00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.01.07 00:19:22 --- join: LOOP-HOG (n=jason@dialup-4.242.180.66.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net) joined #forth 00:19:25 "hi 00:23:39 --- quit: LOOP-HOG (Client Quit) 00:59:18 --- join: grub_boote1 (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 00:59:34 --- nick: grub_boote1 -> grub_booter 01:00:26 hi all - does anyone know of any video editing stuff done in forth? 01:09:00 asking cos i'm working on a forth-inpsired video editing toolkit (perhaps oddly, rpn stuff written in python, underlying framework in c++) - my forth is a bit rusty (haven't done much with it since i was 14) and i know what i have breaks a few rules (mostly deliberately) - i'd be curious to know a) if it makes sense to a forth developer, and b) if it makes sense to anyone else :-) 01:10:56 have a fairly detailed doc if anyone has a few minutes to discuss it - thanks in advance 01:22:39 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 01:26:28 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-1b50466189b46236) joined #forth 01:29:50 --- join: crest__ (n=crest@p548972FE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:38:51 --- quit: crest_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:39:39 --- quit: grub_booter (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:43:22 --- join: grub_boote1 (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 01:46:13 --- nick: grub_boote1 -> grub_booter 02:46:43 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 02:56:42 hi 03:11:21 --- join: zpg (n=user@81-178-210-121.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 03:12:21 Morning. 03:12:38 hi 03:12:48 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:12:55 --- join: ASau` (n=user@home-pool-173-2.com2com.ru) joined #forth 03:13:46 hi ASau`, grub_booter 03:14:42 either of you know if there are any video editing toolkits in forth? :-) 03:16:24 can't say i've come across any. then again, i don't do video editing. 03:16:38 i'd venture it unlikely though. 03:16:52 grub_booter: written much Forth before? 03:26:24 --- join: grub_boote1 (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 03:26:35 sorry - my connection dropped :-/ 03:28:37 did you get my response? 03:28:56 nope 03:29:21 "can't say i've come across any. then again, i don't do video editing. i'd venture it unlikely though." 03:29:29 ok 03:29:33 you could interface to a C library, say. 03:30:19 core lib is c++ - there's an rpn implementation in python at the moment (provides forth like function definitions/variables and so on) 03:30:32 link? 03:31:13 doc here - http://openlibraries.cvs.sourceforge.net/openlibraries/openlibraries/doc/oml.odt?view=log - it's not an easy one to build and install, but can talk you through it you're curious :-) 03:31:42 i need to have lunch just now - wife is getting annoyed :-) - back in 30 mins or so... 03:32:57 --- quit: grub_booter (Connection timed out) 03:34:04 Sure thing. http://www.openlibraries.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page is what you're showing me I take it? 03:56:02 yup 03:56:17 --- nick: grub_boote1 -> grub_booter 03:57:11 the doc is more relevant to this channel than the rest of the project :-) 03:57:35 really? 03:57:37 howso? 03:58:52 well, basically, i'm using rpn to create filter graphs - and the syntax of that is 'forth-like' - the doc explains it in quite a lot of detail (the code itself is a 200 line bit of python which is just a blip in comparison to the size of the whole) 04:01:37 intriguing stuff, i'll take another look at the doc. 04:02:37 i just highlight errors. 04:02:41 *just get 04:03:45 --- nick: crest__ -> Crest 04:18:41 --- quit: grub_booter (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:20:36 --- join: grub_boote1 (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 04:21:04 damn - something is completely screwed with my internet connection 04:21:38 what was the last thing typed from me? last from you was 'howso?' 04:21:51 It looks there're problems everywhere. 04:21:54 brb 04:21:55 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 04:22:14 I can't update my NetBSD from any of AnonCVS server. 04:22:36 Worm attack? 04:23:24 --- join: zpg (n=user@81-178-210-121.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 04:23:31 hmm - dunno - i know that my isp said they were going to do some work tomorrow and the connection would probably go.. they sometimes do things ahead of schedule though 04:23:49 sunday seems like a funny day to do it, but it wouldn't surprise me too much 04:23:53 grub_boote1: the documentation link you provided won't view over here. 04:24:05 ah - no open office? 