00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.15 01:19:45 --- quit: Quartus__ ("used jmIrc") 01:34:55 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-159-032.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 01:46:42 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:57:17 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:36:40 --- join: astecp (n=aspect@death.dissension.net) joined #forth 02:37:05 morning 02:37:25 factor checks the user's stack effect comments now. i think its one of the few stack-based languages to do so 02:37:59 well if you can code it, it can be done 02:41:16 --- quit: slava () 02:46:01 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 03:55:57 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 04:16:22 Latest update: http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=130 04:17:14 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 04:30:35 wb 05:05:25 I wonder if I should tell about this here: http://evolutation.com/keowiki/ 05:15:49 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool72-40.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:18:51 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 06:35:25 Hi Quartus- I think I've isolated a condition that causes Quartus to reset on my TX... 06:36:45 re 06:37:28 my forth is executing but dumping core on cold, which is the first word to execute upon loading. woot 06:38:02 Quiznos: hehe - I presume that's NOT intentional? ;-) 06:38:44 true, but it's progress! 06:38:49 yep 06:38:54 it means that ``jmp cold'' works 06:38:55 lol 06:39:00 heh 06:39:18 umm, yeah - but what does it see 'cold' as? ;-) 06:40:11 _cold is the address of cfa for cold which would be (:) when i get to write it 06:41:17 is that what the dump is showing, or the prayer? ;-) 06:41:29 it _sounds_ like an indirect-jmp 06:41:31 the corefile 06:41:34 it's not 06:42:03 ahh, I see now.. It's an "asm" label.. NM 06:42:11 yes 06:42:28 I sorta' thought it was pseudocode, for a sec 06:42:34 sorry, no 06:42:57 _code is a label i put under the CODE declaration defining the header for cold 06:43:13 so, this is a direct-threaded vm? 06:43:15 fasm griped about `not defined' when assembling the jmp 06:43:16 no 06:43:19 dtc 06:44:04 no, I meant the forth "engine".. Obviously, it's embedding jmp and whatnot in the cfa fields? 06:44:28 Quartus: actually can't reproduce it on command, but it appears to be after I've used the web app (Blazer?) on the TX... 06:44:48 I only ask, because... It looks like the jmp _should_ be indirect, thru TOS 06:45:05 ok, next == `lodsd, jmp ax' 06:45:24 but i'm considering jmping through [esi] instead and skipping a register use 06:45:34 * PoppaVic hates trying to figure out asm opcodes 06:45:39 i love it 06:45:55 in c, it would be calling a point to a fun 06:45:59 *(fm)() 06:46:01 fn 06:46:02 Quiznos: only skip a step if no one will ever need _access_ to the info in the intermed. reg 06:46:07 right 06:46:16 yea, i'm pondering that point 06:46:44 i might stick with dtc cuz that's what i know 06:47:00 and jmping through [esi] would or might be too different for me 06:47:02 Quiznos: yeah.. Prob - to me - with "asm" is there are far too many variants and cpu opcodes. C simplifies this for me, regardless what the anti-c contingent in ##C say about it. 06:47:38 true, but that "too many" is/was the fault of Intel designers being lasy 06:47:58 plus i'm forthifying certain opcodes to make things easier to do 06:48:05 like the scas string opcodes 06:48:15 and the others 06:48:26 no, I meant of asm(platforms(cpu)) 06:48:36 yea, i understood 06:48:40 oh, and wrap THAT with variant() 06:48:47 k 06:56:53 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 06:57:04 re 06:57:17 ro? 06:57:46 rehi 06:57:49 hehe - I just had a guy gushing thanks and kudos on ol' cgisock/libcgisock ;-) 06:57:59 cool 06:58:28 yeah.. It's nice when the works can be used 06:58:43 yep absotively 07:02:39 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 07:02:51 virl 07:05:16 Quiznos 07:06:03 virl how are thins? 