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06:40:29 <Ray_work> Request to the person with the forthlinks.com page... Quartus Forth under implementations heading please.
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07:43:17 <snowrichard> good mornign
07:43:22 <snowrichard> morning even
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07:57:34 <zpg> afternoon all.
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09:38:06 <Ray_work> afternoon zpg, how's the day?
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10:57:26 <Quartus> Hey
10:57:40 <Ray_work> Hey, hey.
10:58:15 <Ray_work> Palm Vx has QF running the Hello stuff from the manual. ( i'm supposed to be earning a living...)
10:59:25 <Quartus> Heh. This could be a whole new career.
10:59:46 <Ray_work> I don't see a chess at your site just yet? Do you know of one?
11:00:02 <Quartus> In Forth?  I don't think anybody's done one under Quartus.
11:00:13 <Ray_work> :)
11:00:40 <Quartus> There's more than one chess-playing program available though; Chess Genius, for instance.
11:00:51 <Ray_work> Soon as I get the Pay-to-play version....
11:00:59 <Quartus> Or the venerable Pocket Chess, which played pretty poorly.
11:01:19 <Ray_work> oh I should do a global search of the globe.
11:02:26 <Ray_work> I saw some fitness software that I might be able to adapt for diabetic.
11:02:58 <Ray_work> Be nice if I had a $29.95 product to sell. 
11:03:57 <Quartus> Start small, work up.
11:03:59 <Ray_work> wait $49.95 and the re-seller makes 40% so they make $19.98...
11:04:40 <Ray_work> So, that means I end up making 2 centavos more then I thought. 29.97
11:04:44 <Quartus> There are other options. My sales via RegSoft only lose 8 or 9%, as I recall.
11:05:07 <Ray_work> Oh thats the carge card co fee?
11:05:11 <Ray_work> charge even
11:05:13 <Ray_work> ?
11:07:31 <Quartus> It includes that.
11:08:13 <Ray_work> I assumed.
11:08:35 <Ray_work> oh, then what else is included? Hosting?
11:08:38 <Quartus> And covers all of the headaches. People can purchase by phone, mail, what-have-you.
11:08:47 <Ray_work> ah sure, check?
11:08:54 <Ray_work> m/order?
11:08:56 <Quartus> Checks too.  They deal with chargebacks, do fraud protection, offer download services.
11:08:58 <Ray_work> all that right?
11:09:06 <Ray_work> excellent, worth the money.
11:09:14 <Quartus> Takes the hassles out of your hands.
11:10:44 <Ray_work> I haven't figured out when I can get the full version yet, I'm sorry. These new "things" going on in my life are taking much of my resources. 
11:10:55 <Ray_work> I may have to do something else for a living here.
11:11:17 <Ray_work> Or something in addition. I don't wanna.
11:11:29 <Quartus> I know the feeling.
11:11:53 <Ray_work> hmm, I suppose I could sell something. 
11:19:36 <Quartus> A $5 app or two would be a start.
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11:22:02 <Ray_work> hehe, I wasn't thinking ap but I don't know why.
11:22:11 <Ray_work> I was thinking some personal effects.
11:22:27 <Quartus> ah.
11:23:39 <Ray_work> ooh ooh, ChuckBot!
11:23:47 <Ray_work> Now that's worth 5 bucks. 
11:23:55 <Quartus> Why not :)
11:24:26 <Ray_work> It's fun, It can be used as a programing teaching aid at all levels of the program... Why not, indeed!
11:28:27 <Ray_work> Quartus: have you ever seen Karel the Robot in action?
11:28:43 <Quartus> I recall an article about it.
11:29:58 <zpg> re: chess on the palm, openChess is really good.
11:30:05 <Ray_work> Not a killer ap, but it has appeal, it has utility, it has function, and it is fun and educational. Think that's my 5 dollar Palm progy.
11:30:14 <Ray_work> Okay thanks zpg.
11:30:21 <Quartus> Ray_work, sounds like a plan.
11:30:25 <Ray_work> I'll look for it when I get home.
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11:32:10 <zpg> i believe openchess is based on gnu chess v.2. my housemate is a chess afficiando, and has trouble with level 2/3 on openchess. good ai.
11:32:25 <zpg> i like the interface, that's as far as my understanding of chess goes though :)
11:32:39 <Quartus> I don't enjoy playing chess with gadgets.
