00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.10.31 00:52:00 --- quit: segher (Nick collision from services.) 00:52:12 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-165-249.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 01:32:15 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:33:51 --- join: arke (i=Chris@x224.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 02:33:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 04:12:57 --- quit: neceve_ (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:12:57 --- quit: Snoopy42 (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:12:57 --- quit: timlarson (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:14:29 --- join: neceve_ (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 04:14:29 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-144-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:14:29 --- join: timlarson (n=timlarso@user-12l325b.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 04:15:51 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-144-129.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:19:59 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 04:20:04 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 04:55:55 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-68-95-252-208.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 05:05:20 --- join: azekeprofit (i=azekePro@82.200.251.118) joined #forth 05:19:38 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:20:29 --- join: arke (i=Chris@x364.vpn.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de) joined #forth 05:20:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 05:34:02 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-514d7663.l2.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 05:41:37 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 05:42:15 --- join: azekeprofit (n=azekePro@82.200.251.118) joined #forth 05:43:52 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 05:48:57 --- quit: zpg (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:52:45 --- join: zpg (n=user@user-514d7663.l2.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk) joined #forth 05:58:55 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 06:10:40 --- quit: nighty__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:16:19 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:16:53 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:33:46 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:46:19 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:47:14 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@12.18.108.162) joined #forth 06:49:24 hi 07:01:19 --- join: forther (n=forther@c-67-180-209-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:05:36 --- quit: nighty_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:05:38 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 07:10:00 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-097-034.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 07:11:15 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 07:16:52 hi 07:17:27 Hi 07:18:15 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 07:18:24 --- join: azekeprofit (n=azekePro@82.200.251.118) joined #forth 07:18:26 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 07:24:12 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 07:28:32 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 07:36:28 --- quit: neceve_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 07:39:59 --- join: neceve_ (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:41:06 --- quit: nighty (No route to host) 07:44:19 hey 07:45:26 hey 07:45:31 hi Ray_work 07:48:28 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 07:55:19 okay, very quick question. imagine we wanted a non-destructive if, which we'll call 'dif' 07:55:36 how would you write it such that else and then can still see dif as an if word?\ 07:56:08 i.e., : myword ... dif ... else ... then ; 07:58:01 what forth are you using? 07:58:30 gforth 07:58:36 The only non distructive if i've run into is in colorforth. 07:59:35 dup before your if statement. that will make any if non-distructive. 