00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.01.17 00:23:06 --- join: ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) joined #forth 00:37:42 * grub_booter has a new baby boy :-D 00:38:11 congratulations! 00:43:05 cheers :-) 00:43:41 my new garage office also has a new floor (but i guess i should be less excited about that...) 00:44:56 heh 01:20:03 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 01:35:32 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:43:18 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 01:45:09 grub_booter: congrats :) 01:45:36 cheers :-) 02:05:17 I'm happy you do, and happy I don't :) 02:06:34 heh 02:07:56 I'm personally not that big on babies, but I see many people derive great joy from them. Despite the frequent excretion of several bodily fluids 02:09:36 can appreciate that :-), though tbh, the bigger downside is the sleep deprivation 02:11:03 --- join: arke (i=chris@x65.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 02:11:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 02:16:27 well, yeah. I am so far from willing to commit anywhere near that much time to kids 02:16:39 not sure I'm willing to commit that much time to anything 02:16:53 I have a hard enough time working enoug 02:16:56 h 02:17:59 gah! must sleep 02:18:01 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 02:18:29 heh - i remember sleep... 02:18:43 ... anyway, gotta scoot - errands to run 02:24:59 --- join: snowrichard (n=guest@12.18.108.130) joined #forth 02:26:43 hi 02:58:32 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:00:03 --- quit: Jenn5 (Remote closed the connection) 03:45:55 --- join: arke (i=chris@x75.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 03:45:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 03:59:46 --- join: zpg (n=user@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk) joined #forth 04:00:03 hi. 04:07:28 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:27:16 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 04:27:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 04:28:11 hi Quartus 04:28:31 hey 04:28:41 how're you today? 04:28:59 hanging in thanks. You? 04:30:33 overtired but that aside, well. i've been meaning to mention that i looked at the "things a computer scientist never talks about" knuth book. quite interesting, not my cup of tea really. too many fluffly Q/A sessions. the calligraphy reprinted from 3:16 looked quite stunning in places. 04:31:19 knuth has an eye for typography to be sure. 04:33:52 certainly does. and friends in high places. zapf was on-board in a big way. 04:34:19 also interesting, knuth ended up doing a heap of beta-testing for photoshop 04:34:45 neat 04:34:58 yeah, i'd venture nothing too special, but interesting as ever from knuth. 04:35:11 yes. 04:35:42 any interesting books crop up over your way? 04:36:32 'selected papers on computer science', also knuth. Overviews for the layman. 04:37:00 neat -- any particular papers stand out? 04:37:15 I've only just started it. 04:37:44 ah okay; well, let me know if anything strikes you if it's not too much trouble. 04:37:55 will do :) 04:49:22 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:49:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 04:51:07 hi tathi 04:51:13 morning 04:51:52 got some actual January weather here today :) 04:52:10 got down to about 10 Fahrenheit last night. 04:53:06 where exactly is "here"? 04:56:19 Eastern Pennsylvania 04:56:28 ahh ok. 05:09:18 --- join: arke (i=chris@x120.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 05:09:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 05:10:43 --- quit: zpg (Remote closed the connection) 05:11:07 --- join: zpg (n=user@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk) joined #forth 05:12:01 --- quit: zpg (Remote closed the connection) 05:12:56 --- join: zpg (n=user@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk) joined #forth 05:25:55 hi 05:26:02 hey 05:26:13 supposed to snow here, haven't seen any yet 05:26:41 east texas 05:28:58 get my camcorder tommorrow. Picked up a 4 pack of tapes today 05:36:59 camcorders work with tapes now? 05:37:07 in my day it was all digital and whatnot. 05:37:33 more seriously -- do analogue camcorders still sell well? 05:52:29 the price was right --- analog or not 05:52:34 $139 05:55:52 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 05:57:12 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 05:57:33 hi tim 05:58:04 hi 05:58:07 hello 06:05:40 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 06:28:34 --- join: Jules_ (i=Jules@cp550544-a.landg1.lb.home.nl) joined #forth 06:36:07 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 06:42:16 some more inform 7: "Check calling it on when the player does not wear the headset (this is 06:42:20 the hands free is the only way to call rule):@ 06:42:28 sorry -- screwed that up. 06:42:45 "Check calling it on when the player does not wear the headset (this is the hands free is the only way to call rule):" 06:42:46 there. 