11:33:13 <Ray_work> zpg does it play beaming between players, do you think?
11:33:16 <zpg> well, compared to the ghastly interface on this mac, the palm screen and stylus make for really nice gameplay i'm told.
11:33:23 <zpg> Ray_work: i believe so, let me check
11:33:31 <Quartus> I don't mean the interface -- I mean playing against any computer.  It's a human game.
11:33:37 * Ray_work stops being lazy and looks too
11:34:07 <Ray_work> YES! Quartus! I agree, and i've said that many times when people ask me why no ai yet.
11:34:40 <zpg> Ray_work: surely the 'no ai' is really "that's damned hard" though.
11:34:49 <zpg> Quartus: ah i see. well, human or computer, i'm bound to lose.
11:35:09 <zpg> i believe playing a good computer is a neat way to improve your game though. again, this is forwarded information from my housemate.
11:35:22 <Ray_work> zpg, not all that hard to steal the few i've seen and add it in.
11:35:27 <zpg> ah ok.
11:35:30 <Quartus_> otoh, chess-playing software is interesting, algorithmically.
11:35:38 <Ray_work> it is that!
11:36:00 <zpg> Quartus_: indeed. did you check out the Bentley / Thompson in Programming Pearls. I saw the new edition the other day, though the data is the same as my 80s copy.
11:36:23 <zpg> Thompson's work with endgames, storing the board as 1/8th of its actual size and mirroring to get an 8x8 array.
11:36:26 <Ray_work> Tom Zimmer, is that right name?, his has been open.
11:36:38 <zpg> Ray_work: just looked, can't see beaming as an option.
11:36:59 <Quartus_> I'll have to read that, zpg.
11:37:23 * zpg nods
11:37:26 <zpg> only about a page long
11:37:30 <zpg> but interesting.
11:37:35 <zpg> (as with all of bentley's stuff)
11:38:04 <zpg> Ray_work: http://palmopenchess.sourceforge.net/#features
11:39:21 <Quartus_> I have some ideas for positional analysis I'd like to experiment with.
11:39:28 <zpg> neat.
11:39:51 <zpg> i'm fretting over my inability to think in a stack based way at the moment... hopefully i can crack this otherwise writing in forth will be pretty hard.
11:40:07 <zpg> hence the questions on factoring.
11:40:53 <zpg> i keep reading people talking of how easy and intuitive forth is (mostly from the 80s) ... i'm hoping i can 'get it' in this sort of way. i can already see the elegance and cleanliness to forth, but i'm still very much speaking franglais.
11:40:58 <Quartus_> Keep at it. What's the hurdle, do you think?
11:42:29 <zpg> well, hurdle (1) is feeling like i'm new to programming again. say what you will about python, c, lisp, perl, whatever -- they're all pretty much the same in a number of ways. certainly, in terms of argument structure.
11:43:05 <zpg> (2) is the way i approach the code i think. i end up a knot re: stack manipulations, and find that i now want item 4 on the stack, but i've been using the top three a lot. how to get to it? where to factor, etc.
11:43:22 <zpg> that covers most of the trouble i think.
11:43:57 <Quartus_> when to factor -- or re-think the approach -- is exactly when you find yourself stack-juggling.
11:44:05 <zpg> i wrote a small a very simple demo for the cognitive psychological / AI concept of Dead Reckoning in QForth on the other hand, that was really nice.
11:44:27 <zpg> Quartus_: yeah, Brodie said as much. i still feel quite lost when writing code though.
11:45:24 <Quartus_> do you approach a problem by just starting to write code, or do you think it out first?
11:46:06 <zpg> mostly (a) a tiny bit of (b)
11:46:49 <zpg> i'm used to rapid prototyping and then rewriting / polishing. this is easier to do with arguments. the code can look ugly with a 7 item let fence for example (let (a b c d e f g) ...the body of code...)
11:46:54 <Quartus_> more b. :). Think in terms of encapsulation, and successive levels of abstraction.
11:47:02 * zpg nods
11:47:07 <zpg> it's definitely a case of paradigm shift.
11:47:42 <zpg> i'm not unhappy with the fact that i feel new to programming either. it means when things click in a more general way, i'll have a better understanding that can only augment existing knowledge.
11:47:50 <zpg> learning curve and all that jazz.
11:48:10 <Quartus_> in writing before thinking, you may come up with a working program, but you rarely solve the problem. Forth is about solving the problem.