07:59:36 yep 07:59:40 i know i know 07:59:53 : dif dup if ; 07:59:58 that doesn't work 08:00:20 the if is immediately compiled and comes back with an 'unstructured' error 08:00:34 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 08:00:35 adding a postpone is the only other method i know 08:00:39 oh yeah hehe 08:01:09 : dif dup postpone if ; 08:01:24 mmhmm 08:01:33 try it 08:01:36 I don't have a gforth at work to test. 08:01:43 : haha 5 1 = dif ." haha" else ." hehe" then ; 08:01:59 I do have an ans quarus forth on my Palm... 08:02:01 "*the terminal*:146: expected control flow stack item" <-- this is for ELSE which can't see an IF 08:04:13 ya. 08:04:29 * Ray_work has a customer, but I'll start testing that stuff on the Palm in a bit. 08:04:46 k, i have to head out now 08:04:49 shall check back shortly. 08:05:49 but as a footnote -- this is a question about branching, not actually writing a 'dif' -- the latter is to see how one would implement such a thing. dup if is, of course, much clearer. also, i often DO want the flag consumed. 08:09:27 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 08:10:03 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 08:10:51 Got it. 08:10:58 I mean, I understand. 08:11:43 * Ray_work checks around to see if (if) consumes. 08:12:46 --- quit: forther ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 08:13:43 * Ray_work figures you can't return from the stack after putting the if address down and before else and then have a chance to patch the address. 08:18:30 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 08:19:18 hi all 08:19:35 Hi 08:19:55 hi erider hi Robert. Good morning to you both. 08:20:41 good morning 08:21:14 hey Ray_work I completed that tutorial thanks 08:21:22 Good evening :) 08:21:31 hi Robert 08:23:37 erider: "Starting Forth" ? 08:23:46 You finished "SF"? 08:32:07 I can't remember that title 08:38:26 erider, what is good about haskell 08:44:15 virl: I'm not a haskell expert so you would need to ask in #haskell 08:44:43 they will answer your question 08:44:52 And keep on answering for days. 08:48:12 lol 08:56:24 --- join: jackokring (n=jackokri@static-195-248-105-144.adsl.hotchilli.net) joined #forth 09:01:23 --- nick: Ray_work -> Ray-o-lantern 09:01:33 Happy Halloween! 09:03:38 * Ray-o-lantern is wearing his Halloween nick. 09:11:04 No halloween here... except what we've imported from the US 09:11:46 --- nick: crest_ -> Crest 09:18:07 --- nick: Ray-o-lantern -> Ray-o 09:18:20 --- nick: Ray-o -> Ray-o-lantern 09:23:34 wah.. halloween, one thing that shouldn't be imported. 09:28:39 why not. It's prob'ly the most harmless thing we export. 09:29:31 http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html -- speaking of Halloween. 09:30:28 well I don't like the kids who ring at my door 09:30:55 Look crazier. 09:41:42 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 09:45:15 Robert: Do folks in your parts of the world celebrate Walpurgisnacht? 09:45:24 Yeah. 09:45:36 We burn witches and do fireworks. 09:45:51 OK, no witches, just empty fires these days. 09:45:58 :) 09:53:22 --- join: tathi (n=Joshua@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 09:53:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 09:53:38 tathi? Is that really you? 09:53:52 Hi Ray :) 09:54:00 How was the farm? 09:54:05 Or is? 09:54:08 is 09:54:23 I have Tuesdays off -- I came home this time 09:54:29 it's all right 09:54:39 gorgeous piece of property 09:54:54 the owners don't really know their stuff though 09:54:54 I'm sure. NY, right? 09:55:00 hmm. 09:55:01 lousy managers :( 09:55:10 yeah, NY 09:55:11 really? What could you improve? 09:55:25 about 40 minutes east of Binghamton 09:55:42 They just don't plan ahead very well 09:56:23 so as a result, we get behind on things, and of course it's always much more work to catch them up than it would be to deal with it originally 09:56:29 so we get further behind, and so on... 09:56:43 but still...I'm having fun 09:56:54 turns out I rather like farming :) 09:56:55 Shame. Still, work is work. 09:57:11 Do you? That's great. I've often wondered if I could hack it. 09:57:17 working in the dirt, with the animals, etc. 09:57:28 yeah, it's hard work. 09:57:37 I hadn't realized how out of shape I had let myself get. 09:57:50 :) 09:58:21 Nice to be back at the point where I can come off a 10-hour workday and still have energy to spare :) 09:58:26 So how's by you? 09:58:36 Any cool programming projects? 09:58:43 How's folendar coming? 