00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.31
00:40:06 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:09:28 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth
01:11:07 <Quiznos> morning virl
01:54:56 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection)
01:57:04 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth
02:16:33 --- quit: virl ("Verlassend")
04:04:56 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth
04:47:00 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool236-66.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
06:10:28 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth
06:31:25 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...")
06:40:43 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm
06:59:44 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection)
07:00:03 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth
07:15:34 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
07:16:31 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-195-225.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
07:18:48 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool238-194.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
07:21:09 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth
07:21:33 <PoppaVic> hey, mad ;-)
07:27:34 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:33:51 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
07:34:13 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
07:35:03 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
08:01:06 <PoppaVic> Any fun today, mad?
08:07:41 <Quiznos> crap, i cant even get an answer on unexec() from Emacs where it's been used for YEARS!!!
08:09:47 <PoppaVic> hehehe
08:19:03 <madwork> Another super crazy deadline, of course.
08:20:22 <PoppaVic> ouchies
08:21:57 --- join: mark4 (n=mark4@63.163.143.187) joined #forth
08:30:13 --- nick: Ray_work -> Ray-work
08:33:12 --- quit: mark4 ("Leaving")
08:34:26 --- nick: Ray-work -> Raywork
08:36:17 --- nick: Raywork -> Ray_work
08:38:00 --- quit: Ray_work ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
09:06:18 <Quiznos> you know what, i'm struggling to understand unexec and here i've found a damn log of this channel from 2004 where tathi, i440r, slava, and herkamire already hashed this out 
09:07:09 <PoppaVic> what did you learn? I've never heard of it
09:07:56 <Quiznos> not much in the particular thread i found of them discussing it but the point is that they did and i asked here a few weeks ago and got nothing
09:08:11 <Quiznos> i440r was asking about it for his forth
09:08:31 <PoppaVic> translations/meanings
09:09:01 <PoppaVic> well, most of those guys are rare or busy
09:09:04 <Quiznos> it also appears that the unexec() concept has been replaced with pdump in Emacs developement, so i need to look into that too
09:09:09 <Quiznos> yea
09:09:19 <Quiznos> but i440 is the one who was asking about it
09:09:27 <PoppaVic> hehehe
09:09:45 <Quiznos> i think i4 was
09:09:58 <Quiznos> first mention of unexec that day was from slava
09:10:03 <PoppaVic> Quiznos: remember - even the best can brainfart and cry for help for a jumpstart
09:10:22 <PoppaVic> I've never heard of the call
09:10:26 <Quiznos> of course
09:10:31 <Quiznos> ok
09:11:03 <Quiznos> unexec() allows a running binary to save its in-core code and data to a new binary on storage 
09:11:23 <Quiznos> (in forth context)
09:11:32 <PoppaVic> Quiznos: this is a major reason I piss off newbies in ##C... I'll answer any guy I respect that is freaking and has helped folks for a long time, and the rest I refer to books, pages or manpages.
09:11:51 <Quiznos> heh
09:12:33 <PoppaVic> Quiznos: so, it's a statewise env-save as sort of a prelude to reloading and task-swapping?
