00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.12.23
00:14:54 <Quartus> sconstant is a better name than 'keep-string'.
00:15:11 <Quartus> But it's 3am. :)
00:22:15 <Quartus> As much as I'll do to it tonight (minor changes only): http://rafb.net/p/Lfn6m215.html
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00:30:21 <Quartus> ok, tell a lie, here's the last one for tonight -- primarily a re-ordering for further clarity: http://rafb.net/p/4IcC5L37.html
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00:39:55 <Quartus> well, don't think too poorly of me, here's one more -- but I'm going to sleep now, so the updates should become less frequent. :)  http://rafb.net/p/sJ664v82.html
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04:15:33 <Baughn> Quartus: Oh, I'm still busy teaching myself PIC16F690 assembly
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06:03:03 <snowrichard> hi
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09:36:20 <absentia> sukoshi: do you have a zaurus?
09:36:29 <Sukoshi> Nope.
09:36:36 <absentia> k
09:36:52 <Quartus> I have one I rarely use.
09:38:29 <absentia> there was a sukoshi from .jp that did a lot of good work.
09:38:50 <absentia> I am waiting for the next version of pdaXrom to be releaed -- one that is stable -- and then I will get forth on mine, etc.
09:39:14 <Quartus> Sukoshi means 'a small portion' in Japanese.
09:39:19 <Sukoshi> Yes.
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10:45:09 <nighty_> uhmmm
10:47:24 <zpg> evening.
10:47:43 <Quartus_> hey
10:48:11 <zpg> howdy Quartus_
10:48:25 <zpg> just read Novelli's retrospective look at Forth and Small C
10:48:51 <Quartus_> I remember some extremely flawed article on that.
10:48:57 <zpg> :)
10:49:17 <zpg> I only read a brief excerpt; that is, the conclusion.
10:49:18 <Quartus_> It took a lot of criticism, as did he.
10:50:35 * zpg nods
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12:52:39 <jeremy_c> What do you guys think of the book Programming Forth?
12:52:46 <zpg> the Pelc?
12:53:02 <jeremy_c> http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk/arena/ProgramForth.pdf
12:53:10 <zpg> Pretty strong stuff.
12:53:11 <slava> hi jeremy_c
12:53:15 <slava> hanging out in the parallel universe? :)
12:53:19 <jeremy_c> slava: howdy.
12:53:22 <jeremy_c> slava: yes, indeed.
12:53:25 <zpg> hey slava 
12:53:37 <jeremy_c> slava: just comparing/contrasting.
12:53:38 <slava> about your split, split* confusion the other day, those words changed between the version running on the web site and what you're running
12:53:55 <slava> so the docs on the web site are out of date in a number of respects, which is confusing, but i'm upgrading the httpd real soon now
12:53:58 <jeremy_c> slava: yeah, I learned to trust the docs in my ide instead of web.
12:54:24 <slava> i skipped a release because after 0.86 was released erg found a bunch of bugs with his random tester under high load
12:56:50 <zpg> ir
12:57:07 * zpg clears his throat
13:06:34 <virl> hanging out in the parallel universe?
13:06:44 <slava> #concatenative
13:08:51 <virl> btw. who started calling languages with a rpn notation concatenative languages? is that a real computer science name for such languages?
13:09:04 <slava> the developer of the joy language did
13:09:17 <slava> i prefer 'stack based' these days
13:09:34 <slava> a concatenative language is one where the composition of two functions is denoted by concatenation
13:09:54 <slava> or, the result of applying B to A, where A and B are programs, is written A B
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17:50:50 <nighty_> Is any company still producing forth chips ? 
17:52:08 <nighty_> or is one better off just using a more powerful chip like an ARM chip ?
17:53:23 <Quartus_> Iintellasys, though how near to release I don't know; Patriot Semiconductor.
17:53:51 <nighty_> Quartus: ok 
17:54:04 <Quartus_> I would think no particular benefit to Forth hardware, unless the specific attributes of a package meet your needs.
17:54:16 <nighty_> Quartus: none
17:54:41 <nighty_> Quartus: I need to write a 802.11 stack 
17:54:45 <nighty_> Quartus: for it
17:54:55 <nighty_> Quartus: this is my pet project still
17:55:08 <nighty_> Quartus: for advanced Wifi Tags
17:55:29 <nighty_> Quartus: I am trying to find a very low power chip 
17:55:52 <nighty_> Quartus: maybe AVR butterfly (ATMEL) is ok 
17:56:04 <nighty_> Quartus: at least for prototype
17:57:10 <nighty_> the problem is Wifi power usage
17:57:12 <Quartus_> ok, so that's your key attribute.
17:57:42 <nighty_> i need to find a Wifi chip that is low enough power
17:58:05 <Quartus_> Hard. Milliwatts are milliwatts.
17:58:24 <nighty_> well a higher sensitivity is key
17:58:45 <nighty_> its a problem that is solved on both end :)
17:58:54 <Quartus_> transmission is the power drain, though.
17:58:59 <nighty_> I mean solved by looking at both ends
17:59:13 <nighty_> yes it definitely is
18:00:42 <nighty_> I have been discussing nano wind turbines with Ryerson Professor
18:01:09 <nighty_> in order to be able to recharge some small batteries
18:01:33 <Quartus_> I'm hearing Sinatra, singing "That nano wind, comes blowin' in..."