10:00:47 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 10:03:13 tathi much has changed for my since we last spoke. I'm diabetic, I have ADHD, and I take medication for both. I have a Palm Vx from vatic ( met him in here somewhere) and have been codeing Quartus Forth on it. FolEndar is going slow. I've got several made up and I'm going to be snail-mailing a few examples about soon. 10:05:47 hrm. sorry to hear about the health problems. 10:06:09 I imagine you're enjoying Quartus Forth though 10:17:28 ADHD? 10:18:40 Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder 10:26:40 so he is hyperactive? aha.. ok.. so he needs Ritalin? 10:26:51 virl: adhd ... no comment ^^ 10:27:05 no comment? 10:27:13 sry, but I don't understand 10:28:18 good to know that i'm not the only one here with it^^ 10:31:23 and that means that you can't follow a conversation? or do something without thinking? 10:33:27 i can follow a conservation without problems as long as i'm interessted in the conservation 10:33:56 it's not the worst form an got better over time 10:34:20 *and 10:35:45 aha.. well for me that's not a dysfunction 10:37:01 ah, but you're not an American medical doctor :P 10:37:50 * Crest is back (gone 11:37:51) 10:39:21 that's true tathi it seems that american doctors like it to diagnose no real sicknesses or stupid solutions for them like ritalin or in old days lobotomy. ah, I love them, I hope they die painfully it would be better for the mankind. 10:42:58 Crest, I'm 43 and just recently diagnosed with ADHD. I take welbutrin. 10:53:33 --- quit: tathi ("Leaving") 10:54:46 --- part: Ray-o-lantern left #forth 10:55:07 --- join: Ray-o-lantern (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 11:07:45 --- join: forther (n=forther@h-66-166-144-210.snvacaid.covad.net) joined #forth 11:25:09 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.2) joined #forth 11:25:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 11:35:45 hey. What's up? 11:36:22 Large amounts of silence. 11:37:51 hi 11:42:28 working on anything? 11:42:42 hi Quartus_ 11:42:50 hi ray, neal 11:43:02 well, i was out all afternoon, but have been pondering this branching issue. did you see Quartus_? 11:43:08 (, Quartus_) 11:44:44 zpg, I expect that you can't separate an if from its else or then with a ; 11:44:59 Does that make sence to you? 11:45:53 : dup-if dup if ; <-- this semi-colon gets in the way, is what I'm thinking. 11:48:32 Ray-o-lantern: we've already established that that definition won't compile. 11:49:26 Sure, but i'm thinking that's why. 11:50:18 I'm wondering if (if) is stact destructive. 11:50:19 well, one is offered various words for changing the nature of compilation. 11:50:46 so this isn't "how do i?" -- it's primarily a "can i?" question to better understand (a) branching (b) the compilation process. 11:51:04 I'm betting yes you can. 11:51:13 Got any money? :) 11:51:38 (if) is the runtime version of 'if'. 'if' itself compiled '(if)' and wraps it in some compiler security. 11:52:31 ya and I'm wondering if it consumes the stack or leaves it alone. 11:52:37 is (if) the same as [if] ? 11:53:00 If (if) didn't consume, what exactly would? 11:53:13 Because we know that at run-time, 'if' does indeed consume. 11:53:23 I don't know what [if] is, zpg. 11:53:53 Shouldn't : dif postpone dup postpone if ; immediate do what you want? 11:55:15 Seems to work for me, at least in gforth. Dunno about QF. 11:55:17 [if] is a compiler directive, you can use it to create a large section of text in your source with [then] to follow. 11:55:37 jcwren that's the answer then. I was nearly there. 11:55:53 yes it does for me. 11:55:55 : check 5 5 = dif ." Yes!" else ." No" then ." -- flag = " . ; 11:56:15 Yeah! where's my money? 11:56:15 neat, thanks for your help. i wasn't using immediate in my tests. 11:56:16 :) 11:56:35 ah. 11:56:36 Ya, and I didn't have an interpreter, for my excuse. 11:59:32 Ray-o-lantern: http://ezil.sourceforge.net/latest/dup-if.jpg 12:03:07 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:03:23 Neat! :) 12:04:12 good for a 5/4 rounder in a calculator ap. :) 12:04:35 change = to >= I suppose. 12:05:58 hmm? 12:06:11 all that 'check' does is compare two numbers. 12:12:21 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 12:12:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 12:12:44 sorry, lost connectivity 12:13:13 don't know if you got that sorted, but. : dup-if postpone dup postpone if ; immediate 12:16:28 yes Quartus_ -- http://ezil.sourceforge.net/latest/dup-if.jpg 12:16:46 can't see that from here 12:16:51 a stupid example, but illustrates the point. 