00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.05 00:13:07 --- quit: nighty_ ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 00:42:32 Dividing by 10 without using a divide operation: : u10/ ( u -- u/10 ) $cccccccd um* nip 3 rshift ; 00:42:53 (Gforth $hex syntax) 01:03:12 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@CPE00119576a9c5-CM0012c90d36fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 02:10:17 --- join: vatic (n=charlest@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 02:10:21 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 03:19:31 --- quit: tathi ("ta-ta to the internet...") 03:37:06 quartus: too bad that for um/mod it turns ugly again 04:26:48 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool74-99.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:55:30 --- join: nealc (n=nealc@200-193-224-117.bsace705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) joined #forth 05:55:53 what is up? 05:56:13 nada 05:58:18 legal 06:01:07 1 2 3 .s 06:01:19 hmm? 06:01:30 + . 06:02:03 5 ok 06:02:18 any one knows lambdabot? 06:02:20 nealc - is that a question? 06:02:31 Yes, I know about lambdabot. 06:02:49 he is a good guy. 06:08:53 --- join: erider (n=erider@unaffiliated/erider) joined #forth 06:09:15 ayrnieu, why ."oi" gets a undefined word and ." oi" does not? 06:09:52 nealc - beacuse ."oi" is an undefine word, unline ." 06:09:56 unlike 06:10:14 : ."oi" ." oi" ; 06:11:29 madgarden, is this a definition? 06:11:34 I'm running into the same issue with my palmOS 06:11:47 nealc, yes. 06:11:58 I'm getting a lot of undefined words 06:12:32 nealc - gforth comes with two nice tutorials. These should help you. 06:34:44 erider: I'm assuming you mean Quartus? Have you loaded all the ANS libraries? 06:37:32 I think so but let me check 06:38:24 vatic: thats the qrsrc.prc file correct? 06:39:10 you'll get 'undefined words' in any case. If this bothers you, ask about the undefined word. Don't immediately set off on a wild goose chase about libraries. 06:40:01 I have not ask about a library 06:40:23 I did ask about the undefined word 06:40:24 erider: I'm using the evaluation version (blush) and I have a memo in memopad with the first line: \ startup.quartus... 06:40:52 I'm running into the same issue with my palmOS 06:40:52 nealc, yes. 06:40:52 I'm getting a lot of undefined words 06:41:09 erider - yes, I can see that. 06:41:11 erider: you'll want a line in there like: needs allans to get the ANS words to load 06:41:36 erider: of course, you need \ allans and the rest of the ANS file for that to work. 06:42:01 erider: that'll get you ANS compatibility... 06:43:32 ok ayrnieu but is seemed like you were talk about libraries like I started talking about them and I didn't 06:45:13 erider - fascinating. 06:45:45 --- part: erider left #forth 06:45:51 ayrnieu: It seems I'm the one who started talking about libraries... 06:46:04 yes, I know. 06:46:13 i am confuse. what happened? 06:47:25 "libraries" have at least 3 contexts that I can think of. 06:48:00 nealc - erider complained vaguely about undefined words, vatic started helping him with a lot of nonsense about libraries, I noted that 'undefined words' is normal and doesn't warrant running about with libraries until more information arises, and then erider got very confused. 06:48:00 1) a collection of books or files; 06:48:34 2) a collection of funcs and data (static) - 3) as #2, dynamic 06:49:08 nealc - the basic problem is that erider never asked a question, but vatic anyway tried to answer him -- a breakdown of technical IRC channel protocol that much good rarely comes of. 06:49:46 ayrnieu: sorry! 06:49:53 good rarely much from comes 06:50:16 PoppaVic - what I said is well-formed, and makes sense. 06:50:25 sometimes folks leap into "helping" w/o forcing the querent to state some sense. 