00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.07.23 00:44:21 where's 0.12? 00:48:24 AI_coder: i've been told that that mindForth stuff is really nothing but in the mind of the author, unfortunately. I was hoping otherwise... 00:50:09 The author is supposed to be considered a real joke in the ai community. :( 00:50:42 * Raystm2 notes that genius is often unrecognised... 00:52:29 but the geniuses know 00:52:56 my mother missed the markers i evidenced when i was a young child 01:08:47 hi 01:08:54 hey 01:09:00 what do you think about CF cards? 01:09:23 we've never met 01:09:34 loop-hog - I like them. 01:09:34 ask in ##Linux 01:10:06 nobody has ever found that they stoped working because the wrote to them too much then? 01:10:32 that is an eventuality 01:10:39 read the card docs 01:10:47 it seems like there are enough producers, and that they are popular enough that you would always be able to feed your devices 01:11:09 lest the obvious be missed, they are not edible :) 01:11:23 :) you KNOW what I mean 01:11:38 heh 01:11:43 They are up to 8GB now 01:11:46 wow 01:11:57 * Quiznos gets a wee lil woody :) 01:12:03 mmm 8gb 01:12:11 I mean alwas be able to find them, if you lost yours that you were using for your device, like it fell behind the couch or something 01:12:16 i could do some damage with that 01:12:34 http://www.meritline.com/commemcarfor.html 01:13:01 Quiznos - the latest (last I checked) Zaurus have 6GB internal cards. 01:13:24 egselent 01:20:32 apperently the work with block, but I don't know how large the blocks are 01:28:53 bye 01:28:54 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("Leaving") 02:11:20 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@86.104.205.201) joined #forth 03:21:55 --- join: llama32 (n=zak@066.a.001.beg.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 03:22:32 crap, i just straced eforthl and it's slower than molasses 03:22:39 it writes one char at a time 03:23:48 ive got an old 386SX in my room, and i want to do something with it - i want something i can write things like a diary/organizer program for... what forth would be recommended? 03:24:17 llama you could setup a public or private wiki-server 03:24:24 or a file server 03:24:34 that doesnt need to be bleeding edge 03:24:43 use thttpd, 03:24:52 that's a lightweight user 03:25:03 retroforth has an httpd iinm 03:25:14 [ie, i need a forth that runs w/o an OS, is preferably quite efficient, and hopefully with any non-standard features well documented] 03:25:23 and thttpd can serve retro pages 03:25:27 oh 03:25:29 ok 03:25:31 enth 03:25:45 is a floopy bootin forth 03:25:52 ancient FIG too 03:25:56 i see 03:25:57 that boots 03:26:11 but you might have to adjst to use 3.5" flops 03:26:15 adjust fig that is 03:26:21 enth is still viable 03:26:34 google +forth +bootable 03:26:38 +forth +os 03:26:51 +enth of cours 03:27:18 start with enth 03:27:28 then retro, then a fig-forth 03:27:35 in that order 03:27:56 how's that? 03:29:16 ok thanks 03:29:22 yw 03:29:22 enth is one i haven't heard of 03:29:37 it's newer, a few years old afaik 03:29:41 hmm apparently colorforth is standalone 03:29:48 yea that too 03:29:58 and there are off-shoots to cf too 03:30:00 umm 03:30:02 called 03:30:04 lina 03:30:07 google that 03:30:58 ok thanks 03:31:01 yw 03:45:27 argh... colorforth and enth appear to require VESA and assume PCI and "newer" floppy drives 03:45:53 ok, what does your old box have? 03:46:07 look at lina now 03:49:20 well i'm guessing it's from about 1990... 386SX i think 50mhz, i think 4mb ram, ISA - no PCI... 03:49:29 ok :)- 03:50:02 actually... 03:50:11 colorforth might be it... im in the mood for asm hacking :) 04:04:28 cool 04:04:36 i'm hacking eforthl atm 04:07:27 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:07:39 re tat 04:07:55 hey 04:08:40 llama32: retro might be a better bet than colorforth... 04:09:09 i'm finding that eforth-linux is sensitive to changes in src that affect its assigned text and data segments 04:09:15 i'm disappointed. 