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00:54:24 * grub_booter has worked something out and come up with a whole new line in commercial surgery in the process...
00:55:35 <grub_booter> see, babies always come awake at night... and that's no real surprise, since the first 9 months are spent deprived of light...
00:56:20 <grub_booter> so, the new surgical process would involve surgically implanting a light source in the womb which is controlled by an external timer
00:57:06 <grub_booter> alternatively, you can do an el cheapo at home model by strapping a 100 watt bulb onto the mothers belly
00:57:40 <grub_booter> (home surgery being a dangerous thing...)
01:04:44 <JasonWoof> 100w is a lot of heat
01:06:41 <grub_booter> yeah - you can do it cheaper i guess...
01:06:47 <grub_booter> ;-)
01:13:09 <grub_booter> could try and sell the idea to apple and market it as the iwomb - would be lcd based of course, and would also involve the internal reception of drm laden educational video which simulates natural light
01:16:26 <grub_booter> mebbe with a subliminal 'this way is out' message in order to circumvent breach positions 
02:24:15 <JasonWoof> grrrr
02:24:45 <JasonWoof> I can't figure out this damn stunnel program
02:25:01 <JasonWoof> they have examples on their website on how to do exactly what I want
02:25:03 <JasonWoof> except they don't work
02:25:24 <JasonWoof> the new version won't let you set (*&@#$@#$ anything with command-line options
02:25:33 <JasonWoof> everything has to have a freaking config file
02:26:00 <JasonWoof> I've been able to find 0 examples with the new syntax on how to set up a client
02:26:09 <JasonWoof> the man page has three examples on how to run a server
02:29:42 <JasonWoof> maybe it can't do it anymore
02:49:18 <grub_booter> hmm - the ubuntu packaged stunnel lists a whole scree of command line args...
02:51:02 <grub_booter> eg: imap tunneling - stunnel -d 993 -l /usr/sbin/imapd -- imapd
02:51:53 <grub_booter> there are two versions provided in the repo though - v3 and v4 (i have v4 here)
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02:58:08 <JasonWoof> yeah, I guess for v4 they got rid of the commandline arguments thing and force everybody to create config files
02:59:03 <JasonWoof> I figured it out eventually. I looked through the mailinglist for examples
02:59:12 <JasonWoof> turned out I had to put a section header in my config file
03:00:37 <JasonWoof> no idea what that does, or why I have to put it in there
03:01:07 <JasonWoof> seemed to work
03:01:12 <grub_booter> cool :-)
03:01:32 <JasonWoof> I used nc to connect to my ssl-wrapped smtpd
03:01:54 <JasonWoof> seemed fine
03:02:01 <JasonWoof> it said helo and responded to SMTP commands
03:02:18 <JasonWoof> but I don't know how to send crlf with my keyboard
03:02:41 <JasonWoof> the annoying part is I can't send with my esmtp
03:02:45 <JasonWoof> but I think esmtp is broken
03:02:46 <grub_booter> hmm - not sure how you do that nc either
03:02:48 <JasonWoof> I hope I hope
03:02:57 <JasonWoof> nc doesn't do ssl
03:03:04 <JasonWoof> stunnel does
03:03:17 <grub_booter> meant for the cr/lf thing
03:03:35 <JasonWoof> so you set up an stunnel daemon locally, that listens for an unencrypted connection locally, and when it gets one, connects to a secure remote server
03:03:39 <JasonWoof> oh
03:04:05 <JasonWoof> yeah, if my terminal doesn't mess them up, I think cr and lf are supposed to be 
03:04:11 <JasonWoof> heh
03:04:17 <JasonWoof> ^J and ^M
03:04:35 <grub_booter> yeah - assuming it doesn't do any silly under the hood mappings :-)
03:04:47 <JasonWoof> I don't know which is which either
03:04:57 <JasonWoof> I gotta find a better mail-sender library
03:05:37 <JasonWoof> I had a weird problem with it where it was thinking some message I was trying to send was a bounce message, and therefor refused to send it to multiple addresses
03:05:42 <JasonWoof> couldn't figure out why it thought that
03:05:59 <JasonWoof> and I couldn't for the life of me get the script that was trying to send the mail to stop trying to send to multiple addresses
03:06:03 <JasonWoof> that was a frustrating day
03:06:12 <JasonWoof> today was a bit frustrating, but more productive
03:06:17 <JasonWoof> I wrote my own password checker utility
03:06:25 <JasonWoof> took really long
03:06:38 <grub_booter> mail sucks - i'm happy just to use gmail these days :-)
03:06:56 <JasonWoof> gmail is pretty slick
03:08:04 <grub_booter> my old account is so riddled with spam that i've just abandoned it (my wife has her stuff coming through that box on an alias and since she refuses to switch to gmail, she acts as my spam filter :-))
03:08:57 <JasonWoof> many people are very reluctant to switch
03:09:00 <JasonWoof> I've felt that
03:09:12 <JasonWoof> It really isn't a big deal unless your e-mail is printed in a book
03:09:37 <JasonWoof> all your distant friends and relatives will get your new address from a mutual friend
03:10:16 <JasonWoof> I have a client who unfortunately does have his e-mail printed in a book
03:10:35 <JasonWoof> which he makes his living selling, so he has a very good reason not to switch
03:10:40 <grub_booter> yeah - it filters out eventually - annoyingly for me, i have the old one in a lot of oss source files...
