00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.06
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03:01:09 <Quiznos> b00
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07:15:13 <jcw> Interesting.  The Palm pages only talk about up to 5.1 (Garnet), yet I see SCX runs on 6.1 (Cobalt).
08:08:22 <Quiznos> b00!
08:08:35 <PoppaVic> hmm?
08:08:54 <Quiznos> morning
08:09:10 <PoppaVic> still, soon noon.
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11:04:26 <Quiznos> wb
11:07:22 <saon> thanks =)
11:50:04 <Quartus> k4jcw, there is/was a Cobalt (6.1).  No production devices run it to my knowledge, but it is available in Simulator form.
11:55:49 <vatic> Hi Quartus! Do you use the new Windows-based tools from Palm to develop Quartus?
11:58:13 <Quartus> I don't.  I have my own toolchain.
11:59:21 <Quartus> It's a Forth target compiler built around an assembler.
12:01:18 <vatic> Quartus: I should have figured given how long you've been working on Quartus...
12:01:53 <Quartus> Yes, right back to its PilotFORTH days.
12:02:53 <vatic> Quartus: I spent a few days at the beginning of the Summer trying to revive the Dragonforth code, and one thing that stopped me was the situation with Palm Dev Tools...
12:02:55 <Quiznos> quartus, how do you handle inline "" strings w.r.t. the stack?
12:06:25 <Quartus> What do you mean?
12:07:27 <Quiznos> supposing a in-word quoted string is within a : def, what does your forth do with the string content? 
12:07:56 <Quartus> Like : foo s" Hello" ; ?  It puts the string in dataspace and compiles a reference.
12:08:38 <Quiznos> so, inlined within the :-def and reference == pointer?
12:09:25 <Quartus> No, codespace and dataspace are separate.  It puts the string content in dataspace, and compiles two literals into the definition -- the address of the string content in dataspace, and the length of the string.
12:09:34 <Quiznos> ok
12:10:14 <Quiznos> what if the user were interactive with kernel and did s" xhgjd" 1 3 midstr$
12:10:23 <Quiznos> pretend you have midstr$ 
12:10:34 <Quiznos> or substr$
12:10:44 <Quartus> There's a state-smart version of S" in file.txt that writes to a temporary buffer.
12:10:51 <Quiznos> k.
12:11:02 <Quiznos> does your forth do heap memory?
12:11:13 <Quartus> Via the Palm OS memory routines.
12:11:17 <Quiznos> k
12:11:30 <Quiznos> ty
12:14:20 <Quiznos> http://snippets.org
12:14:52 <Quiznos> maybe we should encourage the archivist to also provide forth code snippets
12:15:12 <ayrnieu> hm, there's a better site for such things.
12:15:18 <Quiznos> where?
12:15:20 <Quiznos> who?
12:15:22 <ayrnieu> http://www.bigbold.com/snippets/
12:15:26 <Quiznos> i know Skip's
12:15:30 <Quiznos> that's new. ty
12:17:35 <Quiznos> no "forth" on main page
12:17:54 <Quartus> Is there a search for that site that I'm missing?
12:18:02 <ayrnieu> yes; nobody has submitted any.
12:18:03 <Quiznos> i cant find it either
12:18:09 <Quiznos> oh pff ;)
12:18:22 <Quiznos> taygeta has lots-o-code
12:20:25 <ayrnieu> Quartus - you can look up snippets by tag and submitter, as indicated by the URLs
12:22:44 <Quartus> ayrnieu, I see that.  Nice to be able to search on, say, the titles, though.
12:25:41 <ayrnieu> with good tags the titles shouldn't matter so much -- but I'd like a way to search the body of the snippets for word/function use -- especially as the site already does syntax coloring
12:27:13 <Quartus> I can't think of any good reason not to have a general search avaialble.
12:32:07 <ayrnieu> I will arbitrarily blame Ruby on Rails.
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17:36:44 <k4jcw> Is it worth implementing catch/throw?
17:37:18 <Quiznos> i dont know it to answer; for me, it's no, but i think i'll need to learn it
17:37:24 <Quiznos> c++ didnt help
17:37:38 <k4jcw> I can understand that.
17:38:14 <Quiznos> i'd say, give that the concept came from c++ i'd say optional
17:38:39 <Quiznos> given
17:38:43 <k4jcw> It doesn't appear to be that difficult.  I'd have to implement RP@ and RP!, but that's trivial.
17:39:00 <Quiznos> those are 3 or 4 asm line
17:39:02 <Quiznos> lines
17:39:31 <Quiznos> i need to implement seemless stack switching
17:39:54 <Raystm2> http://retroforth.org/projects/RxChess/ daily increment of code habit.
17:39:57 <Raystm2> what's up?
17:40:00 <k4jcw> That misspelling totally changes the context.
17:40:01 <Quiznos> nuttin
17:40:10 <Quiznos> what spelink?
17:40:17 <k4jcw> seamless v. seemless.
17:40:24 <Quiznos> heh
17:45:14 <k4jcw> It's insane how much nylon hardware, such as standoffs, screws, and nuts cost.
