00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.07
03:33:03 --- join: Astrobe (n=astrobe@c-real.rouen-wireless.net) joined #forth
04:15:39 --- quit: Astrobe ("Leaving")
04:22:49 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-125.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
05:49:27 --- join: vatic (n=chatzill@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth
06:03:01 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@199.227.227.26) joined #forth
06:25:50 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm
06:29:46 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...")
07:32:12 --- quit: vatic ("*poof*")
07:33:50 --- join: vatic (n=cturner@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth
10:32:11 --- part: saon left #forth
10:37:31 --- join: saon (i=1000@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth
11:37:45 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool67-43.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
11:43:10 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.153.204.1) joined #forth
12:00:38 --- join: futhin (n=wunderwa@bespin.org) joined #forth
12:01:19 --- part: futhin left #forth
12:22:54 <Quartus__> hey.
12:26:08 <Quiznos> hey
12:27:09 <PoppaVic> hay?
12:27:53 <Quiznos> straw
12:28:45 <PoppaVic> And... sew?
12:32:00 <juri_> i can sew. i've made quilttops before. ;)
12:32:54 <Quiznos> umm <gender alert> ;)
12:35:06 --- nick: Quiznos -> PurpleSmurf
12:36:34 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth
12:42:12 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-139-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
12:42:43 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.)
12:43:14 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42
12:46:54 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
12:51:35 --- join: PoppaVic1 (n=pete@0-1pool73-171.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
12:52:45 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.)
12:52:48 --- nick: PoppaVic1 -> PoppaVic
13:17:58 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...")
13:21:58 <juri_> i've got a good stitch. ;)
13:23:20 <PurpleSmurf> get a [lw]ife
13:23:35 <juri_> why? i'd rather have a husband. ;P
13:23:43 <PurpleSmurf> ah hah!
13:23:46 <PurpleSmurf> i knew it
13:24:31 <PurpleSmurf> why? bc it dont ryhme
14:30:45 --- nick: PurpleSmurf -> Quiznos
14:32:38 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:32:50 --- join: Raystm2 (n=NanRay@adsl-69-149-58-109.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
14:59:09 <Quiznos> i need sample code for the word meta or a new paradig-m
14:59:16 <Quiznos> for meta-compiling
15:05:58 --- quit: Ray_work ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
15:09:16 <Quiznos> Beuller? Beuller? Beuller? 
15:10:01 <Quartus> If you really want to discuss something, why not try doing it in a way that doesn't make it seem like you've been huffing glue?
15:10:22 <Quiznos> then you shoulda writ that minutes ago :)
15:10:52 <Quartus> I might have answered if you hadn't typed "paradig-m".  The annoyance factor went right over the top.
15:10:58 <Quiznos> by example, i understand how the smallc compiler compiles itself.  
15:11:09 <Quiznos> lol; get thicker skin :)
15:11:14 <Quartus> Be less of a doofus.
15:11:29 <Quiznos> quartus why are you squelching my mellow?
15:11:32 <Quiznos> lol
15:11:47 <Quiznos> lighten up a wee bit.
15:11:48 <Quiznos> ok so
15:12:19 <Quiznos> i'm trying to understand why meta on forth is not as straight forward as the smallc compiling itself
15:13:39 <Quiznos> doe meta-compiling have to be so complicated?
15:13:41 <Quiznos> does
15:15:31 <Quiznos> quartus
15:16:09 <Quiznos> be less joyless.
15:19:39 --- join: bronze (n=Lester@c-24-91-157-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth
15:19:48 --- part: bronze left #forth
15:35:47 <k4jcw> Quartus,  what's your opinion on the necessity/usefulness of catch/throw?  To wit, should I bother implementing it?
15:45:16 <Quartus> I think so.  Very handy thing to have.
15:45:26 <Quartus> Did you make any headway on wordlisting your dictionary?
15:45:29 <k4jcw> Looks pretty trivial to implement.
15:45:39 <k4jcw> No.  I've been distracted by other shiny objects.
15:45:46 <k4jcw> But it's my too-due list.
15:45:56 <Quartus> Catch/throw is quite easy to implement, makes non-local error returns possible and easy.