03:10:40 <JasonWoof> despite hundreds of spams a day
03:11:06 <JasonWoof> hmmm
03:11:16 <JasonWoof> yeah, that's rough. people won't find your new one
03:11:35 <grub_booter> get quite a few direct mails relating to those - i can blitz em all, but that'll take a while to distributte
03:11:39 <JasonWoof> I'll have to think about that
03:11:56 <JasonWoof> dunno if I put my e-mail in any of my software
03:12:57 <JasonWoof> I prefer to have a web page about the software, and have a contact method on the page (preferably a contact form)
03:13:12 <JasonWoof> if the contact changes, update the site
03:13:17 <JasonWoof> and if the site moves, people will still be able to find it
03:13:18 <grub_booter> well, patches i've submitted to other projects also get tagged with my [typically obfuscated] email address - harder to track those down
03:13:25 <JasonWoof> through google or freshmeat or whatever
03:13:38 <JasonWoof> yeah, certainly
03:13:53 <JasonWoof> I haven't submitted any terribly significant patches to anything
03:14:51 <grub_booter> since i don't work in a terribly significant area of oss, i guess that's true of me too :-)
03:16:03 <grub_booter> (i had some patches accepted to ffmpeg back in the day - there's even a source file with my copyright in there :-) - but it's a real edge case thing - am sure it'll be first up against the wall when the revolution starts :-))
03:17:40 <JasonWoof> hehe
03:17:50 <JasonWoof> I also have more options, since I run my own mail server
03:18:05 <grub_booter> yeah - that'd help i guess
03:18:11 <JasonWoof> eg, for my newest hosting client I set up auto-responders for her old e-mail addresses
03:18:32 <JasonWoof> they say basically "sorry, we had to shut these accounts down, please contact us through our website: http..."
03:19:36 <grub_booter> according to my isp's (draconian) contract, i'm not allowed to host any kind of server on this end (i'm also restricted to a single machine [not imposed of course] and an upload/download limit [which is imposed... sigh])
03:20:22 <grub_booter> unfortunately, there's only one competitor here for broadband and they're just as bad
03:21:48 <grub_booter> off topic - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lilo_booter
03:22:58 <grub_booter> (lilo_booter is my preferred nick - but freenode doesn't let me use it any more - not surprising, and i'm not going to ask them to change policy)
03:28:43 <JasonWoof> yeah, same here
03:28:57 <JasonWoof> the only port that actually seems to be blocked on my home connection is 25 (smtp)
03:29:08 <JasonWoof> but I try not to use 80 either
03:30:57 <grub_booter> yeah - ports > 1024 work here (i occasionally host a web server here) 
03:32:18 <JasonWoof> oh, I've always got apache running
03:32:27 <JasonWoof> I do my website development locally
03:32:36 <JasonWoof> and it's handy for transferring files to folks
03:33:28 <JasonWoof> I've never had much luck transfering files with messaging protocols
03:34:03 <grub_booter> don't tend to use apache much - custom/embedded servers tend to come up from time to time in the work i do though
03:36:25 <grub_booter> actually i originally got into the video side things via a web project which i was knocking up - got a bee in my bonnet to provide video streaming services, and found i needed video editing capabilities first (been an interesting sideline though :-))
03:37:31 <grub_booter> 5 years later, i still haven't achieved what i set out to do, but i have had quite a lot of contracts on the back of it :-)
03:38:26 <JasonWoof> :)
03:38:58 <grub_booter> hmm - longer actually - part of it started end of '99 when i got married - also wanted to edit the wedding videos and found that linux was lacking in that department (and haven't got round to that one either :-))
03:39:52 <JasonWoof> I vaguely remember some site getting excited about some linux video editing software a year or two ago
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03:41:28 <grub_booter> it comes and goes - it's getting use in broadcast arenas and the capabilities are there... it's just that writing an app to house it is a tedious task
03:43:03 <zpg> hi.