06:50:42 ayrnieu: it was a yoda-speak comment ;-) 06:50:55 PoppaVic, :) 06:51:53 sometimes the issues are the terms w/o proper context. Forths are really so generic that this becomes an issue. 06:53:46 when he posts a clear question, and maybe an example, perhaps vatic can answer him better. 06:54:45 PoppaVic: I'm sure there are more qualified folks to answer here and I'll stay out of support questions... 06:55:13 vatic - no, you don't have to worry about staying out of things. 06:55:27 vatic: don't look at me.. I tinker with ficl and gforth, and live in C - it's been decades since I lived Forths 06:56:07 vatic - but if you feel actively helpful, try putting that energy to convincing people to ask questions. It's much easier to answer their questions, that way :-) 06:56:32 vatic: mostly it's a matter of playing guru/teacher and ask stepwise-refining questions until you can ascertain wtf the querant really wanted to know. 06:57:05 ayrnieu: ok, stop thinking my thinks, dammit! ;-) 06:57:22 ayrnieu: My ability to help is limited and I'm not one to rush in on things I'm unsure of- I do think you're right that I could have spent more time finding out what the erider's problem was... 06:57:50 like PoppaVic said... 06:57:57 getting people to /ask a bloody question/ is useful in general, really. Even when you've no clue at all about the subject manner, helping someone to ask a good question will leave a good question in the channel for a more passive person to answer. Also, once asked, good questions often answer themselves. 06:58:01 :) 06:58:47 Yep, I was going to mention that, sometimes - in answering you - they will suddenly do a /homer or /ohshit and see an answer anyway 06:59:04 and when you're stressed, focusing on the question saves you from falling into the trap of giving someone a bunch of advice, at the end of which they say "oh! My monitor was off! *so stupid*lol" 06:59:18 hehe - no DOUBT! 06:59:39 "Do you still have the boxes your system shipped in..?" 07:01:42 PoppaVic: Yes, I experience /homer quite frequently! ;-) 07:02:00 anyway, good morning from NYC! 07:03:31 yeah, It's not a bad day at all - yer just across the pond. 07:03:57 PoppaVic: cooler here finally... 07:04:27 Well, I am sure our A/C likes the break, but I am in the basement. Upstairs will begin heating soon. 07:05:47 I dunno' why everyone whines about "global warming"... I've seen worse summers. Still, tis nice to see other folks getting some weather-extremes and cry, instead of smirking at Michiganders. 07:06:22 vatic: how long you doodled with Forths? 07:08:24 hmm... brb, lemme' recycle the ISP 07:08:28 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:08:58 PoppaVic: I worked on some CD-I projects in the early 90s with MacForth and have just recently (past year or so) come back to it... 07:09:58 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool64-215.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:10:17 that's better 07:11:53 vatic: hello? 07:19:26 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:19:39 PoppaVic: sorry, went and took a shower! 07:19:45 ahh 07:21:13 S'ok, I took a few leaks and had a few beers while trying to puzzle out some silliness ;-) 07:21:20 PoppaVic: yeah, got Sat morning errands next... 07:21:35 ouch - ok. Well, have fun and stay well 07:23:53 PoppaVic: mostly just breakfast and buying more food. Not the suburban panic at Costco or anything. ;-) 07:24:01 hehe 07:24:23 we did that the other day, and STILL spent about 4x what I had planned. 07:24:46 Still, you just can't cook w/o shit TO cook. 07:25:19 PoppaVic: Costco may be cheap, but the large quantities CO$T. Plus here in an apartment, there's a major storage issue... 07:25:42 always. In my apt I just had enough for a variant-week 07:25:46 PoppaVic: unless you were talking about food... 07:25:56 mind you, I was working "food service" anyway 07:26:40 I never understood old-farts and yuppies buying daily, though 07:27:14 ..apparently, it has to do with their time-binding and scheduling-inabilities. 