00:00:00 --- log: started forth/07.01.01 00:38:53 --- quit: virsys ("bah") 01:00:47 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 02:15:33 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-68-17.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 02:37:51 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:50:11 --- join: ASau (n=user@home-pool-173-2.com2com.ru) joined #forth 02:58:52 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-54-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 02:59:47 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@pool-71-164-165-172.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 05:06:02 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:06:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 06:46:45 --- join: ygrek (i=user@gateway/tor/x-d4d05f229c64138a) joined #forth 07:18:59 --- join: gorgonzola (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 07:20:06 --- quit: gorgonzola (Client Quit) 07:23:57 --- join: gorgonzola (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 07:24:18 --- quit: gorgonzola (Client Quit) 07:24:39 --- join: gorgonzola (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 07:24:53 Good evening! 07:25:33 It's 16:18:02 here .. 07:25:48 6pm here. 07:33:27 Good day to all. 9:25 or there about. 07:35:38 Quartus in today? 07:47:56 Raystm2: he doesn't usually seem to be here this time of day; maybe in a few hours 07:48:49 oh tathi... 07:49:24 thanks btw. :) 07:52:29 tathi did you quit? 07:52:53 I'm still here 07:53:14 Burke's work is the history of technology but from the point of view where each invention begat that invention. 07:53:36 The chat is set up to watch those programs and discuss. 07:53:47 I don't have the technology to watch those programs 07:53:53 and I'm not much interested in the subject anyway 07:53:54 Sorry. :) 07:53:59 ok. :) 07:54:18 Ignore my last half hour then. :) 07:54:47 ok :) 07:55:13 Quartus has met him. 07:55:35 ah 07:58:52 I know you may not be interested in this but I think that the productions of 3 men can give a person a pretty good handle on all that can be known, and these men are, James Burke, Sience and Technology historian, Joseph Campbell, The history of the transformation of myth thru time, and Carl Sagan, history of the universe. But then, that's all opinion and there is plenty of room for more. 08:00:57 --- join: frunobulax (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 08:08:48 Btw, none of those guys are an attack on anyones religious beliefs. 08:10:54 --- quit: gorgonzola (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:51:04 --- join: madgarden_ (n=madgarde@bas2-kitchener06-1096668571.dsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 08:52:54 hey 08:57:42 Whats up? 09:00:09 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:02:38 --- join: Quartus___ (n=Quartus_@205.205.50.2) joined #forth 09:08:16 Quartus: are you a James Burke fan? 09:09:02 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:11:39 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:22:31 Who is James Burke? 09:22:43 RTWP? 09:23:47 Technology Historian with a bit of humor. 09:24:26 --- quit: ellisway (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:25:00 No doubt he has some philosophical background. 09:25:45 Technocratic, "luddite" or any other. 09:25:51 :) 09:25:58 Which one? 09:26:58 More a reporter of events then steering any particular point of view, instead using them all to support the thesis of the connection between events, meaning that invention is concatenative by nature. 09:27:54 Invention as product of community not an inventor. Right? 09:27:55 We talked about Burke, Ray. I met him a few years back. 09:28:44 Are you away, Quartus? or can you view his movies. Links at /join ##Burke. 09:29:21 no movies from here. 09:29:39 Links are there for your convenience. 09:30:08 I'll check'em out when I can! 09:31:08 The problem with all these links is that it is a lot of reading. 09:31:25 2 series posted it appears by Burke himself. The day the universe changed and the entire first connections. 09:31:31 :) 09:32:09 neat! 09:32:40 very. I'm starting to sicken of him i've been watching him for hours. 09:35:45 --- join: Raystm2- (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-34-42.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:37:05 Little Kitty likes to eat my net connection. 09:37:54 --- quit: Raystm2 (Nick collision from services.) 09:38:23 --- nick: Raystm2- -> Raystm2 10:14:41 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 10:30:57 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:23:39 --- join: ellisway (n=ellis@host-87-74-241-174.bulldogdsl.com) joined #forth 11:24:25 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:25:05 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 11:25:59 --- quit: cmeme (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:27:51 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth 11:41:05 --- join: BirdReynolds (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 11:52:23 --- join: arke_ (n=chris@pD9E0786F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:03:05 --- quit: arke (Nick collision from services.) 