00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.11.01 00:00:09 --- join: arke (i=Chris@x27.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 00:00:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 00:38:16 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 00:41:37 --- quit: arke (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 00:54:39 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@12.18.108.162) joined #forth 00:59:59 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 01:31:31 --- join: arke (n=Chris@x108.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 01:31:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 01:32:10 Morning 01:48:29 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed again") 02:45:13 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:04:00 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 04:08:20 --- quit: segher (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:09:15 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-201-031.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:40:38 --- join: arke (i=Chris@x84.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 04:40:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 05:49:42 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:15:42 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekePro@82.200.251.145) joined #forth 06:21:22 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 06:26:59 --- join: zpg (n=user@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk) joined #forth 06:27:22 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:29:11 --- quit: zpg (Client Quit) 06:38:29 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:10:30 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-119-091.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 07:10:54 --- join: arke (n=Chris@pD9E0799F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:10:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 07:18:52 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 07:19:00 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 07:39:54 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 07:46:07 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 07:49:13 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-26-248.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:49:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:14:10 --- part: forther left #forth 08:41:58 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:45:09 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-68-118.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 08:58:01 --- join: jackokring (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 09:48:20 --- join: timlarson___ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 09:57:36 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@pool-162-84-156-148.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 10:06:05 --- quit: timlarson_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:28:03 --- join: forther (n=forther@h-66-166-144-210.snvacaid.covad.net) joined #forth 10:41:15 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-514d7663.l2.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 10:48:22 evening 10:51:36 Hey. 10:54:27 evening Quartus 10:54:42 i should have some time on my hands over the next couple of hours, so can finally get around to looking at your code. 10:54:44 sorry for the delays 10:54:50 No problem. 11:09:35 Quartus: I saw you posted new list code... 11:09:43 hey all! 11:09:43 A while ago. 11:10:11 Better factoring and naming. 11:18:57 vatic! Quartus! zpg! not necessarily in that order. :) 11:19:04 hey ray. 11:19:52 list code? 11:19:58 no, new list code. 11:21:03 just a small revision to the earlier stuff. http://forth.pastebin.ca/225096 11:21:11 Ray_work: Hay Rey! 11:27:00 :) 11:27:13 --- quit: timlarson (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:27:30 Ok, cool, I'd lost track of this. 11:33:12 Small typo in it. Fixed: http://forth.pastebin.ca/233123 11:35:20 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l325b.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 11:35:29 --- quit: timlarson__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:52:04 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 11:55:24 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekePro@82.200.251.145) joined #forth 12:11:33 Quartus, I guess you don't need much more then that to process a list. Everything else that I can think of are just convenience words, ie: caar, cadr, etc. 12:12:00 For untyped lists of cells, anyway. 12:13:13 ANIMALS! cool. Can use that to code that animal guessing game. "Is it a Duck?" "What is the difference between the duck and this animal?" so on... 12:13:33 Yes, that's a tree structure, can be done. 12:14:30 Neat. Some company is selling a game like that animals guessing game. Is it "Twenty Questions" or some such? /me checks online. 12:15:40 hi 12:16:00 Ray_work: i've been tinkering on some (albeit badly factored) list code, where all list elements are doubles, and conotain type information. 12:16:03 Hi, zpg. What's up. 12:16:11 neat too. 12:16:11 the code is somewhat more convoluted than Quartus', but hey. that's to be expected. 