07:27:18 PoppaVic: fresh bread and vegs are nice... 07:27:52 bread-machines work, and veg are a seasonal - and still usable for a week or 3 07:28:48 "wet" veggies, yeah. THOSE can be an issue. 07:29:48 PoppaVic: for me the idea isn't preservation, but what's fresh that day... 07:31:03 anyway, gotta go! PoppaVic, ayrnieu, ciao! 07:31:06 --- quit: vatic ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]") 07:31:14 laters 07:39:51 --- nick: nealc -> nealc-afk 08:53:25 --- join: PoppaVic1 (n=pete@0-1pool74-4.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:53:45 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 08:53:53 --- nick: PoppaVic1 -> PoppaVic 09:04:22 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@69-168-231-199.bflony.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:04:26 b00! 09:04:38 forth and forth, what is forth? 09:04:42 it is controller? 09:07:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_programming_language 09:07:16 pff i'm not a nob 09:07:17 :) 09:07:36 dont talk to me, a am away :) 09:07:46 ok 09:07:50 * Quiznos pokes nealc-afk 09:07:50 nealc-afk falls over 09:07:50 Quiznos runs. 09:11:21 --- nick: Quiznos -> PissedPurpleSmur 09:12:24 --- nick: PissedPurpleSmur -> PisdPurpleSmurf 09:13:25 --- nick: PisdPurpleSmurf -> Quiznos 09:24:21 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 09:27:06 what the foo? 09:29:44 virl problem? 10:00:20 forth and forth, what is forth? 10:03:18 ask the question without using the verb 'to be'. 10:03:39 you foo'd 10:47:27 --- nick: nealc-afk -> nealc 10:54:36 :? 11:00:47 What's that, nealc? 11:02:17 i don't know. may be, he wanted some fun. 11:02:32 Who did? 11:17:09 good afternoon 11:17:37 good 11:20:40 Hi crc. 11:29:33 --- nick: nealc -> nealc-afk 12:04:34 chanserv left? 12:05:02 it does that from time to time... 12:14:06 i forgot about a channel that i registered a LONG time ago 12:14:54 --- join: Cheery (n=Cheery@a81-197-20-242.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 12:15:03 hi 12:15:07 not recently 12:17:28 --- quit: nealc-afk ("...") 12:17:49 hey 12:18:55 Anything new happened around? 12:19:06 not today apparently 12:35:16 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-163-206.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:35:33 nop; you start something 12:36:03 --- join: Quartus_ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 12:36:31 12:36:53 no-operation. 12:36:57 k 12:37:05 hey Q 12:38:08 hey Q 12:38:40 ? 12:43:39 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:43:46 oh i'm lagged 12:43:51 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:45:04 someone ping me pls 12:45:27 crc ty, how long? 12:45:30 mine reports that Quiznos is away 12:45:41 nothing more 12:46:26 Quiznos? 12:46:44 how long was the ping rtt? 12:47:05 ok 12:47:36 hi ray 12:47:59 all it says is: Quiznos is away (is away: (Auto-Away after 10 mins) [BS-MsgLog On]) 12:48:01 wow, my irc client is messed 12:48:06 crc ok 12:48:08 yikes 12:59:17 --- quit: nighty_ (Client Quit) 12:59:24 --- join: nighty_ (n=nighty@CPE00119576a9c5-CM0012c90d36fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:00:24 what? 13:01:25 oh sorry, working on chess. what? 13:01:45 oh you're having problems with client, sorry to hear. 13:01:59 Raystm2 yea, and it's realy a new problem 13:02:16 i've never seen any phonememom like it 13:02:39 no, i'm not doing anything different than what i do daily 13:02:58 I have problems with mine as well. Right, same old same old and then all of a sudden... 13:02:59 what was the last line you saw from me? 13:03:09 starting when? 13:03:19 from when i asked 13:03:39 it's really amazing and asynchronistic 13:04:07 like right now, i just lost two lines that i typed 13:04:14 lol 13:04:23 and there went another line disappearing 13:04:29 and there went another line disappearing 13:04:47 and there went another line disappearing 13:04:51 amazing 13:04:54 lol 13:05:58 I don't see in the log where you said "amazing and asynchronistic". 