12:16:52 ah ok 12:17:12 : dup-if postpone dup postpone if ; immediate 12:17:44 : check 5 = dup-if ." Yes!" else ." No" then ." -- flag = " . ; 12:17:56 3 check 2 check (etc.) 12:17:57 zpg I'm sorry, I should have pre qualified my last statment like... With few changes you can turn check into a 5/4 rounder for a calculator ap. 12:18:27 but Ray-o-lantern, you're talking about turning "=" into a rounder. there's nothing else there. 12:19:22 not just = but >= . then with the flag return you do the deed. 12:20:00 --- join: EdLin (n=vim@as5300-3.216-194-7-201.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) joined #forth 12:21:24 : check 5 >= ; ? 12:22:55 I'm sorry, I'm a tab busy here and dont' always have time to make full statments. /me will just bow out for now but the thing would be more like... 12:23:31 : check 5 >= dup-if abs + ; I believe. 12:23:47 forgot the then. 12:24:06 you're calling abs on a flag? 12:24:21 why not. turns it into a number 0 or 1 right? 12:24:29 no 12:25:05 you returned the flag as a number -1 right? I just took off the sign and added it in. works for both conditions and auto rounds. 12:25:24 * Ray-o-lantern late lunch, 1hour bye. 12:25:27 perhaps i don't follow what you're trying to do. 12:25:34 differnt forth systems gerate differt results by comparisons most 0 and -1 but some ( e.g. neon ) 0 and 1 12:29:21 *generate 12:32:42 You're not going to spell correct 'differnt'? 12:32:57 Or 'differt'? 12:33:18 :/ 12:33:33 it's still understandable 12:33:50 Yes, it is. Which is why I wondered why you corrected 'gerate' 12:34:19 i written english isn't that well especally when i permanently switch between german and english 12:34:24 *my 12:35:28 For the most part, I've given up correcting my spelling, unless it really is unclear. I figure after a few paragraphs, most people can figure out if English is not your primary language, you're a bad speller, or a bad typist. In my case, it's almost always bad typing. 12:36:32 you're both writing comprehensible english -- i wouldn't worry. 12:36:48 i don't worry 12:37:50 and after reading 30 pages of english text without being interrupted using other languages it get's much better 12:38:06 Worrying leads to stress. Stress leads to anger. Anger leads to the dark side. 12:38:28 ;) 12:38:52 you forgot one stage: anger leads to hate 12:38:53 How many languages can you read or speak, Crest? 12:40:15 german, english and a little bit french ( i dislike this language ) c, ppc asm, cdp 1802 asm, forth, and a couple of over programming languages ;) 12:40:34 Neat, I got a tube full of 1802s. 12:40:36 oooh, a fellow 1802'er. 12:40:41 Haven't coded anything for them though. 12:40:47 i have 5 of them 12:40:51 but only the chips 12:40:56 no systems to use them 12:41:01 Do you know which suffix parts you have, Robert? 12:41:32 CDP1802E 12:41:47 I built a nixie clock around the 1802, 1879, 1822, and some glue parts. 12:41:51 cpp1802ace 12:42:10 Cool :) 12:42:49 with rtc and interrupts or by dividing the clock freq? 12:43:13 * Robert has a few nixie tubes too... but I'm lazy. 12:43:18 A lazy packrat. 12:43:31 Robert, your parts have the extended voltage range (4V to 10.5V) , but having some timing quirk that the 'A' parts fix. The 'A' parts are 4V to 5.5V. 12:43:37 6.5V 12:43:47 RTC (the 1879). 12:44:24 Ah, well... I got them on a flea market without knowing what they were, so I'm not very disappointed. 12:44:28 a few days ago i couldn't sleep so i wrote a little clock programm for a pdp8/e printig the seconds since "booting" ( counted in a 24 bit counter ) 12:44:33 I have a few dozen nixies (all sorts), but built the clock from a display board out of something that used XN3s. 1 has died, and 2 are fading. The other 3 seem OK. 12:44:42 Crest: You have a PDP8? 12:44:49 robert: no 12:44:50 Geez, another PDP-8'er! Me too. 12:44:58 just an emulator 12:45:04 Ah. 12:45:09 I have 3 of the Spare Time Gizmos boards. 12:45:19 It looks nice, but I've never used any. 12:45:22 i wanted to learn a bit about the using the isa 12:45:37 --- join: tathi (n=Joshua@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 12:45:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o tathi 12:45:38 it's much more usable than it looks 12:45:50 hey tathi. 