04:24:14 nope. 04:24:27 k - one minute - will post a pdf 04:24:42 i get an exception -- "Error running external program. Command line was: "/usr/bin/highlight --syntax odt --force --anchors --fragment --xhtml --linenumbers"" 04:24:46 via firefox. 04:25:15 hmm 04:28:30 http://users.pandora.be/acp/oml.pdf 04:30:05 looking now. 04:31:31 grub_boote1: what did you generate that PDF in? 04:31:37 it won't open in Preview.app or Acrobat. 04:31:54 ugh 04:32:07 it was generated by open office 04:32:22 not a great advertisement for oo then 04:33:11 heh - nope - it's an ftp issue... 04:33:36 --- quit: grub_boote1 (Remote closed the connection) 04:34:15 the man is having technical problems. 04:34:24 --- join: grub_booter (n=charlie@d54C37EE9.access.telenet.be) joined #forth 04:34:55 welcome back. 04:38:02 confused - file sizes aren't matching after the ftp... 04:38:13 have used bin 04:38:57 curious. 04:40:10 not making any sense at all... 04:43:08 bizarre - everytime i upload it reports "709087 bytes sent in 41.17 secs (16.8 kB/s)" - dir shows "-rw-r--r-- 1 ftp ftp 709087 Jan 7 12:35 oml.pdf" 04:43:25 wget == 13:36:04 (540.66 KB/s) - `oml.pdf.2' saved [704512/704512] 04:43:46 will try compressing 04:44:43 doesn't make much diff 04:44:46 email? 04:50:45 even with a different file name - same issue 04:53:53 --- join: zpg` (n=user@85-210-35-253.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 04:56:51 sigh - http://users.pandora.be/acp/oml.pdf.gz 04:57:37 completely baffled - don't know what's going on there at all - but the compressed version works here 04:59:13 grub_booter: checking it out now. 04:59:45 cheers - sorry for the kafuffle and thanks for your patience 05:00:48 grub_booter: Sorry, I didn't follow, what are you trying to achieve? 05:01:43 ASau`: i don't know whether my explanation got dropped with my connection or not :-/, but quick summary is as follows 05:02:35 the oml project provides a high level api for the generation of video filter graphs - that api has two methods - push and pop 05:03:44 neat, the PDF worked, i see them discussing RPN in there. 05:04:07 so grub_booter, let's finally bring this back to your early questions -- why has this encouraged you to look to Forth, rather than just using the RPN notation from openlib? 05:04:20 the data passed in is in the form of strings and it has a forth-like syntax (in that you can define functions and local variables and so on) which can be used to encapsulate common manipulations 05:05:12 so you have a proto-forth interface 05:05:15 well, there are some syntactical anomalies which are showing up - like, quite often it would be nice to use the stack for artithmetic computations and string manipulations 05:05:20 --- quit: zpg (Nick collision from services.) 05:05:23 zpg`: yup 05:05:31 --- nick: zpg` -> zpg 05:05:43 --- part: zpg left #forth 05:05:45 --- join: zpg (n=user@85-210-35-253.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 05:05:48 neat okay. 05:06:05 you asked if this sort of video processing could be done from forth though. 05:06:08 what i'm wondering is - would the newer features of forth (oo stuff is new to me) be able to encapsulate all this 05:06:27 well, can be done is a given :-) - is done is more the question :-) 05:07:20 i haven't done any oop in forth. 05:07:34 but of course, it's doable. are you familiar with the basics? 05:07:37 (of Forth) 05:07:52 yeah - i wrote a forth compiler as a kid (in z80 assembly) 05:08:24 been a long time ago though - my memory is rusty and things have moved on since then 05:13:04 well, provided you interface to, say, an external graphics library (to save you a tonne of effort), an OOP RPN video interface is feasible. 05:13:22 check out the OOP stuff bundled with gforth for starters. 05:13:29 (brushing up on ANS Forth first) 05:13:31 should be - oml provides a c++ api which should do the trick 05:14:13 hmm, not sure how clean interfacing with C++ is, might be a little ugly. 05:14:23 hmm - k 05:14:40 just a minute - wife needs me again... 05:14:50 better ask someone who's used OOP in forth and/or used a foreign c++ library. 05:22:24 must head off, cheerio for now. 05:22:37 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 05:25:27 damn - missed him - oh well, was good feedback :-) 05:28:31 hmm... looks like i'd have do a c wrapper for all the (relevant) c++ object methods 05:29:09 unless someone else has a suggestion? 