13:06:12 'cept for the one a few lines up :) 13:09:55 --- quit: Cheery ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 13:11:47 lol. OMG bitchx is dying... 13:26:58 Raystm2 13:27:50 bitchx is dying? 13:32:39 --- join: vatic (n=charlest@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 13:43:34 --- join: Quartus__ (n=Quartus_@209.167.5.1) joined #forth 13:43:48 it's the irc client i use 13:43:50 it's the irc client i use 13:45:44 --- quit: Quartus_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:46:19 one of the freenode staffers has been notified 14:18:41 * Raystm2 Aye* Awaiting commands... 14:19:04 hi virl. 14:19:23 hi comrade Raystm2 14:19:36 none till staffers fix it 14:25:16 --- join: nealc (n=nealc@200-193-224-117.bsace705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) joined #forth 15:22:48 --- part: crc left #forth 15:24:09 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-183-96.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:26:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 15:56:39 uhmm 15:57:05 Quartus there? 16:17:49 hi. 16:19:26 How are things? 16:25:48 re 16:31:15 quar: 16:31:17 quartus 16:52:16 --- quit: neceve ("Leaving") 17:02:27 --- quit: Quiznos ("bx restart") 17:04:12 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@69-168-231-199.bflony.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:04:35 can i get a `b00'? 17:11:38 * juri_ hides. 17:11:48 * Quiznos pokes juri_ 17:11:48 juri_ falls over 17:11:48 Quiznos runs. 18:10:24 : ud* ( ud1 ud2 -- uq ) 2over rot dm* 2>r >r dm* r> um+ 2r> rot um+ ; \ Multiply two unsigned double-cell values to produce a quadruple-cell result. 18:11:45 : udm* ( ud u -- ut ) tuck um* swap um* rot um+ ; \ Multiply two unsigned double-cell values to produce a triple-cell result. 18:11:51 So I suppose in ud* it sould be udm* that I call. 18:11:56 I am fine 18:12:06 I am wondering what to do tonight 18:12:22 I believe Caribana is in town tonight. 18:12:36 Caribana ? 18:12:41 what's that ? 18:12:51 Annual Caribbean music festival, lots of people come to town for it. 18:13:01 oh 18:13:06 I did not know this 18:14:05 http://www.caribana.com/ 18:14:29 lots of noise for you :) 18:14:45 I'm just far enough away from Yonge not to hear anything. 18:26:03 Oops. : udm* ( ud u -- ut ) tuck um* 2swap um* rot um+ ; \ Multiply two unsigned double-cell values to produce a triple-cell result. 18:26:39 What's the cell size on Quartus forth? 18:26:44 16-bit. 18:40:23 Horrible bug in that code. Don't go using it in medical equipment :) I'll post a paste in awhile. 18:42:48 Flight control systems would be OK, though? :) 18:43:03 Or nuclear facilities. 18:43:08 Automatic spacecraft docking? 18:43:15 Cruise missile terrain following? 18:43:16 Weapons systems. 18:43:25 Experimental physics. 18:43:41 Waste water pump stations? 18:43:50 Only ones I don't live near. 18:44:00 I'd say that's true for all those, then. 18:44:11 Especially the last one. :) 18:44:18 Yea. Nasty stuff. 18:46:16 Hi Quartus, thanks for your division help on c.l.f.! 18:46:27 Hey, no problem. Was that you asking? 18:46:36 Ah, think I found the wiley bug. 18:46:45 Oops. : udm* ( ud u -- ut ) tuck um* 2swap um* 2swap rot um+ ; \ Multiply two unsigned double-cell values to produce a triple-cell result. 18:47:11 Quartus: yup... 18:48:10 Gave me a chance to dust off my multi-precision aritmetic skills, lots of dust there. Just writing some triple- and quadruple-cell routines. 18:48:18 Quartus: asking ?s on c.l.f. is always such a challenge... 18:48:37 Can be. Won't always get straight answers. 18:48:39 Quartus: I see you are. I'm awaiting the paste bin... :-) 18:49:25 Quartus: what do you mean by straight answers? I find folks often answer what they find interesting... 