06:42:58 posted to usenet. 07:24:37 what is that? 07:26:57 i think when the player-character is wearing a clothing-tagged headset, it does whatever comes after the colon. 07:27:01 the parentheses confuse me. 07:29:28 this is more a demonstration of the weird effects of natural language programming i guess. doesn't make for clean reading, but does feel very fluffy and ambiguous at the same time. 07:34:16 * zpg heads off 07:34:19 --- quit: zpg ("be back later") 07:57:29 --- quit: Jules_ ("Ik ga weg") 08:01:33 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:06:10 --- quit: tathi ("bbl") 08:25:41 --- join: gulliver (n=gulliver@212.8.198.137) joined #forth 08:25:49 --- quit: gulliver (Client Quit) 08:30:23 --- quit: timlarson_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:30:39 --- join: timlarson__ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 08:31:58 --- join: timlarson___ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 08:41:29 --- join: arke (n=chris@pD9E07EDC.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:41:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 08:45:14 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 08:45:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 08:49:50 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:13:13 --- quit: timlarson___ ("Leaving") 09:13:35 --- join: timlarson___ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:17:13 --- nick: timlarson___ -> timlarson_ 09:53:51 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:57:34 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E0596B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:14:19 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:25:33 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-30-169.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:25:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 12:41:04 --- join: jackokring (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 12:57:59 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-54438354.lns4-c8.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 13:06:30 hi 13:17:20 Hi Marc. How's the natural language programming comming? 13:19:30 Hey Ray -- oh that was just an example from Inform 7, the IF language. Came across it on usenet and thought it an apt example of how confusing pseudo-English syntax can be. 13:19:50 Great example. 13:19:58 Proves your point well. 13:20:22 Well, nice features drop out too. I believe the language fails to scale. 13:20:31 (Conceptually) 13:21:09 I see. 13:21:10 For example, a non-programming friend of mine made some basic IF very snappily. 13:22:01 When it came to adding a bit of interesting functionality on the other hand, he expected to be able to express it in English based on what he'd read in the manual. Drop in a synonym here and a comma in there and you generate a compile error. 13:22:22 It's analogous to the problem some people (including myself) have with Perl. 13:23:26 Nelson et al. are working to implement as many variations as possible, but they can probably only go so far. I personally feel it's an interesting approach but a bit of a waste of time. 13:23:36 Hopefully I'm wrong. 13:23:39 :) 13:23:55 Anyway, how're you? 13:23:59 Nelson, is that Ted Nelson? 13:24:14 Graham Nelson. 13:24:24 Wrote the Inform language. 13:24:34 I'm fine. Hooky today from work. Snow day. A very rare event in North Texas. 13:24:37 Ty. 13:24:55 Snow huh? I think, appropriately, snowrichard mentioned that. 13:25:14 "hooky" meaning you stayed at home? 13:25:16 Ya, he's in East Texas and he should be getting his now. 13:25:41 That's correct. Wasn't sure if that was in your glossary... 13:26:09 Added :) 13:26:11 :) 13:27:09 The highways between work and home were either officialy closed at some point this morning, or the accidents were so bad that I didn't think risking my vehical was prudent. 13:27:27 ahh, the melodious sound of my radiator 13:27:31 perrrrfect 13:27:43 I was just about to whine about it being cold in here 13:27:50 heh 13:28:02 * Raystm2 is getting new central heat and air soon. 13:28:23 Currently I have to plug the darn thing in to get heat and unplug it to stop it. 13:28:49 Convection? 13:28:58 ya. 13:29:43 JasonWoof: you on oil? 13:32:30 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 13:32:52 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:32:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 13:33:37 hey Quartus 13:33:45 hey 13:33:58 Hi Quartus. 