11:48:27 <zpg> quite, i'll take that on board.
11:48:52 <zpg> this is kinda proven by my re-write of the list code. i drafted it on a piece of paper for no more than 10 minutes, and the newer code worked pretty well first time, pretty clean word definitions too.
11:49:05 <zpg> a question of lazy programming and bad habits up to this point i guess.
11:49:12 <zpg> (which i'm sure isn't uncommon)
11:49:44 <Quartus_> this is one reason why learning to write good Forth makes you a better programmer in any language.
11:49:52 * zpg nods
11:50:12 <zpg> it certainly can't hurt to clarify the problem domain beforehand.
11:50:36 <Quartus_> never hurts.
11:50:50 <zpg> this has been useful, i might head downstairs for a cup of tea and a bite to eat; shall take a pad of paper with me :)
11:51:44 <Quartus_> ok :)
11:51:58 <zpg> (as usual, good talking -- back a little later)
11:52:17 <Quartus_> cya
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13:02:31 <erider> hi all
13:04:33 <Quartus_> hey
13:09:25 * Ray_work suddenly busy, but wanted to say thanks for the link zpg
13:13:35 <Quartus_> what's up?
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13:35:00 <Ray_work> That Palm OpenChess looks pretty neat.
13:36:42 <erider> hi ray
13:36:59 <Ray_work> hey there erider, what do ya know good today?
13:37:42 <erider> nothing much 
13:37:42 * erider is doing some reading 
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13:43:12 <Quartus_> reading what?
13:46:27 <zpg> Ray_work: ah, glad to know it's of interest.
13:47:21 <zpg> Quartus_: managed to factor the backskip stuff on paper quite nicely i think.
13:48:43 <Quartus_> So in your final version, what order do the individual words wind up in in a list?
13:48:58 <zpg> on paper, it'll be a similar affair.
13:49:51 <Quartus_> I mean. "Hello there zpg" mylist add-tokens -- what order do they wind up in in the list?
13:49:54 <zpg> string-end will return the last address in the string with 0 length. backskip will decrement the address and increment the length. backscan calls backskip and drops the length in favour of 0.
13:50:41 <zpg> Quartus_: the backskip/scan work from the end of the string, and cons each time a new substring is split off, so your example would be { hello there zpg }
13:51:05 <Quartus_> meaning hello is at the head of the list?
13:51:10 <zpg> beginning
13:51:18 <zpg> mylist car --> s" hello"
13:51:32 <zpg> the equivalent of using skip/scan, then reversing the result.
13:51:46 <Quartus_> ok. I ask because I did my own factoring of the thing with forward parsing.
13:52:01 <zpg> using reverse?
13:52:14 <Quartus_> mine doesn't need a reversal.
13:52:43 <Quartus_> no reverse.
13:52:45 <zpg> howso?
13:52:52 <zpg> you're forward parsing the string i take it
13:53:14 <Quartus_> yes. Skip and scan.
13:53:38 <zpg> i had a version that split the string so the stack, bottom to top, was: s" hello" s" there" s" Quartus"
13:53:45 <zpg> with the length at the top
13:54:01 <zpg> hence consing in do loop works fine for getting the desired left-right list order.
13:54:06 <zpg> but i didn't like having everything on the stack.
13:54:13 <zpg> another example reversed the list.
13:54:17 <zpg> how have you gone about it?
13:54:44 <Quartus_> It can be done more simply. I recurse until the tokens are all parsed, and then cons them all.
13:55:44 <Quartus_> an simpler alternative that doesn't use the stack as heavily would add each node to the end of the list, rather than the beginning.
13:56:23 <zpg> yes, that's not a bad one. nor expensive, as long as you keep track of the current tail.
13:56:44 <Quartus_> right.
13:57:08 <zpg> with recursion, do you have the string tokens on the stack until you reach the bottom level (prior to consing)
13:57:08 <zpg> ?
13:57:44 <Quartus_> the recursive one is fine, the elements are created and consumed inside the same word. It'd break on Forths with really tiny datastacks, if that's an issue for you.
13:57:44 <Quartus_> yes.
13:58:02 <zpg> yes, i had a clean (iterative) way of doing that.
13:58:20 <zpg> but the idea of a 70k word book as strings on the stack doesn't seem extensible.
