00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.09.13 00:57:58 --- quit: Quartus__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:09:31 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 01:17:04 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 01:39:24 --- join: saon_ (i=1000@c-71-199-235-144.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:40:37 --- quit: saon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:20:51 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 04:16:56 --- join: swsch (n=stefan@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/swsch) joined #forth 04:17:12 --- part: swsch left #forth 04:48:55 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-196.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:54:16 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 05:54:18 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-239-210.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 05:55:43 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 06:11:24 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 06:13:28 Good morning. 06:16:21 howdy 06:25:15 Hello, PoppaVic. Whats new on the developer front? 06:25:47 Not much.. I keep looking for a couple of sensible solutions, and I'm basically flailing. 06:36:18 So long as you keep looking, you can't ultimately fail. 06:37:05 Well, nothing I've examined shows much unique.. A lot of similar assumptions - and those sorta' bother me. 06:40:45 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@ool-45740b1c.dyn.optonline.net) joined #forth 06:44:05 --- join: PoppaVic1 (n=pete@0-2pool198-54.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:44:46 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 06:44:48 --- nick: PoppaVic1 -> PoppaVic 07:27:08 --- join: saon_ (i=1000@c-71-199-235-144.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:30:33 --- quit: saon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:35:06 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 07:36:30 heh.. oy 08:38:39 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 08:56:42 --- quit: vatic (Remote closed the connection) 09:19:35 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=roger@136.160.196.114) joined #forth 10:05:50 --- quit: I440r (": sleep bed go tuck light off ; immediate") 10:06:11 --- join: I440r (n=mark4__@cpe-67-11-172-14.satx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 10:25:55 --- quit: rabbitwhite () 10:38:05 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:10:15 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Toronto-HSE-ppp3712926.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:29:36 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@unaffiliated/herkamire) joined #forth 11:29:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 11:35:38 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:37:01 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-179-089.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:00:58 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 12:31:43 --- join: Anbidian (i=anbidian@S0106000fb09cff56.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 12:38:27 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:08:02 --- join: swsch (n=stefan@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/swsch) joined #forth 13:08:23 --- part: swsch left #forth 13:27:12 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:49:40 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 14:50:57 --- quit: TreyB (Nick collision from services.) 14:51:40 --- nick: TreyB_ -> TreyB 15:02:15 --- quit: Ray_work ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:15:26 --- join: TreyB_ (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 15:29:42 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:55:38 hey all 15:56:23 Hi Quartus. 15:56:34 Do you have any relation to Quartus Forth? 15:56:44 how goes it? 15:56:59 yes -- it's my product! :) 15:57:00 Not too bad... just taking a break; yourself? 15:57:04 You're Neal Bridges? 15:57:11 doing the same. 15:57:17 I am. 15:57:35 Ah, nice to meet you. I enjoyed Quartus Forth on my Palm V. 15:57:58 I'm glad to hear that! 15:58:58 How did Quartus work out on Palm OS 5? I never got a chance to try. 15:59:38 version 2 is out; it's 100% clean on OS5 and Cobalt, as well. 16:01:30 Good to hear. I hope it has done well for you. I'm not sure if Cobalt will ever see the light of day. 16:01:36 I expect it to run clean on the next breed, too. 16:02:18 cobalt won't, but it was a worthwhile exercise in exorcising any version-specific demons in the compiler. 