13:34:11 what's up? 13:34:22 heating. 13:34:29 Heating bills. 13:34:52 mine's electric. 13:35:04 Got a back up fireplace? 13:35:21 --- quit: neceve ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad") 13:35:21 Or a gas range atleast? 13:35:45 cat. 13:35:56 as in meow? :) 13:36:02 right :) 13:36:10 How many btu's a cat? 13:36:18 I think we have gass 13:36:22 4. 13:36:24 furnace in the basement 13:36:47 I've got one of those old-fassioned metal-finned radiators that makes all kinds of hissing noises 13:37:06 Steam. :) 13:38:21 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 13:38:28 Hey arke. :) 13:38:39 hi 13:39:49 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:39:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 13:40:47 hi slava 13:40:51 Hi slava. 13:40:52 hey 13:41:06 Werty attacking Factor today? 13:41:18 i'm flattered! 13:41:31 I suppose you should be. hehe. 13:41:32 is he? I haven't had a chance to see 13:42:03 I havn't read it yet, but Factor is in the title so... 13:42:22 what a maroon 13:42:52 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 13:44:23 lol 13:44:39 maroon? is that a luddite moron? 13:44:48 bugs bunny 13:45:15 I didn't catch that yesterday, and I still thought it was funny 13:45:17 It's somebody that has been left on an island by themselves purposely by the constituancy. 13:47:50 I think Bugs Bunny used to call idiots maroons, if memory serves. 13:47:59 i'm not sure where werty got this idea that C/C++ programmers oppose industrial mechanization of weaving looms. 13:48:56 I don't know that werty has any fully-formed ideas. 13:49:10 just wait until Forthrite is released. it will blow you away. 13:49:59 Sure he does. He knows how to write a post and he's very obviously the worlds greatest systems programmer. Just cuz he brags doesn't make him wrong, does it? 13:50:36 he's faster than chuck moore, and leaps tall buildings in a single bound 13:50:55 moore isn't fast 13:51:17 And, he's good for an at least hours conversation/day. 13:51:28 JasonWoof: well stated. 13:52:36 * JasonWoof leaps large puddles in a single bound 13:52:38 You know how ERather was saying that Chuck would come in the next day having thrown all previous work out the window... I don't think he's done that with cf yet, so, slow indeed. 13:53:17 I like throwing stuff out the window 13:53:41 present company excluded of course 13:54:33 I was thrown out of the window of the Windjammers Club on base in San Diego by a Marine once. 13:54:53 It's okay, I landed on my head. 13:55:20 Turned out to be a case of mistaken identity. 13:55:31 Thought I was doing his gf. 13:59:35 ... 14:00:15 I'm having a hard time coming up with a linear response 14:00:23 or, rather picking one 14:00:37 see, I wouldn't want to land on my head 14:00:39 --- quit: neceve ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad") 14:00:51 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 14:00:55 There is no responce. He was summarily court mashalled. 14:01:07 also, I think it's very strange that guys beat people up for being intimate with their lover 14:01:32 It makes a certain kind of sense if they raped your lover or something 14:01:57 And this is why you are a person that uses your brains for you living and not your braun. 14:02:10 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:02:14 the trouble is your lover isn't doing what you want. no point in taking that out on other people 14:02:26 Absolutely. 14:10:31 First time I came to Fort Worth was because a gf of mine was nearly raped. I was 18 and AWOL and thougth I'd find the bastard. Hell of an adventure. Make a great story someday, I think. 14:30:10 --- quit: neceve ("IRC is just multiplayer notepad") 14:31:26 --- part: juri_ left #forth 14:37:20 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 14:41:36 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 14:43:36 --- quit: jackokring (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:01:14 grrr... stupid certificates 15:01:23 I got an ssl certificate for *.jasonwoof.com from cacert 15:01:29 works great 15:01:31 so, not gift certificates, then. :) 15:01:33 except not for jasonwoof.com 15:01:55 works for ssl.jasonwoof.com www.jasonwoof.com white.jasonwoof.com etc 15:01:58 but not jasonwoof.com 15:02:07 Needs the . 15:02:21 fooey on the . 15:02:31 can I get a certificate on *jasonwoof.com? 15:02:42 feh, I'll live 15:02:44 That I don't know. 15:03:34 now I can put my clients' admin panels at https://.jasonwoof.com/ 15:03:52 Keen. 15:04:12 and they can either "accept certificate forever" or add the cacert root certificates 15:05:01 gee slava 15:05:01 Bait you into C-Lib !! Then ya gotta learn C to debug !! 