18:50:50 I mean, you ask how to divide by 10 by without using divide, and somebody will ask you to specify your problem domain, somebody else will ask what platform you're on, somebody else will tell you that you should just use a division operator because any real computer has one, somebody else will tell you that Chuck Moore gave up division in the 70's, etc. 18:51:23 and of course the obvious answer is to multiply by .1 ! 18:51:29 Three other people will post broken solutions that they haven't tested. 18:51:39 Quartus: anyway, your solution was also a demonstration of how I can use Forth in my assembly coding.. 18:51:45 Oh yes? How so? 18:51:51 Quartus: true, true... 18:51:58 Because the concept carries across. 18:52:08 http://pastebin.ca/117685 so far 18:52:27 Quartus: well, you cobbled the solution together, I assume, very quickly, in Forth... 18:52:31 There's an errant debugging .s in the last word. 18:52:57 I did, Forth is perfect for fiddling around to figure out what works best. 18:53:03 Quartus: watching the stack as I broke down what you were doing, showed my I needed really to rshift 19 times... 18:53:13 Is 'UNDO' considered passe' 18:53:29 Quartus: and it also shows how you can built secondary words from primitives. 18:53:34 s/'$/?/ 18:53:55 Quartus: one difficulty I'm having is writing the least amount of assembly for my Forth... 18:54:14 You mean you're trying to build your whole Forth with as few actual primitives as possible? 18:54:58 What's the magic number? Something like only 7 primitives have to be in assembly? 18:55:09 Quartus: no, just trying to write as little assembly as possible to get something working... 18:55:38 I think it's been whittled down to three or so at the absolute minimum, but that'd be little more than a parlour trick. I'd think something like 30 or 40 for a real system. 18:56:21 Quartus: I think Albert van der Horst's fig-forth has 44 asm primitives... 18:57:48 Sounds reasonable. 18:58:32 Why are you trying to minimize the amount of assembly? Don't like writing assembly, or concerned about portability? 18:59:09 --- join: LOOP-HOG (n=jason@dialup-4.242.174.229.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net) joined #forth 18:59:12 jcw: It's for a PIC 18f microcontroller. Mostly, it's my first time through and I don't know what I'm doing and what choices to make... 19:00:00 Have you seen Samuel Tardieu's implementation? 19:00:06 jcw: So if I can get an interpreter running, then it's easier to see what's good and bad. Before that, I'm just testing pieces... 19:00:15 http://www.rfc1149.net/ 19:00:26 jcw: Is it a compiler? I want the interpreter on the chip. 19:00:37 It is a compiler. 19:00:39 Quartus: hey bug in your code :) 19:00:55 Oh yes? What'd I miss? 19:01:00 jcw: And the smaller 16f chips... 19:01:02 You've picked a helluva a processor to do it on. The PIC sucks for stack manipulations. 19:01:04 Quartus: just catching up 19:01:13 Oh ok. Check the pastebin. :) 19:01:20 Quartus: with the conversation 19:02:00 vatic, I made some notes awhile back listing 43 CORE words that I felt would be best implemented as primitives. 19:02:04 jcw: They've improved it in the 18f series. There are three indirect registers with pre/post inc/dec. 19:02:15 --- quit: nealc (""N.o s.uc.h un.im.ped.ed v.i.ew ex.is.ts."") 19:02:33 It's still pretty bogus. I write code on a PIC18F8722, and have been for a couple years (started on the '8620). 19:02:39 From those 43 I could build a further 60 or so Standard words in source. 19:02:43 Quartus: let me know if you post it... 19:02:59 I've written assembly for over 30 different processors, at last count, and I still consider the PIC the worst. Even the PDP-8 arch is better. 19:03:05 jcw: neat forth for PIC , nice 19:03:26 The indirect registers were a lame bolt-on to an already lame architecture. 19:03:52 jcw: agreed. My stacks are preinc/postdec. It's for this: http://multio.mamalala.net/ 19:04:14 jcw: do you have a favorite MCU for Forth? 