00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.08.03
00:00:23 <Raystm2> But tis working.
00:01:03 <Raystm2> well, not any more. :(
00:01:11 <JasonWoof> : abs dup 0 >; negate ;
00:01:13 <Raystm2> But that's the fun part.
00:01:31 <JasonWoof> : abs dup 0 >=; negate ;
00:05:09 <Quartus> : abs  dup 0< tuck xor swap - ;
00:05:19 <Quartus> : abs  dup negate 2* over 0< and + ;
00:05:21 <Quartus> Both work.
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00:08:04 <Quartus> Reminds me of the work on sgn a few weeks ago.  Came up with   : sgn   dup  0<  swap  0>  - ;
00:08:50 <Quiznos> cool
00:09:05 <Quiznos> wouldnt an xor work in that too?
00:09:15 <Quartus> Try it.
00:12:31 <Quiznos> i'm not awake yet
00:12:39 <Quartus> Note for any of the non-IF versions of ABS or SGN to be branchless, their components must not be hiding any branches in the comparison operators.
00:13:22 <Quiznos> : abs dup 07f and ;
00:13:51 <Quartus> So you mask off the lower 7 bits and call it abs?
00:13:59 <Quiznos> i'm not awake yet
00:14:03 <Quartus> Apparently.
00:14:07 <Quiznos> dont be too harsh :)
00:14:15 <Quartus> There's no way to be too harsh about that.
00:14:19 <Quiznos> ok
00:17:11 <Quartus> If you have sgn as above, then     : abs  dup sgn * ;  also works.
00:17:39 <Quartus> The * is hardly the fastest possible way to do it, but it works and it's certainly concise.
00:23:03 <Raystm2> 2* congruent with 2 >> ? or 2 << ?
00:23:17 <Quartus> 2* is a left-shift.
00:23:37 <Raystm2> Thank you. 
00:23:40 <Quiznos> ray 2* is x shl 1
00:23:47 <Raystm2> ya.
00:23:48 <Quiznos> 2/ x shr 1
00:23:52 <Raystm2> okay
00:23:58 <Raystm2> retro = << and >>
00:24:03 <Quiznos> yea
00:24:20 <Quartus> The C operators.  Never liked'em much.
00:24:22 <Quiznos> i like some of the c-isms that are forthy
00:24:39 <Quartus> Look like comparisons to me.
00:24:54 <Quiznos> it could but it's mathematical and terse
00:25:51 <Quartus> And C++ overloads << considerably, does it not?
00:26:44 <Quiznos> yea, with use of string and file io
00:26:50 <Quiznos> s/with/for
00:27:05 <Quartus> cout << "Hello, World!" ;    etc.  Horribly confusing.
00:27:13 <Quiznos> but it's good for forth
00:27:38 <Quartus> It's just as easy to confuse << and < in Forth as it is in C; actually probably easier.
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00:28:22 <Quiznos> i dont think someone who can think in forth would confuse the two language token given that each lang-think is very different
00:28:41 <Quartus> Easy to type one when you mean the other.  
00:29:00 <Quartus> That's something C programmers also suffer from, = vs ==.  Horrible.
00:29:03 <Quiznos> i never had a problem confusing those symbols 
00:29:19 <Quiznos> well that's a different kind of mistake imo
00:29:38 <Quartus> It's the same problem.  < vs <<     = vs ==
00:31:04 <Quartus> If you find yourself looking at a weird definition of ABS that has  1 << in it, you might well be given to wonder if it's  1 <  or 1 <<.  I see possibility for error there, both in understanding and in editing, that you wouldn't get with LSHIFT.
00:31:41 <Quiznos> you're writing about people who gloss code instead of read it
00:32:12 <Quartus> So you agree that the use of << as a name requires more careful reading than would LSHIFT.
00:33:21 <Quiznos> all code should be examined closely, not glossed.  glossing is a symptom of lack of attention.
00:33:25 <Quiznos> so yes
00:33:49 <Quartus> So it follows that there's a greater possibility of error using << instead of LSHIFT.
00:33:50 <Quiznos> it's like mistaking "throughly" for "thoroughly"
00:34:15 <Quartus> Well hell, why not make all operators intensely cryptic and similar in order to weed out those who aren't paying enough attention?
00:34:16 <Quiznos> the fault, dear brutus, lies in the reader, not the coder - LOL
00:34:54 <Quartus> Plus, I might add, "throughly" isn't a word.
00:35:04 <Quiznos> i'm not responsible to someone who misreads my code.
00:35:39 <Quiznos> "throughly" is a word, altho it's mistranslated and misread
00:36:04 <Quiznos> it's used in the king James translation of one of Paul's letters
00:36:11 <Quiznos> it is a word
00:37:52 <Quartus> It's an archaic, obsolete spelling of "thoroughly".  It is in no way a current word, but when it was in use at all, it meant exactly the same thing as "thoroughly".   It doesn't support your argument.