12:46:11 hey Quartus 12:46:28 With the 6120 processor. I've also got a FP6120 front panel, although I have yet to mount the damn thing in a frame. 12:47:46 Quartus_: I hear you're writing a book on forth? 12:48:02 Supposedly, Forth Inc did a Forth for the PDP-8. It's basically dead, but they won't release it into the public domain. 12:48:19 :( 12:48:22 I do have a copy of a Forth (FIG, maybe?) for the 1802. 12:48:43 I only have FIG-Forth for the 6502. 12:48:48 It is... how do you say in English? "Very slow" 12:49:40 ca. 3mhz / ( 2 or 3 ) * 6 instructions per second so what do you expect? 12:49:50 Exactly. 12:49:56 And no 16 bit register transfers, either. 12:50:05 i forgot a pair of braces 12:50:43 Someone has a Cosmac Elf emulator that runs on the Palm. 12:51:14 their also exists a mac os x emulator 12:51:24 *a emluator that runs on osx 12:52:35 but what realy sucks is the video chip that steals cycles from the cpu, forces you to use about half the possible speed 12:53:36 But only if you use the CDP1861 or the TDA part. You can wire up one of the many video controllers that have local memory. 12:53:58 http://www.elf-emulation.com/elfos.html This is a neat little OS Mike has written. Does quite a bit. 12:55:24 I've got wander off to teach a completely computer illiterate friend of mine how to use a laptop someone gave him, and setup his DSL connection. Ciao. 12:56:19 ^^ 13:04:06 --- join: arke (n=Chris@pD9E068BA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:04:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 13:05:22 hi arkke 13:05:48 --- nick: nanstm -> tiff 13:06:44 --- part: azekeprofit left #forth 13:16:53 --- join: erider_ (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 13:19:53 Quartus is icon an algol language? 13:19:56 --- quit: erider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:20:19 --- nick: erider_ -> erider 13:22:03 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 13:22:20 yah, wikipedia says so 13:22:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_programming_language 13:24:36 hmm interesting then 13:24:48 how's that? 13:25:03 I have to look for something that is different style of programming 13:25:20 what for? 13:25:30 oh, trying to expand your programming horizons? 13:26:06 Quartus was saying the one should learn different types of languages 13:26:13 yes 13:27:36 I want my toolbox to have C, lisp, Asm and I looking for some others 13:28:41 tathi: the were talking about smalltalk yesterday 13:28:47 do you use that language? 13:29:03 I played with it a while back 13:29:05 nice language 13:29:13 i don't like smalltalk much 13:29:43 compared with C? 13:29:45 why? what were the drawbacks and the plus 13:29:55 no, compared to other languages in the same class 13:30:11 ah. such as? 13:30:15 common lisp 13:31:01 I like C its a very flexible language however I don't want to be married to one technique :) 13:33:03 yeah, common lisp does seem to have a lot going for it 13:33:06 and I think lisp is a funnier language for me to code in however I'm trying to language forth. Its a neat language but its is a little harder than I had expected 13:33:32 s/language/learn 13:36:34 erider: it's hard to learn forth if you don' t have a project to code, indeed. There are levels of expertise as well. 13:37:18 true Ray-o-lantern 13:37:45 I can't think of something I would like to code with forth 13:38:52 This is why i code simple chess games. To learn a language. It's what I use for helloworld. 13:39:40 Ray-o-lantern: what were you building blocks to start 13:39:46 Basically, you wanna take input, you wanna manipulate that input, you wanna display that input. 13:40:01 erider, I tend to start with the display. 13:40:19 so the chess board 13:40:30 I'll put a dot on the screen. Then a box, then several boxes, then the pieces, you know on and on... 13:40:54 This way, I can see what the result of input is. 13:41:00 immediately. 13:41:55 Ray-o-lantern: interesting 13:43:13 Then I'll look into what kind of file handling a language has. 13:43:26 you know, to store and read in persistant data. 13:44:30 Somewhere in there is dealing with devices and their drivers, should you have to. 13:45:26 Then I'll look into what kind of communications between machines a language will support. I haven't done much of that, but would like to start experimenting with that kind of thing next. 13:45:36 so you are learning each element as you go 13:45:53 Yes, I'm a self taught programming hobbyiest. 