15:47:58 <k4jcw> I was prettying up some code, adding comments, and added 'unloop'.  I think I added a few other words, also.  
15:48:08 <k4jcw> The dictionary stuff should be straight forward, just requires Getting Started.
15:48:38 <k4jcw> I also need to think about how to implement case/of/endof/endcase.
15:50:20 <Quartus> If you're using typical control-flow constructs, you can build CASE on top of those.  I believe there's an implementation in the appendix of the Standard.
15:55:06 <Quartus> http://quartus.net/dpans/dpansa3.htm#A.3.2.3.2    It's down a bit.
15:57:48 <k4jcw> cool
15:58:29 <Quartus> A recurring theme, building higher-level constructs from lower-level, like named modules over wordlists.
16:00:13 <k4jcw> indeed
16:00:52 <k4jcw> But not half as much fun as implementing them natively. 
16:02:20 <Quartus> Depends on what you consider fun.  Building the high-level first means you have to build the lower-level components in parallel, or sometimes in conflict, with what you've already done.  I think building upwards is quite elegant.
16:07:07 <Quiznos> k4jcw i'd rather contemplate advancing forth by simplifying and adding certain higher level concepts.
16:07:16 <Quiznos> which is where i'm heading.
16:18:24 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@CPE00119576a9c5-CM0012c90d36fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
16:22:10 <Quartus> k4jcw, there's an outline of a catch/throw implementation in that appendix too.
16:34:28 <k4jcw> Building upwards is good.  
16:34:40 <Quiznos> yea, definately
16:35:24 <k4jcw> And yes, while it *is* written in C, the code-close-to-the-metal guy in me says "write them in C, not Forth.  They'll be faster"
16:35:35 <Quiznos> pff
16:35:36 <Quiznos> :)
16:35:54 <Quiznos> write in c to prototype then rewrite it in forth to be fast
16:36:28 <k4jcw> Only if your inner is very very fast.
16:36:57 <Quiznos> it doesnt need to be that fast to be competitive with c
16:37:00 <Quiznos> c-code
16:37:20 <Quiznos> but an x86.inner is only two "lines" 
16:37:35 <Quiznos> and i've seen inners lately that are one line
16:37:49 <Quiznos> i'm still processing that particular next
16:38:39 <Quartus> k4jcw, CASE and friends operate at compile-time, and they do so little they won't be slow.
16:38:49 <k4jcw> That's true.
16:39:12 <Quartus> Compiliation speed increases come mostly from improving your dictionary search.
16:39:21 <Quartus> With a hashtable, for instance.
16:39:46 <k4jcw> Luckily, however, compilation speed is of little concern.  This app could take 5 seconds to spool up, and no one (except me) would care.
16:39:55 <Quiznos> of cours
16:40:04 <Quartus> Then you'll be in good shape with CASE implemented as source.
16:40:12 <Quiznos> especially on triple digit mhz boxen
16:40:38 <Quiznos> for me, IMO, the speed issew died when cpu's hit 50nhz
16:40:48 <k4jcw> I did think about using hashes for the dictionary.  But then I said to myself, "Self, why not just use stricmp and a linked list?  We can always replace it later if it's an issue."
16:40:57 <Quiznos> lol
16:40:59 <Quiznos> "self"
16:41:07 <Quartus> Sure, and if you don't care about compilation speed presently, that's fine.
16:41:26 <Quiznos> i prefer to forthify the asm string opcodes
16:42:33 <Quiznos> do you code on the x86?
16:43:19 <k4jcw> I have.  Quite a bit of "regular" x86, and a fair amount of protected mode.
16:43:21 <k4jcw> But not lately.
16:43:48 <Quiznos> did you learn that the decimal and ascii adjust opcodes take a radix argument?
16:44:07 <k4jcw> Don't remember that.
16:44:10 <Quiznos> k
16:45:03 <k4jcw>    ADD AL,090h
16:45:03 <k4jcw> > >    DAA
16:45:03 <k4jcw> > >    ADC AL,040h
16:45:03 <k4jcw> > >    DAA
16:45:03 <k4jcw> > >    RET
16:45:06 <Quiznos> what i like about forth is that most, if not all, of a cpu's opcodes translate well into a forth-front end
16:45:07 <k4jcw> whassat do? :)
16:45:44 <Quiznos> when you look in the intel pages, they indicate that the arg is not a static const
16:45:58 <k4jcw> what arguments?
