00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.07.04 00:12:17 --- part: LOOP-HOG left #forth 00:52:04 --- quit: JasonWoof ("switching computers") 01:12:41 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 02:50:07 so, yesterday my question about [compile] got buried in the discussion 02:50:59 what question did you ask? 02:52:43 Repeat, please. I was absent. 02:53:37 oh, 18:12 < michaelw> what happens if I use [compile] on non-immediate words? 02:53:51 no idea. I never use [COMPILE] 02:55:13 In FIG Forth it compiles a word. 02:55:33 [COMPILE] is used to break immediacy. 02:56:25 yes, i gathered that, basically : [compile] compile ; immediate, right? 02:56:32 [COMPILE] forces compilation of word, which could possibly 02:56:32 be interpreted in case it's immediate. 02:57:37 hmm, then i don't get why postpone is needed 02:58:32 Well. 02:59:13 When you "[COMPILE] IF", all brances go into word being defined. 02:59:50 When you "[COMPILE] DUP", "DUP" goes into defining word, 02:59:51 not the word being defined. 03:00:41 so, : foo [compile] dup ; is the same as : foo dup ; ? 03:00:44 When you "POSTPONE", everything goes into latter. 03:00:53 ayrnieu: yes. 03:01:58 Just to be sure, is my wording correct? 03:02:07 asau - yes, it makes sense. 03:02:30 I feel it's rather complex construction, I'm not sure if I 03:02:31 express it properly. 03:03:20 POSTPONE makes ever more sense. You only use [COMPILE] 's perfectly useless behavior when applied to non-immediate words. 03:03:36 you only lose that, rather. 03:05:00 : compile STATE @ bl parse STATE on evaluate STATE ! ; immediate , right? 03:12:05 --- join: Cheery (n=Henri@a81-197-12-134.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 03:18:58 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 03:19:37 "Don't ever frighten a bureaucrat -- the only safety it knows lies with strict comformance to the bureaucracy you wish it to more flexibly interpret." 03:21:31 ayrnieu: I don't know, if your definition of COMPILE is 03:21:32 equivalent to known to me, I go into thinking mode. 03:22:02 I can't even say, if it does smth. useful. 03:22:30 the COMPILE I said there just EVALUATE 's the next word with STATE temporarily set to compilation-mode 03:23:02 ayrnieu: I'm able to understand code. 03:23:15 It's not the one which is ununderstandible. 03:23:46 OK ;-/ -- the code's all I meant. But I can see that I'm wrong, nevermind. 03:25:03 Let's consider COMPILE IF in your sense of COMPILE 03:25:36 COMPILE reads IF, sets STATE and EVALUATE. 03:25:57 --- join: jocke123 (n=kalle111@194.22.57.149) joined #forth 03:26:04 my COMPILE is just [COMPILE] , I think. 03:26:09 If it is used in definition, IF compiles brances into this definition. 03:26:15 ...branches... 03:26:42 So, this COMPILE IF is equivalent to IF 03:29:08 No, it is not [COMPILE] 03:29:39 er, right. 03:29:57 The only use of your COMPILE is in this context: 03:30:21 : a-word ... [ ... COMPILE smth ... ] ... ; 03:30:46 which is equivalent to 03:30:59 : a-word ... [ ... ] smth [ ... ] ... ; 03:32:46 --- quit: tattrdkat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:40:42 --- part: jocke123 left #forth 03:56:34 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:02:39 --- join: chris2 (n=chris@p549D3E92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:04:29 I just ran across a Perlis quote that made me think of PoppaVic :) 04:04:39 Every reader should ask himself periodically "Toward what end, toward what end?" -- but do not ask it too often lest you pass up the fun of programming for the constipation of bittersweet philosophy. 04:10:55 lol 04:12:31 hm, I guess I'll curl up with Thinking Forth 04:13:28 tathi, which perlis quote? 04:13:51 the one tathi just said, I'd think. 04:14:10 so that after.. 04:14:30 you need to read chronologically, virl :_) 04:15:00 haha .. >:-( 04:17:36 04:14 < arke> MAX_INT was in which header? BasL 04:17:40 04:14 < mauke> none BazziR 04:17:43 04:14 < twkm> arke: where's your book? 04:17:43 * arke explodes 04:18:36 explodes? 04:22:26 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:26:16 --- join: ASau (n=user@home-pool-170-3.com2com.ru) joined #forth 04:43:10 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:48:16 ##C again? 