12:16:18 :) 12:16:21 not too much Ray_work, how's life? 12:17:52 I recommend highly! :) 12:26:30 --- quit: EdLin ("leaving") 12:32:39 zpg, I could complain, and prob'ly will, but who listens? do you hear me? who listens? are you listening? no one listens. 12:33:21 i hear you. 12:33:28 well, in a textual sense anyway. 12:33:34 Hows about your life? Hey, are ya into the Brittish comedies? 12:33:39 :) 12:33:52 depends on the comedy -- in general, yes. 12:34:22 there are some turkeys too of course -- perhaps you guys only get the good stuff, not sure. 12:34:27 * Ray_work is a fan of Red Dwarf, Black Adder, and several others, whose titles don't come to mind. 12:34:51 He's mad about Benny Hill and Jasper Carrot. :) 12:35:08 yeah, there was a run of great comedy in the 70s and 80s. dried up a bit in my opinion, though small gems have been televised. spaced, for example, is particularly strong. 12:35:17 good old Jasp. 12:35:23 Ooh. Coupling is the best show ever made. Hollywood tried to do it but it went over the heads of the constituancy. 12:35:31 Coupling? 12:35:41 i'll tactfully avoid retching at this point. 12:35:46 :) 12:35:47 * zpg tactfully avoids retching 12:35:54 You didn't like it? 12:35:54 hmm, now where did i leave my tact? 12:36:00 hehe. 12:36:19 It's stuck to your thumb. 12:36:23 Thumb tact. 12:36:40 * zpg clutches his abdomen impained 12:37:04 Okay okay what about Rowan Atkinson(sp?) ? 12:37:38 Black Adder yes, Mr. Bean no. 12:37:40 didn't like Bean all that much, Not the Nine O' Clock News was sterling, and Black Adder brilliant. 12:38:07 coffee-fetching-time 12:38:20 We haven't got "Not the ... News" but we had something different the same. 12:38:44 Quartus: What about 12:39:03 "An American in Canada"? Funny but got old fast, no? 12:39:33 ohohoh the best best is "The Red Green Show". 12:39:58 Took me a while to figure out "Quando omni flunkus moritardi" but I did get it. 12:40:20 --- join: EdLin (n=vim@as5300-6.216-194-21-172.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) joined #forth 12:40:36 "An American in Canada" I saw about ten minutes of; it was completely unfunny. 12:41:44 The Rothchildes Septic Sucking Services commercials is one of the best routines I've ever seen on tv. 12:42:09 I don't know it. But if it involves excrement, it's undoubtedly very funny for most Americans. 12:42:55 ya, I suppose you are right. 12:43:35 How did i get on this tangent, anyway? These little pills definately help me focus and stay on task, i'll tell ya. 12:43:39 There's some very funny American humour, but the bodily-function stuff and the racial humour, while apparently really funny to the folks down there, doesn't travel well. 12:43:47 ya. 12:49:20 Not really thart funny, but it's all we are given from them who think they know better. 12:51:03 Don't know. I remember Monty Python did "The Policeman's (other) Ball" on stage in California some years ago; they Americanized it by adding repeated projectile vomiting to nearly every skit. It got the biggest laughs. 13:26:57 --- quit: timlarson___ ("Leaving") 13:28:59 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p548977C7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:31:30 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 13:33:36 hi all 13:33:45 Hi 13:53:50 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 14:05:34 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 14:05:54 :) 14:07:24 hi Ray_work and Robert 14:09:17 Hello there erider. How is the day going? 14:10:29 For Quartus' benefit: Since you left ##forth... nothin'. Absolutely nothing. You must have been the draw there. 14:10:32 the day is going well thanks and yourself? 14:10:57 I'm fine. Taking a late lunch and leaving as soon as my wife gets here. 14:20:36 Ray_work: will you be around later? 14:23:33 coffee'd up i be 14:26:24 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 14:26:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 14:27:10 hi slava 14:27:14 hi 14:27:54 hi guys 14:28:27 howdy erider 14:29:01 whats the word zpg 14:29:12 'hello' 14:29:15 hi 14:29:22 hi forther 14:29:24 hi forther 14:29:54 Ray_work: are you still there? 14:32:48 slava: i've been meaning to ask whether you still write forth, or favour factor instead? 14:32:59 i've never really programmed in forth 14:33:07 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 14:33:35 ah ok. so where did you develop the ideas for factor -- wholly on a conceptual level? 14:33:57 by programming in it 14:36:27 hmm, okay. but when did you opt for a stack architecture? was factor always going to be stack-based, did you read about forth, check out forth briefly, ...? 14:36:45 i've been aware of forth for a while 14:36:52 factor has always been stack based 14:37:45 okay, i'm just intrigued by that choice given a non-forthish background. 14:38:20 i studied many forth implementations and borrowed concepts 14:38:25 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:38:28 but i never wrote applications in forth, and can't imagine doing so. 14:38:56 unless one implements a subset of factor on top first. 14:49:57 i see. what did you programme in prior to using factor? 