09:12:44 <Quiznos> (on unix only) start kernel.com, load, compile the rest of the forth source code, then do fsave which creates a new binary
09:12:52 <PoppaVic> ahh
09:13:02 <Quiznos> right, and the load time of the new binary is drammatically shorter
09:13:06 <PoppaVic> weird - sounds like "turnkey"
09:13:20 <Quiznos> and with Emacs binaries, that's a HUGE win at start times
09:13:33 <PoppaVic> emacs is a nice OS
09:13:37 * PoppaVic snorts
09:13:45 <Quiznos> yea, it would be a turnkey kind of thing
09:13:50 <Quiznos> heh wipe your nose
09:14:17 <Quiznos> but with unix binaries, there are several binary file formats that can be used
09:14:27 <Quiznos> aout, elf, coff, ecoff
09:14:29 <Quiznos> for instance
09:14:30 <PoppaVic> ok. It's akin to generating and reloading a pcoded "turnkey" or "image" (where the image is reloadable to the same offset)
09:14:53 <Quiznos> right, i think
09:14:58 <Quiznos> i'm still learning this stuff
09:15:05 <PoppaVic> not hard to grasp, sorta' like a .superCOM file
09:15:32 <PoppaVic> or a mmap to a particular "zero"
09:15:38 <Quiznos> well a DOS .com file would be easy to turnkey, just write the 64k seg to a file 
09:15:58 <PoppaVic> yeppers, but that'd not help you much
09:16:00 <Quiznos> on linux, you can choose which binary format to have linux kernel use
09:16:06 <PoppaVic> yeppers
09:16:12 <Quiznos> aout, elf, misc, and i know of binfmt also
09:16:21 <Quiznos> which is the linux equiv of DOS .com files
09:16:43 <Quiznos> now, with binfmt, one could use nasm/fasm to generate a linux "com" file
09:16:53 <PoppaVic> This is why Gforth went with an engine, Vmgen and C - and why Asm's drive me even more nuts than C's
09:16:53 <Quiznos> which simplifies life tremendously
09:17:01 <Quiznos> heh
09:17:28 <Quiznos> with binmisc, java apps are execd
09:17:58 <PoppaVic> basically, yer <foo>  wants to provide a linker, loader and "assembler" (which is aware of the former two formats)
09:18:21 <Quiznos> unexec() isnt a libc call, it's code included in the binary
09:18:28 <Quiznos> at least in emacs family
09:18:29 <PoppaVic> This is how Java plays, and maybe some lisps
09:18:59 <PoppaVic> I'm trying to decide how I can flog this crap
09:19:22 <Quiznos> well, the unexec code i've seen doesnt change the paths in the binary, but i havent read all the code
09:19:42 <Quiznos> and finally
09:19:47 <PoppaVic> it seems to require: 1) a level of indirection and 2) a lot of source-readdresing (like macros or inline)
09:20:04 <Quiznos> i have this nagging thawt that the final code i write is gonna be rediciulously simple
09:20:17 <Quiznos> in what?
09:20:17 <PoppaVic> Quiznos: welcome to the club
09:20:23 <Quiznos> heh yea thanks
09:20:39 <Quiznos> i'm gonna have to review the linuxassembly project code too
09:20:49 <Quiznos> cuz tht is the essence of what i need right there
09:21:44 <PoppaVic> Afaiac, I want to write in cpp & C and make - and THIS is why I want a single tool. I'm trying a lot of reconciliation
09:21:50 <Quiznos> btw, the last two posts were no confession of dread
09:21:58 <Quiznos> just realisation given what i already know
09:21:59 <Quiznos> :)
09:22:02 <PoppaVic> oh, I should have added "and sh" - and forth is better right up the line.
09:22:27 <Quiznos> yea; have to finished the $string based words yet?
09:22:38 <Quiznos> aha sh-stuff?
09:22:40 <Quiznos> ala
09:22:46 <PoppaVic> What bugs me is when shit thinks it can poke foo into any bar
09:22:51 <Quiznos> heh
09:23:40 <PoppaVic> I tend to sorta' agree with file-perms related to mmaps and such
09:24:05 <Quiznos> yea
09:24:23 <Quiznos> i had thought that i'd need to feed on that but i'm straying away from it
09:24:37 <Quiznos> taht info is too personal
09:24:39 <Quiznos> that
09:24:42 <PoppaVic> otherwise, some idjit is likely to lurk until he can spring his stupidity.
09:25:17 <Quiznos> well there's always two
09:25:19 <Quiznos> of them
09:25:38 <PoppaVic> no, there is a hole and a penis.
09:25:52 <PoppaVic> I prefer not to enable the penis
09:25:56 <Quiznos> lol
09:26:31 <Quiznos> so i google with ``+fig +forth +.zip'' and google told me ALOT of christian pages; i have no idear how that happened
09:26:40 <Quiznos> it's kinda funi
09:26:47 <PoppaVic> I'd be quite happy to never allow any special root-access opcode, and force them to run sudo or whatever
09:27:10 <Quiznos> ring0 opcodes wont run in ring3
09:29:32 <PoppaVic> I don't dick with rings and pcs anymore - let alone asm
09:30:38 <PoppaVic> otoh, that ain't a bad idea for bytecodes and usual *nix user/group/other stuff - good thinking.
09:31:01 <Quiznos> yw
09:31:54 <PoppaVic> bad phrasing though... Given 255 codes, NOW I gotta' cogitate whom might run when.
09:32:25 <PoppaVic> prolly need to review mmap now too, yah bastard! ;-)
09:33:23 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
09:33:59 <Quiznos> heh ponder and larn
09:34:16 <PoppaVic> bastard ;-)
09:34:34 <Quiznos> "bistard" is the approved vernacular :)
09:34:39 <Ray_work> someone call? What did you need PoppaVic?