16:46:00 <Quiznos> it's programming by default to be radix 10
16:46:03 <Quiznos> d4 0a
16:46:05 <Quiznos> d5 0a
16:46:07 <Quiznos> iinm
16:46:16 <Quiznos> the 0a can be replaced with any byte value 
16:46:21 <k4jcw> interesting.
16:46:36 <Quiznos> and the opcode will split the byte into proper byte-reg nibbles
16:46:49 <Quiznos> so, d4 0f will split the byte evenly
16:47:03 <Quiznos> and d5 0f will combine two hex nibbles
16:47:15 <Quiznos> again, iinm about the d4/d5 
16:47:29 <k4jcw> iinm?
16:47:43 <k4jcw> If I Need Money?
16:47:44 <Quiznos> if you have a printed copy of Intel's opcode table, even back to the 8088, you'll see what i mean
16:47:46 <Quiznos> lol
16:47:50 <Quiznos> if i'm not mistaken
16:47:54 <k4jcw> oh
16:47:59 <k4jcw> I like mine better.
16:48:06 <Quiznos> i use ancient opcode tables
16:48:48 <Quiznos> it's easy to see 0-arg opcodes and forthify them
16:49:22 <k4jcw> I used to know opcodes for the 6502 and 6800 in my head, and knew how the breakdown of them worked.  When I was coding x86 and up, I didn't care as much.  OTOH, it may be because I wrote several disassemblers and tools for the 6502 and 6800 that I never did for the 8088.
16:49:41 <k4jcw> Mostly I used to remember NOP and INT3 for debugging.
16:50:05 <Quiznos> k4jcw yea, i did the same on the '02
16:50:09 <Quiznos> yea
16:50:39 <Quiznos> ddt was da bomb
16:51:02 <Quiznos> oh and debug.com has been ported to linuix
16:51:03 <Quiznos> linux
16:51:07 <k4jcw> I used to really enjoy writing multi-thousand line programs in assembly.  Now I am older and lazier, and generally stick to C.
16:51:09 <k4jcw> !
16:51:12 <k4jcw> Really?  Cool!
16:51:13 <Quiznos> yea
16:51:16 <Quiznos> yep it has
16:51:38 <Quiznos> i used to have greenbar prints and disassemble them manually
16:51:53 <k4jcw> I've also given up messing with 8051s, which used to be my bread and butter, and moved to processors that are more C friendly.  Like AVRs and MSP430s.
16:52:04 <k4jcw> Although I still like to mess around with 1802s.
16:52:16 <Quiznos> i'd like to play with a 9900
16:52:28 <Quiznos> but i havent seen a TI boxlette in decades
16:52:40 <Quiznos> or a 990000 even
16:52:44 <Quiznos> that made me drool
16:52:49 <k4jcw> That's one of the few processors I've not messed with.  I had a '99 for a while, but it didn't interest me a lot.
16:52:52 <Quartus> k4jcw, in terms of 'close-to-the-metal', your Forth runs about 50 times slower than hand-coded assembly, so I wouldn't worry too much about optimizing CASE. :)
16:52:52 <Quiznos> and the 32k cpu's
16:53:00 <Quiznos> and the 88k's from Motoro.
16:53:05 <k4jcw> I think because by that time I was used to having systems with disks on them.
16:53:22 <k4jcw> I've used 32Ks.  Nothing on 88ks, tho.
16:53:23 <Quiznos> i collect ports of smallc also
16:53:40 <Quiznos> 88k was big in unix boxen in the 80s
17:02:07 <Quiznos> i cant find the 9900 smallc code generator tho; i know it was printed in ddj but Google hasnt seen it
17:03:25 <virl> 50 times slower? so much, puh.. well I assumed 10 times, but 50 times... man..
17:03:35 <virl> how about C how much is that slower?
17:05:45 <Quartus> C runs anywhere from 1x to perhaps 2x of assembler.
17:06:27 <Quartus> Optimizing native-code Forths run at the same speed as C.  Gforth runs at about 10x of C.