12:03:08 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 12:03:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 12:03:55 --- quit: BirdReynolds ("a quit that really quits") 12:04:44 --- join: BirdReynolds (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 12:06:01 --- join: jackokring (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 12:16:09 Not really Forth related, sorry. Does anybody know how to locate plotter files on the 'net? I need some more to test my Forth vector plot package. Example: http://huizen.dto.tudelft.nl/deBruijn/grafiek/cocktl.htm . Color would be nice too. 12:32:38 --- quit: ygrek () 12:50:44 * tathi doesn't know... 12:50:54 what, hpgl plotter files? 12:52:51 What's ACTION ? 12:53:01 huh? 12:54:12 Tathi said "ACTION doesn't know..." 12:54:27 no, he didn't. He used /me 12:54:56 oh, sorry. 12:55:05 forgot you were using nano-irc 12:55:33 that shows up as "* tathi doesn't know" on my irc client 12:56:23 Aha. More work to do. I guess non-ascii can be used for commands. 12:56:26 action is a programing language? 12:56:45 * absentia says this is an action. 12:56:54 absentia: there you go :) 12:59:33 http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/ctcpspec.html 12:59:53 ^Acommand 13:00:04 heh. 'This is used by losers on IRC to simulate "role playing" games.' 13:00:08 you use to be able to send a message to a channel like that, and people would reply ... ^APING 13:01:25 you could cause people to get themselves kicked off for flodding by having then respond to multiple pings... ^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^A^APING .. etc. irc was such a playground. 13:02:58 --- quit: Quartus___ ("used jmIrc") 13:05:27 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:05:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 13:24:23 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:27:53 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:27:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 14:02:36 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-26-248.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:02:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 14:03:38 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p54896A89.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:40:22 --- quit: frunobulax ("a quit that really quits") 14:40:35 --- join: frunobulax (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 14:42:11 --- quit: BirdReynolds ("a quit that really quits") 14:42:22 --- join: BirdReynolds (n=mhx@f233149.upc-f.chello.nl) joined #forth 14:43:38 Could anybody let go of a /me ? 14:48:11 --- quit: Crest (Connection reset by peer) 14:49:59 * crc tests 14:50:22 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 14:51:24 --- quit: jackokring (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:52:41 Thanks crc. It's almost ok, it's RPN :-( 14:52:44 * absentia is here. 15:08:25 --- quit: frunobulax ("a quit that really quits") 15:08:48 --- quit: BirdReynolds ("a quit that really quits") 15:29:45 --- join: jackokring (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 16:00:14 --- quit: jackokring (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:26:48 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-70-248-239-251.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 16:48:32 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p54896A89.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:50:00 Hi, Jen! 16:50:10 Happy New Year! 16:50:58 hiya :) happy new year to you too :) 16:51:13 i've been implementing crypto routines : 16:51:13 :) 16:51:20 Cool! 16:51:40 MDn? 16:51:55 Or something more complex? 16:52:03 i implemented MD5 ages ago... tho i should add it to my lib soon 16:52:05 did SHA1 today 16:52:09 ARCFOUR recently 16:52:24 today i designed a generic hash interface 16:52:34 so i can use any hash function i want, whenever i want 16:52:48 in forth or C? 16:52:54 probably going to write a little program like md5sum that lets me choose the hash type 16:52:55 in C... 16:52:56 I think, in Forth. 16:53:12 with a bit of asm for support 16:53:17 i do most of my performance-intensive code that way 16:53:49 Well, NetBSD cksum support several hashes. 16:54:03 IIRC, MD5, RMD256, SHA1 16:54:13 Let me see... 16:54:56 MD2, MD4, MD5, SHA256, SHA512, SHA384 16:55:17 *nods* 16:55:26 Have you seen that? 16:55:34 nope, i haven't... but it sounds like what i'm writing 16:56:47 my sha1 routine performs as well as sha1sum, which is based on the gpg sha1 routine 16:56:48 so i 16:56:58 --- log: started forth/07.01.01 16:56:58 --- join: clog (n=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 16:56:58 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction: http://tinyurl.com/kvawv | Starting Forth: http://tinyurl.com/rm7pq | Thinking Forth: http://tinyurl.com/nsy4j | Gforth compiler: http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | http://quartus.net/search | Paste: http://forth.pastebin.ca' 16:56:58 --- topic: set by Quartus on [Sat Nov 25 22:45:21 2006] 16:56:58 --- names: list (clog warpzero Crest Amanita_Virosa @JasonWoof @Quartus @Quartus_ @arke cmeme ellisway nighty__ Raystm2 neceve madgarden_ @tathi Al2O3 ASau virsys @crc nighty_ skas_wk virl ayrnieu TreyB Baughn Sukoshi absentia Zarutian ccfg timlarson) 16:57:39 And I'm messing with DragonForth sources these days. 16:57:48 cool, what's dragonforth? 16:57:50 I have to port them to Gforth. 16:57:50 dragonball? 16:58:16 Originally, it was for PalmOS/DragonBall. 