07:06:03 what's new, virl? 07:06:25 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 07:06:35 hiya mad 07:06:55 virl, woot with me: my forth executes and dumps core on the 2nd opcode :) 07:06:58 heh 07:07:35 hmm, which instruction set do you have? 07:07:40 x86 07:07:52 so you have an error? 07:07:57 a p3+ 07:08:01 it's just a coding thing 07:08:11 but it runs :) 07:08:18 ah ok 07:08:19 i like that about linux 07:08:25 i leaves evidence 07:08:27 it 07:18:31 --- quit: Ray_work ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 07:27:09 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:28:45 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-47.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:30:55 Core dumping on the 2nd instruction is "running"? 07:31:03 for me it is ;) 07:31:11 it's progress 07:31:16 Do you know how to use gdb? 07:31:25 yes 07:31:27 k 07:31:33 but gdb doesnt do asm code rightly 07:31:36 I hate gdb. But sometimes it actually works. 07:31:38 no symbols 07:32:14 i need to make my forth self-debugging; gotta add the numeric picture and output words 07:32:15 You should be able to supply symbols. You may need to make some of them public in your asm sources, but gdb most certainly knows about symbols. 07:32:28 nah, i'll just make it self-debg 07:32:41 need to fix up type, dot and emit 07:32:53 Until your core works, that wouldn't seem to help much. 07:32:59 that too 07:33:22 i need to figer out what to do with esi since write() needs an arg in that reg 07:33:48 Probably the buffer address. 07:34:22 no, i know what goes in esi (the a goes to bx) but where to stash the IP in esi 07:34:50 how about on the stack? push esi ? 07:35:20 well, i cant recall at the moment why, but it's not that easy to stack IP 07:35:39 Quiznos: do you know about this? http://modest-proposals.com/Furball.htm 07:35:45 huh. 07:35:46 k 07:35:54 I haven't tried it, but it looks lintriguing... 07:36:05 intriguing 07:36:47 yea, debug.com ported to linux! lol i know it, i have it, thanks for reminding me bahahaha 07:36:56 "Worth learning how to load gdb and run a GPFing program just to get a BackTrace on the stack. For all other linux debugging see 'man printf'." 07:37:01 This is my philosophy. 07:37:20 k4jcw it's my nature to write really tight asm code. it'll just take me a few mins are thinking to get it right 07:37:30 k4jcw [post] heh 07:53:06 that's sorta' a cute url - I only read a para or two 08:14:47 heh.. I love confounding folks ;-) 08:21:51 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:31:32 --- join: ianp (n=irc@littlescroll.com) joined #forth 08:31:39 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-157-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 08:35:04 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 09:59:48 has anyone seen F83 ported to linux? 10:06:58 Quiznos: no. 10:07:04 ok 10:07:07 too much intel 10:07:19 No reason WHY though 10:07:48 what do you mean by "too much intel?" 10:08:54 F83 was z80/intel based - can't recall it - basically, they rewrote the OS and "shell".. NOW, ask "why?" 10:09:25 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:09:45 that makes no sense 10:15:21 --- quit: k4jcw (Remote closed the connection) 10:17:03 --- join: k4jcw (n=jcw@adsl-065-006-151-062.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 10:17:19 Yes, it makes no sense whatsoever. Like many things he says. 10:17:57 yea. afk 10:38:19 Quiznos: isn't Albert van der Horst's ciForth/lina essentially F83? 