04:50:10 arke: where's your grep? ;) 04:52:26 zou know 04:52:37 its much quicker to type 2 lines in a C channel asking a question 04:52:54 and much quicker to type limits.h than "wheres your book" 04:53:55 maybe twkm has a macro for "where's your book?", it's universally applicable :) 04:54:13 maybe it's a bot :) 04:55:14 no, twkm definetely isnt a bot :) 04:57:40 --- quit: Zymurgy (Remote closed the connection) 05:07:32 only a stupid person... hihi 05:10:50 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool236-157.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:24:02 --- quit: chris2 ("Leaving") 06:12:06 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 06:56:56 does isforth support HIDEing a word? 06:57:14 what does HIDE do? 06:57:27 the opposite of REVEAL 06:57:59 i wonder when that is actually needed 06:58:59 REVEAL is needed so that i can write FOO in terms of a previously defined word FOO, I guess 06:59:10 glue code perhaps? 06:59:12 well, that's normal. 06:59:29 : foo 1 ; : foo foo . ; 07:00:13 yeah, but i was wondering which situation requires HIDE 07:01:21 er, OK, what does REVEAL do? I remember that it had something to do with the dictionary, but ANS doesn't define it and gforth's manual references it once without defining it 07:02:15 it makes the last-started word findable 07:03:50 oh, right. Did you just make up the name of HIDE , then? I remember that there was some other word, STAIN or TOUCH or RUB or somesuch that the compiler uses to prevent compilation of a word whilst adding that word to the dictionary. 07:03:52 I'm asking myself how that should work not defining the dictionary. 07:04:33 ayrnieu: dunno, i though i saw it somewhere 07:04:38 that actually reduces the power of code, imho. 07:05:14 virl: care to explain? 07:05:27 michaelw - virl is talking about ANS. 07:07:36 ayrnieu: it's called SMUDGE 07:07:58 and it does _both_ REVEAL and "HIDE" 07:08:07 it's an xor 07:08:17 ah, thanks. I'd just remembered that, but gforth doesn't have it -- or doesn't have it visible. 07:08:59 doesn't have it afaik 07:09:12 when you don't define the dictionary then you can't do such words like 'words' 07:25:00 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 07:25:05 --- join: Quiznos (i=1000@69-168-231-199.bflony.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:25:09 what is the forth word corresponding to C's contiue statement? 07:25:27 continue 07:25:46 quiznos - pretend that we don't know C at all and ask the question again, please. 07:26:25 in c's while loop, one can continue back to the top of the loop with `continue'; what is the correponding forth word that does the same? 07:26:55 Forth has no such word , although you can make one by various means. 07:27:04 hmm 07:27:16 generally, you don't need to do this. 07:27:23 ayrnieu no fundamental word provides for a restart of loop? 07:28:34 no, no predefined word that randomly restarts a loop. You can, however, make a ANS Forth continue with CS-ROLL / CS-PICK (although I haven't ever tried to do such a thing) 07:28:43 ok ty 07:29:21 curiously, can you show us what you have so far? This loop where you've a CONTINUE where you'd want that. 07:29:50 i'm messin with smallc, add a forth code generator 07:29:52 adding 07:30:16 as a replacement for the assembler output 07:33:12 any other questions? 07:33:36 well, my question was for code :-/ 07:34:10 i dont have a working smallc compiler yet but i'm close 07:34:32 : foo begin 2 . [ 0 cs-pick ] again 1 . again ; <-- prints 2 endlessly 07:34:41 ok 07:35:55 but there's no nice general way to do that; probably you only want to CONTINUE after some logic has deepened the CS stack, where you'd have to 1 CS-PICK to get the BEGIN from within an IF , and whatnot. 07:36:05 i've restricted the forth-words to standard math, standard comparison, if, while, var, const, : ; 07:36:33 oh, you're implementing a Forth, and only wanted to know if you needed to implement a CONTINUE ? 07:36:35 and a couple of others, 46 in total 07:37:04 no, it's the other way, Smallc compiler translates c to a simple forth 07:37:12 Quiznos - http://www.forth.org/literature/forthlev.html 07:37:18 ok 07:37:19 ty 07:37:24 AGAIN is like "continue" 07:37:48 segher_ can there be multiple again's in a single loop? 07:37:54 well, no, continue; in C acts from anywhere in the loop. AGAIN is like the closing brace 07:37:57 if you use cs-pick 07:37:58 begin while again again? 