13:59:15 <Quartus_> if you're hell-bent on adding each word of a 70k book in sequential order to a list, no.
13:59:44 <Quartus_> but then you're equally unlikely to inhale a whole 70k book and then parse it as a string.
14:00:44 <Quartus_> more likely you'll pull it in a word at a time, adding each to the tail of a list.
14:01:45 <Quartus_> or a line at a time, or what-have-you.
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14:02:52 <Quartus_> if you really wanted to parse a 70k-word string, and you're worried about the datastack being too small, build an alternate stack and store the data there. Very straightforward.
14:03:30 <zpg> interesting. i just thought that the Forth paradigm would be to avoid overusing the stack.
14:03:43 <zpg> hence my word-at-a-time immediate cons test.
14:03:51 <zpg> and hence, backskipping.
14:04:30 <zpg> in a programme i occassionally work in, i read a file into a string (straightforward operation, the natural model in the language), then call mystring.split() or the equivalent, creating a list.
14:04:39 <zpg> what would be the model of a custom stack if not a list btw?
14:05:06 <zpg> (as we either have to explicitly reserve a chunk of memory, else support some sort of next pointer)
14:05:15 <Quartus_> It depends entirely on what problem you're trying to solve. At no time would I suggest using the data stack to store a list of tokens for passing between words. Using it (or a larger alternate) recursively within one word is not the same thing.
14:05:38 <zpg> i see.
14:05:45 <Quartus_> simple stacks are arrays.
14:05:49 <zpg> so there's nothing wrong with having, prior to the consing begins, 99 items on the stack
14:06:25 <zpg> arrays. hmm, so you have a 'top' pointer, that i get. what about popping?
14:06:44 <zpg> move the pointer and use cell+ to store?
14:06:45 <Quartus_> within one word that will consume that data, and assuming you have the required stack depth, no.
14:06:59 <zpg> intriguing.
14:07:09 <zpg> well, my older model is fine then. though this one's interesting too (backskip)
14:07:15 <Quartus_> yes, the simplest stack is an array with a pointer.
14:07:39 <zpg> i see.
14:07:46 <Quartus_> for the problem you're describing, I'd forward parse and add each token to the end of a list.
14:08:08 <Quartus_> minimal storage requirements and stack use, no loss of speed.
14:08:29 <zpg> yes, that sounds far cleaner. i'd considered it briefly before getting immersed in trying to rewrite this code to better spec. but i think the entire model is a little ugly rather than the code in itself.
14:09:14 <Quartus_> That's another Forth benefit. Wrong answers look ugly. :)
14:09:40 <zpg> a nice lesson.
14:10:06 <vatic> I used two lists as stacks to store goals and backtracking control info on my little prolog thingy...
14:10:08 <zpg> my refactor wasn't too bad but in one word def. i had >r r@ 0 do ... loop r> = ...
14:10:24 <Quartus_> yikes
14:10:24 <zpg> vatic: oh, neat. which list code are you using these days btw?
14:10:44 <vatic> Quartus' It's the slickest by far... ;-)
14:11:06 <Quartus_> heh
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14:11:41 <zpg> Quartus_: is this one of the early renditions, or did you upload a newer one?
14:12:04 <vatic> Quartus' is the only one I found that didn't use the dictionary as part of the list implementation...
14:12:08 <Quartus_> Haven't posted an update since way back.
14:13:29 <zpg> Quartus_: ah ok.
14:13:37 <zpg> why would you use the dictionary for a list implementation?
14:13:57 <vatic> zpg: there were also a couple things tha Quartus added right on the channel, but they aren't complete...
14:14:02 <zpg> vatic: k
14:14:10 <zpg> vatic: i've been tinkering with my own list code on and off.
14:14:16 <zpg> (as you probably guess)
14:14:17 <zpg> *ed
14:14:31 <vatic> zpg: yup!
14:14:34 <zpg> :)
14:14:40 <vatic> Quartus: heya!!
14:15:05 <Quartus_> hey.
14:15:12 <zpg> it's itneresting stuff. i've often tried writing a programme in C, implemented slightly flakey list code and had swathes of *(...). (that is, list -> first -> next -> next) stuff in my code.
14:15:28 <vatic> Quartus_: howse it going today?
14:15:43 <Quartus_> could be worse. You?
14:15:48 <zpg> Quartus_ might recall my surprise at the conciseness of his Forth lists, a factor in my re-assessing Forth.