10:41:30 Quiznos: http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst/ciforth.html 11:33:36 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:36:20 --- quit: Cheery (Remote closed the connection) 11:39:19 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 12:00:12 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 12:25:44 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:25:51 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 12:27:07 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 12:31:19 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 12:31:56 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 12:47:23 --- join: sans (n=sans@ACCF4582.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 12:47:35 hi all 12:57:02 --- quit: sans (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:57:04 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-178-117.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:59:53 vatic [cforth] lemme check 13:00:17 vatic, hi. What's the condition? 13:05:12 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 13:05:17 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 13:11:47 vatic, Horst writes Fig/ISO model Forths, one of which runs on linux. thanks for the reminder. 13:27:25 Quartus: evaluation version (*blush*) seems to crash after I've used the TX web browser for a while... 13:27:39 crashes hard, needs to go thru another reset. 13:27:48 Very odd, vatic. I wonder what the browser is doing. 13:27:53 I have to delete Quartus and resinstall... 13:28:17 Quartus: I tried to run the browser for just a while, but it didn't crash. 13:28:31 All I can imagine is that the browser causes a reorganization of the storage heap -- but that shouldn't cause a crash. 13:28:51 Let me know your email, I can send you an unregistered registered copy of the PRC to try, see if you get the same issue. 13:28:56 Quartus, but I'll keep an eye on it. I think it's when I looking at web pages for an evening while the TV is on in the bedroom. 13:29:52 You may just want to try deleting the Quartus workspace with RsrcEdit, instead of reinstalling. 13:30:17 Quartus: I try that next time... 13:31:51 Quartus: MAF has been really instructive, thanks! :-) 13:32:14 Glad to hear. You might enjoy the RetroForth ANS layer I've been building, too. Same kind of thing but specific to an implementatoin. 13:32:35 If deleting the workspace works, it'd be possible to make a launcher to do that each time, or modify the kernel to do it. 13:32:44 Quartus: I've been watching the iterations. 13:32:47 Quartus Forth startup would take another half-second or so. 13:32:56 Quartus: roger on the launcher 13:36:36 --- join: AI_coder (n=AI@ip-209-124-242-76.dynamic.eatel.net) joined #forth 13:36:56 Quartus: so there's a guy in Finland that done a Forth for the PIC 18f... 13:37:10 I read that. Subroutine-threaded. 13:37:12 Quartus: beat me to it, I guess. 13:37:28 There's probably room for a direct-threaded one in that tiny environment. 13:37:53 Quartus: my thought was to try to move my work under the gforth-ec umbrella... 13:38:12 I was verbally abused by somebody from the gforth-ec umbrella many years ago. 13:38:25 Quartus: really? 13:38:44 Yes, saw I was building Quartus Forth (at the time PilotFORTH) and told me I should join them and together we'd rule the galaxy. 13:38:53 I declined, the individual got quite nasty. 13:39:22 Quartus: I found building from CVS some trouble. But maybe because I started with an OS X build... 13:39:36 Quartus: urgh... 13:39:52 I haven't checked in to see what gforth-ec is, or is up to, for quite awhile. 13:40:16 Quartus: they did a version for the Renesas r8c, which is what led me to the idea... 13:40:38 Quartus: but I wonder if gforth is too heavey duty for the PIC... 13:40:42 heavy 13:41:15 That'd be my initial assumption. 13:41:22 Quartus: the Renesas was a give-away in German Elektor magazine... 13:41:35 Neat. 13:41:55 Quartus: wish US magazine would give away chips... 13:42:03 Different market. 