00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.09.16
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06:41:34 <snowrichard> good morning
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12:06:10 <AI_coder> Hi Quartus.
12:09:23 <AI_coder> Does forth allow i (loop variable) to be reset?
12:11:37 <AI_coder> : set_i_demo 10 0 do i . <natural_language> if i is 5 set i to 8 </natural_language> loop ;
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12:12:00 <AI_coder> 0 1 2 3 4 5 8 9
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12:13:03 <AI_coder> actually what I really want to do is not the generic i, but the current value of the loop variable of one loop in particular.
12:13:47 <AI_coder> loop1{ loop2{ loop3{ loop2_counter = 5 if something } } }
12:15:23 <Quartus> AI_coder, no, not in any safe way.
12:15:30 <AI_coder> Is that just a dumb C way of doing things, but forth offers a much smarter solution?
12:15:58 <Quartus> Yes, there's undoubtedly a saner solution; I can't see the whole problem from here, of course.
12:16:18 <Quartus> Even the presence of nested loops in one word suggests there's a better solution.
12:16:36 <AI_coder> It's actually two separate words.
12:17:43 <AI_coder> basically there is an array of xt's and a loop executes each xt like --> xt_array_size 0 do array[i] execute loop
12:18:06 <AI_coder> So I want one of the words that are in the xt array to change the loop's counter.
12:18:45 <Quartus> That raises a lot more questions than it answers.  But supposing that's really what you need to do, you'd want to build your own counted loop instead of using do/loop.
12:18:59 <AI_coder> Exactly!
12:19:28 <Quartus> If I found myself standing there in a Forth program, I'd want to do some serious review of my approach, and reanalyze the problem domain.
12:20:13 <AI_coder> Yeah, the program is mostly for fun to test the limits of forth, so far it's given me far more flexibility than any other programming language I've ever used.
12:21:03 <AI_coder> Making a lot of code do exactly what you want very quickly is and good run times and small memory consumption seems to be the forth way.
12:21:07 <Quartus> The place to focus for discovering the expressive power of Forth is factoring.  Learn to factor well; your ability to do that well will scale directly.
12:21:47 <AI_coder> Anyway, where can I read about forth counted loops beside do/loop?
12:22:07 <Quartus> The other looping structures are begin/while/repeat and begin/until.
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12:23:07 <Quartus> Hi slava.
12:23:10 <slava> hi
12:24:13 <AI_coder> While we're talking about forth loops, does your book include code on how to do a C/C++/C#/Java/BASH/everyotherlanguage continue keyword for loops?
12:24:54 <Quartus> begin/while/repeat is an exit-in-the-middle loop.  It can be extended to begin/while/while/repeat/then etc. as required.
12:35:07 <Quartus> Another option is to factor small, and then simply exit the word from within a begin/again loop.
12:36:13 <slava> for some reason i've always found recursion more natural than loops, especially loops with early breaks... but then i'm a math guy
12:36:38 <Quartus> Well, tail-recursion and begin/again are the same construct.  
12:36:47 <slava> almost.
12:36:56 <slava> it might require factoring out another word
12:37:03 <slava> which i like, because its a spot to stick a stack comment
12:37:18 <Quartus> : foo begin ... again ;    vs. (fictional)    : foo ... tail-recurse ;   -- same construct.
12:37:28 <slava> what i mean is, foo may have code before the 'begin'.
12:37:35 <Quartus> Sure.
12:37:38 <slava> in that case you want to define : foo blah blah (foo) ;
12:37:45 <slava> and have (foo) do the tail recursion.
12:38:07 <Quartus> Yes.
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14:21:41 <k4jcw> oh man
14:22:04 <Quartus> Yeah.
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15:23:27 <snowrichard> hello
15:23:59 <Quiznos> re, lilo has left the building.
15:24:12 <snowrichard> read that, too bad
15:24:15 <Quiznos> some sort of bicycle accident.
15:24:19 <Quiznos> where did you read that?
15:24:28 <snowrichard> in #gentoo
15:24:31 <Quiznos> ok
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16:03:36 <AI_coder> How do you force a definition to exit early but not crash the program?