07:38:03 ok 07:38:30 well, i'm still developing, so it's in flux 07:38:39 most systems have YET and BUT as nice shorthands for the most common usages of cs-roll and cs-pick btw 07:39:17 k 07:39:37 well, i rather dont care for the ANSI model. 07:40:05 : foo ( n -- ) begin dup . 1- dup abs 10 > if negate [ 1 cs-pick ] again then again ; 07:40:27 its porpose is too similar with ~rms's making everything portable at the expense of some required things and abilities. 07:40:40 ayrnieu kk 07:40:41 5 FOO \ prints out ... 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9 -10 11 10 9 8 7 ... 07:41:02 : foo BEGIN dup . 1- dup abs 10 > IF negate THEN AGAIN ; 07:41:14 yeah, yeah. 07:41:22 well really 07:41:39 10 > -1 * * 07:41:43 you don't _want_ complicated control structures 07:41:48 correct 07:42:03 true isn't -1 necessarily 07:42:20 but one think is that i want to increase the density of the code translated into forth 07:42:31 that's a longer term idea 07:43:19 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:43:58 quiznos: you don't want to shorten the code by obfuscating it, i hope 07:44:08 segher - no, but my programs have an environmental dependency on two's-complement 07:44:22 ayrnieu: fine then 07:44:50 my retort is wrong for other reasons :-) 07:44:54 segher_ correct, obfuscation is not the porpose 07:45:26 not the purpose of course -- but not the means either, was my point 07:45:49 quiznos - it seems a bit silly, to compile C to a Forth that doesn't exist. 07:45:51 i am wanting to maintain the smallness of smallc's characteristic flavor 07:46:24 ayrnieu i'll write xlator to asm or plain binary 07:48:28 and i'm thinking that some forth words can be left out and use 0= to reverse the flag the remaining words leave 07:48:41 but that's for later optimizing 07:49:18 forthlev should help you 07:49:44 ok i'll look at that 07:50:48 Haydon's done good work. thanks, i'll enjoy reading that 07:51:15 ayrnieu do you happen to have copies of old RIT Forth meetings? 07:51:25 the printables they made? 07:51:58 no, sorry. I suddenly rememember ancient transcripts from some BBS-type thing, though. 07:52:17 do you have those? 07:52:22 to share? 07:57:03 ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Archive/talk/ 07:57:16 kk 08:08:17 --- quit: virl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:18:27 --- join: ttuttle (n=tom@unaffiliated/ttuttle) joined #forth 08:18:31 Quiznos: hey 08:19:01 Quiznos: whoops 08:19:04 Quartus: hey 08:19:07 Quiznos: no offense ;-) 08:19:48 Tab completion... the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems. 08:20:01 Robert: lol 08:20:03 ttuttle !! 08:20:07 Quiznos: Quiznos !! 08:20:17 Robert [tab] i wish 08:20:24 i could use vocal macros 08:21:06 Quartus: You here? 08:22:20 shuttle launch 1438h 08:22:42 Which time zone is that? 08:22:47 EDT 08:22:49 Fla. 08:23:00 * Robert fires up NASA TV. 08:39:40 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 08:50:50 --- join: zpg (n=user@81-179-106-227.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 09:11:13 --- quit: ttuttle ("leaving") 09:16:51 --- join: chris2 (n=chris@p549D3E92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 09:19:22 --- quit: guaumiau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:20:20 --- join: guaumiau (n=guaumiau@r200-125-8-6-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 09:24:54 Hey all. 09:24:58 Q 09:27:05 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool75-137.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:27:15 hey Vic 09:27:37 Howdy 09:27:56 gawdamn it's hot out... 09:28:56 correction - it's hot as usual, but the humidity is waaay too high 09:31:46 * zpg melts into a puddle 09:32:38 thank bog (and Ma') for central air 09:33:11 "between the pope and air conditioning, i'll take air conditioning" 09:33:18 amen 09:33:37 that's Allen btw. 09:33:43 And, that friggin' hospital must use swamp-coolers - it was as humid as outside 09:33:46 (from Deconstructing Harry) 09:34:00 close the windows and pull the blinds down and turn a box fan on low; you'll be comfortable 09:34:25 so -- i'm having a little difficulty assessing ability of so-called 'Plain Forth' to provide a flexible and productive environment for me. this essentially boils down to one thing: data (structures). 