05:41:12 --- quit: Baughn ("I regret nothing!") 05:42:51 I think there is no (free) forth which will allow direct binding to c++ classes 05:43:37 --- join: Baughn (n=svein@195134062077.customer.alfanett.no) joined #forth 05:52:57 ah - k 05:53:47 well, in essence, the convert can be automated - at least to a certain degree 05:55:46 ie: type class_method( object, args ) { return object->method( args ); } covers a multitude of cases (overloading needs to be taken into account of course) 05:58:08 mebbe the boost::python approach is cleaner though... 06:24:10 --- join: frunobulax (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 06:32:31 --- join: zpg (n=user@85-210-168-19.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 06:32:47 Hi. 06:33:09 Hi to you, zpg. 06:33:50 hi frunobulax, how's it going? 06:34:50 Just "finished" the pico-RSS client. Having some tea, then I will start on the meteor puzzle. 06:35:35 heh, tea sounds like an excellent idea. so pico-RSS and nano-IRC -- is this all part of a larger toolbelt? 06:36:17 Obviously, it's a smallish toolbelt ;-) They're part of iTools. 06:36:29 :) 06:36:37 good stuff -- i take it you're using nano-irc right now? 06:36:54 Of course ... 06:37:31 any more fixes / modifications to it? 06:37:45 and btw -- would it be possible to see a screenshot? i'm curious to know what a very small IRC client looks like on screen. 06:38:34 No. There two keywords it doesn't understand yet. It doesn't listen when I type. That should be fixed. 06:39:42 'listen'? 06:39:47 as in, echo keystrokes? 06:41:04 For now, it has two modes (doesn't multi-task). SO IT DOESN"T    > > k). 06:41:29 did you mean to type ==> 06:41:47 ' For now, it has two modes (doesn't multi-task). SO IT DOESN"T    > > k).' ? 06:42:03 This means it has the words HEAR and SPEAK and they don't run at the same time. I'll upload a screenshot, if the pastebin wants it. 06:42:29 does it accept images? 06:43:06 I'll try. Hang on. 06:44:28 It doesn't. 06:44:41 didn't think so (not the .ca one anyway) 06:51:53 For a screenshot, see http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/nano-IRC.PNG 06:54:20 Ahh, neat. 06:56:39 You're lying. But now it's functional, I can add the bells and whistles. 06:57:12 No, it's impressive to see it running, especially given the size of the codebase. 06:58:03 Incidentally, I couldn't find an iForth compatibility layer (i.e., iForth words for ANS) on your site. You mentioned such a thing existed last time we spoke. 06:58:08 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 06:59:46 I wanted to see how much was really needed. Therefore I coded it exactly to what I needed, There are many shortcuts that couldn't be in a real product for the unwashed masses. 07:01:34 --- join: ygrek_ (i=user@gateway/tor/x-1c9611909616f425) joined #forth 07:05:47 --- quit: ygrek (Remote closed the connection) 07:08:19 zpg: Check compat.frt on my home-site (same location as the screenshot). 07:12:25 Looking now. 07:17:45 --- join: simple (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 07:18:55 --- nick: simple -> sample 07:19:22 --- nick: sample -> exsample 07:22:57 Finished tea, off to Meteor. 07:23:00 --- quit: frunobulax ("a quit that really quits") 07:44:06 hey exsample 07:46:49 hi 07:51:46 --- quit: exsample ("A quit that really quits") 08:08:58 --- quit: zpg ("cheers for now") 08:22:29 --- quit: Cheery (Remote closed the connection) 08:22:48 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 08:23:57 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 08:35:03 --- quit: exsample () 08:46:45 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 08:47:12 --- quit: exsample (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:47:14 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekePro@82.200.251.115) joined #forth 08:47:33 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 09:34:43 --- quit: exsample (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:35:13 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 09:45:16 --- quit: ASau` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:51:25 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 09:51:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 09:57:22 --- join: ASau (n=user@home-pool-173-2.com2com.ru) joined #forth 10:05:24 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-156-212.