14:16:09 <vatic> Quartus_: finished teaching ofr the week, so I'm fine now ;-)
14:16:12 <vatic> for
14:16:13 <zpg> i still like the fact that I wrote code to support the notation { this is a list } on the palm, even though it's far from complete.
14:17:30 <zpg> vatic: how's the prologlike going?
14:17:48 <vatic> zpg: oh, I've ignored all those niceties. You have to hand code the knowledge base...
14:18:29 <vatic> zpg: next step is to add pattern matching so you can have variables...
14:20:37 * zpg nods
14:20:47 <zpg> how are you going to define a symbol versus a variable?
14:20:53 <vatic> zpg: actually, before that, I need to clean things up so I can post the code...
14:21:28 <zpg> i was considering this today, obviously SYMBOL is nicer than, say, ">> symbol" or something equivalent, where >> will parse the next word
14:23:52 <zpg> and a situation where you have to say "symbol x symbol y symbol z" might be handy and clear, if a little verbose.
14:25:21 <vatic> zpg: one aspect is substitution, a sort of trial search based on supposed values for the variables. Prolog works really differently than Lisp I think...
14:27:18 <erider> hmm
14:27:21 <vatic> so if you have a rule like:  old( X ) :- grey-hair( X ), age( X, 61 )
14:27:44 <erider> hmm
14:28:02 * erider is listening to the conversation
14:28:05 <vatic> you simply substitute: old( vatic ) :- grey-hair( vatic ), age( vatic, 61 ) and try to prove the assertion.
14:28:22 <vatic> at least that's as much aas I understand right now... :-)
14:28:24 <Quartus> the old grey vatic ain't what she used to be
14:28:27 <vatic> aas = as
14:28:45 <vatic> Quartus: one foot in the grave, man!
14:28:55 * Ray_work is twenty minutes behind the conversation where Quartus says ...Forth benefit, Wrong answers look ugly, and now I know that B18ChessBoard is a wrong answer.
14:28:59 <vatic> methuselah...
14:29:18 <Ray_work> hi vatic :)
14:29:33 <Quartus> Forth lets you know very quickly if you're 'polishing a turd', as they say in the vernacular.
14:29:34 <vatic> Ray_work: Hey, having FUN? :-)
14:32:12 <Ray_work> One Foot In The Grave. Didn't Eric Idle do that theme for the show? ( not to throw the topic in disarray) 
14:33:50 <Ray_work> Yes vatic, I'm having fun. The Vx kept me up all night, but i have the trial version of Quartus Forth on it.
14:34:13 <Quartus> Get HackMaster and StreakHack and ShiftHack and SwitchHack on there.
14:34:23 <vatic> Ray_work: http://www.geocities.com/fang_club/one_foot_in_the_grave_tv.html
14:35:03 <Ray_work> ACK Quartus. I'm following the manual. But I can see it is nothing with out the pay version.
14:35:19 <vatic> Ray_work: ah, good for the Vx! Found a home...
14:35:36 <Ray_work> Yes, thanks very very very much again. :)
14:35:48 <Quartus> Ray_work, the pay version lets you make stand-alone apps. Otherwise you've got the same animal, limited on codespace, but that shouldn't matter at this stage.
14:35:49 <Ray_work> I plan to code a ChuckBot the Cursor on it.
14:36:05 <vatic> Ray_work: you can do a lot with the trial version, just not make Palm apps...
14:36:11 <Ray_work> Quartus are there any words in words that are not available.
14:36:46 <Quartus> Just the stand-alone-making stuff.
14:36:52 <Ray_work> got it thanks.
14:37:10 <vatic> Quartus: does the full version allow you to make new version of the console app? ie. snapshot or save dictionary?
14:38:09 <Quartus> No. Only recursively-extracted apps.
14:38:21 <Quartus> If you want to extend the console, startup.quartus is your friend.
14:41:07 <Quartus_> snapshots would be a support nightmare.
14:43:35 <vatic> Quartus: That's what I'm using now. :-) Now that I think of it, it would be really weird to save off versions in the Palm environment...
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14:46:04 <Ray_work> YIKES the wife.  take cover.
14:46:19 <vatic> Hahaha!!
14:46:49 <erider> lol
14:46:51 <vatic> Ray_work: now you can write Forth anytime, anywhere...