17:06:30 <k4jcw> That depends exceedingly much on the arch and compiler.
17:06:39 <virl> 50 times, Forth, ehm.. 
17:06:40 <Quartus> Sure does.  Can get worse than that.
17:07:12 <Quartus> k4jcw's Forth benches out at 4.5x of Gforth, so on my chart with assembler at 1, Gforth at 11, that puts his system at 49x.
17:07:14 <k4jcw> I'd say most non-gcc compilers on non-x86 platforms (and maybe ppc) run closer to 4x.
17:08:06 <Quartus> k4jcw, maybe so.  I'm looking at best-case.
17:08:53 <k4jcw> When you say native-code, are you also thinking direct threaded?
17:09:54 <Quartus> No. Native-code, machine instructions all the way.
17:10:36 <Quartus> All other Forth implementation methods are slower than optimized native-code.
17:27:05 <Quartus> virl, in general terms 10x or better is the right number. k4jcw's particular implementation is slower.
17:30:57 <virl> well.. but for non interactive forth it should be possible to get speedups like gcc
17:32:53 <Quartus> Interactivity isn't a factor in the speedup, but yes, that's what I said above -- optimizing native-code Forths run at the same speed as C.
17:48:59 <Quiznos> wow Imsai is STILL building z80/cpm boxes!!!
17:49:19 <Quiznos> as of july '05!!!
17:53:08 <k4jcw> They're on a lot of peoples shit list right now.
17:54:46 <Quiznos> whois? imsai?
17:54:55 <Quiznos> why?
17:59:59 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-70-241-19-241.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
18:04:31 <virl> z80 cpm boxes?
18:04:44 <Quiznos> yep
18:05:20 <virl> how do they look like?
18:06:11 <Quiznos> duno
18:07:14 <virl> z80, hmm wasn't that the cpu which has a similiar arch like the intels?
18:07:34 <Quiznos> no
18:07:46 <Quiznos> z==Zilog
18:07:46 <virl> oh?
18:07:54 <Quiznos> i dont think there's a resemblance
18:07:59 <virl> yeah, I know for what the Z stands
18:08:02 <Quiznos> k
18:08:40 <k4jcw> Apparently they've had problems delivering product.  After the money has been handed over.
18:09:00 <Quiznos> k4jcw ah!  that's important
18:09:17 <Amanita_Virosa> the z80 bears a resemblance to the old 8080
18:09:20 <k4jcw> And I think the CPU board for that IMSAI actually uses a Z180 or Z280, IIRC.
18:09:22 <Amanita_Virosa> which was an intel chip
18:09:30 <k4jcw> The z80 is an op-code compatible superset of the 8080.
18:09:42 <k4jcw> The Zilog mnemonics are way different.
18:09:50 <Quiznos> k4jcw yea, source compat
18:10:09 <Quiznos> extended is a better word; like the x86 family is extended
18:10:14 <virl> how they are written, well it's the same operation.
18:10:20 <k4jcw> Zilog had to use different mnemonics because of copyright BS
18:10:43 <Quiznos> i dont recall that rao
18:10:44 <Amanita_Virosa> the twisted part is that there's still life in that ancient architecture hehe
18:10:49 <Quiznos> that's true
18:11:03 <virl> well, it's so stupid.
18:11:23 <k4jcw> http://tinymicros.com/embedded/Z80/index.html
18:11:31 <k4jcw> It is not stupid.  That's speaking from ignorance.
18:11:48 <Quiznos> the z80 style cpu's are still being developed
18:11:50 <virl> one reason why there isn't a portable assembler..
18:11:59 <Quiznos> i'd love to have a z8000 family box
18:12:10 <k4jcw> Yea, Z8000's are a little harder to find.
18:12:12 <Quiznos> virl well, there is C
18:12:17 <Quiznos> k4jcw i know!
18:12:21 <Quiznos> and 88k too
18:12:30 <Quiznos> and a 32k too
18:12:30 <virl> Quiznos, thanks, I know.
18:12:33 <Quiznos> heh
18:12:37 <virl> and forth also btw.
18:12:43 <Quiznos> yep
18:12:45 <k4jcw> Actually, there are lots of languages.