16:04:45 and there's a new os on its way. 16:05:48 *nods* that stuff is beyond me. Supper is ready, have a good one. Yeah, I've been sort of following it since I would love to replace my laptop with a PDA. I hope it will run clean as you say, but I'm guessing you coded it within the guidelines and since the next OS will be backwards compatible that may be enough 16:06:30 I expect so. Any delta that exists will be minor. 16:16:31 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 16:18:21 Good evening. 16:19:31 Hi Raystm2. 16:20:52 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend") 16:21:12 Hi Quartus. Anything shaking? 16:21:55 Working away. Nothing earth-shaking. How are things with you? 16:23:16 Feet hurt. Suspect: bananas. Might be that bananas make my feet hurt earlier in the day, should I eat one early in the day. 16:23:37 Hmm. lots of sugar in a banana, maybe that's it. Potassium, too. 16:24:19 otoh, I have been able to miss my last two shots because sugar is under the tolerant level. 16:24:26 Good deal. 16:24:30 ya. :) 16:24:52 enough about that. /me thinking about what I shall do this evening. 16:25:49 * I440r going to poker game. made it to final table but not to the money last week :) 16:26:02 ONE OFF the money. if someone else had gone out before me i would have been in the money 16:26:04 bleh 16:26:04 I'm doing the Glypher manual. Not that anybody would want or need Glypher, but the experiance of completely reverse engineering a programming environment in Forth is a good challenge at my level. 16:26:14 mental note: dont go all in with noghtin 16:26:14 hehe 16:26:19 heh 16:26:31 actually, i twas a pair of 5's which is almost nothing 16:26:33 Raystm2, that's that bizarro-private language on that unreadable website, right? 16:26:34 good luck Mark! 16:26:38 tnx :) 16:27:51 ok, im out, bbl 16:27:54 Yes, it is bizarro alright. About the website, I have no knowledge, but Glypher was given to Charles Childers some time ago, and I've taken the task of dealing with it at RetroForth. 16:28:05 Bye~ 16:28:15 Oh ok. I remember an orange and green website. 16:29:15 --- join: TreyB (n=trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 16:29:26 Ya, I think Roger Levy hosted it for a while, but I thought he handled it in his wiki. I don't think I ever saw the site. Could be wrong. I thought I was wrong the other day but I was mistaken. 16:29:29 With all mono-spaced fonts. Like Wired magazine, but worse. 16:31:07 I see. I'd like to port it over to an Rx-Core, ANS compatible RetroForth. 16:31:15 For the experiance. 16:31:23 What's different about Glypher, from a language-perspective? 16:32:06 Not much different then, say, having colorforth rooted in RetroForth, and in the flavor of an inexperianced forthers coding style. 16:32:24 Hmm. 16:34:20 I took another look at colorForth. Aside from the color-changing-spaces syntax, it's just Forth that's missing a number of convenient features, I presume in the name of minimalism. 16:34:31 Roger's a CompSci student. His ideas are good. His implementation experiment was good enough as a proof of concept. He found it too limiting and moved on to building a forth for the Game-Cube. 16:34:59 The spaces thing was a very early version. 16:35:17 Raystm2: Forth for the Game-Cube? Is there any online pages for this? 16:35:21 yes, it is missing much, only because you only add what you need when you need it. 16:35:26 Is that not still how colorForth manages its color changes? In the inter-word spaces? 16:36:15 Anbidian: I don't think there is a real website, but I'm sure that Roger writes about it in his blog. 16:36:29 He's in here on occasion ( while working ) as rabbitwhite. 16:36:54 Quartus: words now include the color/function tag. 16:36:58 *nods* thanks 16:37:39 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-140-036.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:37:52 Raystm2, ok, the specific method of indicating colour aside, I was looking for innovations and found few. 16:38:02 Quartus please see http://www.colorforth.com/parsed.html for more detail. 16:38:08 Anbidian: yw. :) 16:38:49 --- quit: TreyB_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:39:37 Raystm2, thanks. I wasn't looking at it in terms of its implementation-specifics, but what it offers as a language. 16:41:20 Anbidian: I just looked for Roger's old haunts online and they all appear to be 404. 16:41:39 thanks for taking a look. 16:41:46 I'll catch him online sometime. 16:42:24 He's here usually 11:00 CST and in #retro, #c4th-ot as well. 16:42:48 I forgot about those channels :| 16:42:55 :) 16:43:50 Nice to see some forth representaiton on IRC :D 16:43:57 *representation 16:43:59 Quartus: Minimal as well, it has bindings to Alegro, can do sound, only works in windows. It made a better version of ChuckBot the Cursor then my colorforth version. 