:01 <grub_booter> some habits are hard to break :-)
15:07:06 <Quartus> tathi, looks like the beta interface went life
15:07:06 <Quartus> live
15:07:25 <JasonWoof> I did this: echo -e '#!/bin/bash\n\nexec rxvt -e vim "$@"' > ~/bin/gvim
15:07:46 <grub_booter> that'd work :-)
15:08:27 <JasonWoof> brilliant. looks like they're still working on it. I went to groups.google.com and searched for comp.lang.forth and got an error message
15:08:39 <JasonWoof> "An error occurred while processing your request..."
15:08:54 <JasonWoof> "Please try again in a few moments."
15:09:47 <Quartus> worked here
15:09:48 <JasonWoof> I really like running vim in the terminal
15:10:04 <JasonWoof> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth won't load for me
15:10:40 <JasonWoof> the search function on that page works though
15:10:49 <Quartus> comes up here fine.
15:10:50 <slava> must be because its in java
15:13:10 <tathi> grrr.  they removed the preview button.
15:13:16 <slava> hey tathi
15:13:29 <tathi> hi slava
15:13:56 <tathi> JasonWoof: try http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/topics maybe?
15:14:07 <tathi> oh, it redirects
15:14:09 <tathi> never mind
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15:17:40 <tathi> guess I might have to get a real newsreader and see if my ISP has servers
15:17:56 <Quartus> never a bad idea
15:20:42 <JasonWoof> wow, this is funny: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/3a27c0ab654d1c90/a6f0928999405e38?lnk=gst&rnum=1#a6f0928999405e38
15:23:30 <Quartus> heh
15:36:45 <I440r> is that a werty post ?
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15:55:42 <JasonWoof> I440r: no, it's making fun of werty
15:56:00 <JasonWoof> somebody ran eliza with input coming from a werty post
15:56:02 <I440r> ok
15:56:12 <I440r> but any resposes to werty are just feeding the trolls
15:56:41 <I440r> as long as theres any trafic on clf thats generated by werty at all (including responses to him) then clf is not worth reading
15:56:52 <I440r> actually, weven without werty clf has limited value
15:57:04 <JasonWoof> heh
15:57:09 <Quartus__> I find it qwuite useful
15:57:38 <I440r> there are a few good posters
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16:52:09 <Raystm2> hi.
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17:23:16 <Raystm2> c.l.f question: anyone, please: Before I open something from Mi5vic...@mi5.gov.uk, should I even open it?
17:24:01 <tathi> hehe
17:24:05 <tathi> nope
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19:06:08 <Quartus> hey.
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21:16:31 <Raystm2> hi.
21:16:59 <Raystm2> Liking the conversation about the shootout. Neat work tathi.
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.01.23