16:58:23 * Amanita_Virosa nods 16:58:41 forth has a weird habit of being more portable than you expect, less portable than you desire 16:58:57 Well put. 16:59:04 But since more recent Palms emulate M68K, it works on 16:59:04 Tungstens etc. 16:59:59 * Amanita_Virosa nods 17:00:25 i know i ported someone's version of Conway's Game of Life to my own FORTH system once... 17:00:36 took about an hour, but once the words were substituted, up it came 17:00:38 One big disadvantage of RuFIG is it's closely tighten with SP-Forth. 17:01:11 It has several extensions which dictate quite another coding style. 17:01:17 ah 17:01:56 Interpreter searches for "NOTFOUND" word after all, 17:02:23 and interpretes it, if found. 17:02:28 ...when found. 17:03:09 So you don't need predefined hook in your INTERPRET or what 17:03:09 you have there. 17:03:48 Syntax extensions are easy to define. 17:04:04 Now I have a dilemma: 17:04:20 a) defint SP-Forth compatible interpreter in Gforth; 17:04:54 b) translate (redesign) code so it doesn't use our Russian extensions. 17:05:09 sweet. 17:05:19 if all you want to do is add a search for 'NOTFOUND', that's easy. 17:05:23 Just to add to all these: code is rather chaotic. 17:05:37 Quartus: I know. 17:06:18 But if I want to clean the code, see above, it's rather chaotic, 17:06:40 I maybe have to redesign it anyway. 17:06:53 oh, you mean your SP-Forth code. 17:07:17 DragonForth is target-compiled from SP-Forth. 17:08:14 Yes, I mean SP-Forth code. 17:08:49 ...SP-Forth-specific DragonForth code, to be precise. 17:09:20 Or how is it? 17:09:31 Oh, those metacompilers. 17:36:33 chaotic how? 17:39:01 It is not well structured, many long definitions, 17:39:01 definitions are scattered without any system. 17:39:11 ugh. 17:40:08 Well, I'm going to sleep. 17:40:15 I remember two things about DragonForth, one being that the developer stole several Quartus Forth library files, the other being that he would advertise for it on my discussion forum. 17:40:31 Good morning. 17:40:40 I'm not at all surprised to hear it's badly written. 17:40:51 I try to fix it. 17:41:01 But after I sleep a bit. 17:41:30 Sorry, I have to leave you. 17:41:44 likely a waste of time, 'polishing a turd' as they say. But what the heck. 17:41:51 ok, bye 17:42:44 You may look at CVS source, and write me if you don't want 17:42:44 to see particular library file in distribution. 17:43:30 perhaps I shall. I recall the Doc reader specifically was mine, taken without permission or attribution, with my name stripped out. 17:44:08 the Doc decompression library, that is. 17:44:19 I've written replacement, but not placed it in CVS. 17:44:58 also the integer trig routines, but I'd have to review it to recall exactly. 17:45:16 I remember there was annoying bug, I had to fix. 17:45:30 he was an extremely unpleasant little man. Dmitry something-or-other I think. 17:46:25 arrogant, untalented, rude, with a very poor command of English. 17:48:29 'Nyet cultura' I think is the phrase. 17:48:56 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:49:37 Nyet Culpa 17:50:40 'ne culturny', rather. 'Uncultured', but it carries more weight untranslated. 17:51:27 anyway. What are you up to, absentia? 17:51:51 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:53:46 reading slashdot to unwind... found the post about the imminent relase of d 1.0 17:54:41 came across this line -- so I was looking at it: http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?LanguagesVersusD 17:54:59 you might want to add a column for forth 17:55:08 I don't know enough 'bout forth to do so. 17:55:13 I can't easily bring up that page on this gadget. 17:55:24 it's a table. 17:55:27 colorful table. 17:56:13 this is the column header: 17:56:15 Feature D C C++ C# Java Delphi Eiffel Ada Haskell Sather Lisp/CLOS Smalltalk Perl Python Ruby 17:57:37 I'm reminded of the Atari vs. C64 ads that had 'number of keys' listed as a feature. 17:58:25 most of those languages are OO. Isn't D a C++ variant? 17:59:02 not quite... it's closer to a C# variant 17:59:11 god, i don't need more drool-worthy languages 17:59:18 i hate it when my programming system treats me like an idiot 17:59:19 so a java variant, once removed. 17:59:21 the page was created to show benefits of D, so it has some esoteric / minimal things on it 17:59:27 i like my C and my inline asm and my forth 17:59:44 ya, atari was way better :-) 1.79 Mhz... that .79 really rocked.. lets not forget GTIA, ANTIC, etc. 18:00:06 I looked at it -- I figured I'd rather go C++ than D .... :-/ 18:00:13 I have no problem with oo as a specific programming technique, but I have very little interest in languages that force it. 18:00:41 quartus_ - exactly 18:00:45 I also think people give it more value than it should... ie: EVERYTHING has to be OO, etc. 18:00:48 i use a lot of OO-like techniques in C 18:00:58 but not exclusively 18:01:23 You can do oo in forth too, pretty neatly. Good fit for some problems. Some. 18:01:27 what's hard ... is to make EVERYTHING oo.. you can make some really good parts of programs have really good object models, but it's difficult to force everything into an "object" 18:01:35 and comeout with good object design. 18:02:09 although I haven'tgoten into it deeply, it seems that i'll like the LISP OO model the best. 18:02:10 * Amanita_Virosa nods 18:02:37 I haven't looked into it much 18:02:53 but it seems like there are many, very extensive efforts to make a good OO model/language 18:03:02 and mostly people say they are terrible and/or broken 18:03:14 so it must be hard! ;) 18:03:19 that or people are stupid 18:03:25 well, the paradigm is rather broken, to be honest 18:03:33