04:09:24 :( 04:09:53 i'm seriously considering loading up binflat 04:11:18 binflat? 04:12:37 akin to .com DOS binaries; for linux; binfmt_aout and binfmt_elf are the two main binary formats; there's also a binfmt_misc 04:12:57 flat is not part of the kernel source tho 04:13:52 afai unnerstan aout and ELF formats, forth doesnt need anything they offer unless one is debugging their work 04:13:59 at the asm level 04:14:17 but it's easy to debug forth at its own level (ie, internally) 04:14:28 or it should be easy 04:16:02 tathi oh! and i straced eforthl and it's slower than molassas 04:16:13 eforth outputs ONE char at a time! 04:16:36 and kernel's write.2 does do any coalescing at all 04:19:14 heh 04:19:28 yeah, TYPE should really be a factor of EMIT, not the other way around 04:21:15 but i want to mung eforthl to be really linux-kernel saavy 04:21:31 so i need to rewrite _type in terms of write.2 04:21:42 so whole strings are transferred 04:21:48 instead of just 1char 04:22:01 er...how is it written now? 04:22:52 a : around emit 04:23:06 i'll change it to a code word 04:23:24 and it filters non-printables out 04:23:32 which i think i want to change 04:23:44 cuz that's hostile to 8but chars 04:23:52 and unicode, which is where i'm heading 04:24:49 huh 04:25:03 and ucs2 is 32bit, 1cell 04:25:20 utf8.7 04:25:36 how did you decide on eforth, anyway? 04:26:13 years ago when i was still on dos i hacked on it 04:26:42 i never got past win31 from dos. i went from dos to linux 04:27:07 yah, me neither 04:27:07 so there was no real learning curve for me transitioning 04:27:25 only I went dos > MacOS > linux :) 04:27:27 all those guists have a real problem; they want to boot to RL5 04:28:38 i have to change accept too 04:29:25 it's doing ``c SPC 127 within'' which is 8bit hostile too 04:31:06 I'll say the same thing to you as I did to llama32 -- you should consider retroforth :) 04:31:44 yea yea sure sure :) 04:32:14 can colorforth be put on a harddisk? 04:32:33 i think some version of it can be hosted 04:32:54 or would you assign a whole machine to it? 04:33:21 Chuck's version only works from a floppy 04:33:34 I don't think anyone has quite gotten an IDE version working 04:33:50 iv'e seen ide code for some forth i dont remember which 04:33:53 a whole machine, I have the opportunity here todo that 04:33:57 driver 04:34:27 so boot from flop and (oh, the driver was only one block of code) 04:34:35 Quiznos: that was probably colorforth 04:34:42 mayhaps 04:34:46 though I've heard several people say that code really isn't good for much 04:35:07 (well, there is an example "1-block IDE driver" on colorforth.com) 04:35:18 yea and that which i saw deactivated interrupts which i found to be truly strange 04:35:21 FUCKING KDE... trying to open tar files with the text editor wtf!? 04:35:27 lol 04:35:33 llama32 goto ##Linux for assist 04:35:46 lol 04:35:51 non-sequiter! 04:35:59 OT!!! OT!!! OT!!! 04:38:59 >char is also hostile 04:40:31 ew there's an "hlt" in the eforthl src!!! 04:40:32 ew 04:40:43 killed 04:42:03 well compiling retroforth native didn't work... immediately... grub.asm: "../drivers/end.forth" file not found... 04:42:16 and it's not there... 04:42:24 huh. 04:42:29 which version? 04:43:12 oh... I think crc said 9.2.0 native isn't finished yet 04:47:06 could somebody tell the guys at intelasys, that a under construction page where before was a page is idiotic and not increasing their image? 04:47:50 I'm sure they're very concerned about your opinion. 04:47:55 this is 9.0.1 or something like that... it mentioned that it is one of the only versions that works native or something 04:48:46 wah, I hate that, why are they such fucking idiots? they have a nice idea, a nice microcontroller and then they fool the fascinated ones like me. *grml* 04:49:25 virl then crack it and fix it for them :) 04:49:50 llama32: oh. sorry about that, I thought it would just work 04:50:10 I'm not interested in cracking anything, except specs. 