14:50:09 and equally: what led you to adopt the concatenative/stack-based model? 14:50:25 (just let me know if this is boring to recount, i'll shutup) 14:52:10 i programmed in java, with a bit of prolog, scheme and c 14:52:13 mostly java 14:52:32 i wanted to make a language based on ideas from Joy but suitable for writing applications 14:52:39 Joy is like a Forth/Lisp hybrid 14:52:53 but its very simplistic, and not implemented like a Forth (its a big wad of C code) 14:53:15 * zpg nods 14:54:13 --- quit: jackokring (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:58:22 --- join: nighty__ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 14:58:47 slava: do you have a factor's debian package somewhere available? 15:00:15 Cat looks quite interesting too. 15:10:18 --- quit: nighty_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:11:38 forther: no 15:18:50 --- quit: erider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:19:33 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 15:35:47 --- quit: vatic ("*poof*") 15:58:54 --- join: I440r_ (n=mark4@67.135.84.40) joined #forth 16:10:27 a subset of factor on top of forth? you must love your own creation 16:19:44 --- join: Zarutian_ (n=Zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 16:20:34 --- quit: Zarutian (Nick collision from services.) 16:20:59 --- nick: Zarutian_ -> Zarutian 16:42:49 --- quit: Teratogen (Remote closed the connection) 16:48:32 Hey. 16:50:29 --- quit: I440r (Nick collision from services.) 16:50:34 --- nick: I440r_ -> I440r 16:50:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 16:51:14 --- join: I440r__ (n=mark4@65.244.197.34) joined #forth 17:00:51 --- quit: forther ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 17:01:40 What's up? 17:03:10 Quartus: that depends on your frame of reference 17:03:38 Har. 17:04:56 Years ago, we use to share an office with a law firm. We used their PDP-8 at night for data processing. We got into a (as yet unheard of term) flamewar about what exactly it meant to "turn the thermostat up". 17:06:00 Our reply involved many diagrams, discussion of terminology, etc. Theirs involved "don't do it, or you lose the usage of the PDP-8". 17:08:08 The 8 could heat a room by itself. 17:08:22 Yep. 17:08:37 But on the bright side, at least we didn't have any hard drives to add heat :) 17:08:47 Nothing but good old RX01 floppies. 17:10:28 hi 17:10:34 Hey zpg. 17:10:39 howdy Quartus 17:10:41 But PDP-8s are so simple to operate, even a cat can do it. 17:10:43 http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8i/pics/med/cat_8i.jpg 17:14:13 --- join: Teratogen (i=leontopo@slashsnot.org) joined #forth 17:16:49 He looks like he's been taped to it. 17:29:28 Does the battery charging icon change to something else on the Palm when the battery is fully charged? 17:32:29 On the Vx? Trying to remember. 17:32:35 I think the charge light may go out. 17:32:44 No lights on the Vx. 17:32:56 Don't remember, then. 17:33:07 k 17:34:10 Any suggestions for a terminal program on the Palm? 17:34:52 I used one many moons ago on a IIIx... I don't remember what it was called, unfortunately. Have you tried the usual suspects? 17:36:51 I'm looking at PalmGear. I can't remember the other place. 17:36:57 PalmGears search engine is the pits. 17:37:08 Palm.com has an engine, and handango. 17:39:10 Ah, Handango. I need to bookmark those. 17:54:25 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-209-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:00:44 hmm, subsequencing a list seems to work quite nicely 18:02:08 meaning? 18:02:16 got gfx capabilities, Quartus? 18:03:10 Not as far as I know. 18:03:31 well, to answer your question, sublists. see http://ezil.sourceforge.net/latest/subseq.jpg if you can display it. 18:04:06 ah 18:04:29 Very nice. One terminal program doesn't go above 19200. One doesn't let you select a baud rate at all. And the third requires hardware handshaking before it will work. 18:05:13 I think that interface would do 38400. 18:05:39 the code is essentially: 18:05:40 Maybe even 112. 18:05:41 { this is a simple string } 18:05:41 dup list. 2 5 subseq list. 18:06:28 It'll do 57600 and 115200. I've already proven that. 18:06:46 And the one that looks most promising, it's website is down. 18:07:07 Ah right. 115200, that's the number I was reaching for. I used to run pilot-xfer at that rate, when I did it wired. 18:09:21 tty_master's screen shots show it allowing selectable flow control methods, but archive.org doesn't have a copy, and his site is down. 18:09:23 How frusterating. 18:09:31 I don't know if you could keep up with displaying scrolling data at more than 19200 on that machine. 18:10:40 I used to program Cisco hardware with a IIIxe, using a null-adapter cable. 18:11:14 Luckily, once the application is up, it just spits out status strings periodically (once or twice a second), about 20 characters worth. 18:11:24 So is the speed important? 18:12:16 I don't need the speed, but the boxes are all pre-programmed at that speed. Changing it would make the box different from others. 18:12:36 I support 57600 because we upload new code over the serial port. I don't need the Palm to do that, I just want it for a status display in the car. 18:13:06 If you just want to display incoming strings once or twice a second, you could write that in Quartus Forth. 