13:42:09 althogh that's pretty much what microChip does... 13:42:12 DIY isn't so prevalent over here. 13:42:24 --- join: nostromo (n=sgala@2002:5121:1fe9:1:230:65ff:fe26:fe5c) joined #forth 13:42:32 Quartus: I don't think I've paid for a microChip product yet. 13:42:45 Good deal :) 13:42:48 True on DIY... 13:43:15 Quartus: actually German friend taught me the joys of "sampling"... ;-) 13:43:33 Eating toothpicked sausages in the supermarket? 13:43:50 Quartus: toothpicked herring! ;-) 13:43:58 Matjes! 13:44:08 Heh. Those are the Europey choices. :) 13:44:42 No Matjes in Guelph? 13:44:55 Could be. Last time I was in Guelph it was 1993. 13:45:30 Quartus: I wass there in June for SoundaXis. Looked like a beef town, mostly... 13:46:03 Probably so. 14:05:35 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth 14:05:49 --- quit: Ray_work (Remote closed the connection) 14:05:56 vatic did you see my reply to you earlier 14:17:01 Quiznos: I did. I'm a little hazy on the FIG <-> F83 relationship, but his work sticks to Derrick & Baker pretty closely... 14:20:13 Quiznos: there's also a version of ciForth written in GAS that Albert has... 14:59:14 Few more mods: http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=131 15:26:40 --- join: I440r (n=foo@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 15:27:10 --- part: I440r left #forth 15:27:14 --- join: I440r (n=foo@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 15:27:33 err the windows version of xchat is a pile of (^$%( 15:27:39 i dont even have a nicknames list lol 15:28:09 brb 15:28:10 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 15:28:49 --- join: I440r (n=foo@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 15:29:21 ok so are there any decent irc clients for windows ? 15:29:25 because im in windows lol 15:29:26 eek 15:29:32 mIRC. 15:29:33 mirc is not decent 15:29:35 hey I440r 15:29:38 Works for me. 15:29:40 hi slava :) 15:29:42 hydrairc is ok 15:29:46 mirc is NAGWARE 15:29:57 and xchat is time limited 15:29:57 * Quartus shrugs 15:30:05 I440r: factor now checks stack effect comments :) 15:30:12 lol 15:30:31 i dont think its the compilers job to babysit what the coder does :P 15:30:42 i found a bunch of typos in my code 15:30:48 misleading comments 15:35:24 yea my code needs some rework, the command line tail stuff doesnt work properly any more for shebanged scripts 15:35:24 grrr 15:35:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 15:39:32 i believe i can save time by having the computer check stuff i'd otherwise have to check myself 15:39:51 You mean, like POSTPONE does. :) (waits for I440r for explode) 15:40:36 i suspect I440r just doesn't want to implement harder stuff :) 15:40:40 heh 15:40:46 That'll blow him up for sure! 15:41:36 postpone is an abomination :P 15:41:47 and im gona ban slava :P lol 15:41:55 You know, I440r, I know you have POSTPONE, but when you're moving between Forth implementations, it's a real advantage. You never know what words might be immediate in a given implementation. 15:42:23 im not a fan of trying to write "portable" code either :) 15:42:25 Depending on implementation choices, LEAVE might be immediate or not; likewise I and R> R> and friends. 15:42:39 For example. 15:42:50 I is an abdomination 15:42:51 so is J 15:43:01 but K is ok ??? :) 15:43:21 in fact i disagree with using immediates for control structures 15:43:23 i is the archetypal loop index variable going back to year 0, so I don't object to it. 15:44:10 slava, so you're a recursion-only kind of control-structure guy? 15:44:17 hi, i like higher order functions 15:44:26 passing code blocks on the stack 15:44:36 brb 15:46:46 Latest update, probably last for a bit: Neal Bridges 15:46:46 http://www.quartus.net Home of Quartus Forth for the Palm OS! 15:46:47 dang 15:46:51 I cannot paste today 15:47:06 http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=132 15:47:07 There :) 15:47:57 This update just reorders the code for readability. 