13:47:01 I may or maynot have enough education to do it for a living, I don't know, never really looked into it. 13:47:26 Be neat to code for a living. With the Palm now, I'm codeing every free minute. 13:47:53 Currently working on a ChuckBot for the Palm using Quartus Forth, evaluation version. 13:48:01 I have started on the irc chess game 13:48:32 neat! Can't wait to see where you take it. :) 13:48:54 oops I meant have you started 13:51:32 Oh, well, I have the chess Game in an Rx based RetroForth. I need to get crc to explain to me how his irc client works. 13:52:00 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:52:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o Quartus_ 13:52:54 I have the code for his irc client 13:53:02 Ray-o-lantern: are you on linux 13:53:58 Then the client could be added to, so that it sends like 12 lines of output on every move. A blank line or two between boards, a line with the top-of-board-players name, the file letters, 8 ranks of the board, more file letters and the second players name. possibly a display of the most recent moves on the side of the board as well. 13:54:01 he gave the Socket Api syscalls names 13:54:53 I haven't started up a linux maybe all year, but I have to set up one of my old pentium II's. 13:55:24 his irc client currently on runs on linux 13:55:58 yea. not a problem. At first it will just be a *nix only game. :) 13:56:24 boo 13:56:25 most clients give you a way to run scripts... 13:58:25 erider: scrolling up i see discussion of smalltalk and toolbelts. i'd suggest that one at a time is probably better than trying to cover all at once. you need to give attention to the methods and philosophy of distinct languages (that's not applicable across perl-python-c-pascal, perhaps -- but certainly smalltalk-forth-lisp-c) 13:58:58 so what you would want is to be able to make codes like move Q b4 13:59:18 --- quit: tathi ("Leaving") 13:59:39 erider: also, i'm not sure what your involvement in Fisp is exactly, nor your knowledge of lisp, but it would seem wise to have good grounding in both forth and lisp before trying to amalgamate the two. 14:00:30 erider, an easier version would be to do something like board co-ordinates, which are themselves a subset of Chess Algebra Notation. like e2e4 for the white king pawns open. 14:01:20 zpg: that language is being created in C to start 14:01:39 that's easier to code at first, and then stuff like Nxe5 becomes just translating to the board co-ords. 14:01:40 So I'm ok in C I'm just lazy 14:02:27 you can use perl to parse the channel 14:02:58 I'm done know if you can use forth for regex 14:03:21 don't* 14:03:23 factor has a parser combinators library which is more powerful than regex 14:03:36 the implementation language has nothing to do with borrowing language concepts. 14:05:06 I not that familiar with the complete capabilities of forth so I wasn't sure how it would handle the parse of a channels 14:06:22 zpg: so you would say smalltalk, lisp and forth are good to know 14:06:38 i'm only just learning forth. but yes. 14:06:59 hmm, You know, I haven't tryed parsing anything more the a letter at a time, with forth, yet. /me thinks up a project to learn. 14:07:01 so you are only learning forth only? 14:07:05 there aren't any languages that are bad to know. 14:07:40 BASIC? isn't BASIC at least frowned apon? 14:08:10 if it's the only one you know. Knowing only one is always bad. 14:08:18 I've heard it teaches bad habits, but I never knew what those habits are. 14:08:25 :) 14:08:27 Ray-o-lantern: I talk the back crc parse with irc client 14:08:41 s/talk/take 14:08:58 cool. 14:09:09 I wanna see what thats like. 14:10:46 parsing is a much-used word. Forth's PARSE word doesn't parse, not in the widely-accepted sense. 14:10:51 he has to parse to get just the text from the channel to display 14:11:26 Quartus would Forth's PARSE be more like an input word? 14:11:50 it's akin to strtok() in C. 14:12:55 it's a scanner, or tokenizer, that's bound to the input source. 14:17:46 I 14:18:11 see. 14:18:16 thanks. 14:21:19 a kind of : BEGIN key dup copy2somewhere $20 = UNTIL ; immediate 14:21:36 In fact PARSE doesn't copy anything anywhere. 14:22:06 --- part: juri_ left #forth 14:22:11 I don't have PARSE in colorforth. The bytecode is already tokenized. 14:22:12 oh does it leave the string in the tib? 14:22:33 Yes, it just returns the string specification. 