09:34:45 <Quiznos> heh
09:34:56 <Ray_work> Hey, you don't know my parents.
09:35:05 <Ray_work> And neither do I, so...
09:35:54 <PoppaVic> Ray_work: nahh... Quiznos just managed to screw my universe tighter - and it was already a mess.
09:36:05 <Quiznos> lol
09:36:11 <Quiznos> i'm honored
09:36:13 <Quiznos> i'm touched
09:36:19 <Quiznos> i'm just abit concerned
09:36:24 <Quiznos> lol
09:36:38 <Ray_work> lol
09:36:46 <Quiznos> you need better locking nuts
09:36:49 <Quiznos> heh
09:37:12 <PoppaVic> yeah - it opens more doors I preferred to keep locked: we are getting too fuckin' many wild-beasts in the hallway
09:37:30 <Quiznos> just stop feeding them
09:38:08 <Ray_work> locktite $80.00 a bottle. Funnel and surgical tubing $23.50. Being able to reach your own ass, PRICELESS.
09:38:10 <PoppaVic> they still can rampage
09:38:11 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=roger@136.160.196.114) joined #forth
09:38:15 <Ray_work> locktite $80.00 a bottle. Funnel and surgical tubing $23.50. Being able to reach your own ass, PRICELESS.
09:38:16 <Quiznos> lol
09:38:25 <Ray_work> for rabbitwhite's benefit.
09:39:16 <PoppaVic> dude, I spent like $32 for wipers yesterday - the salesguy was even nice enough to install the fuckers... I could NOT find the access-pt for release (the bastards hide it now)
09:39:34 <Quiznos> it's usually in "the middle"
09:40:22 <PoppaVic> no, it took a screwdriver, and poking and lifting and dropping and - well, I can see why my brother the "meka-nik" makes bucks.
09:40:35 <Quiznos> lol
09:41:03 <Quiznos> ok, i need to gotta go out and fight the cowardly world
09:41:04 <Quiznos> bbl
09:41:21 <PoppaVic> rock on
09:41:32 <Quiznos> yea tankers away
09:41:34 <Quiznos> gone
09:42:28 <PoppaVic> I got too goddamned many "details" to ponder, I swear
09:43:04 <rabbitwhite> and me ... speechless
09:46:50 <Ray_work> :)
09:51:41 <rabbitwhite> i fucked up 
09:51:45 <rabbitwhite> a little bit
09:53:24 <rabbitwhite> i hate when i do this because it means i have to back up but at least i realized it
09:57:52 <rabbitwhite> feh
10:05:26 --- quit: segher (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
10:05:52 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-138-252.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
10:12:53 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...")
10:31:09 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:31:17 <JasonWoof> what's the usual filename in a *nix project for a file that his info on how to hack the sources?
10:31:25 <JasonWoof> I've got README already
10:32:44 <Quartus> INSTALL maybe
10:32:45 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
10:35:41 --- quit: rabbitwhite ()
10:38:32 <virl> perhpas README.HACKING
10:39:02 <virl> (we are on unix.. ther this doesn't make a problem..)
10:39:17 <Quartus> MODIFY might be suitable, though I don't think I've seen it used.
10:40:19 <k4jcw> If you used automake, it would create all the files in a standard distribution, and tell you what goes in each one :)
10:41:40 <virl> k4jcw, tztzt.. don't call it automake... wise PoppaVic farted that it's called autoshit
10:41:52 <virl> ;-)
10:42:45 <k4jcw> I have him ignored, so I wouldn't know what he says anymore.  Not that I could ever understand anything he said before, anyway.
10:42:47 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
10:44:23 <ccfg> I've seen plain HACKING used quite some times
10:45:50 <k4jcw> "Oooh, I fixed a misspelled word in the -h help text.  I hacked it!"
10:47:31 <JasonWoof> thanks
10:47:47 <JasonWoof> README.foo works well
10:48:04 <JasonWoof> I realized I just wanted to write about hacking the font, and details associated, so I named it README.font
10:48:09 <Quartus> Make sense.
10:48:20 <Quartus> Might want to mention that file in the main README.