16:04:04 <AI_coder> exit and ;s return from a definition apparently, but they also halt my program with :invalid memory address
16:04:54 <AI_coder> something like : word var 20 > if exit then ...do something... ;
16:05:23 <AI_coder> problem is the program crashes when var is larger than 20.
16:08:54 <AI_coder> it seems pretty basic to have a function return keyword that works right? or is that too much to ask?
16:09:03 <Quartus__> shouldn't crash unless you're leaving the return stack unbalanced.
16:09:39 <AI_coder> perhaps you should explain what you mean.
16:10:41 <Quartus__> you can't just exit from inside a do...loop -- you need unloop.
16:11:26 <AI_coder> The definition looks just like I posted above, the definition first asks what the variable is, if it is bigger than twenty then it should return to the calling definition.
16:12:45 <Quartus__> If that's all it is, it should be working.
16:12:56 <AI_coder> hehe
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19:08:37 <nighty_> Lo
19:15:05 <Quartus> Hi nighty.
19:29:55 <nighty_> Quartus: just got back from Niagara falls
19:30:03 <Quartus> First time?
19:30:08 <nighty_> Quartus: Yes
19:30:18 <nighty_> Quartus: and I got a bonus speeding ticket 
19:30:24 <nighty_> Quartus: and the way back 
19:30:32 <Quartus> Heh. Did you go down in the Maid of the Mist?
19:30:47 <nighty_> Quartus: but the cop was nice he retained only 65 over 60 
19:30:52 <nighty_> 5 over 60 
19:31:00 <nighty_> so only a fine
19:31:03 <Quartus> That's good.
19:31:09 <nighty_> and no point off my licence
19:31:21 <nighty_> My new car is a little too powerful
19:31:43 <nighty_> you quickly are over the limits without even noticing it
19:31:56 <Quartus> Did you enjoy the falls?
19:31:59 <nighty_> No I did not go in the Maid of the Mist
19:32:07 <nighty_> because we were with the kids
19:32:17 <nighty_> and thought they would be afraid
19:32:17 <Quartus> You should one day, it's impressive.
19:32:39 <nighty_> Next time we'll go :)
19:32:56 <nighty_> we followed the shore to go there
19:33:07 <nighty_> Oakville is very nice
19:34:11 <nighty_> Yes we enjoyed the falls
19:34:19 <Quartus> It's a pleasant drive down there.
19:34:19 <nighty_> but they were too many people
19:34:25 <Quartus> Yes, that's often true.
19:34:48 <Quartus> The caves behind the falls are fun to visit too.
19:35:03 <nighty_> Oh yes we will go next time
19:35:13 <nighty_> in the Rock Table 
19:35:14 <nighty_> thing 
19:35:16 <Quartus> But the Table Rock restaurant has bad food.
19:35:23 <nighty_> Table Rock
19:35:29 <nighty_> got it reversed :)
19:38:12 <Quartus> The Butterfly Conservatory is also fun.
19:38:21 <nighty_> I did not see this
19:38:35 <nighty_> we must have missed it
19:38:49 <Quartus> It's a bit of a distance away from the falls.  Worth a visit next time.
19:49:56 <nighty_> We bought RCMP beavers toys for the kids :)
19:50:03 <Quartus> :) Cute.
19:50:07 <nighty_> the cop who stopped me
19:50:10 <nighty_> so them 
19:50:12 <nighty_> he laughed
19:50:17 <Quartus> Heh.
19:50:35 <nighty_> he said, ok sir , you do not seem like a mad driver
19:51:05 <nighty_> and beside someone who bought RCMP toys to its kids can't be that bad :)
19:51:15 <nighty_> his kids
19:52:01 <Quartus> Good planning.
19:52:05 <nighty_> and he gave a little Toronto Police pins on badge to my boy
19:52:12 <nighty_> pin on
19:53:08 <nighty_> All in all it was a good day 
19:53:13 <nighty_> and now I go to sleep :)
19:53:15 <nighty_> I dead tired
19:53:17 <nighty_> :)
19:53:19 <Quartus> Ok :) See you later.
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