00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.26
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00:02:04 <Quiznos> found the original figforth source i think
00:02:37 <Quiznos> it's on taygeta as figforth8088.zip
00:03:25 <Quartus> Retracted the last Retro ANS change.  Corrected version at http://quartus.net/retro/retro-ans.fs
00:04:31 <Quartus> The original FIG was 6502.
00:05:13 <Quiznos> umm i dont recall
00:05:22 <Quartus> It's not a question, it's a statement.
00:05:45 <Quiznos> same with mine
00:05:54 <Quiznos> :>
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00:24:12 <Quartus> Ok, fixed the issues.  ACCEPT, prompt, key revectoring are back in.  http://quartus.net/retro/retro-ans.fs
00:24:57 <Quiznos> found fig forth v1.3, 18jul81 for 8080 cpu
00:25:16 <Quiznos> Quartus a note in that file says:
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00:25:47 <Quiznos> ``Bill McGee 30 Mar 83 for APPLE ][''
00:25:55 <Quiznos> so, you're previous post was incorrect
00:26:12 <Quartus> You think FIG Forth was written first in 1983, is that what you're trying to say?
00:26:19 <Quiznos> no
00:26:31 <Quiznos> i'm not tryin to convey that at all
00:26:49 <Quartus> Then what?
00:26:53 <Quiznos> i'm just correcting our collective memories
00:27:14 <Quiznos> i lub history :)
00:27:22 <Quartus> The original FIG listing was for 6502, based on Ragsdale's work.  I don't know what file you scraped up from 1983 for the Apple ][ or the 8080, but it isn't the original FIG listing.
00:27:55 <Quiznos> ok, then i'll keep lookin
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00:47:30 <Quiznos> found fig v1.1, 17sep79 for 8080
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05:25:14 <nighty> back to canada :)
05:25:16 <nighty> lo
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10:36:27 <JasonWoof> moo
11:02:08 <nanstm> baa
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12:43:13 <JasonWoof> boo-yaa!
12:43:23 <JasonWoof> 4:31.8 in vor :)
12:43:26 <Quartus> What animal makes that noise?
12:43:40 <Quartus> What's a vor?
12:48:05 <JasonWoof> jasonwoof.org/vor
12:48:41 <Quartus> Ah. Spacewar.
12:49:15 <JasonWoof> hmm... maybe I'll make a release now
12:50:17 <JasonWoof> Quartus: do you have djgpp?
12:50:24 <JasonWoof> or whatever that's called. gcc for windoze
12:50:32 <Quartus> Used to, but I'm not sure there's a working build on here.
12:50:45 <JasonWoof> mingw
12:50:45 <Quartus> Cygwin, I think, is the thing to use.
12:50:49 <Quartus> Right, that's it. mingw.
12:51:01 <JasonWoof> we've got a makefile for windows
12:51:05 <JasonWoof> but I don't have windows
12:51:18 <JasonWoof> my cousin who compiled the last windows build is without computer for a couple months
12:51:26 <Quartus> Says here I used to have mingw.  I can reinstall it.
12:52:27 <JasonWoof> I need to do some integration and testing
12:56:25 <JasonWoof> I fixed a couple bugs on my laptop at camp, but I think I had an out of date version and at least one was fixed already in the main sources
12:59:06 <JasonWoof> had a weird rounding issue
12:59:22 <JasonWoof> think it happened on my laptop (which is x86) but not on my ppc desktop
13:00:03 <JasonWoof> I was checking if a float number was greater than or equal to an integer
13:00:34 <JasonWoof> bounds checking to be sure it was on the screen
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13:00:56 <JasonWoof> every 5-30 minutes it would try to draw a pixel just off the bottom of the screen
13:01:15 <JasonWoof> because the float number was rounding down when I was checking it and rounding up later
13:08:29 <Quartus> Ok, huge cramping pain trying to figure out what mingw bits & pieces to install.
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13:17:53 <Quartus> Located the damned installer.