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 10:43:19 --- quit: exsample ("A quit that really quits") 10:44:42 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 10:45:03 Hi exsample 10:45:03 Hello. I am a bot. Try !help. 11:29:38 !help 11:29:38 IRC bot written in SP-Forth (http://spf.sf.net). alpha (07.Jan.2007) 11:29:38 Available commands - !q, !aq , !help 11:29:59 !q 11:29:59 No pains - no gains (c) [ygrek_] 11:30:27 That's it! 11:34:10 !q forth 11:34:11 When you've seen one Forth, you have seen one Forth. [Wil_Baden] 11:48:27 !q 11:48:28 No pains - no gains (c) [ygrek_] 11:48:35 !q 11:48:35 No pains - no gains (c) [ygrek_] 11:48:39 !q 11:48:39 No pains - no gains (c) [ygrek_] 11:48:58 there are only two quotes by now ;) 11:49:02 !q 1 11:49:03 No pains - no gains (c) [ygrek_] 11:49:05 !q 2 11:49:05 cannot find quote 11:49:17 !q 0 11:49:18 When you've seen one Forth, you have seen one Forth. [Wil_Baden] 11:49:41 !aq Let Forth be with you 11:50:03 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:50:34 !aq Use Forth, Luke! 11:50:50 !q 2 11:50:52 cannot find quote 11:51:11 hm 11:51:22 !q luke 11:51:22 cannot find quote 11:51:42 good afternoon 11:51:51 He gave no confirmation, so i guess he didn't added these quotes 11:52:17 he did. but didn't not reload. oops 11:53:07 maybe lets move to another channel with testing if someone is against seeing stupid bot here :) 11:54:51 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E07D66.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:57:40 Good evening, arke_! 11:59:32 --- quit: exsample ("Need hot code reload ;)") 12:02:02 hi 12:02:50 --- quit: arke (Nick collision from services.) 12:02:54 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 12:02:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 12:06:53 man, sometimes tech support people are such dorks 12:07:17 I submitten a bug to bugs.php.net entitled: "setcookie() docs don't say what to pass in "expire" to get a session cookie" 12:07:55 marked it as a documentation problem 12:08:01 and gave a detailed explanation 12:08:51 someone set the bug to bogus, pasted in the standard "this is not the place for support requests" speech, and told me that I could access cookies with $_COOKIES[whatever] 12:11:20 while I'm terribly sorry that I used the ambiguous "get" rather than "create" or "set" 12:11:33 I'm still pissed he ignored everything 12:12:01 he could have actually looked at the docs for setcookie() that I said were missing this info (say, by clicking the link I provided) and found that it in fact didn't specify what I said it didn't specify 12:13:19 hmmm.... this reminds me a bit of last time I submitted a PHP bug 12:13:30 that time they said that it was supposed to do that 12:13:37 stupid bastards 12:16:24 Don't mind. 12:16:39 This problem is general to all programmers. 12:16:55 nothing is general to all programmers 12:17:06 except perhaps that they program, or at least claim to 12:17:24 Alright. 12:17:48 Don't mind anyway. 12:18:54 It looks like NetBSD people decided to make pkgsrc the 12:18:55 NetBSD compatible layer. 12:19:15 "kristerw * wip/Makefile: Add netbsd-awk, netbsd-bsdgrep, netbsd-m4" 12:29:50 --- quit: skas_wk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:33:37 --- join: exsample (n=spf@203-53-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) joined #forth 12:48:07 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 12:48:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 12:48:18 --- quit: nighty_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:51:01 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 12:53:31 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 12:53:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 12:53:42 I am the fastest systems programmer on earth . 12:53:42 """ but if ur so fast , why are there still jobs , 12:53:42 ??"" 12:54:10 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0895.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 12:55:56 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 12:59:35 !aq - I am the fastest systems programmer on earth . - But if ur so fast , why are there still jobs?? 12:59:35 Quote added. Thanks. Total = 6. 13:00:03 --- nick: ygrek_ -> ygrek 13:00:12 we have a bot collecting werty quotes now? 13:00:36 bot collects AI's quotes %) 13:00:46 for feeding another AI 13:01:08 werty is not an AI, he's a brain damaged freak 13:06:05 I would not support that. 13:07:07 He may have the point, though he does not express it clear enough. 13:07:17 he doesn't have a point. 13:08:02 I'm not that experienced in English to test this. 13:08:28 --- join: jackokring[1] (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 13:09:15 But I have experience of such situations, when high level 13:09:15 intuition co-exists with bad expression abilities. 