14:47:06 <Ray_work> and I often do. all over anything.
14:50:17 <zpg> vatic: i wrote quite a bit of prolog a year or two ago. as well as a lisp layer that implemented the resolution algoritm to allow backtracking when querying. this checked symbols to see if they were prefixed ith ?
14:50:25 <zpg> if so, they were treated as variables. if not, symbols (facts)
14:51:08 <zpg> i'm just curious how you plan to implement a fact like  happy(X) :- man(X). i.e., "all men are happy" (we're not going to delve into sartre for now ;)) or even more simply happy(zpg) in Forth.
14:51:15 <zpg> "zpg happy" is one suggestion
14:51:17 <zpg> but would you go for
14:51:22 <zpg> s" zpg" happy ?
14:51:23 <Quartus> Just got the new dragon book.
14:51:29 <zpg> how would you cleanly define happy as a predicate beforehand?
14:51:49 <zpg> "predicate happy   symbol zpg    zpg happy" ?
14:52:10 <zpg> one of the beauties of Prolog being that you're essentially writing predicate calc.
14:52:10 <Ray_work> Quartus, sorry, dragon book, please?
14:53:29 <vatic> zpg: I'm currently defining it as a word that returns a string:   : zpg_str s" zpg" ;
14:53:40 <zpg> hmm ok
14:53:53 <zpg> you could more cleanly just say   : zpg s" zpg" ;   of course
14:54:20 <vatic> zpg: I'm just searching for and matching addresses though...
14:54:55 <zpg> vatic: how have you implemented variables (in the predicate/argument sense)
14:55:34 <vatic> zpg: so far no variables, just facts and rules...
14:56:00 <zpg> ah ok
14:56:07 <zpg> so how would one write a simple rule in your system?
14:56:19 <zpg> such as "all men are happy"
14:56:25 <Quartus> "Compilers: Principles, Techniques, & Tools" Second Edition.  
14:56:35 <Quartus> So called "dragon book" because both editions have a dragon on the cover.
14:57:32 <vatic> Quartus: have they updated the artwork?
14:57:33 <Quartus> It's the bible in the Temple of Complex Compiler Design.
14:57:49 <Quartus> Yes, it's a 3d-graphical dragon + knight.
14:59:33 <Quartus> http://www.amazon.com/Compilers-Principles-Techniques-Tools-2nd/dp/0321486811
14:59:34 <vatic> ah, I see...
15:00:11 <vatic> we should get gavino to post a review on Amazon...
15:01:19 <zpg> i guess you could get a syntax like "rule x happy :- x man ;"
15:01:25 <vatic> Cab this compiler book handle web apps? Where are the APPS?
15:01:31 <vatic> Cab = Can
15:01:42 <Ray_work> Ty Quartus.
15:01:48 <Ray_work> going...
15:01:55 <Ray_work> Going...
15:01:58 <Ray_work> GONE
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15:03:16 <vatic> zpg: as I said, I'm just not dealing with those kinds of issues...
15:03:36 <zpg> ah ok
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15:19:10 <Quartus> syntactic sugar is appreciably less important than function.
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15:22:52 <Quartus> dibble-go or dibb-lego?
15:22:59 <dibblego> the former
15:26:25 <Quartus> Now I have a copy of the former edition of "Principles of Compiler Design" by Aho and Ullman to sell.
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15:41:47 <erider> Q 
15:41:56 <Quartus> e
15:42:16 <erider> I got the DynDns thingy
15:42:20 <Quartus> Ok.
15:42:32 <erider> erider.hobby-site.com 
15:42:54 <erider> but its still not working 
15:43:26 <Quartus> pings out to 69.68.91.177. Is that you?
15:43:43 <Quartus> nc-69-68-91-177.dyn.embarqhsd.net
15:43:52 <erider> yes
15:44:02 <Quartus> Ok, so that part is working.  
15:44:32 <erider> hmm 
15:44:49 <Quartus> what port are you forwarding to the internal machine that's hosting the website?
15:45:09 <erider> 80
15:45:16 <Quartus> are you sure your isp doesn't block 80?
15:45:50 <erider> When I setup my NAT that was the port for html 
15:46:12 <Quartus> Whether your ISP blocks port 80 or not is independent of your NAT.
15:46:22 <erider> I set the NAT on my modem 
15:46:36 <erider> and my port forwarding on my router 
15:46:40 <Quartus> Right. Whether your ISP blocks port 80 or not is independent of your NAT, your modem, or any other piece of equipment in your house.
15:47:04 <erider> I'm not sure then :(
15:47:43 <Quartus> You could set up on another port.
15:47:56 <erider> I guess I need to call them tomorrow but they are going to have some person on the phone that going to try to sale me something that I don't need 
15:48:10 <erider> really? 
15:48:14 <erider> how?
15:48:40 <Quartus> NAT.  In your router.  Forward a different port, say 8080 or something, to the machine on your LAN that has the website.
15:50:39 <erider> my NAT setup is on my modem 
15:50:53 <Quartus> Wherever you do port forwarding.
15:50:56 <erider> I only have port forwarding on my router 
15:51:09 <dibblego> still working on that?
15:51:15 <Quartus> Ok, a router is in fact a NAT device.
15:52:13 <erider> dibblego: yup 
15:54:28 <erider> ok I made the changes 
15:54:36 <erider> http://erider.hobby-site.com/
15:55:54 <Quartus> Nothing yet.
15:57:49 <erider> Quartus do I have to make some changes to apache?
15:58:43 <Quartus> erider, port forwarding is really simple.  You tell your NAT to take any incoming traffic on a given port, and send it all to a specific internal address on another specific port.  So the internal machine has to be listening on that second specific port.
15:59:16 <dibblego> some routers give you the ability to determine if it can "see" a port
16:08:16 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2
16:17:13 <Raystm2> hehe: fat factoid. If you are 100lbs overweight, you need 1 more tank of gas per year, costing about $40.00 per year.
16:18:09 <jcw> But you can always turn off your headlights to save energy.
16:18:21 <Raystm2> hehe.
16:18:44 <Raystm2> If you have those thumping speakers with 50lbs magnets...
16:18:47 <jcw> And is that a 14 gallon small car tank, or a 50 gallon Ford Excursion tank?
16:18:57 <Raystm2> Average.
16:19:10 <jcw> I have no idea what the average size fuel tank is.
16:19:23 <jcw> I do know that $3/gal, it was costing $75 to fill up my station wagon.
16:19:29 <Raystm2> yikes.
16:19:34 <jcw> Luckily, I only have to do that every 2 or 3 months.
16:19:39 <Raystm2> oh.
16:19:41 <Raystm2> cool.
16:20:00 <jcw> I used it for taking the dogs to the vet, occasional Home Depot runs, and taking the garbage to the county dump.
16:20:06 <jcw> s/dd/
16:20:08 <jcw> s/d//
16:24:32 * Raystm2 is learning to use Quartus forth.
16:26:34 <Quartus> Happy to advise.
16:26:46 <vatic> go Raystm2!
16:27:44 <Raystm2> Hi vatic. Minesweeper was never this fun.
16:28:01 <vatic> Mindforther...
16:29:12 <Raystm2> hmm, what would a mindforth proggy look like?
16:29:32 <Raystm2> oh heck, there's that one guy that has a stupid AI he calls MindForth.
16:29:33 <vatic> Raystm2: put the serial cable in your mouth...
16:29:38 <Raystm2> haha.
16:30:32 <jcw> "proggy"?
16:31:46 <Raystm2> a cute little program, as in short for. ( by one letter )
16:33:05 <jcw> revolting.
16:33:14 <Raystm2> ty :)
16:33:31 <Raystm2> Forth short by one letter.
16:33:40 <jcw> Next you'll be calling your Scotch and Water a "drinkie-poo"
16:33:57 <Raystm2> no I call that Drambuie and keep the water.
16:34:49 * Raystm2 can't have alchohol any more. I had quit ( mostly ) years ago, but now it's official, it will hurt my sugar level.
16:35:10 <jcw> MORE COOKIES
16:35:25 <Raystm2> I suppose I could dunk doublestuff chocolate oreos... ya hehe
17:32:22 <erider> test
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22:40:41 <Quartus> List stuff: http://forth.pastebin.ca/224003
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22:48:40 <erider> cdr should be the rest right?
22:49:14 <Quartus> cdr is the address part of a cons.
22:49:56 <erider> ah ok 
22:50:08 <erider> we I'm going to bed gn Q
22:50:18 <Quartus> k
22:50:43 <erider> talk to you later
22:50:47 <Quartus> cya!
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