16:45:48 Quartus: the concept changed every now and again during development, but the idea was to provide an all inclusive game-engine-creator-player all in one. 16:45:50 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:46:09 Raystm2, you're talking about Glypher now I presume? 16:46:25 One of the neat ideas Roger tried was to create a language of glyphs. Oh yes sorry, thought you were as well. 16:46:45 All written languages are languages of glyphs. 16:47:01 Okay, picto-graphic glyphs? 16:47:39 Jeff F. claims a new and improved colorforth is soon to come from the Intellasys team. 16:47:40 I don't see how that differs from, say, a system that supports Unicode in names. 16:48:21 I suppose you could draw you're own font. 16:48:55 I'm particularly glad a routine can be named 'boot' instead of somebody's doodle of footwear. :) 16:49:10 hehe. :) 16:49:32 but the tile could be the word boot. 16:49:35 Although I'm sure you could get Tolkein freaks all excited about writing programs in runes. 16:49:40 one tile one word. 16:49:56 and that was discussed as well. 16:49:58 Raystm2-- one word, one word. How you represent the word is unimportant. 16:50:06 absolutely. 16:50:30 Introducing new terms -- pictograph, tile, glyph -- just adds complication where absolutely none is necessary. 16:51:10 if your the programmer, I agree. If your a user and just walk up to the machine and you understand some simple concepts... 16:51:26 If you're the user of a compiler, you're a programmer. 16:51:36 touche 16:51:42 If you're the user of an application, the interface is predetermined by the application developer. 16:51:54 I was just reading up on Glypher at ( http://retroforth.org/glypher/ ). Are there any examples of software made with Glpyher? 16:53:28 Anbidian: I have some simple stuff. I've lost the ChuckBot program in an accident not involving Glypher. It was the most ambitious thing writen in Glypher. I plan to re-do the program, possible over winter. 16:55:20 It contains it's own code editor, glyph editor, and comes with allegro.dll and fmod.dll for graphics and sound. 16:55:59 Oh ChuckBot is the Forth version of Karel the Robot, if you know about that in Pascal... 16:56:34 Karel is a training program for first year CompSci students, when Pascal was the rage. 16:56:51 Raystm2: sorry to hear about the loss. I don't know about Karel but my friend google will inform me :) 16:57:31 :) I like Karel as a training program. It's sorta like pre-compiled forth. 16:58:02 Yikes, forth is sorta like pre-compiled forth. 16:58:14 It's sorta like forth. 16:58:53 There is a Python version of note called Guido the Robot, by some high school students in Virginia. 16:59:40 is that what inspired your naming of the program? 17:00:12 colorForth has a very conspicuous(SP?) cursor, yes it did. 17:00:38 sorta looks like packman. 17:00:42 pacman even. 17:01:43 Karel Capek wrote "R.U.R. Rossums Universal Robots" in like '23 and came up with the concept of robots for the play. 17:02:21 He invented the modern archetype of robot? 17:02:44 Following suit, the Va. kids honor Guido van Rossum, and I ofcourse honor Chuck. 17:02:49 Yes. 17:03:03 the idea was that you had an automaton slave. 17:03:30 * Anbidian bites his tongue 17:03:46 Infact, the point of the play is that there is no justifiable reason for slavery. 17:04:00 even of the robotic variety? 17:04:16 Well, not the cognisant kind. :) 17:08:53 Well, he didn't invent the concept of robot, or the concept of robots as slaves, but he did coin the word 'robot'. 17:09:26 AH, so you are correct. Greeks had robot concepts, didn't they? 17:09:38 The notion of an artificial man is very old. 17:09:44 ya. 17:11:05 Robot must mean something in a slavic language. I think Karel was slavic. 17:11:46 Possibly Yugoslavic or Croatian, or of that region. 17:11:55 Czech. I think it means 'work' or 'labour'. 17:12:07 Yes. 17:12:19 I believe I read that once. 17:12:35 1923, from Eng. translation of 1920 play "R.U.R." ("Rossum's Universal Robots"), by Karel Capek (1890-1938), from Czech robotnik "slave," from robota "forced labor, drudgery," from robotiti "to work, drudge," from Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude," from rabu "slave" (see slave), from a Slavic stem related to Ger. Arbeit "work" (O.H.G. arabeit). According to Rawson the word was popularized by Karel Capek's play, "but was coined 17:12:35 by his brother Josef (the two often collaborated), who used it initially in a short story." Robotics coined 1941 in a science fiction context by Isaac Asimov, who proposed the "Three Laws of Robotics" in 1968. 