18:12:50 <Quiznos> tiny basic
18:12:54 <k4jcw> Forth, COBOL, BASIC, PL/I, PL/M, etc, etc, etc.
18:13:01 <Quiznos> yep
18:13:05 <virl> hmm cobol..
18:13:15 <k4jcw> By Microsoft, no less.
18:13:22 <k4jcw> And I think someone else had one, though I don't remember the name.
18:13:32 <virl> did anybody wrote an OS in cobol?
18:13:33 <k4jcw> There's also MUMPS, if you're into medical software.
18:13:42 <Quiznos> heh
18:13:59 <k4jcw> Not to mention Pascal.  
18:14:08 <Quiznos> turbo
18:14:14 <Quiznos> modula2 also
18:14:17 <k4jcw> Yah
18:14:31 <k4jcw> Was there Turbo Pascal for the Z80?  I thought the Turbo was a PC product only.
18:14:34 <virl> who uses C as the basement for a forth besides me?
18:14:39 <k4jcw> (I was never much into Pascal)
18:14:42 <Quiznos> borland did write one
18:14:42 <k4jcw> gforth does.
18:14:50 <Quiznos> there were several pascals
18:15:09 <virl> yeah, gforth. bah but gforth is ugh..
18:15:18 <Amanita_Virosa> i've done a bunch of forth-like-languages with a C core
18:15:18 <Quiznos> heh
18:15:26 <Amanita_Virosa> tho some of them weren't traditional FORTHs at all
18:15:32 <Amanita_Virosa> the strangest is probably the script language in my assembler
18:15:56 <Amanita_Virosa> for real FORTH tho, nothing really beats doing it all in assembler.
18:16:05 <k4jcw> There was also a moderately nice multi-user OS for the Z80, MP/M-II
18:16:16 <Quiznos> gaby.de for all your cp/m drooling
18:16:57 <k4jcw> Oooh, I forgot about that site.  I stumbled across it a ways back and never bookmarked it.
18:19:32 <k4jcw> I have an IMSAI that's up for sale.  8Mhz Z80, 64K SRAM, 256K Lightning Disk, 4 port serial card, Tarbell DSDD controller, GPIO card, 2 1.2MB 8" Qume Datatrak-8 drives, and almost pristine 22 slot IMSAI chassis w/ front panel.
18:19:49 <k4jcw> And a metric butt-load of floppies.
18:21:46 <k4jcw> I dunno if any of you remember the Cromemco Dazzler, but it's considered to be one of the first graphics cards.  128 x 128 resolution, 8 colors per pixel, with *2* intensities.  I sold it for $306 a few weeks ago on eBay.
18:21:49 <virl> Amanita_Virosa, hah, doing the system in plain machine code... THATS a REAL FORTH
18:23:31 <k4jcw> I bet you're cheating, and using opcodes.
18:23:34 <Amanita_Virosa> hehe
18:23:36 <k4jcw> Be a man, type it in hex.
18:23:42 <Quiznos> heh
18:23:44 <Amanita_Virosa> pure machine code heh
18:23:59 <Amanita_Virosa> well, i'm a woman, so that doesn't apply :P
18:24:05 <Amanita_Virosa> but sure, i used opcodes
18:24:06 <Quiznos> be a *man
18:24:08 <Quiznos> heh
18:24:09 <Amanita_Virosa> i did, however, write my own assembler.
18:24:14 <k4jcw> And I bet you're letting an *assembler* calculate all your addresses and offsets, too, aren't you?
18:24:39 <k4jcw> Why, in the old days...
18:25:02 <k4jcw> Is your "real name" some spider species, Amanita_Virosa?
18:25:15 <Amanita_Virosa> hehe
18:25:22 <Amanita_Virosa> not exactly.
18:25:33 <k4jcw> Arachnomycus Lectoleti
18:25:40 <Amanita_Virosa> it translates to something akin to "spider-mushroom of the alluring death"
18:25:41 <Quiznos> mycosis
18:25:48 <Quiznos> lol
18:26:04 <k4jcw> Hmm.  Google has no hits.
18:26:07 <Amanita_Virosa> it wouldn't.
18:26:08 <virl> be a REAL man and code everything without testing in a hexeditor on an old c64 system!