00:39:19 <Quiznos> and yet, the king James work is still published as is. it is a relevant element to my point that (although archaic) the reader must read what is written, not just gloss over text
00:39:52 <Quartus> You can spend all day and night misreading "throughly" as "thoroughly" and vice-versa, and come away with exactly the same meaning no matter which way you screw up.
00:39:59 <Quiznos> a writer (coder) writes what they mean; a reader must read the words used without substitution to determine what the writer meant.
00:40:27 <Quiznos> ok
00:41:28 <Quartus> If you ask me, somebody setting type on the KJV left out an o, and the error was propogated forward.
00:44:14 <Quiznos> sorry, the chosen editors have already departed so there can be no rebuke.
00:51:43 <Quartus> Printing errors in the KJV were corrected for a hundred and fifty-odd years after the original printing.  Any they missed after 1769 or so are still there.
00:52:26 <Quiznos> ok i wasnt aware of that
00:58:17 <Quartus> The 1631 revision of the KJV left 'not' out of the seventh commandment. 
00:58:45 <Quiznos> heh
00:59:18 <Quartus> I'm not kidding.  "VII. Thou shall commit adultery."
00:59:20 <Quiznos> isnt that the version that they used in MASH when the priest brought the book to Potter and showed him that verse?
00:59:23 <Quiznos> yea!
00:59:25 <Quiznos> rofl
01:01:13 <Quartus> So it's hardly a reach to think they didn't spot a missing 'o' in one word in one of Paul's letters.
01:11:04 <JasonWoof> Quartus: clever :) you can eliminate the swap like so:  : abs dup 0> tuck xor - ;
01:11:41 <Quiznos> tuck is still swapping
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03:43:00 <Quiznos> virl
03:43:10 <virl> hmm?
03:43:24 <Quiznos> hi
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06:12:52 <Ray_work> hi
06:14:59 <vatic> Ray_work: hi! when's the trip East?
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06:29:07 <Ray_work> 15th. How are you today?
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07:01:50 <nighty_> hi :)
07:07:36 <Ray_work> hi nighty
07:17:51 <vatic> Ray_work: HOT.
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07:25:41 <vatic> biab...
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08:55:31 <Quartus> Hi all.
08:56:03 <Ray_work> Good morning, Neal.
08:56:10 <Ray_work> How are you today?
09:00:53 <Quartus> Not too bad, Ray_work. You?
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09:45:25 <Ray_work> I'm busy, as usual. Tend to stay that way.
09:46:08 <Ray_work> End of our physcal month coming up friday. Lots of jobs to try to push out the door.
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10:09:01 * vatic guesses that explains Ray_work...
10:32:59 <Quartus> The channel just got a lot less mad.
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10:33:22 <Quartus> Oh wait, that was in the scrollback.  It's slightly mad.
10:33:24 <Quartus> Madwork, anyway.
10:34:06 <madwork> Bwahah.
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11:21:07 <Quartus_> so what's up today?
11:22:46 <I440r> shhhh im at work
11:22:52 <I440r> multigoofing
11:22:58 <I440r> errr i mean multi tasking
11:26:12 <Quartus_> I'm at large, running errands.
11:28:32 <madwork> I'm at work.
11:28:40 <madwork> Getting ready for a QA hand-off.
11:30:05 <Quartus_> sounds exciting. :)
11:31:16 <madwork> Oh... totally.
11:34:08 <Quartus_> QA, UAT, acronyms that never fail to thrill. :)
11:56:17 <nighty_> Hi Quartus :)
11:58:46 <Quartus_> hi nighty. How are you?
12:03:48 <Quartus_> Planning to give you a call tomorrow, if that is suitable.
12:28:46 <nighty_> yes
12:28:54 <nighty_> Quartus: I am fine thanks :)
12:29:07 <nighty_> Quartus: you can come around tomorrow ? that would be great
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12:34:45 <Quartus_> nighty, sure, I'll call you in the morning and set it up.
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13:31:17 <nighty_> ok
13:31:21 <nighty_> got to run 
13:31:22 <nighty_> :)
13:31:27 <nighty_> see ya 
13:35:18 <Quartus_> ciao!
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13:54:29 <Ray_work> Dr Quartus? Making house calls? Heck, come on by.
13:54:57 <Quartus_> heh.
13:55:11 <Ray_work> House sit for me will i'm in MA.
13:56:10 <Ray_work> OOH internent/irc vacation chain. Every body move over one, and spend your co-ordinated vacation in the house of someone in the chain, while they're on vacation.
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