00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.07.07 00:00:23 Last question for now: does anyone know, how all those 00:00:23 strings "86yan04py" were maintained actuall? 00:00:28 What a tool? 00:01:15 Quartus: ANDIF does && 00:01:47 So now you agree that Forth does have short-cut evaluations? 00:02:55 "I can add it" is not the same as "it is there". 00:06:40 It is in fact there, as you could express it in terms of repeated '0= if exit then' clauses, though defining it as && or equivalent is clearly the better way to go. 00:52:19 So it's not an addition, it's a named factoring, which is what Forth is all about. 00:53:23 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("Leaving") 02:02:51 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:12:36 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-12-134.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 03:37:59 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 03:57:18 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-136.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:15:16 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:54:10 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 05:10:06 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-206.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:50:32 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 05:57:43 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 06:39:21 --- quit: guaumiau ("Abandonando") 06:53:24 grr. I really don't understand why LITERAL is an immediate word. 06:54:03 hehe 06:54:23 you have to write POSTPONE LITERAL if you're writing a compiling word 06:54:39 I faked it, but I know what you mean. 06:54:48 and [ compute a number ] LITERAL isn't any better than [ compute a number LITERAL ] 06:55:13 I know - I did the former the other day 06:57:44 oh well. it's not too hard to fix 06:57:51 : literal postpone literal ; 06:57:55 should work, I think. 06:58:18 how about literal, 06:58:36 hmm, yeah 06:59:10 that would make sense, since the standard renamed compile to compile, 06:59:37 I've stared at your fovm stuff for days and days, and I think it's sorta' a useful DIRECTION. I keep pondering what essentials we really need for the CORE and the C interface. 06:59:40 err, not renamed 07:00:02 renamed is fine, I knew what you meant - commies do it all the time. 07:01:45 tathi: part of all our issues are the assorted std names/name-scheme and the other part is implementation 07:02:15 ..and a lot of that suggests the underlying issues of machine-expectations. 07:02:26 It's.... interesting 07:03:27 btw, the following is something I found and am cogitating - for ABOVE the C "primitives/machine": http://ldeniau.home.cern.ch/ldeniau/html/oopc/oopc.html 07:05:10 It doesn't make my heart beat faster, but - it seems to cover a lot of issues I am seeing with the Metabuilder layer. (discounting mechanics) 07:29:30 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 07:30:08 LITERAL is immediate to facilititate things like : foo [ 3 5 + ] literal ; 07:30:28 You aren't in compiliation state inside [ and ]. 07:30:31 yep, did that the other day 07:30:44 BUT, I believe "literal," is a better name. 07:35:43 Quartus: does it matter if you're not in compilation state? 07:35:56 you can use COMPILE, whenever, AFAIK... 07:36:22 this is where I start to get bugged by the core 07:38:05 Yeah, there's nothing *big* that I dislike about the standard, but there are lots of little things that annoy me, and it kind of adds up. 07:39:36 yeppers 07:40:14 But I suppose it's easy enough to provide a compatibility mode for those who want it. 07:41:09 what would you call it? "inflexible mode"? 07:41:11 well, I presume you mean for ANS? 07:42:25 heh 07:42:53 just put it in a file, ans.fs or something, and have people load it before their standard programs 07:42:57 or something 07:43:50 tathi: I think that too many things are too generalist might be the baseline-issue. 07:44:44 christ, we got folks that respect ascii textfiles, and others want it all utf8, and otherswant xml or.... 07:44:46 PoppaVic: that's not my beef with it 07:44:56 then doze/dos/unix, too 07:45:40 I kad a feeling you meant a sourcefile - but, now, see above and try to see what I get even more peeved about ;-) 07:47:22 IMO the things you "get even more peeved about" are pretty nonsensical :) 07:47:36 tathi: I have begun to honestly believe that forths idea of "reload the source" is fine. It seems as fast as anything else, and is certainly "contextual" 07:48:18 cool 07:48:32 tathi: not really.. There are folks that want the world to use unicode, too - not wchar_t, either.. I can see what they mean, but it's not our "space" 07:48:37 "Reload the source, Luke" 07:48:52 yeppers - and then into the "Matrix" series 07:49:15 aka: "Reality! (What a concept!)" ;-) 08:06:48 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:09:37 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 08:11:36 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 08:20:41 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@69-168-231-199.bflony.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:20:49 rehi hullew 08:57:17 tathi, in a naive implementation it may not matter that you're not in compilation state. I'm not sure that you can use COMPILE, just anywhere, I'd need to review the semantics. 08:58:03 ah. I didn't realize there were implementation strategies where it would matter. 08:58:17 COMPILE, doesn't have defined interpretation semantics. 08:59:21 hehe 09:00:04 So [ ' yadda compile, ] working would be implementation-dependent. It's likely to work quite a few places. [ 5 literal ] might work too. 09:00:08 But not portably. 09:04:40 Unless otherwise specified in an "Interpretation:" section of the glossary entry, the interpretation semantics of a Forth definition are its execution semantics. 09:04:43 what about that? 09:04:58 compile, has an interpretation: section. 09:05:02 It's undefined. 09:05:15 oh. so it does, sorry 09:05:53 --- join: PoppaVic1 (n=pete@0-2pool236-39.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:05:55 : literal, postpone literal ; immediate : foo [ 5 literal, ] . ; works 09:06:08 works in gforth, that is. Gets around the compile-only flag that is on literal. 09:06:11 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 09:06:41 --- nick: PoppaVic1 -> PoppaVic 09:10:40 --- quit: Quiznos ("BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.") 10:42:07 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 12:02:06 --- join: saon_ (i=1000@c-71-199-235-144.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:04:51 --- quit: nighty (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:07:23 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:15:15 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@66-163-28-100.ip.tor.radiant.net) joined #forth 12:17:16 --- join: ideogram (n=adam@astound-66-234-215-157.ca.astound.net) joined #forth 12:17:47 --- part: ideogram left #forth 13:04:09 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 13:18:36 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 13:30:25 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 14:26:08 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 15:17:33 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 15:17:37 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-143-174.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:25:59 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:26:09 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 16:37:34 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-128-037.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:51:17 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:03:56 --- nick: segher_ -> segher 17:10:24 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:19:36 --- join: tattrdkat (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 17:33:08 --- quit: virsys (Connection timed out) 17:36:23 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 17:44:20 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 17:50:15 --- quit: tattrdkat (Connection timed out) 17:58:30 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:50:43 --- quit: slava () 18:59:07 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 18:59:11 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-234-202.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:17:34 http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=070706H # reasons to support France's chances in the World Cup 19:57:11 freekin hey i got signals working in isforth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:24:57 well ok, i had some help doing the debugging (about 3 hours of strace crap lol) but the signal handling now works perfectly 20:26:17 and i have a SINGLE signal handler for all user defined signals in the same way i have a single syscall handler for all syscalls :) 22:17:10 --- join: tattrdkat (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 22:27:57 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.07.07