18:26:21 <k4jcw> Arachnomycus  - did not match any documents. 
18:26:27 <Quiznos> mycosis
18:26:38 <Amanita_Virosa> it's a very long story.
18:26:39 <Quiznos> mycotisis
18:26:43 <Amanita_Virosa> and not especially interesting
18:26:54 <k4jcw> heh
18:27:04 <k4jcw> Honesty on the internet, imagine that.
18:27:11 <Quiznos> i'm honest
18:27:44 <k4jcw> How do we test that?
18:28:07 <Quiznos> you hafta watch the words
18:28:11 <Quiznos> thats all you get to go by 
18:28:38 <k4jcw> "Send me $1M to help me transfer the funds left by great Uncle, the deposed but elected leader of a small African nation"
18:29:42 <Amanita_Virosa> heh
18:30:04 <virl> I'd like a forth cpu
18:30:16 <virl> bah a forth computer would be cool.
18:30:25 <k4jcw> yah
18:30:29 <virl> video, sound, ports and so on.
18:30:43 <Quiznos> k4 [1m] lol
18:31:16 <virl> when does intellasys sell it's cpus?
18:31:45 <k4jcw> I think I ran across a VHDL design somewhere that was a Forth CPU with peripherials.  I wonder if I can find that again...
18:31:58 <k4jcw> Too bad "Forth" isn't a good search word.  
18:32:01 <Quiznos> chuck made chips
18:32:09 <Quiznos> and some fla. company
18:32:24 <Amanita_Virosa> i've done a couple forth chips in verilog
18:32:27 <Amanita_Virosa> no hardware per se tho
18:32:31 <Amanita_Virosa> sims and fpgas
18:32:32 --- quit: Quartus__ ("used jmIrc")
18:32:42 <Amanita_Virosa> and started building one out of ttl 
18:32:42 <Quiznos> rc400?
18:32:43 <k4jcw> How many chips can a Chuck chipper chuck if a Chuck chipper could chuck chips?
18:32:44 <Quiznos> r400?
18:32:52 <Quiznos> k4jcw several
18:33:04 <Quiznos> he's not satisfued afaik
18:33:15 <k4jcw> Amanita_Virosa,  are those designs open source or published?
18:34:08 <k4jcw> In the mean time, to it's time to make tasty lemon bars.
18:34:20 <Amanita_Virosa> naw, i never published them
18:34:23 <Amanita_Virosa> i don't open a lot of code
18:45:41 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Food time!")
19:08:22 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection)
19:08:26 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-237-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
19:10:01 <Quartus> amanita virosa shows up in google.  It's a poisonous fungus.
19:11:50 <Raystm2> That was worth Monday.
19:12:02 <Quartus> hmm?
19:12:09 <Raystm2> I always wanted to know but really was afraid to ask. :)
19:12:45 <Raystm2> I was afraid it was a pr()n star name.
19:14:38 <Raystm2> still I like the name, and I think it's pretty.
19:15:07 <Raystm2> Puts me in mind of something with a sweet and a bitter side.
19:15:18 <nighty_> got racoons out my window
19:15:37 <Raystm2> good job getting them out. Mine won't leave :(
19:15:41 <Raystm2> :)
19:15:53 <nighty_> lol :)
19:15:59 <nighty_> It got inside my appartement
19:16:12 <nighty_> I took one out by the back 
19:16:17 <nighty_> and threw it out
19:16:23 <nighty_> same for the other one
19:16:27 <Raystm2> NO! yikes, did it turn over the trash and wash your left over meatloaf in the toilet?
19:16:52 <nighty_> no it did not have time to do anything
19:16:57 <Raystm2> oh.,
19:17:21 <Raystm2> I would get into the warehouse at work and find the "evidence".
19:18:06 <Raystm2> I got to where I was telling everybody to take all food trash all the way to the dumpster, till the racoon got the message.
19:18:13 <Quartus> Raystm2, wikipedia says those particular mushrooms are tasty, but lethal.
19:18:21 <nighty_> it got in because I had left a plank going outside of my window
19:18:47 <Raystm2> nighty_ :)
19:19:03 <Raystm2> Quartus: thanks -- that had to be.