04:50:28 then dont complain if you dont wanna fix anything ;) 04:51:37 tathi i need to forthify errno and strerror.3 04:51:48 cracking isn't fixing Quiznos 04:51:59 bah 04:52:06 two separate activities 05:00:16 afk bbs 05:49:56 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 06:38:35 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool74-49.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:39:03 --- quit: llama32 ("Leaving") 06:40:19 grr... missed llama32 :( 06:40:39 * crc forgot to upload a patch to the 9.1.1 source tree that fixes that bug 06:41:48 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 07:36:23 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection) 07:37:39 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-151-197-229-145.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 07:41:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 07:42:02 moanin folks 07:42:11 good morning 07:58:51 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 08:19:40 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 08:58:13 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection) 08:59:10 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-151-197-229-145.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 09:00:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 09:06:02 ok, they moved to another location I think. iirc. it was intelasys.net, now they changed to intellasys.net 09:10:21 crap i need to figer out how to write the running kernel to a new bunary 09:11:12 ok take a look at this: 09:11:19 3 line flood 09:11:33 cat /proc/15512/maps 09:11:36 oops 09:11:37 heh 09:11:41 08048000-0804d000 rwxp 00000000 03:41 274150 /usr/local/src/lang/eforthl/eforth 09:11:41 0804d000-08148000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 09:11:41 bffff000-c0000000 rwxp 00000000 00:00 0 09:11:58 that's eforth with separated heads 09:12:08 or separate text and data 09:12:29 my life would be so much easier if they were combined 09:12:47 or 09:12:54 i could write out 3 files 09:13:03 wait 09:13:08 that's only one used segment 09:21:07 any clues yet on the above? 09:24:18 what's the question? 09:24:51 i wanna unexec the running binary 09:26:07 kill -9 :) 09:26:29 pff 09:26:32 i'm -9 you 09:26:37 then i'll -15 you 09:26:38 :) 09:26:39 so what's the trouble? 09:26:45 i wanna unexec() 09:26:47 09:26:51 * Quiznos fusses 09:26:55 heh 09:27:20 * Quiznos practices throwing a tantrum 09:27:52 how about you ask a question that's not totally vague instead? 09:28:03 what part of saving out the running kernel don't you understand how to do? 09:28:10 "unexec" is not vague 09:28:28 linux doesnt make it easy from what i've been reading 09:28:43 and I have been googling on that keyword 09:28:55 lunch, bbiab 09:29:05 * Quiznos has abandonment issews 09:29:10 lol 09:43:08 ok, back 09:44:04 so...you're running eforth (an ELF binary) and you want to save it out as another ELF file? 09:50:49 not easy 09:50:55 but isforth does it 09:51:02 it's not so hard 09:51:54 you definitely have the ELF file header, and probably whatever program (segment) headers your linker put in. 09:52:09 the section headers are (I think) usually at the end, but you don't need those under Linux 09:54:30 the nuisance part is figuring out where the linker put everything so you can get things in the same place in your binary. 09:59:39 not aalways possible 09:59:53 what if the section headers were overwritten with newly compiled code 10:00:02 you have to create your own section headers etc 10:00:22 true, but as I said, you don't need section headers under Linux 10:00:33 you do if you want to debug the binary with gdb 10:00:45 you even have to put in the totally optional strings section for that 10:00:51 but gdb is braindead anyway 10:01:18 oh, right, I forgot about gdb 10:01:29 Linux on PPC is so much more sane than x86 :) 10:01:40 wtf i just got a message telling me i cant get a message from an unregged user lol 10:01:52 gdb doesn't require sections here 10:01:54 i didnt try /msg anyone loll 10:02:20 gdb is braindead everywhere. its