18:01:42 <nighty_> :)
18:02:03 <nighty_> it is an interesting concept
18:02:39 <nighty_> I went to ryerson last week, they are working on some nice things there
18:02:57 <nighty_> I was amazed
18:03:14 <Quartus_> I didn't know they did research.
18:03:21 <nighty_> They do 
18:03:24 <nighty_> a lot
18:04:09 <Quartus_> interesting.
18:04:15 <nighty_> Canadian Gov has been funding together with industry
18:04:42 <nighty_> and they have a shitload of Professors
18:05:17 <nighty_> ryerson was a college but now it is a full blown univ
18:05:46 <Quartus_> yes, I know that much.
18:06:14 <nighty_> I went to U of T as well
18:06:38 <nighty_> I must say I was more impressed by the Ryerson Profs than by the U of T one
18:07:53 <Quartus_> I can't believe you were impressed by anything Canadian, you used to always complain :)
18:08:28 <nighty_> Oh you misunderstood my intentions I think
18:08:40 <nighty_> I was complaining about the internet 
18:08:55 <nighty_> there are many good things in Canada 
18:09:06 <nighty_> aside from the internet infrastructures
18:09:28 <Quartus_> Yes, our terrible internet, our terrible cars, our terrible beaurocracy :)
18:09:45 <nighty_> Cars yes :) American cars :)
18:10:05 <nighty_> bureaucracy is not that bad
18:10:12 <Quartus_> I think I have left a few items out.
18:10:13 <nighty_> I am used to shit bureaucracy 
18:10:19 <nighty_> France is about the same 
18:10:30 <nighty_> if not worse
18:11:30 <nighty_> Oh yes the discotheques that close at 3AM 
18:11:48 <nighty_> but hey I don't go that much there anyway :) I go like almost never :)
18:11:50 <Quartus_> right.
18:12:15 <nighty_> aside from that , Canada is fine for me :)
18:12:18 <Quartus_> so you see why I'm surprised. :)
18:12:37 <nighty_> Hey only idiots never change their mind 
18:13:34 <Quartus_> some idiots change their mind constantly.
18:13:38 <nighty_> lol
18:13:45 <nighty_> maybe I am one of these :)
18:14:05 <Quartus_> heh
18:14:44 <nighty_> I saw powernet
18:15:00 <Quartus_> what's that?
18:15:14 <nighty_> but this is only for VFX forth
18:15:44 <nighty_> http://www.mpeforth.com/powernet.htm
18:16:02 <Quartus_> mobile presently, hard to browse.
18:16:45 <nighty_> I see
18:17:16 <nighty_> Quartus: mobile like using your Palm ? 
18:17:36 <Quartus_> blackberry right now.
18:17:42 <nighty_> oh nice
18:18:04 <nighty_> Quartus: wonder how much it cost to use blackberry ? 
18:18:20 <nighty_> Quartus: there is no charge for byte transfers ? 
18:18:31 <Quartus_> it varies, you can get different packages fromn different carriers.
18:18:47 <Quartus_> depends.
18:19:51 <nighty_> I never asked you , how did you come to program forth for palm ? 
18:19:57 <nighty_> what lead to this ? 
18:20:07 <nighty_> led
18:20:11 <Quartus_> one min and I'll let you know :)
18:22:11 <Quartus_> Ok. I became seriously interested in Forth when it was being Standardized. In '96 when the original palm device came out, I learned that it was programmable, and thought it would be great to be able to program it onboard, with Forth.
18:22:37 <Quartus_> so I set about it.
18:24:32 <nighty_> what kind of job people are using that for ? 
18:24:42 <nighty_> I mean Quartus forth 
18:24:47 <Quartus_> pretty wide range.
18:25:07 <Quartus_> games to mission-critical stuff.
18:25:23 <nighty_> I am interested in knowing about mission critical stuff
18:26:30 <Quartus_> one group wrote field-tracking software for use on a hardened Palm in Arctic environments.
18:27:28 <Quartus> Another developer wrote a sales-force automation package for Palm VII devices.
18:27:52 <nighty_> can these apps be protected ? 
18:27:56 <Quartus> what do you mean?
18:28:01 <nighty_> or "compiled"
18:28:24 <Quartus> You mean can Quartus Forth generate stand-alone apps?  Yes, and they're fully compiled, native-code.  There's no source in an app.
18:28:30 <nighty_> ok 
18:28:42 <Quartus> No run-time library.  The stand-alone apps really stand alone. :)
18:28:47 <nighty_> nice
18:29:02 <nighty_> what is the smallest PALM OS device available ? 
18:29:17 <Quartus> That would be the Fossil PalmOS wristwatch.
18:31:20 <Quartus> I see you on the wiki :)
19:11:53 <nighty_> yes
19:12:05 <nighty_> just a minor typo correction
19:12:10 <nighty_> as I passed by
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19:19:45 <zpg> good evening.
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21:48:16 <nighty_> Cool 
21:48:22 <nighty_> openfirmware is free now
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