13:18:12 <Quartus> Why is OSS so often associated with incredibly badly-organized websites and documentation?
13:19:08 <JasonWoof> because they are made by computer programmers
13:19:26 <JasonWoof> just because you can write good computer programs doesn't mean you can write english well
13:19:46 <Quartus> Crappy ones, probably.  If a guy can't publish his work properly, why am I to expect that he can write it properly in the first place?
13:20:05 <Quartus> Hey, I'd take broken english over a complete 'here's a list of a hundred files, good luck guessing where the installer is'.
13:20:08 <JasonWoof> "90% of everything is crud."
13:20:19 <Quartus> Sturgeon actually said 95%.
13:20:25 <JasonWoof> oh
13:20:27 <JasonWoof> thanks
13:20:52 <JasonWoof> that's the problem with getting quotes from my dad
13:21:10 <Quartus> Oh hang on.  I think it is 90%. Sorry about that.  "That's because 90% of everything is crud."
13:21:36 <Quartus> "Sure, 90% of science fiction is crud. That's because 90% of everything is crud."
13:22:38 <Quartus> I am apparently installing MinGW.
13:24:20 <JasonWoof> I'm trying to generate the graphics on my laptop
13:24:27 <JasonWoof> pnmtopng is returning 1 without explanation
13:24:43 <JasonWoof> oh, that was stupid
13:24:48 <JasonWoof> it was giving an explanation
13:24:55 <Quartus> Ok, mingw claims to be installed.  Doubtless it doesn't bother to set up any path information at all, so making it the compiler work may be an additional challenge.
13:24:58 <JasonWoof> thought I deleted that 2>/dev/null
13:25:43 <JasonWoof> We've got this in our Makefile.win:
13:25:43 <JasonWoof> CC := gcc
13:25:44 <JasonWoof> LDFLAGS := -mwindows -lmingw32 -lSDLmain -lSDL -lSDL_image -lSDL_mixer
13:25:44 <JasonWoof> CFLAGS := -Wall -O3 -ISDL
13:26:06 <Quartus> I compiled a hello-world.
13:26:38 <Quartus> I can give your project a shot, but if it complains of missing this and missing that, I may need to consult.
13:26:49 <JasonWoof> sheesh
13:27:09 <Quartus> That's not a reflection on you :) It's a reflection on what may or may not now be installed.
13:27:17 <JasonWoof> pnmtopng: can't open color names database file named [...] Set RGBDEF to the pathname of your rgb.txt or don't use color names.
13:27:32 <JasonWoof> all this because we were passing "-transparent black"
13:27:51 <JasonWoof> Quartus: thank you so much
13:27:58 <JasonWoof> I should have the sources ready for you soon
13:28:04 <Quartus> Ok. Let me know.
13:28:14 <JasonWoof> I want to test on my laptop first. which requires getting it to generate the graphics
13:28:17 <Quartus> 14625 bytes seems to be as small as it'll make "Hello World!".
13:28:31 <JasonWoof> think I've got it sorted though. I'm changing s/black/#000000/
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13:34:07 <JasonWoof> oh man, I should probably fix that one rock that's clipped a little on the top
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13:39:58 <JasonWoof> damn
13:40:09 <JasonWoof> still haven't fixed the funny bug
13:40:35 <JasonWoof> well, funny that it exists, not funny when it happens to you
13:40:40 <Quartus> heh
13:40:41 <JasonWoof> q quits the game
13:40:49 <JasonWoof> including when you're typing in your name for the high score
13:41:00 <Quartus> That's kind of funny.
13:41:17 <JasonWoof> josh and I never found tat bug
13:41:23 <JasonWoof> as we don't have qs in our names
13:43:20 <JasonWoof> I will fix that before this release :)
13:43:56 <Quartus> Quentin will be pleased.
13:45:30 <JasonWoof> :)
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13:54:47 <Quartus> Hey nighty. Back in Canada?
13:55:03 <nighty> Quartus, yes
13:55:10 <Quartus> Welcome back.