19:04:15 vatic: http://pastebin.ca/117708 19:04:52 Thanks Quartus! 19:05:14 vatic, pretty cool! A board like will be useful. 19:05:35 I have a list of another 30 that I'd also build as primitives, though none of them are used to build the 60 others I mentioned. 19:05:38 jcw: or what do you think of the Atmel that allows external memory? 19:05:39 vatic, nice :) I might even use for this :) 19:05:51 Hmm... No, not really. Most of my projects have been assembly or C. Although the 6809 has a nice architecture. 19:06:28 I like the Atmels. We use those a fair amount. Mega8s, Mega128s, and the occasional 8 pin device. I really like the MSP430. 19:06:36 That would be another good arch for Forth. 19:06:49 nighty_: yeah the guy that designed it is really brilliant. I'm starting with the space he left for a 18f2620 with serial connection... 19:07:17 I've played around with the PSoC, it wouldn't be so good. Or the one from Maxim that I just forgot the name of... 19:07:19 nighty_: and hoping I can upgrade the main USB chip to use Forth also... 19:07:22 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 19:07:24 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-236-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:07:26 vatic, nice 19:07:46 MaxQ. 19:08:12 Maybe quartus can write a forth for the atheros/arm Soc 19:08:28 There's already several ARM forths. 19:09:04 The ARM is nice, but I have a hard time calling it a "microcontroller". 19:09:06 jcw: it was the atmega8515 that caught my eye. Attach static RAM to it... 19:09:26 jcw, did I say it was ? 19:09:28 I've done some preliminary work on ARM forth. 19:10:00 I ordered some gumstix 19:10:05 to play with 19:10:10 Based on vatics statement of MCU's for Forth, I assumed you were replying in type. 19:10:11 neat little devices 19:10:22 jcw, oh ok :) 19:11:23 Anyway, sorry to punk out on you guys, but I'm going out. 19:11:31 take care and thanks!! 19:11:37 vatic, oh well :) 19:11:41 --- quit: vatic ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]") 19:12:11 --- quit: ayrnieu (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:12:16 nighty, look like neat toys. 19:17:51 yes 19:18:23 now I need to get some independant device to beacon thru WIFI 19:18:32 like an RFID tag 19:18:50 it has to be very low power 19:18:58 consumption 19:19:06 so it can last for years 19:19:25 on a small battery 19:19:48 years being like 2 years 19:20:00 Battery selection will no doubt be important, too. 19:20:02 hence the forth 19:20:07 for the firmware 19:21:08 My understanding of RFID tags is that they carry no power, but rather respond to the radiant EM field of an RFID-reader. 19:21:21 Our product uses 6 AA cells. It has a DPAC 802.11b Wifi modules on it. Using good quality batteries, we can last over a year when waking the radio up twice a day for 30 seconds for updates. 19:21:29 this is only the passive tags 19:21:48 i am talking about active tags 19:21:51 Ah ok. 19:22:24 jcw, twice a day is too low freq 19:22:58 802.11abg is not designed for great battery life. 19:23:08 It's very power hungry, and comparatively inefficient. 19:23:09 jcw: depends 19:23:23 No, not really. Not if you want to run within spec. 19:23:25 look at aeroscout rfid tags 19:24:03 jcw: I just need to send some frames other 802.11 19:24:16 jcw: no IP required 19:24:42 You really don't need to paste my nick in front of everything you say :) 19:24:47 jcw, though that would be fantastic to have also a tcp/ip stack 19:25:04 jcw, I feel the urge to do it :) 19:25:14 jcw, can't help it :) 19:25:22 jcw it's catchy :) 19:25:50 how is everybody? 19:25:57 Raystm2, hi :) 19:26:05 hi 19:26:13 What are you going to use for an 802.11 transceiver or transmitter? 19:26:15 Raystm2, so I see your Chess program is going along well :) 19:26:34 Also, what's going to be listening for those frames? 