17:13:50 There it is. 17:13:51 Ty k4jcw :) 17:14:03 :) 17:15:01 human chat law #1. Don't go on and on talking about something you know absolutely nothing about, allowing the time for someone else to be just less lazy then you to trump you with the google results. 17:16:27 I can credit my misspent youth for coming up with my partial input 17:16:29 That's my favorite rule to break ;) 17:16:53 law #2. Never ever bring up anything that might matter emotionally to someone else. This includes religion, OS's, ( it goes on like that )... 17:17:36 law #3 don't think we can't figure out that we just kickbaned your last nick. 17:18:04 well, that's not so much a law as it is a defensive posture. 17:19:26 Quartus did you read RuR? We did in hs. 17:20:02 We played it out in class. From seats, ykwim. 17:20:45 Raystm2, I believe I read it about 20 years ago. 17:21:30 * Raystm2 forgets he's usually the oldest here, save pop-a-roach. 17:22:48 8th grade, so that's what, 12-13, 30 years for me. 17:23:32 How old are you Raystm2, if you don't mind me asking? 17:23:33 Now i'm depressed, ya'll talk amounst yer-selves. 17:23:48 43. about 5 days ago. 17:24:23 Anbidian: you? 17:24:57 24. 17:25:04 Happy belated birthday. 17:25:14 Ty. :) 17:25:20 24 is a great age. 17:25:45 I can't complain ;) 17:25:59 24 year old girls are wonderful. My wife was 24 or so when I met her. Legs down to there. :) 17:26:51 LOL. Amen. 17:26:52 Hair down to there too, I don't think she cut it till just before the wedding, ever in her life. 17:27:29 Why did she cut it for the wedding? 17:27:55 Hmm. I don't know. Would have covered up the pregnancy nicely, that much hair. :) 17:29:20 I was almost married once. Engaged for a year. Thank God that didn't happen. 17:30:16 The day that son finally figures out his gestation period is longer then the differance between our anniversary and his birthday, then realizes that we even had sex... "Hey --- HEY, Eeeewwwwhhh!" 17:30:30 hehehe Ya, was she psycho? 17:30:57 lol, he'll manage, all of had to face that trauma. 17:31:20 lol trauma. 17:31:58 She was actually really nice, but it wasn't for me. Far too much routine and obligation. 17:32:46 Ya. I advise against and early marriage, anymore. Life is long enough to put it off till you're established. 30something. 17:33:58 It's a settling down thing. I mean like metabolism settling. 17:35:04 *nods* I can cross that bridge when I come to it. 17:35:09 Heck, most don't even know what they want to do, 'til 30 something, and even then, they'll change it in their fourties. 17:35:13 Ya. 17:36:00 I'm lucky that I know what I want to do, but there is no career in it, so I'm looking for some compromise in the meantime. Though I wish I took compsci instead of psychology. 17:36:22 Compsci would depress you, you'd need the psych. :) 17:36:23 comPsycology ? 17:37:07 CompScichology? 17:37:20 ha. yeah, I might have took compsci and said "damn I should have chosen psychology". 17:37:26 computing-science 17:37:38 Besides, there would probably be no Forth jobs locally. 17:37:47 Never is. 17:37:49 :) 17:38:00 Locally is relative. Put your storefront on the web. 17:38:12 Maybe you could analyze analists? 17:38:20 Good point Quartus. 17:38:55 I find very few contexts where psychoanalysis has utility. 17:39:24 Except as a profession. It's got cashflow. 17:39:52 haha. True enough, though that is changing of course. 17:40:07 People will catch on to the scam. 17:40:19 before or after you have their check? 17:40:29 But it will re-invent itself, prob'ly. 17:40:33 Mental health is the #1 problem we need to solve. 17:40:49 First we have to solve Mental Healthcare. 17:41:21 Which means we need to learn how the brain works. 17:41:25 Those people making significant headway with mental illness are in a very similar situation to Forth -- they are ignored and marganilized and their methodology is misunderstood and considered too far outside the mainstream to be respectable. 17:41:42 So there's room for you to step in and assist. 17:41:53 Something about... every great idea... 17:42:03 ever known to man... 17:43:03 Flatworlders. They are everywhere. 17:44:25 * Anbidian hides his membership to the Flat Earth Society 17:44:30 :) 17:46:16 * Raystm2 hides his to the Flatten Earth Society. 17:47:10 By moving the Moon, we can Flatten Earth, providing more valuable realestate to developers... 17:47:46 I like how you think. 