15:05:19 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:16:31 yup, my plan has been exposed 15:16:36 i'm just trying to get everybody to learn C 15:16:49 you just won't learn from werty, will you? 15:18:45 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 15:38:34 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving") 15:39:32 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:40:41 --- quit: neceve (Client Quit) 15:41:43 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:42:02 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:43:18 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:44:34 --- quit: neceve (Client Quit) 15:44:40 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 15:45:06 --- join: edrx (n=Eduardo@201.5.11.72) joined #forth 16:33:07 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 16:33:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 16:45:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:46:56 --- quit: edrx (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 16:47:54 so what's up? 16:48:06 working on the optimizer. 16:48:32 pessimizers are much easier to write 16:48:37 yup 16:49:06 going for speed, or size? 16:49:28 both, with a slight preference to speed. 16:49:59 one day to generate turnkeyed apps? 16:50:25 perhaps one day. 16:54:53 Pessimizers. hehe. 16:55:12 I recall the first Quartus Forth release, which promised standalone executables -- my users were astonished that it really did work! :) 16:56:00 --- join: molokai (i=molokai@13.Red-81-40-192.staticIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 16:56:05 guess they thought I might have been over-reaching :) 16:56:45 you're only targeting one platform, though. 16:56:56 i have { windows linux macosx } * { x86 x86-64 ppc } and soon arm 16:57:22 yes. One platform, 5 versions, two cpus. 16:58:15 Accomodating a number of vendor-specific OS customizations. 16:58:20 ah 16:58:32 i'd need to implement cross compilation first. 16:58:41 right now you can only generate code for the target you're running on. 16:58:46 so not as wide-ranging as yours. 16:59:38 right, you need a host-agnostic object mage, maybe 16:59:50 image, rather 17:00:30 I like mage there. More comedic value. 17:00:54 :) 17:03:04 Besides, when werty publishes, ya'lls work will go by the wayside. Relics of a past of poor choises at least at the mid levels. 17:03:25 * Raystm2 doesn't quite know what that means. 17:03:36 What the heck are these mid levels? 17:04:45 * Raystm2 goes back to his movie. 17:09:53 I do not know. 17:10:08 something C doesn't have, probably. 17:10:23 or has the wrong kind of. 17:10:35 or has, but just suckers you in with 17:10:48 damn that C!!! 17:11:08 he's stopped referring to C++ as C +. 17:11:28 he says he's the world's fastest system programmer 17:12:00 it only takes a few days for him to code ForthRite... why should he start now? 17:12:04 I have to assume that he is the slowest programmer in the world, but the resulting system will be the world's fastest :) 17:12:08 he'll start when he wants to. 17:12:28 Ya 17:15:18 Personally, I need to finish a project. 17:15:47 * Raystm2 is having trouble prioritizing. 17:20:29 --- part: molokai left #forth 17:26:49 divide and conquer 17:29:50 how do you check a password against an encrypted password 17:29:56 encrypt it 17:30:03 compare 17:30:05 with crypt() 17:30:15 if that's what's being used to encrypt the stored one 17:31:48 --- join: gav-on-arch9 (n=gschuett@4.38.41.141) joined #forth 17:31:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +b *!*@4.38.41.* 17:31:48 --- part: gav-on-arch9 left #forth 17:31:56 yay! 17:34:05 well, it's just that htpasswd2 returns a totally different encrypted password each seccond you run it 17:34:50 it uses a salt 17:34:53 ok, well, I have no context for what you're doing. In the broadest possible terms, to check a password against an encrypted one, you encrypt it with the same function originally used. 17:35:15 are the first two characters in the crypted password the salt? 17:35:30 so I can just pass those same ones to crypt() and I should get the same result? 17:35:42 i don't know how apache works 17:35:57 I don't know either. 17:36:41 htpasswd2 is only outputting a 13 character crypted password 17:37:18 would seem odd if you had to call crypt a couple thousand times to find the right salt 17:38:22 I'm writing my own checkpassword program 17:38:36 I was thinking it'd be convenient to use httpasswd2 to create my password file 17:38:50 but I guess if I don't know how to read that file, it's not so convenient 17:45:18 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 18:12:03 I see something that says you can force htpasswd2 to use crypt() 18:14:11 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-179-050.