18:13:21 I could wire up a DB-9/DB-9 to fake out the hardware flow control. 18:13:38 Yea, I thought about writing a minimal terminal program to do that. I may yet. 18:14:28 As you may have heard me mention, these boxes are data collectors for vehicles. They have GPS, OBD-II, cellphones, etc in them. I've decided that I'd like to collect the data for my drive to and from work. Then... 18:15:23 I will take the data and normalize the plot to a straight line. I'll note where the various speed limits are along the drive, then plot the color as a function of actual speed vs speed limit. Red indicates stopped, green indicates >= speed limit. 18:15:44 colorDrive. 18:16:06 Then, using the vertical axis as time, I'll plot each line vertically. I should be able to see if there is any pattern to when the traffic snarls occur. Perhaps by adjusting my leaving time, I can optimize by drive for minimum time. 18:16:36 And while I already know at what points the snarls occur, it'll be interesting to see it graphically. 18:16:38 Wow, that's serious Rain-Man stuff. If you're that obsessed you should be writing your own terminal app RIGHT NOW. 18:17:25 Why leave at 8:15 and spend 50 minutes driving when I can leave at 8:25 and spend 40 minutes. Waste less fuel, waste less time. 18:17:58 My first thought it that it's probably unreliably 50 minutes at 8:15, and unreliably 40 minutes at 8:25. Too many factors. 18:19:06 There are other factors, of course. Weather, wrecks, the generally stupidity of human nature and people in Hummers. 18:19:11 Right. 18:19:30 I can factor in weather. The rest, doubtful. Nonetheless, the plots alone would be interesting. 18:19:30 And people driving like maniacs with a hard-core expectation of a 40-minute trip based on their projected GPS plots. 18:26:20 Naw, I'm pretty mellow that way. 18:26:30 I just starting firing wildly out the window with the .357. 18:33:21 --- quit: zpg ("night") 18:43:44 hey when you use swap does it dup the element on the stack? because we I tried it in retro it did 18:47:55 --- quit: erider ("I don't sleep because sleep is the cousin of death!") 19:47:42 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@12.18.108.162) joined #forth 20:06:11 hello 20:15:43 hey 20:17:30 how are you this evening. I think I snagged that dpans94 pdf from your site earlier today 20:17:42 Doing ok. Useful doc, that one. 20:18:18 Handier than the actual ISO Standard PDF, which is scanned from a printed source! 20:18:34 I think I ended up printing the sections I wanted from the html version thow 20:18:52 Well, whatever format; same info. 20:32:08 on phone 20:54:52 ok, back now 20:55:25 ok 20:55:48 have a long distance woman friend. She's disabled and housebound. 20:56:00 has a Zaurus 20:56:08 SL5500 20:56:13 I think that's the one I have. 20:57:27 she's been doggedly learning how to fix things on it with bash scripts, and some other apps she needed (a medicine/water timer app in bash) 20:57:51 you'd have to be dogged; the keyboard is tiny, and it eats battery. 20:58:37 I think she runs it on the external power pack 21:02:52 so from my short review of that DPANS it looks like a cold start of the interpreter would start by executing ABORT 21:03:00 when then does QUIT 21:03:12 which does QUIT 21:03:22 Yes, though normally a cold start initialized the dictionary. 21:03:55 well yeah whatever else needed initializing 21:04:21 Right. ABORT only clears the stack and then calls QUIT which clears the return stack and starts the console loop. 21:05:11 that's section 3.4 I 've got it here 21:06:03 The console loop, right. That's 3.4. 21:18:09 --- join: arke_ (n=Chris@pD9E0724B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 21:23:39 hi arke_ 21:24:27 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 21:25:45 --- quit: arke (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 21:27:52 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:54:01 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 23:06:40 --- quit: Crest (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:06:40 --- quit: JasonWoof (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:06:40 --- quit: nanstm (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:06:40 --- quit: Quartus (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:06:40 --- quit: Robert (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:06:52 --- join: Crest (n=crest@p548977C7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:07:09 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-95-252-208.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:26:09 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 23:26:40 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@unaffiliated/herkamire) joined #forth 23:26:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 23:26:47 --- join: saon (i=1000@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth 23:30:46 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:30:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus 23:54:47 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.11.01