absolutely the worst debugger i ever used 10:02:26 even worse than nec emulators 10:02:40 it refuses to display whats on the stack because "thers no stack frame that i know about" 10:02:44 FUCK stack frames 10:02:51 just show me wtf is on the stack 10:02:52 lol 10:03:53 * PoppaVic rotfls 10:04:13 ald isnt too bad but its incomplete 10:04:20 talk to amca about stackframes 10:04:25 tho he did just make some unreleased changes to it for me 10:04:37 stack frames are a C ism 10:04:39 I keep thinking of them as contexts 10:05:16 I440r: nope, they are asm-CALL based. C just uses the shit outta' them 10:05:30 interrupts and handlers use them as well 10:06:39 I440r: if you ask amca, expect a LOT of noise about yer specifications and docs 10:07:31 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0535.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 10:07:47 ? 10:07:57 hiya I440r :) 10:07:59 noise about MY documentation ? 10:08:01 hi tbw :) 10:08:20 I440r: nm, it's been rough talking with him - I'm hoping he finds a new target ;-/ 10:09:30 I440r: envision a kid that refuses to read source, in order, or the idea of experimenting with access and structs - and demanding docs and specs. 10:09:37 ..noncontrib 10:10:17 At the least, a hacqueer would at least provide a dumbass solution. 10:10:42 done well, an alternative or PORTABLE solution. 10:10:49 isforths documentation needs alot of work 10:11:14 I440r: docs should always reflect the state of the package, I agree. 10:11:59 but, writing a spec sorta' expects a lot of drones to obey the goals and API.. When dicking with those, it's sorta' futile. 10:12:35 im not writing a specification. ill write how things work later 10:12:53 my forth is still very much in flux so documentation is guaranteed to slip 10:14:51 yeppers. 10:15:34 Interfaces are slippery. It's a world of diff to task a few drones to write an api and imp for "This Thing" 10:15:59 ...nice to know you even NEEDED "a thing" 10:16:28 I440r: and folks will argue the above endlessly. 10:17:05 I suspect asm-heads are even worse about than c-ers 10:17:43 (what regs are in use, for what, why? their names, uses, free, etc) 10:28:08 I440r: even worse is someplace that feels "there are no regs" and yer working from the stack(s). 10:30:08 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:31:39 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool75-112.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 10:37:12 --- join: Serg_Penguin (i=Serg_Pen@ppp85-140-29-49.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 10:46:55 serg! ltns! 10:51:42 back. 10:51:44 tathi 10:55:47 ya? 10:56:02 i read what you wrote after lunch 10:56:12 is that any help at all? 10:56:20 base on that i'm thinking that i have to byte the bullet 10:57:03 but i'm not fully understanding the headers that linux doesnt use; or should i just go with what linuxassembly does 10:57:13 and be done with it? 10:57:21 IIRC the linuxassembly stuff is pretty good 10:57:25 yea 10:57:38 ELF has sort of two parts; it's the Executable and Linking Format 10:57:45 yea 10:57:54 program or segment headers are all you really need for an executable 10:57:59 section headers are for linking 10:58:02 ok 10:58:06 or debugging 10:58:42 so on Linux, if you don't use any libraries (just syscalls), you can get away without the section headers. 10:58:45 well, per the debug thread above, i'll be debugging at the forth level 10:58:58 I thought that might be the case 10:59:02 yea 11:02:10 ok so,... 11:02:30 tathi wait, what about the ``without headers''? 11:02:37 those are for lib-linkage only? 11:03:49 er...you talking about forth headers? 