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:20:50 looks like the salt is constant, or should be 18:21:04 I'm just poking around, mind you 18:25:14 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 18:25:41 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 18:32:09 Quartus: crypt() is the default 18:32:16 and you can pass -d to tell it to use crypt() 18:32:27 I thought it had a custom md5 dealie for cross-platformness 18:32:29 but it still makes different hashes unless you run it twice in the same second 18:32:31 htpasswd2 -nbd foo bar 18:33:10 right, crypt() isn't the default on all platforms 18:33:18 that doesn't sound productive. It has to have the original salt+key in order to match passwords itself. 18:33:40 -d Use crypt() encryption for passwords. The default on all platforms but Windows, Netware and TPF. 18:34:07 yeah, seems like a lot of busywork to guess the salt 18:34:18 there's 4096 different possible salts 18:34:21 thing is, you shouldn't need to guess it. Something else must be going on. 18:35:23 oh, crap 18:35:26 the first two are the salt 18:35:29 the salt is usually stored along with the encrypted password 18:35:35 Right. 18:35:58 The returned value points to the encrypted password, a series of 13 printable ASCII characters (the first two characters represent the salt itself). 18:36:06 -- man crypt 18:36:07 There you go. That makes sense. 18:36:13 goodie 19:15:51 --- join: LOOP-HOG (n=jason@71-38-142-199.ptld.qwest.net) joined #forth 19:15:54 "hi 19:16:03 "what's the word? 19:16:04 hi LOOP-HOG 19:16:24 what's new? doing Forth again? 19:16:50 "I might go and do it some in awhile 19:17:06 "I have some other projects and things to do though 19:17:41 "how goes the Forth biz? 19:17:53 ticking along nicely. 19:17:58 "great! 19:18:17 "its cool that some people make $$ in forth 19:18:39 well, even better that my customers go on to write their own apps, and make more $$ :) 19:18:48 ":^) 19:19:01 "is there a cell phone version of the Palm? I could check 19:19:10 "that way I could have Forth on my Fon 19:19:17 There is, the Treo. Watch out, they did one that runs Windows Mobile, you want to avoid that. 19:19:37 factor will be running on windows mobile Real Soon Now 19:19:52 cool 19:20:55 "does anybody know how goes the forth chip thing at Intellasys? 19:21:16 Nothing here. 19:21:27 They put out a 'demo'. 19:21:46 "you mean the development tools at their site 19:21:53 a sort of simulator, runs on Standard Forth 19:22:44 That's the last I heard 19:22:56 I think that ColorForth is neat, but don't have the time to try to get my head wrapped around it, its kinda different 19:22:57 man, yourspace.com is being sat on by some stupid registration hording outfit 19:23:10 I wanted to see a good parody 19:23:25 I don't think colorForth is neat. 19:23:25 "full of fools 19:23:29 "no? 19:23:45 "there are instances where you DO want to leave the heads in 19:23:58 hmm? 19:24:05 there are instances where you want ascii, words with > 5 characters, etc 19:24:33 "what about some imbedded system which might have to last in the field 20 years, and for some reason you need to decompile the code that's running on it? 19:24:39 LOOP-HOG: writing your own irc client? 19:24:47 LOOP-HOG, what does that have to do with colorforth? 19:25:30 I'm in the habit of appending ' " ' to the beginning of my strings, because I spend some time in a MOO 19:25:32 "duh 19:25:35 crap 19:25:44 heh 19:25:51 hehe 19:26:22 Quartus, only that there can be differen ttypes of Forth, and that's ok fine 19:26:39 sure. Vive la difference. colorForth is still not 'neat' if you ask me. 19:26:47 it's curious what people think is unique about cf 19:26:50 'different' and 'good' are not the same thing 19:27:02 I'd listen to what you don't like about it Quartus. 19:27:22 we've had the conversation in here about 8 times in the last 8 weeks. 19:27:22 1) horrible interface 19:27:33 2) really hard to do simple things like print or input strings 19:27:36 Quartus: write a blog :) 19:27:37 3) badly written 19:27:38 Poorly designed. Poorly written. 19:27:44 4) mostly available just in binary 19:27:51 5) official binaries are ccorrupt 19:27:58 6) jeff fox doesn't think this or any of the above is a problem 19:27:59 7) jeff fox 19:28:18 lol :) I like 7 19:28:30 Had a conversation with fox (until he was a total jackass again) about the very fundamentdal poor design of the dictionary; names >5 chars collide. 19:28:48 i lost my respect for that guy when he told Quartus that only a programmer with below average IQ would find the <5 char name restriction a problem. 