10:50:48 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth
10:51:02 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:51:26 <JasonWoof> eh
10:51:41 <JasonWoof> not that important
10:51:49 <JasonWoof> just for people that are curious or want to mess with it
10:51:55 <JasonWoof> those people should be hunting around
10:52:02 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth
10:52:31 <JasonWoof> our README is mostly for people who just want to play the game
10:54:01 <Quartus_> just make sure people know how to turn off the flaming dance music :)
10:54:20 <JasonWoof> I wrote another winner: s/\\/\/\//
10:54:30 <JasonWoof> changes forth style comments to c++ style
10:54:39 <JasonWoof> heh
10:54:50 <JasonWoof> the music is still off by default
10:55:42 <virl> JasonWoof, how is your forth going on?
10:55:56 <Quartus_> that's one irksome thing about retro -- not that it has | as a line-comment word, but that \ effectively crashes the compiler.
10:56:03 <virl> is there a new release which also works on my box?
10:56:28 <virl> good retro, that's a plus..
10:56:55 <JasonWoof> virl: I haven't been working on my forth for a while
10:57:30 <Quartus_> about as much of a plus as if + did a multiply, or DUP stored a value in a variable.
10:59:40 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:00:54 <JasonWoof> Quartus_: can you do something easy like:  : \ postpone | ; immediate
11:01:37 <Quartus_> which I do in the standard layer.
11:02:18 <Quartus_> I still trip on it when I write something that can run either side of the layer.
11:03:46 <Quartus_> also | isn't immediate itself!
11:06:06 <virl> well.. crc found it perhaps not ok to have comments in words..
11:06:32 <Quartus_> retro's my first time writing forth in a system where words can be found before the definition is complete. And there's no SMUDGE equivalent. Frustrating, that.
11:07:33 <virl> where words can be found before the definition is complete?
11:07:47 <Quartus_> The standard layer amends that for compliance, but again I stub my toe on it when I move a snippet pre-layer.
11:08:10 <Quartus_> yes. You recurse by using the word name.
11:09:11 <JasonWoof> yeah
11:09:12 <JasonWoof> I do that
11:09:24 <JasonWoof> probably out of lazyness at first
11:09:30 <JasonWoof> but I got to like it
11:09:45 <JasonWoof> : fooever ." foo" fooever ;
11:09:51 <Quartus_> which is not usually what I want. Usually I want to reference the already-existing word.
11:10:00 <JasonWoof> right
11:10:09 <JasonWoof> I found that I usually wanted to recurse
11:10:10 <Quartus_> and to do that you need smudge.
11:10:23 <JasonWoof> what's smudge?
11:10:30 <Quartus_> I rarely use recursion, so.
11:10:54 <JasonWoof> ahh
11:11:01 <Quartus_> smudge is antique Forth, it screws with the name in the header in a reversible way.
11:11:02 <JasonWoof> it's the only sort of non-counted loop I use
11:11:17 <JasonWoof> in my forth I just have: if then for next
11:11:23 <Quartus_> I use'em all.
11:11:30 <JasonWoof> and a few conditional exits. oh, and unloop
11:11:52 <JasonWoof> my forth doesn't allow redefining words anyway
11:12:06 <JasonWoof> so there's no such thing as calling the old one
11:13:17 <Quartus_> different animal then.
11:14:08 <JasonWoof> right
11:14:20 <JasonWoof> now point in creating a new definition over the first
11:14:25 <JasonWoof> when you can just change the first
11:14:42 <JasonWoof> bbl
11:14:51 <Quartus_> k
11:17:49 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
11:31:37 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-184-151.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
11:33:13 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:39:37 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
11:39:39 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42
11:48:56 --- join: peterre (i=psmith_1@unaffiliated/peterre) joined #forth
11:49:00 <peterre> hi
11:55:00 <Quiznos> is you is or is you not forth?
11:55:22 <Quiznos> is you is not or forth 0=?
11:55:36 <Quiznos> heh
11:55:42 <peterre> I came forth and entered #forth
11:55:54 <Quiznos> how about
11:56:01 <Quiznos> cam i forth entered leave
11:56:04 <Quiznos> came
11:56:11 <Quiznos> or
11:56:15 <Quiznos> lispy style,
11:56:23 <Quiznos> forth i came enter leave
11:56:40 <peterre> Are you speaking in a postfix variant of English :)
11:56:48 <Quiznos> he and in c that would devolve to
11:56:56 <Quiznos> while( forthy()) ;
11:56:59 <Quiznos> heh
11:57:20 <Quiznos> peterre english is ambidextrous
11:58:06 <peterre> I'm ambipedestrian. I kick equally well with either foot.