11:03:58 no, elf headers 11:04:26 ok, section headers, yeah. 11:05:07 hehehe 11:05:45 ELF has the main header which goes at the start of the file -- it tells what type of file and where in the file the other elf headers are. 11:05:54 right 11:06:10 Then there are the program headers -- they tell which parts of the file get loaded into memory 11:06:14 so with a one seg binfile, only one seg header is needed 11:06:17 and where and with what permissions 11:06:21 yeah. 11:06:21 kk 11:06:35 from that memory map you posted, it looks like you might want two. 11:06:37 yea, i'll study linuxassembly some more; i do like what they're doin 11:06:51 C pendants are tossing baby and water eschewing asm 11:06:59 heh 11:07:08 and GNU/FSF is the worst offender 11:07:21 C is perfectly good at what it does 11:07:24 sure 11:07:28 it just doesn't do some things 11:07:32 but it's not for making fast code 11:07:51 and gnu's c isnt even true to the standard 11:08:05 really? 11:08:25 gnu implemented their flavor of c 11:08:32 it's just another sect :) 11:08:34 lol 11:08:36 yeah, it goes beyond the standard 11:08:41 lcc, icc, tcc, compaq, etc 11:08:43 I didn't realize that it disagreed with it much though 11:08:52 no, i'm not implying that 11:08:56 oh, ok. 11:09:12 i'm just saying it's not in complete agreement with the standard 11:09:15 and that's alloweed too 11:09:21 yeah, sure. 11:09:32 but people shouldnt think that it's ``true to std'' 11:09:47 liberties, in fact, have to be taken depending on the host platform 11:09:53 it's to be expected 11:10:03 * PoppaVic chortles 11:10:21 if you have a copy of the origina K&R white book, it's even said so in there 11:10:37 tathi: it's been fun, the last few months, to watch the authors - must be coursework. 11:10:50 PoppaVic: what authors? 11:11:08 tathi: it's been pandemic in ##C and in #forth 11:11:12 K&R C is dated...supported by some C compiler, but would be flagged as such 11:11:15 Kernighan and Richie 11:11:31 PoppaVic: sorry, what has been pandemic? 11:11:41 pandemic? lol 11:11:45 ah, never mind, I don't really care 11:11:49 heh 11:11:56 tathi: indeed 11:15:05 Quiznos: is this (http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/eforth.html) the eforthl that you're messing with? 11:17:00 oh, there's one on linuxassembly also 11:17:11 what one? 11:17:17 oh i see it 11:17:20 yea, eforthl 11:17:37 well, gotta go...bye all 11:17:40 nite 11:17:56 :) 11:18:00 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 11:32:42 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 11:33:16 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:06:42 --- join: vatic (n=charlest@pool-162-83-254-201.ny5030.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:46:22 --- part: crc left #forth 14:59:15 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-151-197-229-145.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:59:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 15:35:38 --- join: silvousplait (n=trip_n_s@pool-151-196-119-107.balt.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:38:41 --- quit: silvousplait (Client Quit) 16:07:29 --- quit: tattrdkat ("bah") 16:12:04 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 16:44:18 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:47:19 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-151-197-229-145.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:47:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 16:47:47 there's a bit out of place crc 16:47:59 sorry :) 16:48:12 dont let it happen agin 16:48:14 :)- 16:49:01 : crc ." oops, the check failed!" bye ; 16:53:12 --- quit: ayrnieu ("Lost terminal") 17:30:17 --- quit: ianp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:52:16 --- quit: vatic ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]") 18:37:57 --- join: ayrnieu (i=julian@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/ayrnieu) joined #forth 18:51:59 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:03:37 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 19:03:40 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-224-199.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:35:39 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-142-230.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:42:36 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 19:42:42 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 20:15:46 --- join: asymptote (n=weldon@c-69-140-76-5.hsd1.va.