19:19:05 <nighty_> hey I'm learning :)
19:19:25 <nighty_> Quartus: hi:)
19:19:32 <Quartus> Hi nighty_.
19:19:54 <nighty_> racoon can run pretty fast
19:20:03 <Quartus> They can. 
19:20:03 <nighty_> i found out 
19:20:31 <nighty_> I cornered it with a broom
19:20:42 <Quartus> They can bite, too.
19:20:53 <nighty_> then I put the handle of the broom on its neck and took it like a cat
19:21:22 <nighty_> it's got chips
19:21:32 <nighty_> I had to go buy some chip killer
19:21:39 <Quartus> fleas?
19:21:44 <nighty_> fleas
19:21:48 <nighty_> yes
19:21:50 <nighty_> :)
19:21:51 <nighty_> sorry 
19:21:55 <nighty_> lol:)
19:22:16 <nighty_> it is not a robotic racoon 
19:22:19 <nighty_> no :)
19:22:35 <nighty_> robot
19:22:56 <nighty_> now they are outside munching some stuff in the grass
19:23:08 <nighty_> they make lots of noise
19:23:23 <Quartus> They like garbage.
19:23:25 <nighty_> just about 3 meters from my windows
19:23:51 <nighty_> they are friendly racoons :)
19:23:54 <nighty_> not scared
19:24:20 <Quartus> I like them. They're trouble if they get into your walls or attic.
19:24:23 <nighty_> maybe next time I'll find a moose in my home :)
19:25:34 <nighty_> they are fat
19:25:54 <nighty_> one of them can barely walk 
19:25:58 <Quartus> The largest raccoon I ever saw was on Yonge street quite late one night.
19:26:19 <Quartus> He was about 30 inches across, trying to lift a manhole cover.
19:26:49 <Quartus> To his credit, he was shifting it.
19:26:57 <nighty_> lol
19:27:15 <nighty_> he knew forth :)
19:27:20 <nighty_> push
19:27:22 <nighty_> push
19:27:33 <Quartus> You could hear it moving.  He grunted a lot.
19:28:46 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection)
19:29:19 <Quartus> Heh, maybe.
19:31:52 <k4jcw> Lemon bars are in the oven.
19:32:01 <k4jcw> The best part about baking is giving it away, so you don't get fat.
19:32:51 <Quartus> Not everybody gets fat. Read something recently about resistance to a particular protein that plays a role.
19:33:09 <k4jcw> Well, I'm not one of them.
19:33:43 <Quartus> They've bred mice to have an absence of this particular protein, and those mice don't get fat, or diabetic.
19:34:14 <k4jcw> Time for a little genineering on /me
19:34:30 <k4jcw> gengineering, rather.
19:35:00 <Quartus> http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/15/177225
19:37:03 <k4jcw> Interesting.
19:43:08 <Quartus> Thus far I'm pretty much unable to get fat. I can add muscle, but not fat.  I'd guess from that article that I interact with that protein differently.
19:50:33 --- quit: vatic (Remote closed the connection)
19:51:11 <Quartus> I'm keeping watch, though, maybe one birthday I'll suddenly double in size. :)
19:52:35 <k4jcw> heh
19:57:19 <k4jcw> http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/08/07/terrorism.technology.ap/index.html   Sounds like BS to me.
19:57:41 <k4jcw> "...that can detect explosives by recognizing the electromagnetic waves given off by objects..."
20:19:02 <ayrnieu> why?  That's how /I/ detect explosives.  Usally the eletromagnetic waves emanating from them spell out "DANGER EXPLOSIVES" or some such.
20:31:08 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
20:46:03 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
20:53:24 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving")
21:02:38 <Quartus> Is there any new werty?
21:03:10 <Quartus> hmm, nothing today.
21:04:59 <ayrnieu> only the R model.
21:06:56 <Quartus> How's that?
21:08:52 <ayrnieu> the rwerty layout, I mean.
21:09:00 <Quartus> Qwerty?
21:09:12 <Quartus> I guess that's where he takes his nickname from.  
21:09:29 <ayrnieu> no, 'qwerty' is the previous model.
21:09:44 <nighty_> Nielson Chocolate is addictive
21:09:47 <Quartus> I hope he's one of a kind.  The loon on c.l.f that is.