15:54:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +o slava 15:58:46 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-147-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:06:55 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:07:24 damn this machine is fast lol 16:13:30 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 16:23:05 I440r !! 16:23:16 hi q 16:23:22 howzit going 16:23:46 hi virl 16:23:47 vatic [fig/f83] Fig predates F83 by a few years and bridges the 70s and 80s decades. 16:23:53 I440r i'm well, how are you? 16:23:58 tired :) 16:24:10 I440r i'm lookin for a linux port of F83. got hint? 16:24:31 .oO latin mass on EWTN 16:24:43 hmmm that wouldnt be difficult to port but... erm... try isforth :) 16:24:51 heh coward :) 16:24:54 lol 16:25:15 i'm coding my own atm 16:25:25 gonna beat the panties off yours 16:25:26 :)~ 16:25:42 sure sure 16:25:45 why don't you code something for an existing forth instead? 16:25:56 cp isforth qforth <--- look mine is better than yours :) 16:25:57 heh 16:26:00 there are a million forths and no gui toolkits or web frameworks 16:26:02 lol 16:26:24 slava - just as soon as i get the X protocol figured out 16:26:32 slava bc i cant start in the middle; i have ... i MUST reinvent wheels (i changed my mind from yesterday) 16:26:42 :) 16:27:45 forth is all about "my wheel is better than your wheel" :) 16:27:51 pff i wish 16:28:12 in the theme of "name that tune" and "how many notes" 16:28:34 i can code that NEXT in 10 asm opcodes. 16:28:42 can anyone do better? 16:28:54 yes, we can just not use DTC :) 16:28:54 opcode includes its args 16:29:00 no limits 16:29:08 any tc will do 16:29:15 tc-method 16:29:23 STC doesn't have a NEXT, macro 16:29:36 it doesnt matter; how many lines can you do it in? 16:29:40 i can do it in 2 16:29:46 lodsd 16:29:48 jmp eax 16:29:49 done 16:29:51 wow, you dont know how the game do ya? :) 16:29:58 mine does :) 16:30:02 i can do it one line 16:30:21 b (r8),4 16:30:48 segher: do you use PowerMops? 16:30:49 16bit, jmp [si] or 32bit, jmp [esi] 16:30:59 segher: or is that not powerpc? 16:31:07 slava: no... that's this old system 6 forth, isn't it? 16:31:18 well, its old but still being updated 16:31:20 slava: oh maybe 16:31:33 sounds like it would be powerpc, heh 16:31:43 so no one but me kows of a f83 ported to 32bitters? 16:31:45 b (r8),4 isn't powerpc btw 16:31:50 what is it? 16:31:52 i want a f83 on linux 16:31:56 Quiznos: why? 16:32:00 F83 is a fixed 16-bit implementation. 16:32:01 slava: arm 16:32:06 it's what i remember 16:32:06 its 23 years old out of date :) 16:32:08 segher: ah 16:32:09 slava: probably not correct btw heh 16:32:20 dont discriminate against ancient bits 16:32:21 :) 16:32:26 no post-increment on jump insns 16:32:28 are you collecting old forths? 16:32:35 If you build a 32-bit F83, it's not F83 anymore. 16:32:43 i collect ancient and esoteric bits of all varieties 16:32:47 not just forths 16:33:04 ancient, esoteric and uniq 16:33:20 ancient and esoteric bits... mummy parts? 16:33:30 i need to make a gentoo ebuild for isforth :/ 16:33:32 two actually 16:33:34 Quartus prolaby, but it's still in the family. like linux is a unix-family memeber 16:33:44 segher yea :) 16:34:27 So what is it you're looking for, in that case? An F83 that somebody has made 32-bit for Linux, which means pretty much any standard or near-standard Forth for linux? 16:34:45 hopefully and true 16:35:04 So direct-threaded gforth. 16:35:39 i'd like to cross-compile an f83 16:35:45 hmm 16:35:50 hadnt thought of that 16:36:29 Or RetroForth with my ANS layer, if you don't care about the threading method. 16:37:13 i could go that route for boot-strapping 16:37:51 why don't you take retroforth for instance and improve it? 16:38:39 i'd have to fork() it and then fold it into my project which uses a Forth as a foundation 16:39:04 that's why i'm coding a new kernel 16:43:09 If you have a project that needs Forth as a foundation, pick a Forth and get on with it already. 