00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.06.30 00:08:53 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 00:11:18 --- quit: Cheery ("Leaving") 00:18:21 --- join: saon_ (i=1000@c-71-199-235-144.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:20:48 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:20:55 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-143-252.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 00:24:57 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:35:44 --- nick: saon_ -> saon 00:44:00 --- quit: segher (Success) 00:50:39 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-143-252.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:15:20 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:20:13 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-200.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:33:31 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:39:51 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@fr-reims-gw.origami-systems.com) joined #forth 05:24:49 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 05:37:26 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 05:41:50 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool72-107.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:50:35 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 06:07:31 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 06:38:59 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 07:00:56 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-166.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:09:33 hmm.. I wonder why STATE is a global, when you have threads. 07:11:42 it's not global, it's a USER variable 07:11:49 precisely because of that 07:12:13 umm, last I checked, it as global for gforth - just wondering, because uvar are odd 07:12:33 oh, wait - my bad 07:12:39 interesting 07:13:09 I suspect we need a complete USER var-list and docs 07:13:37 it depends on the exact threading model used 07:13:55 I keep learning those - yes, I know - in round-about ways 07:13:56 but almost everything in the compiler / interpreter itself should be USER 07:14:07 I would sure think so. 07:15:00 I would think only the underlying platform heap/errno are global - and those too can be buffered. 07:15:29 everything that the threading model defines as thread local, should be thread local 07:15:35 Hmm 07:15:35 pretty easy eh :-) 07:16:08 Perhaps part of the issue is what USER actually runs/does - to whom/when/where. It's the interface-level. 07:16:48 It looks to me like we are using the heap or indirect-pointers a lot. 07:18:30 I guess I have to merely segregate "global" (per-process) from pthread/pth types. Going from there to forks and such. 07:19:14 Bog knows I have no interest in the whole shitload cross-compiling to each other. 07:20:50 segher: a lot of it seems to be the process-space (global) versus threads (vms) and reconciling heap, wordlist, vocab, threads 07:21:41 you have to decide exactly _what_ should be global and what per-thread in your threading model 07:22:16 yeppers - it's never been well deliniated. 07:22:24 or delimited 07:22:39 you need to make it so though. there are some choices... 07:22:48 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 07:23:00 Interesting.. *sigh* A simple-project is turning into a whooole mess of interface ;-) 07:26:17 --- join: ASau (n=user@home-pool-170-3.com2com.ru) joined #forth 07:33:37 hmmm... 07:34:12 Interesting... amca's comment about stackframes still seem to suggest compatibility. 07:37:21 Dobry vecer! 07:37:33 Whose comment? 07:41:32 Does anyone know text differential comparison tool to apply 07:41:33 to arbitrary strings? 07:42:03 I mean, not line-oriented texts. 07:42:22 Particularly, FORTH block files. 07:43:13 not really 07:43:40 though you could throw together a quick shell script -- use dd to unblock them and then do a normal diff. 07:43:59 I don't like the idea. 07:44:34 It does not highlight minor changes, like inserting a word or two. 07:46:36 I'm thinking of version control system for block-oriented environment. 07:47:02 keep thinking 07:47:36 well, how about vimdiff then? 07:47:48 that'll highlight minor changes, and you could set it up to automatically block/unblock with dd 07:48:05 but yeah, it's still not a version control system for blocks :) 07:48:13 vimdiff? 07:48:15 highlighting and shit is editor/browser domain 07:48:32 I don't like vi clones, but I'll take a look. 07:49:01 why not join the lemmings and use xml? 07:49:22 ASau: what editor do you use? 07:49:30 emacs could probably do the same thing 07:49:37 Emacs 07:49:57 Of course, it can. 07:50:02 "'emacs' is soo kewl" 07:50:17 There's forth-block-mode in Gforth distribution. 07:50:29 no 07:50:35 there is support for it. 07:50:56 Well, you may call it "support." 07:51:08 Basically, because a lot of forth code will use blocks/block-files as database-type stuff. 07:51:53 Anyway, I don't want to tight myself to external editor. 07:52:27 tough - use ascii or block-mode text.. And which is more portable? 07:52:32 you might be on your own then 07:54:07 PoppaVic: I'm in Palm World part of time. 07:54:31 PoppaVic: There's "block mode" embedded. 07:55:52 ASau: are you saying that you want something that would run on both Palm and your PC? 07:56:11 Of course, not! 07:56:36 It is not so easily converted. 07:57:19 But I want it to be close enough. 07:58:01 getc/getkey and fgets/getline equiv - need to standardize the INTERFACE - the local interface is another issue. 07:58:29 hell, I forgot fread/fwrite 07:58:48 I don't know, whether it is good enough to distribute 07:58:49 several files representing one source (Forth blocks DB with VC stuff). 07:59:13 clarify the baseline and think of "limits" and "delimiters" 07:59:40 PoppaVic: PalmOS is good enough to provide "text in whole". 07:59:57 No need to do editing stuff. 08:00:33 I think, that ACCEPT is good enough. 08:00:44 that's nice. 08:01:13 REFILL and SOURCE are even better. 08:01:16 Soo, yer thinking "streams" 08:01:25 No. 08:01:30 oh, that's even more amusing 08:01:35 No streams. 08:01:56 guess what? ACCEPT is like getc() 08:02:04 In PalmOS I get text this way: 08:02:28 I don't care about palms - see Quartus. 08:02:37 1) switch to text editing mode; 08:02:48 I'm DragonForth :) 08:02:57 I'm not 08:03:02 never been. 08:03:51 2) switch back from text editing mode with several lines 08:03:51 (block!) filled. 08:03:59 There are as many forth variants as C variants - and this ain't "good". It approaches "platform" * "assembler" variants. 08:04:29 I'm aware of 3 forths for palms. 08:04:52 "limit" yerself to some-one tool, and move along? 08:05:17 ppforth is eforth with KEY-oriented interface 08:05:24 Quartus is commercial 08:05:26 I suspect you will certainly hit the same issues I saw in #asm, however. 08:05:42 try pfe? gforth? 08:05:57 DragonForth is delosoft.com, but now I'm the most active developer. 08:06:11 I ain't suprised. 08:07:19 BTW, what's PFE's licensing terms? 08:07:23 PD? 08:07:27 GNU? 08:07:27 * PoppaVic sighs 08:07:32 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 08:10:36 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:10:36 --- join: richard_ (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:10:46 --- quit: snowrichard (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:11:04 --- nick: richard_ -> snowrichard 08:23:24 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 08:23:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:23:51 Dobry vecer, