00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.09.28 00:26:57 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-102-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 00:32:23 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 00:32:46 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 01:34:52 --- join: arke (n=Chris@pD9E0727A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:34:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o arke 01:35:26 Good morning 01:36:50 Good morning, arke. 01:40:21 re 01:40:58 Its been a while :) 01:41:20 I see both new and old faces 01:42:07 (or rather, nicknames) 01:43:38 You must mean me. 01:45:17 No, I mean myself. 01:46:36 It is hard to follow this channel. 01:48:02 It isn't populated by Europeans, it seems. 01:48:56 Looks like theres plenty of both. 01:50:01 The only asians are Russians, if they bother to come here. 01:50:37 I guess there just isn't a big interest on Forth 01:51:21 I see them more active in c.l.f. 01:51:50 It is hard to follow the channel, where almost everyone is 01:51:57 at sleep. 03:13:44 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 03:22:02 --- join: schihei (i=schihei@nat/ibm/x-18ff564cc304cff8) joined #forth 03:33:26 Hi, schihei! 03:37:39 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-27.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 03:38:01 Good evening, PoppaVic. 03:38:08 Hi ;-) 03:38:54 What do people use spreadsheets for? 03:39:04 hmm? 03:39:08 Does anyone know? 03:39:39 Usually half-ass databases or advanced calculators.. Tabular data & calcs 03:41:07 But it is not productive to hold table as submatrix. 03:41:21 Advanced calculator? 03:41:34 Not sure what "submatrix" means. 03:41:37 I don't understand, elaborate. 03:42:22 well, it lets them come up with semi-trivial databases that may use indiv. or group calcs to turn around and generate more calculations/projections, etc 03:42:30 I mean, there're several matrices N*M, not the whole index 03:42:30 *** range is used. 03:42:57 oh, well... Yeah. 03:43:34 I understand, SQL may be overkill, but... 03:43:51 There's no query language at all! 03:44:15 I've used the openoffice SS a year or 2 back, but I had little choice.. I was doing a lot of screw-around guesstimations and calculations on limited data 03:44:38 It's easier to use awk, scheme, or even forth. 03:44:39 define "quey language"? 03:44:54 query, too 03:45:49 "filter" and "map" is enough to do the most work. 03:46:00 well... my own feeling about SQL is that it was intended as a guide for a language-standard. Not a real database. 03:46:10 I can't find neither "filter", nor "map" analogue. 03:47:04 I don't understand your meaning for those two terms, although I would think you mean "translator" and "key/value database/index" 03:48:13 IIRC, the kicker about SQL is that it's for R/O access, mostly - not creating the actual db 03:48:17 "Filter" is selector: "select all matching list members",- 03:48:18 *** "map" is translator: "map every list member to...". 03:48:29 ugh 03:48:54 FP combinators. 03:48:58 where the HECK did you dig those two defs up from? 03:49:08 Scheme. 03:49:13 yuck 03:49:13 LISP. 03:49:17 SML. 03:50:50 I try to find out, why all this SS stuff. 03:51:14 because it was orginally somewhat intuitive 03:51:33 If you've ever worked on a paper SS, you'd see that. 03:51:58 also called "Worksheets", in some accounting classes 03:52:00 Intuitive - adj. you are to have strong intuition. 03:52:42 Hmm. 03:52:43 yes, the [row x col] submatrix ideas - or tables or... 03:53:18 Book-keeping? 03:53:31 How is it called in English? 03:53:33 remember though: no one ever demanded that the SS "display" be other than an interface to a db 03:53:38 Buchhalter. 03:53:48 Ah! 03:53:52 Right. 03:53:54 Book-keeping is similar. 03:54:20 Stchetovodstvo. 03:55:50 But that means a *great* amount of hand work! 03:55:58 what? 03:56:25 Filling all these cells in SS. 03:56:37 Unless you can mecahnize it, sure. 03:56:44 "mechanize" 03:57:15 basically, the SS ends up acting as a large "form" and "interface" to the DB 03:57:28 brb - more coffee 03:58:54 I had not found the way to do "B[i] = f(A[i]), for i in 03:58:56 *** range ..." in palm's SS2Go. 04:07:04 hew 04:07:25 back, too 04:07:35 I know nothing about palmtops 04:08:24 In days of Slackware 7, we got much fun from reading "Russian Tee HOWTO". 04:09:38 Other thing I want understand. 04:10:02 What is use of GDBM, Berkeley DB etc. 04:10:07 ? 04:10:35 I usually rely on dbopen(3) and friends, but bdb4+ is powerful. 04:10:47 Backend for more complex DBs? 04:11:08 What do you use it for? 04:11:09 it's used as key/value databases utility. 04:11:33 it usually caches ok, and it definitely gives you space in which to work 04:11:38 I've read it from man page. 04:12:15 Do you use it as dynamic memory? 04:12:22 you might 04:12:49 I use it anytime I feel that working in RAM is gonna' end up with a pig of a program 04:13:24 ..or when I already KNOW I want the tree (or whatever) to be r/w as a file used later/again, etc 04:14:01 Storage based associative list? 04:14:14 whatever you want to use it for. 04:14:29 Hmmm... 04:47:25 ASau: Who are you? 04:47:40 What do you mean? 04:59:25 ASau: I don't know you, or? 05:00:01 why not just speak with him and determine it? 05:00:49 schihei: Sorry? 05:01:19 ASau, no problem. I've thought you know me. :) 05:03:36 schihei: Do you have many acquaintances from Russia? 05:03:58 "From Russia With Love" ;-) 05:04:19 ASau: 3 or 4 in Moscow. 05:04:39 Hmm... 05:04:45 Odnako! 05:06:39 Well, I don't know you, if I should trust the name you provided to IRC server. 05:19:24 hmm 05:20:12 Defered words do NOT take on the state-flags of the word they get assigned, do they? 05:20:56 They do. 05:21:02 they DO? 05:21:18 That's why "state is evil". 05:22:01 Hold! 05:22:19 Do you mean this: 05:22:21 so, if FOO is deferred, and you ' FOO is bar" - where bar is immediate? 05:22:40 is FOO then immediate? for at least now? 05:22:53 No, it's not immediate. 05:22:59 ahh, I thought not 05:23:05 ok, so that's another peril 05:23:48 thanks... I wondered about that 05:24:03 That's why c.l.f discussed synonyms. 05:24:43 There's no easy way to introduce ones. 05:25:30 yeppers, I recall discussions from over 20 years ago 05:25:51 DEFER is a lot more like a funcptr than an ALIAS 05:42:41 In some implementations it is possible to make DEFER be real ALIAS. 05:42:55 yeah, I'm just exploring. 05:44:28 --- join: schihei_ (i=schihei@nat/ibm/x-72bfd9fa59912b60) joined #forth 05:47:27 --- quit: schihei (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:56:17 I'm going away. 05:56:17 --- quit: ASau ("ERC Version 5.1.2 (IRC client for Emacs)") 05:56:35 laters 06:13:14 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 06:15:03 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-96.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:23:00 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 06:27:13 --- join: jcw (n=jcw@adsl-074-238-180-251.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 06:30:48 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:49:09 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 06:49:52 --- join: madwork (n=foo@204.138.110.15) joined #forth 07:44:13 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 07:514:22:30 --- log: started forth/06.09.28 14:22:30 --- join: clog (n=nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 14:22:30 --- topic: 'Welcome to #forth. We discuss the Forth programming language, simplicity, and a variety of technical subjects. Introduction: http://tinyurl.com/kvawv | Starting Forth: http://tinyurl.com/rm7pq | Thinking Forth: http://tinyurl.com/nsy4j | Gforth compiler: http://tinyurl.com/s8uho | ANS/ISO Forth Standard doc: http://tinyurl.com/nx7dx | Paste >5 lines: http://forth.pastebin.ca/' 14:22:30 --- topic: set by Quartus on [Wed Aug 30 23:43:43 2006] 14:22:30 --- names: list (clog fission Snoopy42 @JasonWoof virl neceve @arke jcw madwork Ray_work virsys Cheery TreyB Quiznos segher AI_coder Teratogen Jim7J1AJH Quartus__ jcwren madgarden Zarutian nighty Zymurgy nanstm @Quartus @crc michaelw ohub ccfg juri_ warpzero)