11:58:07 <Quiznos> or, in gnupackage-ese
11:58:10 <Quiznos> fribidi
11:58:14 <Quiznos> heh
11:58:16 <Quiznos> lol
11:58:35 <peterre> But I'm not an op in this channel, so can't demonstrate that to you :)
11:58:38 <Quiznos> or, in tritese, 010
11:58:52 <Quiznos> too bad, i'd bounce right back :)
11:59:12 <peterre> You'd have to come to my own channel for a demo :)
11:59:23 <Quiznos> let's not and say we did.
12:00:18 <peterre> Anyway, my channel is on Undernet
12:00:32 <Quiznos> ew, i'm a refugee from unet from a decade ago
12:00:36 <Quiznos> i'm not going back
12:00:59 <peterre> What didn't you like about it?
12:01:22 <Quiznos> when i went back it was the roodest place i'd ever read
12:01:25 <Quiznos> then i went to efnet
12:01:29 <Quiznos> and it was worse
12:01:36 <peterre> I thought that DALnet was the rudest
12:01:45 <Quiznos> i havent gone back yet
12:02:12 <Quiznos> but i went to dalnet first when it was just building sticks and wires
12:02:13 <peterre> Anyway, I'm here to find out more about forth. I've already taken a quick look at the websites that are mentioned in the channel topic
12:02:17 <Quiznos> no developement :)
12:02:26 <Quiznos> good, welcome
12:02:31 <peterre> thanks
12:02:50 <Quiznos> see, that wouldnt be offered on either under/ef/dal-nets
12:03:06 <peterre> I guess I need to install forth on my Windows machine
12:03:08 <Quiznos> it's not the networks that sux, it's that the people are ungrateful
12:03:11 <Quiznos> k
12:03:23 <Quiznos> did you locate a suitable package?
12:03:57 <peterre> Not yet. What would you recommend? Would gforth be a good choice?
12:04:08 <Quiznos> sure
12:04:18 <peterre> or are there others that I should consider.
12:04:21 <Quiznos> but i dont do windows
12:04:33 <peterre> It seems that gforth does windows ok
12:04:37 <Quiznos> ok
12:05:28 <peterre> I assume that it's a complete forth, not just a toy, and has fun things like create does> and compiler words (or whatever you call those words where the precedence bit is set)
12:05:39 <Quiznos> corect
12:05:50 <Quiznos> it's a full implementation
12:05:58 <Quiznos> but i dont use it
12:06:04 <Quiznos> :)
12:06:09 <peterre> or are those things called by different names now. My forth vocabulary dates back many years to probably a previous standard of forth
12:06:17 <peterre> Which one do you use?
12:06:19 <Quiznos> which one?
12:06:30 <Quiznos> i grew up with f83 and fig
12:06:33 <Quiznos> and Brodie
12:07:00 <Quiznos> currently designing my own now
12:07:04 <Quiznos> a modest little thing
12:07:15 <peterre> lemme check. It's not that I actually used it. It's that I've been reading an old book (which is excellent, BTW). Lemme check the title and author
12:07:26 <peterre> brb
12:07:31 <Quiznos> k
12:08:30 <peterre> "The Complete Forth" by Alan Winfield. Published in 1983.
12:08:39 <Quiznos> i prolaby have that too
12:08:48 <Quiznos> somewhere
12:09:13 <peterre> I dunno which variety of forth it describes
12:09:25 <Quiznos> read the preface
12:09:35 <peterre> Ahh yes I do. It's FORTH-79
12:09:39 <Quiznos> k
12:09:55 <peterre> How different would gforth be from that?
12:10:04 <Quiznos> very
12:10:18 <Quiznos> gforth is ANS i think but read its docs
12:10:30 <Quiznos> btw, dont just ftp one forth, get them all
12:10:38 <Quiznos> and read since you have 3 decades to recover
12:10:44 <peterre> but presumably not in any fundamental way - perhaps it has more editor tools etc but the language itself is pretty much the same
12:11:23 <peterre> I read somewhere that ANS forth was claimed by some to be a step backward. I've no idea how or why that should be true
12:12:01 <Quiznos> i dont really have an ans opine but others here might
12:12:16 <Quiznos> also, you can join the google.group forth news groups 
12:12:17 <peterre> How different is ANS forth (the language itself as distinct from the programming environment) from FORTH-79. How does fig forth differ from those?