03:43:13 <grub_booter> hi zpg
03:43:18 <zpg> hey grub_booter 
03:47:16 <grub_booter> zpg - gonna spam again :-) - http://easyurl.net/max.yates
03:49:31 * grub_booter needs to get back to the hospital... 
03:49:51 <zpg> :)
04:06:28 <JasonWoof> YAAAAA
04:06:34 <JasonWoof> I found out what's been going wrong
04:07:01 <JasonWoof> how they got all that spam out through my system a few months ago
04:07:12 <JasonWoof> I missed a parameter to qmail-smtpd
04:07:25 <JasonWoof> so it was using /bin/true for the password checker
04:07:30 <JasonWoof> instead of the sub-program
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04:36:29 <Quartus_> hey
04:39:48 <JasonWoof> morning Quartus_, tathi
04:40:06 <JasonWoof> I got my encrypted, authenticated, smtp service up!
04:40:07 <Quartus_> what's new?
04:40:19 <JasonWoof> only took me 12 hours
04:40:25 <Quartus_> sweet
04:40:41 <JasonWoof> including upgrading my home computer mail sender
04:40:48 <JasonWoof> no more stupid esmtp for me
04:42:04 <JasonWoof> man I can't believe that missing parameter
04:42:20 <JasonWoof> you can pass a password checker to qmail-smtpd
04:42:28 <Quartus_> just read that. Funny
04:42:29 <JasonWoof> and if you do, it uses it, and allows relaying if it returns 0
04:42:56 <JasonWoof> for some reason which is beyond me, the specification for the password checker requires that you pass it a sub-program to run when the password checking succeeds
04:43:13 <JasonWoof> probably so you can do whatever nifty crap you want, like pop-before-smtp or something
04:43:27 <JasonWoof> but if you don't want to do anything fancy, you just pass /bin/true as the sub-program
04:43:46 <JasonWoof> so I was running: qmail-smpd my_fancy_checker /bin/true
04:44:04 <JasonWoof> turns out the checker is the 2nd parameter, not the first
04:44:09 <JasonWoof> so it was runing /bin/true as the checker
04:44:14 <Quartus_> heh
04:44:28 <JasonWoof> it's supposed to be: qmail-smtpd hostname checker sub
04:44:40 <JasonWoof> I don't have the foggyest idea what it uses hostname for
04:45:15 <Quartus_> perhaps so you can run more than one mailserver on a host?
04:45:20 <JasonWoof> the man page says it passes "the password or challenge  derived  from  hostname" to your password checker
04:45:59 <tathi> hey all
04:46:00 <JasonWoof> qmail-smtp doesn't do tcp stuff. it runs under tcpserver (or presumably xinetd or whatever)
04:46:10 <Quartus_> ah
04:46:15 <Quartus_> hi tathi
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05:08:36 <nanstm> hi JasonWoof
05:08:38 <nanstm> hi tathi
05:08:40 <nanstm> hi Quartus
05:10:03 <JasonWoof> hi hi
05:10:49 <zpg> hey.
05:11:55 <Quartus> hey
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05:53:45 <Quartus_> hey hey hey :)
05:59:54 <Ray_work> Good morning, sir! Hope you have a productive day.
06:06:37 <Quartus_> thanks; hope you do too!
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06:30:58 <Ray_work> I will. :) 
06:31:04 <Ray_work> Much to catch up.
06:31:16 <Ray_work> Attitude, much better.
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08:04:27 <Ray_work> Somebody! pull the plug! 
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08:20:14 <ASau> !away Evening, night, morning...
08:20:37 <ASau> Sorry, wrong channel.
08:42:40 <Ray_work> :)
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09:54:33 <Ray_work> "There's a kind of hush..."
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14:36:25 <Quartus_> hey
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14:48:57 <Ray_work> hi Quartus.
14:49:14 <Quartus_> how goes it?
14:49:38 <Ray_work> busy till about 30 minutes ago. Yourself?
14:49:46 <Quartus_> same.
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14:57:34 <Ray_work> Were you productive?
14:58:56 * Ray_work want's to blame his lack of any real code since September on his medication. But...
14:59:29 <Ray_work> Fact of the matter is, I need to learn to discipline myself.
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15:01:31 <Quartus_> Long phone calls dump the irc connection on this gadget :)
15:09:00 <Ray_work> Shame.