13:19:55 Werty has no point. He's a thundering moron. 13:38:12 !aq Keep definitions short. (c) Brodie 13:38:13 Quote added. Thanks. Total = 7. 14:03:37 --- quit: exsample ("Need hot code reload ;)") 14:04:29 --- part: ygrek left #forth 14:17:23 --- join: jackokring[3] (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 14:19:00 Quartus: do you find this iforth code easy to follow? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/msg/715cad131f87bf06 14:23:23 --- quit: jackokring[1] (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:36:50 --- join: zpg (n=user@81-179-81-64.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 14:37:07 Hi. 14:59:32 --- quit: jackokring[3] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:09:21 hey slava. Have to check that out in an hour or so, mobile now. 15:18:58 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:53:01 --- join: thinfu (n=wunderwa@bespin.org) joined #forth 15:53:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thinfu 16:08:00 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:12:48 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 16:13:16 slava -- no. 16:15:07 --- join: frunobulax (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 16:15:55 --- part: thinfu left #forth 16:25:30 --- quit: frunobulax ("a quit that really quits") 17:15:54 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:44:36 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") 17:49:48 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 17:59:40 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 18:11:45 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 18:11:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 18:17:40 Hey. 18:33:14 Dobroe utro. 18:41:17 ok, cool, I got a reply from the PHP people. Looks like they actually read my bug report this time 18:41:30 they said this weird thing though: 18:41:30 Note the "If not set" clause (which is essentially the 18:41:31 same as passing 0). 18:44:44 is that a whole sentence? 19:13:53 yeah, if you read it right 19:14:01 these people obviously don't pay much attention to detail 19:14:16 as in "please note the 'no smoking' sign" 19:14:57 good evening. 19:15:18 s/Note/take note of/ not s/Note/Note that/ 19:15:34 hi absentia 19:15:45 Ah. 19:23:56 rather poorly stated 20:08:34 quiet night 20:22:17 interesting. 20:28:38 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 20:37:04 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:51:41 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:58:47 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 20:58:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 21:10:12 hey 21:21:28 what's up ? 21:21:54 not too much. You? 21:24:03 just relaxing -- went on a google search, hit a blog by a member of this channel, gave me a link to a turing award paper from '78 (really interesting) -- that led me to do a depth first foray through wikipedia where I ran across references to another member of this channel, links to machine architecture that looped back to moor and forth, a jump to the outlands where there was a reference to a researcher who worked at a place where I worked... 21:24:13 and now I'm popping back to clear the stack. 21:24:32 I see. 21:25:32 (oh, along the way ran across many references to what I thought were obscure papers ... that I had read... ). 21:26:01 not so obscure after all? 21:26:58 guess not. 21:27:16 there was a paragraph that was really nice -- refernce to forth... I was gonna paste it, but decided not to spam. 21:27:29 go nuts. 21:29:42 the lnk is long since pop'd :-) 21:29:50 ah 21:44:12 what was the general idea of it? 21:47:09 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 21:47:26 hey nighty 21:47:39 back to play 'guess the book?' :) 21:50:10 q: forgot -- was something about stack machine implementations... (I know, that doesn't tell you anything) ... 21:50:29 true 22:04:21 --- quit: delian66 (Client Quit) 22:30:41 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection) 22:57:08 --- quit: ASau (Remote closed the connection) 22:58:33 --- quit: nighty_ (Remote closed the connection) 23:07:07 wow... found a link to what is claimed to be the world's smallest and simplest evolvable instruction set virtual machine. It's similar to another system -- one that I was in charge of providing an optimized runtime environment for around '92-'93. The world is far too small. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/07.01.07