09:34:27 I try to stay in the basement anyway 09:34:39 yeppers 09:34:51 you need the extension wordsets for structs or OO 09:35:16 --- quit: crc (Remote closed the connection) 09:35:48 bsaements are good if there's plenty of cold stone to cool the air and proper source of incoming air into the space 09:35:57 zpg: keep reminding yerself that Forth was usually the first language on foreign hardware - for years ;-) 09:36:17 no sir - I do not want airflow in - it's hot and wet outside 09:36:21 zpg - a flexible and productive environment for you and what? 09:36:39 --- join: crc (n=crc@pdpc/supporter/active/crc) joined #forth 09:36:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 09:36:40 I want to extract every bit of heat into the walls and floor. 09:37:01 zpg - also, if you've questions about data structures, please ask them. It's easier to answer questions than to provide propaganda. 09:39:31 zpg: which variant are you suffering? 09:40:02 variant? 09:40:15 well, the package - each forth is a variant. 09:41:01 closest thing to "standard" is ANS - and even that seems to vary 09:41:03 ayrnieu: well, this is just a general impression after trowelling the newgroups. i've got a couple of linguistics projects kicking around that are currently implemented using lists of strings (indexable, though this isn't quite as important). so usually when looking for flexibility i try and write a core 'parody' of an existing project to see how it compares. 09:41:19 --- quit: Snoopy42 (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:41:21 ahh 09:41:22 PoppaVic: hacking in gforth; ficl, kforth also installed. 09:41:28 concept-proofs 09:41:30 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-149-135.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:41:51 yeah, I got ficl to work ok, and gforth seems to work well. Never got PFE to build 09:42:13 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-149-135.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 09:43:17 indeed. 09:43:51 unfortunately, I have a few "issues" with both - but gforth is a handy interactive-tool, anyway 09:43:58 one such project was written in bad C (my self-implemented list-code was sucky); later, refactored into smalltalk and developed extensively. recently protyped in python with positive results. 09:44:18 yeah, i use emacs too so the interaction is quite nice. though i doubt this is as gforth-dependent as advertised. 09:44:33 zpg is the code GPL'd? 09:44:46 for the above? 09:44:51 for ... 09:44:58 "one such project" 09:45:15 zpg - if you want to rewrite it again in Forth, go ahead. If you feel like you have trouble doing this, or that what you're doing seems too hard, or that you don't like the look of the result, ask questions. 09:45:38 ahh, no not at the moment i'm afraid. developing ideas and code, but collaborating with a friend who's conjuring up some ideas to boot. he's not comfortable with releasing it until it reaches a stage of maturity, so i'm repsecting that for now. 09:45:46 ok ty 09:46:20 ayrnieu: yeah, thanks for the tip; much better to have specific queries than a general moan,. 09:46:49 well, it sorta' helps steer the feedback 09:46:51 .oO maons, graons, and kaons 09:47:15 .oO new nick: 09:47:16 but you PoppaVic mentioned using (third party?) wordsets -- i take it implementing string handling and linked lists would take some time, so if there are any solid and (kinda standardised) implementations kicking around, pointers would be appreciated. 09:47:20 --- nick: Quiznos -> ClassClown 09:47:31 s/you// 09:47:37 heh 09:47:48 yea, that's the ticket 09:47:52 linked lists take no time at all, really. 'string handling' depends on how you want your strings handled :-) 09:47:53 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 09:47:57 well, not precisely... There are ANS "extensions", and gforth goes even beyond that some. 09:48:16 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 09:48:17 yeah, the idea of "string" is more class than struct 09:49:17 there's ascii, unifoo, utf-8, counted/pascal/forth, terminated/c, etc, etc 09:49:27 what's unifoo? 09:49:38 Here we go. 09:49:38 'unifoo' is how PoppaVic refers to 'unicode'. 