15:09:28 <tathi> Yeah, that's a serious flaw there. :)
15:09:47 <tathi> I bet you can't IRC and talk on the phone at the same time either.
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15:10:11 <jacereda> hi
15:11:16 <tathi> hey
15:11:19 <jacereda> anyone willing to try building a new forth? I need some feedback for different setups...
15:11:35 <tathi> written in...?
15:11:48 <jacereda> Forth but primitives are C
15:12:09 <tathi> Ah.
15:12:12 <jacereda> only builds on unix ATM
15:12:15 <tathi> I could try it then.
15:12:29 <tathi> Linux PPC here, so had to make sure it wasn't in x86 assembly language. :)
15:12:45 <jacereda> me too :-)
15:12:48 <jacereda> http://code.google.com/p/fina-forth/
15:12:57 <jacereda> you'll need scons and libffi
15:13:29 <tathi> think I've got both.
15:13:44 <tathi> I recently installed gforth from CVS, and I think I build libffi for that.
15:14:35 <tathi> check out the SVN, or did you have a tarball I was supposed to try?
15:14:44 <jacereda> svn
15:17:19 <tathi> seems to work here.
15:17:47 <tathi> scons check=1 finishes with "scons: done building targets."
15:18:04 <Ray_work> hi 
15:18:08 <jacereda> cool
15:18:09 <Ray_work> going home. 
15:18:14 <Ray_work> see ya from la casa.
15:18:44 <jacereda> tathi, do you mean it passes?
15:20:40 <tathi> jacereda: I believe so.  doesn't crash or anything.  But it scrolled a lot of text by, so if it just produced error messages I may have missed them :)
15:21:32 <jacereda> ok, there is probably an error in um/mod
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15:24:12 <jacereda> anyone with a x86 or mips unix willing to try it?
15:27:23 <Quartus> tathi, right about that
15:27:38 <crc> jacereda, in just one minute
15:27:51 <jacereda> ok, thanks
15:30:27 <tathi> jacereda: you mean that test in test/finatest.fs which shows that um/mod doesn't check for overflow?
15:31:32 <jacereda> yes
15:38:21 <crc> it seems to work ok on linux/x86
15:38:44 <jacereda> great, which gcc version?
15:38:56 <crc> 4.1.0
15:39:11 <crc> I can test under an older version of gcc as well, if you want
15:39:26 <jacereda> yes, please
15:40:12 <jacereda> last time I tried, it generated crappy code with jumps at the end of each primitive
15:40:16 <jacereda> gcc3 I mean
15:40:33 <jacereda> the same problem the gforth folks had
15:42:38 <crc> gcc3 has many flaws
15:43:26 * crc is installing scons on the debian box...
15:43:58 <jacereda> it is still at an early stage, don't bother to install... it won't find .fs files, the search path isn't implemented
15:47:41 <jacereda> it's a bit unusual in that it doesn't use an image file, it saves the original .elf with the image embedded
15:48:16 <jacereda> that means that the executable is big, but with gzexe it gets to an acceptable size
15:48:31 <crc> reva does something like that as well
15:48:34 <Quartus> big is how big?
15:48:48 <jacereda> depends on how much dictionary space you want
15:48:54 <jacereda> it's configured for a 256 k dictionary
15:49:08 <crc> 300k, with debugging symbols
15:49:13 <Quartus> eep
15:49:21 <jacereda> resulting in 285300 stripped under ppc
15:49:26 <Quartus> eep
15:50:33 <jacereda> the dict size can be changed in the tconfig.fs file
16:01:32 <crc> the debian box is taking its time while trying to build obj/i386-dict1.s
16:02:45 <jacereda> crc, then it is broken
16:03:05 <crc> ok
16:03:52 <crc> it fails with gcc 3.4.4
16:04:21 <jacereda> can you send me the resulting obj/finac.s ?
16:05:41 <jacereda> jacereda at gmail 
16:09:41 <crc> sent
16:10:08 <jacereda> thanks
16:10:23 <crc> results were the same with 3.3
16:10:54 <crc> 2.95 refused to compile, giving an error in ffi.h about a lack of 64-bit datatypes
16:11:31 <jacereda> hmmm
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16:17:05 <jacereda> crc, this should fix that: 
16:17:07 <jacereda> env.Append(CPPDEFINES=[['__LONG_LONG_MAX__', '9223372036854775807']])
16:17:25 <jacereda> after the other env.Append(CPPDEFINES line
16:17:28 <jacereda> in SConstruct
16:18:18 <jacereda> I guess it will be better to just require gcc4 ;-)
16:21:44 <JasonWoof> LOL, I got an invitation to a party which his this on it:
16:21:45 <JasonWoof> Prepare to enter an alternate dimension (please dress accordingly).