17:45:28 <Quiznos> heh
17:45:33 <Quiznos> twist ties are cheap
17:45:52 <k4jcw> Yes, but they won't allow me to properly mount my PDP-8 front panel.
17:46:08 <Quiznos> cool
17:46:13 <k4jcw> SBC6120 front panel, really.  It's a 2/3's scale PDP-8 panel.
17:46:13 <Quiznos> i'd like some ancient hw
17:46:41 <k4jcw> I've thought I wanted a PDP-11 for a while, but keeping them running is a pain.
17:46:49 <Quiznos> why?
17:46:56 <k4jcw> I'll probably stick to emulators, even though it's not quite the same.
17:47:03 <Quiznos> agreed
17:47:26 <k4jcw> There's two flavors of '11s.  The LSI logic versions, for which the LSI logic is hard to get, and the TTL version, for which the TTL cards are getting harder to find.
17:47:49 <Quiznos> yea
17:48:06 <k4jcw> You need a complete set of prints for debugging (not hard to get), and a decent scope (which I've got), and a whole lot of patience (of which I have none)
17:48:14 <Quiznos> heh
17:49:32 <k4jcw> http://sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120_Front_Panel.htm
17:49:54 <k4jcw> I have three of the PDP-8 CPU cards, and one front panel.  You don't need the FP at all, but it's fun.
17:50:15 <Quiznos> cool
17:50:46 <Quiznos> years ago i almost had the chance to buy an 8; but i went with a ][+ instead
17:50:52 <k4jcw> SBC6120 cards, rather.  I don't do much with them anymore.  I also have two of the Elf-1802 boards. 
17:50:59 <k4jcw> Yea, then the ][ was worth more.
17:51:05 <Quiznos> yea
17:51:10 <Quiznos> i still regret it
17:51:51 <k4jcw> I used to work on a PDP-8/e (I think.  One that looked like a desk with a small return on it.  No front panel, had a VT-52 and dual RX-01s).  Ever since then, I've always wanted a real 8.
17:52:19 <Quiznos> cool
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19:01:49 <Quiznos> it's 10pm do you know where your inner interpreter is?
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19:33:36 <juri_> i write in C. :P
19:33:49 * juri_ sticks out like a sore thumb.
19:34:19 <Quartus> Don't worry, lots of people write in C.  I learned C 20 years ago, I still sometimes use it. :)
19:37:52 <k4jcw> At least it's not Python.
19:38:05 <k4jcw> Python is for people who can't master BASIC.
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21:38:25 <Quartus> Hi nighty_. How was Boston?
21:38:37 <nighty_> Quartus, I did not go 
21:38:42 <Quartus> Sure, sure :)
21:38:46 <nighty_> Quartus, I told you yesterday 
21:39:04 <Quartus> I figured that was just your story for show.
21:39:11 <nighty_> Quartus, lol :)
21:39:31 <nighty_> Quartus, I am picking my ADSL provider
21:39:43 <nighty_> quartus, I'll go with Eicat
21:39:56 <nighty_> quartus, since I know them and they have a good service
21:39:58 <Quartus> For home?
21:40:03 <nighty_> quartus, yes
21:40:09 <Quartus> You're a Rogers customer right now aren't you?
21:40:32 <nighty_> quartus, right now I am on the net courtesy of an unknown neighbour
21:40:36 <nighty_> :)
21:40:38 <Quartus> Ah.
21:40:58 <nighty_> I just pulled the good old web cracker
21:41:04 <nighty_> and voila
21:41:06 <nighty_> :)
21:41:12 <nighty_> wep
21:41:16 <nighty_> not web
21:41:32 <Quartus> Your neighbour uses Rogers.
21:41:36 <nighty_> Yes :)
21:41:46 <nighty_> kind of crappy
21:41:56 <nighty_> won't let you SMTP out 
21:42:05 <nighty_> I have to use a VPN to get thru 
21:42:19 <nighty_> in order to reach my SMTP server
21:42:42 <Quartus> My SMTP offers port 2525 as well as port 25, so I use that.
21:42:53 <nighty_> and they play plenty tricks with QOS
21:43:12 <nighty_> which makes it very crappy
21:44:13 <Quartus> Hmm. I don't run into trouble, but then perhaps you use apps I don't.
21:44:33 <nighty_> i use many things :)
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21:44:54 <nighty_> this laptop is stil windows because I use it for video conference with my wife
21:45:09 <nighty_> but soon it will be FreeBSD
21:45:17 <nighty_> just like all my other machines
21:45:57 <nighty_> I can't believe how crappy the adsl offers are in canada
21:46:01 <nighty_> compared to france
21:46:14 <nighty_> I thought we were like decades behind north america
21:46:22 <nighty_> but in fact we are ahead 
21:46:36 <nighty_> feels kind of strange
21:47:58 <Quartus> What's wrong with the adsl available here?  I don't know much about adsl.