12:12:40 <peterre> Surely they can differ only in detail
12:13:09 <Quiznos> "detail" is a degree. i'd say alot, but tha'ts an opinion
12:13:26 <peterre> Could you give an example of a difference?
12:13:29 <Quiznos> when the others here decide to interact you can ask them
12:13:33 <Quiznos> i couldnt, no.
12:13:49 <Quiznos> oh, one:
12:13:58 <Quiznos> fig has the word `vlist'
12:14:02 <Quiznos> f79 too
12:14:10 <Quiznos> f83 changed it to `words'
12:14:16 <Quiznos> and that's it till now
12:14:24 <Quiznos> bye is always available
12:14:32 <peterre> ahh, but renaming a word is just a trivial difference, IMO.
12:14:37 <Quiznos> no[
12:15:11 <peterre> Did you say that you were implementing your own variant of forth? There seem to be many. What are the important characteristics of your own version?
12:15:24 <Quiznos> has to be written in assembler
12:15:37 <Quiznos> poppavic is writing one in C
12:15:42 <Quiznos> he's crasy :)
12:15:45 <Quiznos> lol
12:16:01 <Quiznos> but not for using C
12:16:20 <Quartus> peterre, the standard document (in the topic) has a discussion in its appendix of the difference between Forth 79, Forth 83 and the ISO standard.
12:16:21 <Quiznos> for mine, also
12:16:31 <Quiznos> small, fast, and all the other good forthy adjectives
12:16:38 <peterre> But how does your forth-like language differ from ANS forth? Is it more powerful in some way? OOP? Abstract data types? A clever namespace scheme?
12:16:57 <peterre> Thanks Quartus
12:17:00 <Quiznos> not terribly disobedient as yet; i'm still dealing with implementing the core
12:17:54 <peterre> I'll do some reading at those websites mentioned in the topic, then perhaps return to pester you with more questions :)
12:18:00 <Quiznos> cool
12:18:01 <Quartus> Ok! :)
12:18:06 <Quiznos> be well.
12:18:12 <peterre> Thank you
12:18:15 <peterre> You too
12:18:20 <Quiznos> ty
12:18:31 --- quit: Quartus_ ("used jmIrc")
12:18:39 <peterre> I must go too
12:18:44 <peterre> bb sometime
12:18:49 <Quiznos> k
12:18:49 --- quit: peterre ()
12:19:17 <Quiznos> a former agnostic returns to the fold
12:19:20 <Quiznos> lol
12:27:39 <Ray_work> :)
12:28:37 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth
12:43:36 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood)
12:44:18 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth
12:47:44 <Quiznos> I440r i blame you
12:53:58 <I440r> ?
12:54:05 <I440r> i wasnt even here :P
12:57:24 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
12:59:07 <Quiznos> from 2004
12:59:10 <Quiznos> lol
13:01:43 <I440r> lol
13:02:07 <Quiznos> dont try to make excuses!!!
13:08:09 <virl> yeah! blame him..
13:08:14 <Quiznos> i did
13:08:24 <virl> oh... so funky!
13:12:08 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:17:25 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
13:24:10 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:24:14 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
13:26:59 --- nick: Ray-work -> Raystm2
13:27:28 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
13:28:21 --- nick: Raystm2 -> Ray-work
13:34:18 --- join: Ray-work_ (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
13:35:29 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:44:17 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
13:48:37 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:54:19 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
14:01:21 --- quit: Ray-work_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:10:55 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:19:20 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
14:34:35 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:44:22 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
14:59:26 --- join: Ray-work_ (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
15:00:34 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:00:56 --- quit: Ray-work_ (Client Quit)
15:17:36 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:47:28 --- quit: fission (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:06:10 <Zarutian> Ray: you on wireless or GPRS network?
16:06:40 <Zarutian> ahh, I thougth he was here but I got the join/part count wrong
16:09:00 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2
16:09:13 <Raystm2> hi Zarutian
16:09:21 <Raystm2> I'm Ray-work as well, at work.
16:09:41 <Raystm2> The work computer is on a t1 but for some reason we dropped out a lot today.
16:10:34 <Raystm2> I think everybody was watching comedy vids on Google today.
16:30:36 --- join: dmeier (n=chatzill@softbank220041003161.bbtec.net) joined #forth
16:31:35 --- quit: dmeier (Remote closed the connection)
16:32:34 <Raystm2> It won't happen any more tonight. I shut that machine down.