17:51:54 I read or heard somewhere that Van Allen died, like a month or two ago. 17:52:01 If I had the time I would learn Forth and write an application that would create psychological profiles based on a large and unconventional question set. 17:52:49 Wouldn't it be easier to just read the forths that these forthers create? There is much there, in the code, in the choices, in the names of words... 17:53:18 I don't follow? 17:53:51 I would not try and implement a forth. 17:58:26 I'm sorry, I meant, read Gforth, MVP, Quartus, RetroForth, colorForth, Isforth, and learn about he author's dain-bramage from that? 18:01:09 I've named my dyslexic brain Brian. 18:01:26 ! Only SEAForth for me. For $1000 dollars I can have a 1200 core system, and then can brag to all my friends who talk about their duo-core or soon to be quad-core x86's. Actually, I would probably go with something small, simple, and fast like maybe FPC for DOS. 18:02:18 lol. 18:02:33 1200 core system. hehe one for each font. 18:03:31 * Raystm2 thinks about... 18:03:59 What business do you have with 1200 fonts? 18:04:34 actually the price of $19.95 per SEAForth-24 processor is only in quantities of 10,000 and up I think. 18:04:44 I'm... expressive~. 18:04:54 *1,000 18:05:43 you must find IRC so limiting 18:06:03 Ya, but you can get samples, and you can get emulators to write the code that impresses Intellasys sufficiantly for you to bootstrap a device rollout... 18:07:18 Just, don't suck. That's the Human Chat Rule #3, no? 18:07:33 The most unforgiving of all the rules. 18:08:13 Absolutely. /me raises a Diet Dr. in Anbidian's general direction. 18:09:03 Weird, I just finished a can of Diet Dr. Pepper and it's sitting beside me. 18:11:31 I went on Diet Dr. Pepper and gained 11 needed pounds. 18:12:15 Nothing like phenylalanine toxicity to spur weight gain... 18:14:02 Is that what that is? Ph0ny LA-LA nine. Water, taste, color, can, profit. 18:14:48 OH and if we wanted too, we _could_ reuse the can, but why bother. 18:15:11 I'd like to build a storage shed out back with the cans and the boxes. 18:16:18 Your wife might not approve of the shed's appearance 18:16:49 Something to put the mower in. Garden tools. Radio. Well now it needs a power line so might as well ad phone, cable, internet, move out there cuz wife doesn't "Appreciate" appearance... 18:17:47 I've been testing out that web formula recently, create niche site, get traffic, get google adsense revenue, profit, and I have been finding that it is harder than I thought it was to attract traffic. 18:18:55 Yes. You need relevent content. You need to position everything in the window to maximize your hit rate. there is much we must learn. 18:19:19 position everything in the window to maximize your hit rate: could you elaborate on what you mean by that? 18:20:07 There are places on the screen when the page loads that you need the ADs to be in those positions to maximize the eyeball time. Or so I'm told. 18:20:30 They are easily ignored. 18:20:54 Gets to where I don't look down the right side of a page, ever. 18:21:13 Ah, I see. That's what I thought you meant. Some people have spent lots of time dealing with search engine optimization, add placement optimazation, etc., it's amazing. 18:21:21 'cept when i'm looking to buy something. 18:21:37 It's wholy scientific. 18:21:54 Wholey? 18:22:21 Hmm. Not sure which word is proper 18:22:45 do utilize adsense or anything like that on your sites? 18:23:08 That's why, you do your site many times, each with an incremental difference, and track what works. 18:23:35 Not yet Anbidian, but i'm studying the problem. 18:24:05 Do you have a potential concept/niche content you're evaluating and considering building a page around? 18:24:42 I have four ideas. 18:25:51 so not all your eggs in one basket 18:25:53 Anbidian: we have a chat, #biz for this kind of talk, and you and anyone is invited. I don't want to break rule #2. 18:26:11 * Anbidian nods 18:26:23 so that's what #biz is for 18:27:11 it's for free software developers looking for ways to help eachother earn enough from thier work that they can go on writing programs at leasure. 18:27:36 there wouldn't happen to be a channel log anywhere? 18:28:12 I've got a log here, but I don't know if it's being logged anywhere formal like. 18:28:33 My log is spotty and really the room has just started to get any real interest. 18:28:45 *nods* that is okay then. 19:51:05 --- quit: Anbidian ("phone") 20:37:30 --- join: Anbidian (i=anbidian@S0106000fb09cff56.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 20:42:55 --- quit: Anbidian () 20:49:51 --- join: Anbidian (i=anbidian@S0106000fb09cff56.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth 23:23:00 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.09.13