19:29:02 He actually said he looked at a bunch of colorForth source, and all of the names were 5 characters or less, so it wasn't a problem. 19:29:12 I haven't heard anything that stupid in at least a month. 19:29:39 don't forget he added a swipe at C and below average programmers, even though your post didn't mention either 19:29:46 maybe depends upon the application, the number of words, don't old Forth systems collide at <4? 19:29:57 slava, not forgotten. 19:29:59 old forth systems (pre-fig forth, iirc) use length + 3 chars 19:30:09 LOOP-HOG, not since the '70s was length+3 used 19:30:12 colorforth uses an unpredictable huffman coding 19:30:24 so you might collide at 4 chars, or you might collide at 7 19:30:31 but collisions start at 5. 19:30:38 weird 19:30:40 ah 19:30:44 4 is always safe 19:30:52 it gets pretty bad by 7 19:31:15 it's ridiculous. The huffman-encoding of characters, packed into 28 bits of 32-bit cells, is equally ridiculous. 19:31:20 One is built on the other. 19:31:39 So 'hello world' runs to 6 (or so) cryptic lines of colorForth bullshit. 19:31:55 the editor doesn't provide any way to input a counted string, does it? 19:32:00 And even then, won't display words that won't fit into a single cell (1-7 chars or so). 19:32:08 slava, the editor can't parse. 19:32:23 Moore himself said something about 'hello world'. He said, open a new block in the editor, and type 'hello world' into it. 19:32:35 i'd say the colorforth hello world has more redundant crap than a java hello world. 19:32:54 yup 19:33:44 what's the C function for comparing 2 strings? 19:33:52 strcmp or strncmp 19:33:55 preferably addr u 19:33:56 thanks 19:34:14 strncmp gives you something akin to c-addr u 19:34:49 memcmp might be more to your liking 19:45:44 It's not really Forth related, but the online 3D game world building system, Multiverse, has 8000 or more developers signed up for it 19:46:03 I don't know if it's possiable to drive it around with Forth, using it as the scripting language? 19:46:13 that might be kinda fun 19:46:16 find out! 19:46:34 Yeah 19:46:38 why don't I 19:50:14 what's multiverse? 19:52:50 http://www.multiverse.net 19:53:04 JasonWoof: how's fronds coming along? 19:53:06 its a system for creating online massive multiplayer games 19:53:19 fronds? 19:53:36 slava: I've started working on it a bit again 19:53:40 neat 19:53:44 what it is? what it does? 19:53:57 fronds is my current forth-like project 19:54:05 It has a really cool compiler 19:54:10 oh 19:54:22 it's a self-contained universe/OS 19:54:32 doesn't boot or anything, but it also doesn't interract with the outside world 19:54:37 except through the keyboard 19:54:39 and screen 19:54:45 hopefully tcp/ip at some point :) 19:54:48 no files or anything, except saving images of itself 19:55:28 interesting 20:03:36 JasonWoof: i'd be interested in trying it out when you decide to release something 20:04:39 slava: I'll let you know 20:04:45 at this rate it's months away 20:05:00 you can execute things now, but I'd like to make the editor usable first 20:05:07 browsing is neat, but you can't do anything with it yet 20:05:13 it looks like multiverse is Java and python 20:06:48 java gives me the creeps 20:07:24 in this case isn't the server the java part though? 20:07:45 http://update.multiverse.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=473&theme=multiverse 20:08:02 wouldn't this thing run faster if it was programmed in Forth, 20:08:08 i'd just rather use Forth anyway 20:08:21 is there a forth that's faster than java for numerical code? 20:09:11 perhaps swiftforth, iforth or vfx? 20:09:49 --- quit: segher (Nick collision from services.) 20:10:01 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-180-166.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:10:33 I mean a Forth crafted in assembly, yes 20:10:59 the language a compiler is written in rarely has bearing on the performance of code generated by said compiler 20:11:05 you could write an optimizing C compiler in bash, if you were so inclined 20:11:24 and isforth for example is written in assembly but it is quite slow 20:13:32 oh 20:16:22 I'm going to go and work on a project 20:16:28 I'll drop by again some time 20:17:47 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("Leaving") 20:18:17 so multiverse is set up to help people make mmorpgs? 20:18:27 what's the license? 20:41:46 --- mode: Quartus set -b *!*@4.38.41.* 20:41:58 inviting gavino? 20:42:23 he's on chanserv's hit list, so just clearing the ban list 20:42:25 no reason really 20:43:31 I would think many Forths, particularly native-code ones, are faster than java for normal floating-point stuff 20:44:08 depends on what cpu architecture you're talking about, really. 20:44:19 Does it? 20:44:49