16:59:45 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth
17:02:48 <Quartus_> we have a channel-specific pastebin, now (see topic)
17:04:44 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection)
17:10:08 <Raystm2> Neat Neal.
17:10:29 <Raystm2> Topic looks great.
17:24:30 <Quartus_> hope it helps newcomers who might otherwise run from some of the verbose nutcases we get in here.
17:29:15 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:29:46 --- quit: Quiznos ("Disconnecting")
17:30:36 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@unaffiliated/quiznos) joined #forth
17:39:51 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
17:39:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava
17:53:56 --- join: Anbidian (i=anbidian@S0106000fb09cff56.ed.shawcable.net) joined #forth
18:03:19 --- nick: aggieben -> aggieben_
18:03:56 <Raystm2> I'm reading the wikipeidia link now. :0
18:04:31 <Raystm2> that's a pretty darn good start. Though I have a few ideas for that page.
18:05:12 --- nick: aggieben_ -> aggieben
18:05:24 <Raystm2> Taken in context with some of the links that are inlined in the text, it could be better written to make moving from a link back to this page more seamless, readwise.
18:07:18 <Raystm2> Otherwise, it's pretty darn concise.
18:08:03 <Quartus_> it's not bad. Liz Rather had a hand in revising it.
18:08:54 <slava> which page is this?
18:08:57 <Raystm2> Many different aspects of Forth confused me as I learned on my own. If I had this first, I would have had a better handle on simple things like "litteral" and compile, , compile. on and on.
18:09:29 <Raystm2> hi slava, first link in /topic
18:09:57 <Raystm2> http://tinyurl.com/kvawv 
18:10:16 <Quiznos> nite folks i'm done
18:10:19 <Raystm2> forwards to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_programming_language
18:10:30 <Raystm2> 'nite Quiznos
18:10:39 <Quiznos> nite ray
18:49:56 --- quit: Quartus_ ("used jmIrc")
19:27:05 --- quit: Anbidian (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:40:49 <JasonWoof> wikipedia is amazing
19:40:55 <JasonWoof> I decided to look up 7: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7
19:41:00 <JasonWoof> quit a bit of info
19:41:03 <JasonWoof> it's about the year
19:42:56 <JasonWoof> has way way more information about the number 7 though
19:43:04 <JasonWoof> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_%28number%29
19:43:23 <Quartus> It worries me a little that there are marginal types out there who clearly devote significant time to typing in everything they know about something.
19:48:24 <JasonWoof> it takes all kinds
19:48:39 <Quartus> It takes about a dozen kinds, and they're all good. The rest, we wouldn't miss.
19:48:58 <JasonWoof> I spent 3 or 4 hours last night fiddling with generating a cool font and messing with code to display text with it
19:54:25 <JasonWoof> this is for VoR
19:54:29 <JasonWoof> which already has a fine font
19:54:33 <Quartus> Does that stand for something?
19:54:49 <JasonWoof> Variations on Rockdodger
19:55:07 <JasonWoof> we forked Rockdodger 0.4
19:55:13 <Quartus> Oh ok.
19:55:53 <JasonWoof> we eventually plan to make it so you can have lots of choices about how the game works
19:56:36 <JasonWoof> ie do the rocks bounce off eachother? is there gravity? how strong are your thrusters? how fast does the game run?
19:56:39 <JasonWoof> etc etc
19:56:55 <JasonWoof> maybe have different objectives or optional IA guys
19:57:21 <Quartus> Keep you off the streets, anyway. :)
19:57:37 <JasonWoof> so far the only thing you can mess with at runtime is game speed and how hard you bounce off the edges of the screen
19:57:52 <Quartus> I didn't play it long enough to realize the screen had edges.
19:58:13 <JasonWoof> well, most edges get out of your way
19:59:00 <JasonWoof> there's a bit of leeway, but after a while you have to make at least a certain amount of progress to the right or the left edge of the screen will catch up with you
19:59:11 <Quartus> I see.
19:59:34 <JasonWoof> I'd guess the leeway is somewhere between half a screen and a whole screen
23:05:24 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-19-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth
23:35:59 <Quartus> RetroForth ANS package update: http://retroforth.net/board/index.php/topic,310.msg1599.html#msg1599
23:43:12 <Quartus> Bunch o' new stuff.
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.08.31