21:10:32 <nighty_> omg I finished the 2L bottle
21:10:38 <nighty_> *gasp*
21:10:44 <Quartus> Chocolate milk?
21:10:48 <nighty_> yes
21:10:52 <Quartus> 2%?
21:10:57 <nighty_> 1%
21:11:03 <Quartus> Ah, then that's ok. :)
21:11:11 <Quartus> Still 15:00 tomorrow?
21:11:13 <nighty_> lol
21:11:18 <nighty_> Oh yes :)
21:11:24 <Quartus> Ok.
21:11:33 <nighty_> you can't escape from me that easily :)
21:11:44 <Quartus> Looking forward to seeing what you're up to over there.
21:12:06 <nighty_> this is not NASA :)
21:12:15 <nighty_> but it is fun :)
21:12:22 <Quartus> Sounds like it!
21:12:29 <nighty_> I am fighting with my GUI :)
21:13:37 <nighty_> I am writing in Ruby , might not be the best choice
21:14:07 <nighty_> for an embedded board (well it is only a soekris so far so :))
21:14:21 <Quartus> Embedded ruby? New one for me. :)
21:14:42 <nighty_> Yes :)
21:14:46 <nighty_> for me too :)
21:15:21 <nighty_> nowdays you can embbed just about anything 
21:15:28 <nighty_> there is so much memory avail
21:15:34 <Quartus> True.
21:15:52 <nighty_> I would not embbed MYSQL though :)
21:16:04 <nighty_> flash would not like it :)
21:16:22 <Quartus> Heh. Well, I suppose battery life suggests that more efficient code works better embedded.
21:16:34 <nighty_> yes :)
21:16:46 <nighty_> but this is just for a WEB GUI
21:16:53 <nighty_> because lusers need it 
21:17:03 <nighty_> dixit :"Da Salez Dept"
21:17:20 <Quartus> I remember discussing Palm Java with a developer.  It simply takes more battery power to achieve the same result with Java.
21:17:31 <nighty_> I hate Java
21:18:01 <Quartus> I'm no fan of it myself.  But you see what I mean, 50 instructions take more battery power than 1.
21:18:08 <nighty_> yes
21:18:27 <nighty_> that's why I am thinking about forth :)
21:18:32 <nighty_> for the RFID tags
21:18:50 <Quartus> His argument was that it didn't matter anymore what language you used, because of greater horsepower; my counterargument was about battery life.  He believed battery life was about to have a breakthrough.
21:18:52 <Quartus> That was in 1997
21:19:12 <nighty_> well we are still waiting
21:19:13 <nighty_> :)
21:19:25 <Quartus> I told him that even if they got the battery down small enough, you've still got heat dissipation to deal with.  Your Palm would have to have a huge heat-sink on it. :)
21:19:33 <nighty_> I did not see any breath taking breakthru so far
21:20:31 <Quartus> Indeed.  So slower CPUs that need less power require greater efficiency in programming.
21:20:31 <nighty_> actually do they still manufacture those FORTH chips ? 
21:21:00 <Quartus> Last I heard of anything approaching a Forth chip, it was the Patriot Semiconductor one, but they were trying to spin that as a Java chip.
21:21:14 <nighty_> lol
21:21:24 <nighty_> nice try 
21:21:45 <Quartus> Well, the instruction set had considerable overlap with the java bytecode instruction set.
21:22:07 <Quartus> I couldn't determine if they were anything more than a marketing engine.  I don't know anyone who's played with the actual chip.
21:24:33 <Quartus> Now I must go out and buy chocolate milk; looking forward to tomorrow!
21:26:39 <Raystm2> What is tomorrow?
21:27:12 <ayrnieu> now 1 days +
21:28:04 <ayrnieu> should probably zero the less significant bits
21:29:58 <Raystm2> ah okay, in c today++
21:30:07 <Raystm2> in retroforth +today
21:30:23 <Raystm2> no wait that's 1 +today
21:30:39 <Raystm2> stack error there for a minute.
21:46:46 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection)
21:48:18 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-183-96.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth
21:48:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc
22:33:23 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke")
23:23:42 --- quit: segher (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:25:09 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-160-166.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.08.07