16:22:02 <tathi> make sure you have your towel. :)
16:22:18 <crc> ok, with that and removing the -fno-reorder-blocks, it builds and seems to run ok under 2.95.4
16:24:22 <jacereda> isn't -fno-reorder-blocks supported in 2.x?
16:24:43 <crc> not in the 2.95 build I have
16:26:27 <jacereda> ok, thanks a lot
16:26:34 <jacereda> time to sleep
16:26:37 <jacereda> bye all
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16:31:34 <JasonWoof> lol
16:31:47 <JasonWoof> I might just bring a towel
16:35:21 <tathi> "Hey, you sass that hoopy JasonWoof?  There's a frood who really knows where his towel is." :)
16:37:04 <Raystm2> If you are about to enter another dimention, your not hitchhiking, you're dimention jumping. Your towel is just as important in that case, far as I can tell.
16:38:03 <Raystm2> You can use it as a lion cloth if you go to the past and as a loin cloth if you go into the future.
16:38:30 <Raystm2> yikes. 
16:38:34 <Raystm2> never mind. 
16:38:40 * Raystm2 goes back to sleep.
16:39:08 <JasonWoof> yeah :)
16:39:15 <JasonWoof> I love the definition af "sass"
16:41:02 <tathi> "know, be aware of, meet, have sex with"?
16:41:05 <tathi> or something like that?
16:41:11 <JasonWoof> yeah :)
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18:35:11 <Quartus> Hey Slava.  I see you reddeddited me.
18:35:43 <slava> yeah. i've been posting links to various forth implementations, to educate the masses
18:35:51 <slava> i hope you don't mind.
18:36:51 <Quartus> No, not at all.
19:30:07 <Quartus> how are things?
19:33:18 <slava> huge performance improvements
19:34:53 <Quartus> very good!
19:35:10 <slava> i got the time to read a 400,000-line file from 93 seconds to 3 seconds. you probably think this is really lame and slow
19:35:36 <Quartus> it is slow, but at least no longer glacial. :)
19:38:47 <slava> i'm going to write an equivalent java program
19:39:08 <Quartus> what does it do with each line?
19:39:22 <slava> nothing. basically, i removed some overhead from the i/o code.
19:39:36 <slava> but i have another benchmark that does stuff to lines
19:39:39 <slava> i'm going to test it shortly
19:39:48 <slava> string manipulation is fast now, though.
19:39:58 <Quartus> Good.
19:41:37 <slava> 846 ms
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20:12:59 <slava> Quartus: any idea why bigforth does so poorly in this benchmark? http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=revcomp&lang=all
20:13:47 <Quartus> So poorly?
20:13:57 <slava> bigforth: 247 seconds
20:13:59 <slava> sbcl: 0.8 seconds
20:14:08 <slava> oh, wait
20:14:15 <slava> there are two bigforth implementations; one of them is very fast
20:14:43 <slava> ah, the first one uses read-line, the second uses a buffer. seems read-line is slow.
20:15:28 <Quartus> They both use read-line.
20:16:59 <Quartus> perhaps it's emit vs type
20:18:46 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:00:01 <Quartus> Hey, werty agrees with i440r about NOT
21:00:56 <slava>   Watch me strike fear and agony in the hearts of those who cant think Forth .... 
21:01:00 <Quartus> Are you serious !!
21:01:00 <Quartus>  NOT has nothing to do  with a TEST !!!
21:01:00 <Quartus>  NOT is a simple verb , it inverts ( Ones compliment )
21:01:11 <Quartus> (werty's words, not mine)
21:02:46 <Quartus> Personally I'm happy with either  : not invert ;  or  : not 0= ;  as I only use it on well-formed flags.
21:03:59 <slava> i use 1's complement inverse occasionally.
21:04:14 <Quartus> I do occasionally too, but I'm happy with INVERT in those cases.
21:04:21 <Quartus> Makes it very clear.
21:04:47 <Quartus> oh, 1's complement? What for?
21:05:23 <slava> to clear bits, for instance
21:05:26 <slava> in bitfields
21:05:40 <Quartus> not 2's complement?  You are working the overflow back in?
21:05:59 <Quartus> INVERT is a bitwise-complement.
21:09:10 <slava> that's what i mean
21:09:27 <Quartus> ah ok. We're on the same page then.
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.01.18