13:55:12 <nighty> Quartus, came back yesterday
13:55:18 <nighty> Quartus, thanks :)
13:55:22 <Quartus> :)
13:55:30 <nighty> Quartus, now I am trying to open my phone line
13:55:35 <nighty> Quartus, with Bell
13:55:39 <Quartus> Ah.
13:55:54 <nighty> Quartus, not an easy thing in Canada
13:55:58 <nighty> Quartus, it seems
13:56:05 <Quartus> I don't deal with Bell, fortunately.
13:57:02 <fission> heh
13:57:47 <fission> are they giving you a hard time?
13:57:53 <nighty> yes
13:57:56 <nighty> kind of
13:58:50 <JasonWoof> hah! there it is
13:58:55 <JasonWoof> found the fix for the q
13:59:05 <fission> nighty: why?
13:59:09 <JasonWoof> the change got orphaned when we switched repositories
13:59:50 <nighty> I don't know
13:59:59 <nighty> fission, I need a phone line
14:00:09 <nighty> fission, I just came to canada
14:01:04 <fission> o.O from where?
14:01:08 <fission> welcome :D
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14:23:44 <JasonWoof> OK, I'm done fiddling, and out of time besides
14:23:48 <JasonWoof> Quartus: here's the files: http://jasonwoof.com/downloads/vor-0.5-pre1.tgz
14:23:54 <JasonWoof> comes with graphics pre-rendered
14:24:14 <Quartus> Got'em.
14:24:14 <JasonWoof> You'll need a few libs though: sdl sdl_mixer and sdl_image
14:24:24 <Quartus> Oh. Shall I just google and download randomly?
14:24:35 <JasonWoof> you could grab them from vor-0.4-win
14:24:45 <Quartus> Which is at the same site?
14:25:12 <JasonWoof> oops, name conflict
14:25:18 <JasonWoof> looks like we called it 0.5 pre
14:25:28 <JasonWoof> guess I should make this release 0.6
14:25:39 <JasonWoof> anyway, this tarbal: http://qualdan.com/vor/vor-win-0.5pre.tar.gz
14:25:44 <JasonWoof> has the required libs in it
14:25:55 <Quartus> Ok, got it too.
14:25:58 <JasonWoof> main page for vor is jasonwoof.org/vor
14:26:06 <JasonWoof> sorry about the name mixup.
14:26:08 <Quartus> Got that. No worries.
14:26:21 <JasonWoof> I'll have to do some work on the text files before I make the release, but if you can build and test on windows I can do the rest
14:26:53 <Quartus> Ok, how soon do you need it?
14:27:24 <JasonWoof> no hurry
14:27:33 <JasonWoof> I've been thinking I should do this for a couple months
14:27:36 <Quartus> k, I'll try for a compile today, keep my fingers crossed.
14:28:31 <JasonWoof> Excelent
14:30:11 <JasonWoof> man, my dress clothes really need black pants
14:30:14 <JasonWoof> oh well
14:30:29 <JasonWoof> at least the shirt still fits
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15:03:35 <nighty> uhmm
15:09:42 <nighty> quartus: what is the addresses of the rogers email server ?
15:09:52 <Quartus> let me check
15:09:58 <nighty> quartus: the SMTP server
15:11:13 <Quartus> ping smtp   should give you the one you're supposed to use.  Mine's smtp-rog.mail.yahoo2.akadns.net right now.
15:11:40 <nighty> rogers is fucking anal to not allow its users to use any other outgoing mail servers
15:11:49 <Quartus> I use other outgoing mail servers all the time.
15:13:01 <Quartus> On a non-25 port, though.
15:13:44 <k4jcw> Most consumer ISPs do not.  Bellsouth, Earthlink, Charter, etc.
15:14:35 <k4jcw> I've given up trying to run my own mail server at home.