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:26:10 --- join: ttuttle (n=tom@unaffiliated/ttuttle) joined #forth 20:26:14 Hey. 20:26:25 Hey ttuttle. 20:27:07 Quartus: /me's laptop is continuing to explode. One of the wires to the power button is broken (there's a little connector going between two PCB's, and the corner is broken off of it), and the hard drive is on the fritz again, and the hinge is continuing to self-destruct. :-b 20:27:24 Quartus: But /me wants it to last just a little longer. 20:28:22 Well, good luck to /you with /that. 20:28:30 lol. 20:28:56 On the positive side, I've been keeping very good backups lately. (My entire filesystem is mirrored many times daily to another machine.) 20:29:38 Sounds prudent. 20:29:54 Yeah. 20:35:41 --- quit: k4jcw (Remote closed the connection) 20:42:48 --- join: snowrichard (i=snowrich@adsl-69-155-177-157.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:42:50 hi 20:43:22 snowrichard: Hi. 20:43:34 just got my Vonage hooked up 20:43:51 snowrichard: Nice. 20:44:37 because I'm going to be moving soon and the new place is outside of the range of dsl, and I'll be getting wireless internet so I will save on the phone connection. 20:46:35 so what's going on in forth? 20:46:59 snowrichard: I'm complaining about my broken laptop, PoppaVic is pleasantly absent; otherwise, I dunno. 20:47:18 Poppa can be irritating at times I guess. 20:47:38 snowrichard: Times? Like any time when IRC is up and he's on it? ;-) 20:48:03 100 Mg of Zoloft makes it easier I guess. 20:48:20 snowrichard: For him or for us? 20:48:27 I'm taking the zoloft 20:48:32 snowrichard: Ah. 20:48:42 and Zyprexa 20:48:52 snowrichard: Just for PoppaVic? 20:49:17 no I'm diagnosed as schizophrenic after a head injury in 1981 20:49:31 Ah. Sorry to hear it. 20:49:43 made it impossible to get a job 20:50:02 PoppaVic remains undiagnosed. 20:50:27 lol Quartus 20:50:38 Quartus: He's got old-geezer-sysadmin syndrome. You spend your entire life ranting about how things were "back in the day". ;-) 20:51:03 He's 46. He doesn't qualify for 'old-geezer' anything. 20:51:05 is that why I have an IBM 370 MVS system install on my linux box? 20:51:13 snowrichard: No. 20:51:22 I'm 49 20:51:30 Quartus: I know. That's why it's a disease--because he abnormally acts like an old geezer when he's not. 20:51:47 snowrichard, that means you have 3 years more right to 'old-geezer' status than PV. 20:52:30 * ttuttle thinks there should be a tournament in #forth to see who's worked on the oldest and most resource-limited system. Then we can decide who is truly a geezer. 20:52:40 back when I was in college were still on the punchcards. They didn't put in the terminals till I started again after the navy. 20:52:48 KIM-1 ? 20:52:50 snowrichard: Cool. 20:53:15 9.1K ram 1MHZ 6502 20:53:21 snowrichard: I wanted to grow up in the punchcard era. I want to be able to dump piles of bits on my computer teachers. ;-) 20:53:28 It was a mistake for me to worry about speed so early on in my implementation of the ICFP VM. Also, to worry about the cost of spitting out lots of diagnostics. Ah, I feel pretty foolish. 20:54:00 seem to remember a proverb about get it working then make it fast 20:54:04 * ttuttle is going to bed, and running a backup first. 20:54:14 snowrichard: I remember quartus telling me that all the time when he was helping me! 20:54:25 --- quit: ttuttle ("leaving") 20:55:08 ayrnieu what is this VM anyway? 20:55:41 snowrichard - http://icfpcontest.org/task.shtml , with spec and codex and sandbench. 20:56:01 it's archeology, basically. 20:59:58 Faux archeology. 21:00:00 that's cute 21:00:07 read some of the spec 21:00:46 have you looked at Knuth's MMIX machine? 21:01:13 they supposedly have it in the GCC now 21:01:27 Neat. 21:02:53 I recently downloaded the 370 POM (the Principle of Operations manual) 21:04:54 The old IBM crate? 21:07:17 yeah IBM 21:07:28 I've got a hercules simulator for it 21:07:41 Ah. 21:08:09