19:26:34 jcw, we do not know yet 19:26:51 jcw, our own device 19:26:51 nighty_ if your interested, crc has set up http://retroforth.org/projects/RxChess/ 19:27:11 Perhaps you should consider 802.15 instead. 19:27:25 zigbee 19:27:27 uhmmm 19:27:32 yes we are 19:27:42 I'm trying to learn how the work flow goes when editing and posting to darcs then getting and editing again. 19:27:42 Doesn't have to be Zigbee. 19:27:43 but not for this application 19:27:48 You can frame your own stuff on 802.15. 19:27:57 And Zigbee really isn't ready for prime-time yet. 19:28:19 jcw, like which product ? 19:28:32 What do you mean? 19:28:37 chipset , board > 19:29:01 url ? 19:29:08 Standby. 19:30:01 http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=ZRP-1&nodeId=02XPgQhCQ6m6cy7103 Freescales offerings. 19:30:37 --- quit: LOOP-HOG (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:30:44 http://www.chipcon.com/index.cfm?kat_id=2&subkat_id=12&dok_id=115 ChipCons. 19:30:53 I used this in the Zigbee board I never quite finished. 19:31:04 I was using the Microchip stack, and it's seriously screwbarred. 19:31:32 uhmm 19:31:48 what is your company name ? 19:31:52 Microchips Zigbee boards make reasonable development platforms for your own stuff. In spite of them having PICs on them. 19:32:07 I'm a consultant. I don't have a company, per se. 19:32:13 oh ok 19:32:22 where from ? 19:32:30 Atlanta, GA, USA 19:33:15 Actually, my status is about to change. The company I've been consulting to for 2.3 years has convinced me to go full-time. 19:35:31 Kinda crazy, really. The company got bought back in April by a multi-billion dollar company. The new company doesn't like consultants because they don't "own" the knowledge. Now, I'm the only person who knows anything about this product, thanks to the previous management. So, if I'm a consultant, I'm the only one who knows anything, and if I leave, they lose that knowledge. 19:35:50 Conversely, if I go to work for them full-time, I'm still the only one that knows anything and I can still quit. 19:36:03 So... Other than the overhead of a full-time employee, then haven't really gained anything. 19:36:35 Maybe it alters the shareholders' perceptions. 19:36:44 Probably. 19:37:08 Probably changes the tax status for the money they pay you, too. 19:37:10 This company isn't really knowlegable about technology. 19:37:50 Me and the other guy are going to have to try to drag them kicking and screaming into the 20th century. 19:38:04 Start with the light bulb. 19:38:19 Tried to explain why they needed to build a test fixture for these boards we're building. 19:38:29 "If we assemble them, they should just work, right?" 19:39:13 They're used to stuff with mechanical tolerances. If you build a door strike, and all the parts fit together, the odds are very low that it will fail to work properly. 19:39:33 This concept that electronics have infant mortality, handling issues, etc, is somewhat foreign to them. 19:39:39 Still, prudent to test the odd one to make sure it doesn't fail under stress. 19:40:00 Yes, but there's not an overriding need to test EVERYONE that comes off the line. 19:40:35 Depends on the product. Some strictly mechanical items, all of them are tested. 19:41:07 It does depend on the product. But not for theirs. 19:42:46 jcw, even for electronic you test all of them 19:43:00 jcw, with some test program 19:43:20 jcw, checks that the boards are doing what they are supposed to be doing 19:43:27 Indeed. Or be prepared for substantial customer dissatisfaction. 19:43:37 I agree. I never said that electronics should not be tested. Read back. 19:43:50 jcw, I mistunderstood then 19:43:54 I said we're trying to explain to them why we NEED to build a test fixture to test products. 19:44:02 oh 19:49:36 Geez, these Palm devices are not cheap. 19:49:46 Yes, some aren't. 19:50:24 I imagined you've amassed quite a collection for testing? 19:50:40 I'd get a Palm but I'm going on vacation instead. 19:50:54