09:49:39 ClassClown: generic for all the unicode/iso stuff 09:49:44 ayrnieu lol 09:49:50 vic, that's funi 09:50:22 ClassClown: it's even more hillarious when you start reading up on it and trying to organize for code and data. 09:50:36 round one 09:50:40 ah ok, regarding strings, ascii is fine for the model 09:50:42 i have tried; it was a hearty laf 09:51:06 essentially: reading from input file and splitting via whitespace into individual string elements, then adding these to a linked list. 09:51:22 zpg, neither linked lists nor strings are time-consuming in Forth. What is it you're trying to do? 09:51:24 that's the core; then i'd implement a demo of buffer reversal 09:51:31 Ah. 09:51:38 ClassClown: I'm sort of leaning toward 100% ascii/c-strings for words/names/code - and MAYBE allowing some sorta unifoo for stricly output or reporting. 09:51:41 like i say, keeping the model simple for now. 09:51:48 PoppaVic after reading the manpages regarding, i finally concluded that all chars should by 32bit (long) or a double celled char in forth 09:51:55 zpg, that sounds like a straightforward task. 09:52:03 zpg: you MIGHT - maybe, can use a db for the "words" 09:52:06 i saw no reason to lose bits in the process 09:52:12 in Smalltalk and Python, I simply subclass a OrderedCollection/List and add a class method #fromFile: to parse and add. 09:52:25 simply, yes :_) 09:52:33 ClassClown: well, the c 'char' is part of the issue, as is the bandied-about "string" 09:52:40 zpg, it'll be more hands-on in Forth, but not extraordinarily so. 09:53:04 Quartus: ah ok. let me be honest: i think the lack of directly 'friendly' facilities has made me inflate the complexity of the problem. 09:53:05 PoppaVic true, it's ancient azoomshuns that need to be belted into submission with proper libc code and recoding 09:53:12 but i do think it necessary to understand Forth by implementing a real-problem. 09:53:21 zpg: well, write "friendly" code 09:53:36 ClassClown: also, some of the newer presumptions. 09:53:51 zpg, I can't speak for your conceptualization of the problem, but take it a step a time. Write your loop that opens the file and reads all the lines one at a time, then write your parser, then add the code to establish a linked list. 09:53:52 PoppaVic: well, manipulating the stack versus inheriting a prettily pre-written list is what i'm comparing. 09:53:56 true; ansi's gettin in the way *a-gain*!! 09:54:11 zpg: have you toured the FIG-Forth site or any of the example stuff for gforth? 09:54:15 zpg - we can't really give you lots of advice without more information about your data and what you want to do and about what parts of your setup are important or could be changed, and so on, so just go on with it :-) 09:54:32 heheh ok - i'll take a closer look 09:54:40 and PoppaVic, no not yet, just the kForth examples. 09:54:44 and make sure you decompose allll over ;-) 09:56:29 zpg: you also *might* - and this is tentative, because I'm leaning this way - consider wordlists as powerful/hefty interfaces. Like methods, members, etc. 09:57:02 I get really upset with thousand "word" vocs/wordlists. 09:57:56 frankly, i miss the fig-style of vocabularies 09:58:01 You'll also notice that, overall, forths tend to publish their "limits" more clearly than some. 09:58:12 ClassClown: or f83, or Fpc 09:58:16 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 09:58:33 fig 09:58:40 anciently 09:58:52 I can vaguely recall them, I'd have to dig out some old books 09:59:09 but KISS is a good rule of thumb 09:59:10 What do you miss about them, ClassClown? 09:59:15 tree-structured, searching from current voclist down to main trunk 09:59:23 oh, THAT? 09:59:29 very fast even on 6502 09:59:50 that ends up slowing down larger sets and lacking the "order" and later control 10:00:05 but it's a good base to start with (as i envision it) 10:00:14 although, I will admit that for an interpreter, it was ok with me 10:00:16 Wasn't FIG 3+count? 10:00:31 i forget, i need to dig out the fig books i have 10:00:39 i never liked forth79 10:00:44 Quartus: I think that evolved a bit later, but started out that way 10:00:46 3+count is horrid. 10:01:08 incidentally, since there's some activity: who here is using forth predominantly for embedded work -vs- general purpiose computer. 10:01:17 not i 10:01:21 --- nick: ClassClown -> Quiznos 10:01:31 I live C, but I'm working up a variant. 10:01:47 3+count ? 10:01:52 zpg, both. It does marvellously in constrained environments, of course. 10:02:04 ayrnieu, the dictionary headers kept only the first 3 characters of the name, plus the length. 