21:48:09 <nighty_> only 5Mbps
21:48:22 <nighty_> in france it is 20Mbps
21:48:30 <nighty_> and up 1Mbps
21:48:44 <nighty_> with TV 300 channels +
21:48:49 <nighty_> and free national phone
21:48:58 <nighty_> and international phone to certain countries
21:49:04 <nighty_> also free
21:49:12 <nighty_> and SIP trunk and DID
21:49:26 <nighty_> for 29,90 Euros all taxes included
21:50:41 <Quartus> I didn't think ADSL could reach 20Mbps.
21:52:23 <Quartus> I thought it capped out at 8Mbps.
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21:52:55 <nighty_> Quartus, no
21:53:03 <nighty_> Quartus, ADSL is 8Mpbs
21:53:10 <nighty_> ADSL2+
21:53:20 <nighty_> is 24Mpbs ATM and 20Mpbs IP
21:54:02 <nighty_> in France FREE the ISP that delivers this 
21:54:26 <nighty_> has a DWDM backbone of 64 x 10Gbps
21:54:42 <nighty_> and DSLAM in every CO in the country 
21:55:18 <nighty_> all the backbone is made of CISCO 6500 and HUAWEI equipment
21:55:39 <nighty_> top of the line hardware 
21:56:26 <nighty_> FREE alone is pushing out and taking in more than all canadian providers together
21:56:37 <nighty_> in terms of traffic
21:56:45 <nighty_> they even have their own IX
21:57:20 <nighty_> and they peers in USA and Canada
21:57:34 <nighty_> and all other major European countries
21:57:57 <nighty_> ie: Amsterdam , London, Frankfurt , Roma etc...
21:58:12 <nighty_> and they are not the incumbent
21:58:21 <nighty_> in a word 
21:58:29 <nighty_> they kick ass :)
22:05:37 <nighty_> I guess 7 / 11 is 
22:05:49 <nighty_> from 7h00 am to 11h00 PM ?
22:06:31 <Quartus> ?
22:07:06 <nighty_> the shop 
22:07:09 <nighty_> seven eleven
22:07:49 <nighty_> I let you process the data :)
22:08:45 <Quartus> It's a 24-hour place.
22:09:09 <nighty_> cool
22:09:16 <nighty_> 711
22:09:40 <nighty_> 2 months more and it would have been a bad name
22:09:49 <nighty_> 911
22:11:51 <nighty_> i want to get SCI FI channel
22:12:03 <Quartus> The Canadian version is called SPACE.
22:12:04 <nighty_> but I can't find anyone selling this in canada
22:12:17 <Quartus> Think you might need to go satellite for that.
22:12:25 <nighty_> I guess I just have to order it from USA
22:12:55 <nighty_> SPACE
22:12:57 <nighty_> cool
22:13:01 <nighty_> oh bell
22:13:03 <nighty_> shit
22:13:07 <nighty_> expensive
22:13:23 <nighty_> what encryption they are using ?
22:13:57 <Quartus> For what?
22:15:30 <nighty_> for bell satellite
22:15:50 <nighty_> oh they are using phone lines
22:16:13 <nighty_> uhmmm what if you don't want them to use the phone line ?
22:16:25 <nighty_> is it a requirement ?
22:16:52 <Quartus> I think so.
22:17:10 <nighty_> so what happens when you want to call or receive a call
22:17:18 <Quartus> They've got that figured out.
22:17:38 <nighty_> uhmmm
22:17:43 <nighty_> v94 ?
22:17:53 <Quartus> I'm not sure of the details.  I use Rogers.
22:17:57 <nighty_> oh
22:18:07 <nighty_> rogers does not have space
22:18:13 <Quartus> They do.
22:18:19 <nighty_> ???
22:18:25 <nighty_> I did not see on their website
22:18:27 <Quartus> Cable channel. SPACE. Rogers 50.
22:18:51 <nighty_> how much you pay for this ?
22:19:26 <Quartus> I'm not sure what the total is for basic cable + internet, I have a few additional packages on the cable.
22:19:50 <Quartus> $100/mo.?  I'd have to check, my Rogers bill includes my wireless device too, I'd have to figure that out.
22:20:00 <nighty_> 100$
22:20:01 <nighty_> shit
22:20:09 <nighty_> that's some serious money
22:20:20 <nighty_> sheees
22:20:26 <Quartus> It's a guess, it may be less than that.
22:20:27 <nighty_> seeesh
22:20:42 <nighty_> you have phone also with roger ?
22:20:48 <Quartus> Yes.
22:21:09 <nighty_> rogers is a rip off IMHO
22:21:33 <nighty_> they nickel and dime you 
22:22:04 <nighty_> and there are limitation on the monthly usage of your internet connection
22:22:17 <Quartus> The Rogers internet is unlimited as far as I'm aware.
22:22:26 <Quartus> You can buy a limited version, I think.
22:24:18 <nighty_> uhmmm
22:24:23 <nighty_> and static IP ?
22:24:37 <Quartus> Yes.
22:28:46 <nighty_> cool
22:28:56 <nighty_> rogers yahoo ?
22:29:33 <Quartus> They have a partnership.
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23:04:12 <nighty-> uhmm
23:04:29 <nighty-> I think I'll buy an internet access and a SKYPE wireless phone
23:04:37 <nighty-> and get a number from skype
23:04:47 <nighty-> for 30$ per year
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