16:43:42 there are no forth applications. every forth programmer codes their own implementation, then loses interest :) 16:43:42 i'm working on several different layers and concepts concurrently. 16:43:58 heh 16:44:05 Oh, so you're turining into PoppaVic. This must be the larval stage. 16:44:18 me or Quiznos ? 16:44:20 both could be true 16:44:20 no no 16:44:22 Not you, slava. :) 16:44:24 no no heh 16:44:45 yeah, concurrently working on several layers and concepts is a typical PoppaVic thing 16:44:48 well, you've got yer 'layers', and yer 'concepts', so you're starting down the road where you never, ever, ever produce any actual code that does anything. 16:44:57 i dint get it from him 16:45:01 next he'll start posting incomprehensible "notes" 16:45:08 no no 16:45:10 heh 16:45:17 and start talking about how he's overwhelmed by all of the autoshit, or something. 16:45:26 I was about to mention autoshit :) 16:45:31 pls, y'all know how i write 16:45:38 i couldnt write that way 16:45:48 go ask ##Linux 16:45:51 autoshit (noun) anything preventing PoppaVic from getting things done 16:45:57 there are a few that know my writing style 16:46:01 Quiznos, if you have something you want to build on top of a Forth, pick one that's already written by somebody who's at least as good at it as you ever will be, and start writing the thing you actually want to build. 16:46:04 slava heh 16:46:04 autoshit (verb) what PoppaVic does when on IRC 16:46:16 slava, heh 16:47:34 Quartus if i choose such a Forth kernel, thenI wont learn how they did; i need to write this kernel from scratch and add to it so that I learn. 16:47:44 you can study the source 16:47:47 just don't study gforth 16:47:53 sometimes that's not enuf slava 16:47:54 isforth is nice and clean, so is retro 16:47:59 k 16:48:16 your only saying taht cuz i gave you ops :P 16:48:26 heh 16:48:41 I440r: no, isforth is like the coolest linux forth now that you have your single stepper 16:48:52 :) 16:49:06 its not perfect tho :( 16:49:09 the debugger i mean 16:49:18 it needs some bugs ironing out 16:49:44 we need integrated help, an editor 16:50:17 thats on the todo list 16:50:20 the help i mean 16:51:27 A slightly newer version, more re-ordering for readability: http://retroforth.net/paste/?id=133 16:55:06 Quiznos: thnx... 16:55:47 vatic for what? 16:58:36 Quiznos: f83 history! 16:58:43 ah. yvw 16:59:06 fig, f79, f83, ansi, isforth. 16:59:08 :) 17:00:33 Hi guys. Poping in for a little break while packing to go. 17:00:48 Hi Raystm2. 17:00:50 re ray 17:00:57 See ya'll in a week if I don't find a live terminal somewhere. 17:01:03 why? 17:01:18 _vaCAtion_ 17:01:26 sweet, where ya goin? 17:01:29 Have fun, Raystm2! 17:01:33 leave the radios at home 17:01:34 home. 17:01:39 cool 17:01:44 thanks Quartus! :) 17:02:07 this will be the first time my fathers 10 childeren have ever been in one place. 17:02:16 children even. 17:02:17 cool 17:02:29 I'll meet two brothers. 17:02:36 They are my kids age. 17:02:41 17 and 15 17:03:05 This trip is 20 years in the makeing for me. 17:03:30 OH and today, I'm a full fledged needle stabing Diabetic. 17:03:52 Raystm2 there are naturopathic cures for that 17:03:53 i gtg zzz 17:03:56 nn 17:03:57 nite ppl 17:04:03 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 17:04:07 They finally tested me for diabeties after my foot wouldn't heal. 17:04:34 and? 17:04:35 and I lost another 15 pounds this last three months while infected. 17:04:42 Raystm2 you need to do a liver cleanse 17:04:45 i'm just 136 now. 17:04:57 * Raystm2 wants to go to China for the cure. 17:05:02 you dont need to 17:05:22 I know I don't need to, but I loved China the last time... 17:05:29 you know what i mean 17:05:40 Culture shock happened when I returned. 17:05:50 Those people really know how to live light. 17:05:51 besides, with google.cn, you might not find naturopathic info 17:05:52 :) 17:06:00