10:02:07 i'm currently working on replacing smallc's asm code gen with forthgen 10:02:13 i'm almost done 10:02:22 just need to replace some logic and data structs 10:02:34 yeah, like [6][FOO] might imply FOObar 10:02:43 20% closer to canceling shuttle launch 10:02:59 Quartus - better than keeping only the first four characters of any name, still. 10:03:05 "forthgen"? 10:03:21 ayrnieu, marginally perhaps. 10:03:31 i'm changing smallc to output forth-code instead of asm code 10:04:00 a simple forth code 10:04:07 basic words only 10:04:14 fundamental words 10:04:52 hmm 10:05:14 well, even that will vary - based on the platform and vm 10:05:25 ah, C, isn't everything. 10:05:27 so far i've limited the backend azoomshun to size of cell 10:05:37 oh, wait: you mean text, quiz? 10:05:51 Quiznos, did you have a stroke? 10:05:51 rephrase pls? 10:05:57 Quartus when? 10:06:04 how do i check? 10:06:16 :) 10:06:18 I'm wondering what the hell 'azoomshun' is supposed to be. 10:06:20 heh 10:06:24 assumption 10:06:26 heh 10:06:26 presumably 10:06:44 Presumably, so the question becomes why is that considered funny? 10:06:45 virl: well, neither is "asm" - let alone perl or xml or - well, whatever ;-) 10:06:45 thats pheocian 10:07:04 phonecian 10:07:14 phonecian? sp? 10:07:15 Quartus - speech->text 10:07:17 I suppose if you were worried you might have some credibility, and wanted to be sure you were rid of it, then that'd be a good way to go. 10:07:30 Quartus heh, who's that to? 10:07:47 Quiznos: umm - no, it's not even phonetic. 10:07:49 You can safely azoom I mean you. 10:08:07 yea, sure, ok 10:08:12 yea yea sure sure 10:08:16 We all know that Quiznos is too lame to read BitchX.doc -- we knew that before 'azoomshun'; no need to harp on it. 10:08:23 heh 10:08:28 who reads? 10:08:32 oh, phonetic 10:08:41 tathi yea!! 10:08:48 I was going to be very impressed if you knew phoenician :) 10:08:52 heh 10:08:57 i could larn it 10:09:13 I dunno' how - they died out centuries ago 10:09:16 i mean how hard is it to rotate shapes? 10:09:21 heh 10:09:33 quiznos - depends on the shapes, and the dimensions of interest, and the resolution of rotation. 10:09:52 almost all the shapes of the phonican charset are recognisable 10:10:01 i just need to link sound to shape 10:10:07 good luck 10:10:10 ty 10:10:11 quiznos - for very simple shapes with very few dimensions for very poor resolution, see the implementation of tetris provided with gforth 10:10:26 ayrnieu you're thinking too hard. breathe 10:10:32 breathe breathe breathe 10:10:35 :> 10:10:38 I don't need to hold my breath to think! 10:10:42 ok 10:10:56 wait until you see how brits pronounce "Featherstonehaugh" 10:11:15 k 10:12:27 gforth has a tetris? 10:12:30 where? 10:13:33 There's a Standard Forth tetris kicking around. Text based. 10:14:17 bigforth/minos (whatever) might also have one 10:16:08 virl: /usr/share/gforth/0.6.2/tt.fs on my box :) 10:18:57 oh, I can't believe something useful in ANS 10:19:06 heh 10:19:22 scarey concept 10:19:35 echew ewil 10:19:39 echew ANS 10:19:52 eschew? 10:20:11 biblical word :) 10:20:20 JOb did it, we're to do the same 10:20:21 er...tetris is "useful"? 10:20:22 Job 10:20:34 virl - the implementation is quite neat. sokaban.fs in there, too. 10:20:36 tathi: well, his heart was in the right place 10:20:41 tt is not the definition of ANS 10:21:05 yeah, gforth comes with some interesting stuff 10:21:25 yep, but significant? Useful, maybe 10:21:31 sokoban.fs , rather. I studied that, and wrote in its style of simple rule-based play applied to character matrices. 10:21:51 And, after over 20 years of it - I still ponder "OK, wtf?" 10:22:11 It's been 20 years since 1994 for you? That's fast living. 10:22:27 no, I meant forth itself - not ANS itself 10:22:53 well, modern forths don't print 'OK' 10:23:01 I do remember a huge work that took multi-issues of FIG newsletter for a database and a spreadsheet 10:23:03 no, they print 'ok' 10:23:08 it must in order to be a Forth 10:23:16 DO NOT COMPROMISE!!! 10:23:17 heh 10:23:22 no.. 10:23:25 that's one reason I disliked ficl, actually; it had a /prompt/ 10:23:38 ok 10:23:41 is not a prompt 10:23:51 it's an `i'm ok, are you ready?' 10:23:54 clearly. ficl has a prompt. 10:24:07 lol, clearly CM is of the 70s 10:24:09 lol 10:25:25 MORE IMPORTANTLY, gforth indeed prints ' ok' and not 'OK', and it classes well enough as a modern forth. 10:25:25 any idiot can dump the prompt, and "OK" always meant "done did that" 10:25:26 I don't get this one.. 10:25:48