14:23:34 it's more-or-less : parse ( c -- str u ) >r unparsed-input r> scan prefix ; 14:24:19 : parse ( c -- str u ) >r unparsed-input 2dup r> scan prefix ; 14:24:31 You think I'd learn not to extemporize Forth. :) 14:25:02 --- quit: neceve_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 14:25:58 Chat seems to create a false sense of urgency. :) 14:26:03 incidentally, Quartus: http://ezil.sourceforge.net/latest/tokens-forth.jpg 14:26:08 i ported the QF stuff to gforth this evening 14:26:17 'ported' meaning commenting out headers :P 14:27:30 Can't get that image to come up. 14:27:46 refresh a bit. sourceforge is pretty sluggish. 14:27:46 oh there it is. You know we do have a pastebin. :) 14:27:53 heh yes 14:28:08 the image is to demonstrate what this forth stuff looks like to the programmer. i was showing some lispers. 14:28:14 is that Comic Sans MS? 14:28:21 Monaco 14:28:49 A kind of monospace Comic Sans MS. That would drive me batty. 14:29:09 i don't see how it has anything to do with Comic 14:29:21 Looks kind of similar in the upstrokes. 14:29:49 emacs session with smaller font here: similar here: 14:29:50 erm 14:29:54 http://ezil.sourceforge.net/screenshots/basic-code.jpg 14:31:39 Not for me. Lately I've been working in Bitstream Vera Sans Mono. 14:32:45 ah ok. i just decided to try out Monaco in a large format. 14:33:22 damnit, i can't transfer IPA to the Palm since the builtin font isn't unicode. so much for that plan. 14:33:39 No unicode on the Palm to my knowledge. 14:34:02 ah well, i'll remain laptop bound then. heading downstairs for tea and tinkering, back shortly. 14:34:10 hehe zpg took me a bit to realize that { and } were words :) 14:34:18 good evening 14:34:25 Hi crc. 14:34:30 Happy Halloween crc! 14:34:49 Trick or Treat? 14:34:56 sleep :) 14:35:10 :) how's Tammy? 14:35:15 she is resting 14:35:37 Good. I trust the surgury went ok? 14:35:41 yes 14:35:53 Thank goodness for that. 14:36:13 Does she have a bell? 14:36:16 no 14:36:22 :) 14:36:26 Shame. 14:36:46 It's times like these where we learn how much we rely on our wives. 14:36:49 she is in bed, less than 15' from the computer. I can hear her just fine 14:36:50 Quartus how are you today 14:38:53 Trivia question> isn't car and cdr the initials to the names of registers on some ancient metal? 14:39:17 Ray-o-lantern: yes 14:39:19 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 14:39:24 sort of 14:39:49 I thought I read that somewhere, possible McCarthy's site. 14:39:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and_cdr 14:40:25 DUCK Well, if you gonna throw the encyclopedia at me. :) 14:40:42 Doing ok thanks. 14:45:14 contents, that's what I was missing. Contents of address or decrement registers, and I type this to get it to stay in my memory. 14:46:12 --- join: Kbomb (n=Kbomb@nc-69-68-91-233.dyn.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 14:49:25 --- quit: Kbomb (Remote closed the connection) 14:55:14 --- quit: segher (Nick collision from services.) 14:55:26 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-191-070.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:56:27 There was a class of IBM 704 machine instructions that had opcode/address/decrement fields. 14:57:08 CAR and CDR were 704 assembler macros that extracted the address and decrement fields, and the remaining bits were used as a type flag. 14:58:05 I was just reading that. Very interesting stuff. 14:58:24 * Ray-o-lantern must part for home. See ya all there. 14:58:33 So CAR and CDR weren't machine instructions, just abstractions. 14:58:52 --- join: Zarutian (n=Zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 14:59:02 Yes. 14:59:12 --- quit: Ray-o-lantern (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:19:16 --- quit: erider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:19:58 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 15:22:24 Unstructured BASIC is historically frowned-on as a first language, as it teaches very bad habits. 15:23:00 Most modern BASICs are structured. Visual BASIC is another animal entirely, of course; it's another kind of bad. 15:23:05 huh? 15:23:42 erider, I can't answer 'huh?' except by making a similar grunting noise. 15:24:28 sorry I didn't follow the conversation 15:27:24 Quartus how is the book coming? 15:27:35 Not too badly. Lots of work still tod o. 15:27:37 to do. 15:29:51