15:15:54 <nighty> k4jcw, they do not in North America
15:16:01 <nighty> k4jcw, they do in Europe
15:16:14 <nighty> k4jcw, and I am going to subscribe to Eicat 
15:16:19 <nighty> k4jcw, here in toronto 
15:16:41 <nighty> k4jcw, at least these guys know what they are talking about and do not try to restrain u 
15:17:00 <nighty> k4jcw, from using rightfully your ADSL connection
15:17:02 <nighty> :0
15:17:14 <Quartus> You can use non-rogers smtp just fine, on some other port than 25.  I just did it now.
15:17:14 <nighty> :)
15:17:23 <nighty> Quartus, I know
15:17:26 <k4jcw> Well, if we just shot spammers and virus writers on sight, we wouldn't have this problem.
15:17:46 <k4jcw> But because malware installs itself on poorly secured windows machines, and acts as a relay, it's the only protection we've got.
15:18:07 <nighty> k4jcw, don't use windows :)
15:18:18 <k4jcw> Tell that to upteen million consumers.
15:18:33 <nighty> k4jcw, I have been trying
15:18:46 <nighty> k4jcw, how come European ISP do not do this then ?
15:18:53 <nighty> k4jcw, :)
15:18:59 <Quartus> I'm sure you'd complain a lot harder about an ISP that told you what operating systems you were, and were not, allowed to use.
15:19:02 <k4jcw> Stop with the k4jcw, already!
15:19:13 <nighty> :0
15:20:09 <k4jcw> I don't know.  I'll ask some of my European friends in another channel (when they show up) if they are subject to that or not.
15:20:50 <Quartus> Europe is a multitude of jurisdictions; I imagine it's done differently in different quarters.
15:21:56 <k4jcw> Likely.
15:22:38 <k4jcw> OTOH, I find that routing all my outbound mail through bellsouth.net hasn't really created any problems.
15:22:48 <Quartus> Wanadoo in france is huge generator of spam; they need to take some kind of action.
15:24:06 <Quartus> Though I believe they block non-wanadoo smtp as well.  How effective this is, I don't nkow.
15:24:13 <k4jcw> At times, given the wide ranging natures and skill sets of internet users, I'm surprised a group hasn't spring up that goes around breaking spammers knees.
15:24:27 <Quartus> Hard to track'em down. :)
15:24:33 <k4jcw> Like that guy in Florida?  Why is he still alive?
15:24:48 <Quartus> Bodyguards and security systems perhaps :)
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16:50:27 <snowrichard> hi
16:50:36 <Quartus> Hi.
16:51:10 <snowrichard> sorry for the other day
16:53:12 <snowrichard> I was in a bad mood
16:53:26 <Quartus> I'm sorry, I don't recall.  Oh, I think you were talking to Quiznos at that time, not me.
16:53:35 <snowrichard> probably yes
16:53:50 <Quartus> Qu both, causes confusion, but he has declined to be polite enough to change his.
16:54:24 <snowrichard> isn't there a sandwich chain named Quiznos? 
16:54:35 <Quartus> Yes, with which he has absolutely no connection.
16:55:23 <snowrichard> do you do stuff on a Palm?
16:55:34 <Quartus> Yes, Quartus Forth is my product.
16:55:39 <snowrichard> ok I thought so
16:55:44 <snowrichard> I don't have one
16:55:51 <Quartus> Fun gadget.
16:56:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc
16:56:05 <snowrichard> hi chuck
16:56:38 <snowrichard> charles? I have forgotten your name sorry
16:58:02 <snowrichard> I have a friend with a Zaurus sl550 its arm based
16:58:10 <snowrichard> sl5500
16:58:20 <Quiznos> snowrichard the moment passed, i've moved on. you should too
16:58:28 <snowrichard> ok
16:58:30 <crc> good evening
16:58:33 <Quiznos> i dont store grudges
16:58:38 <Quiznos> re crc
16:58:52 <Quiznos> actually, i'm unable to store grudges
17:29:34 <snowrichard> hi crc
17:29:53 <crc> hi snowrichard, Quiznos
17:31:02 <Quiznos> hi crc
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19:10:01 <snowrichard> hi
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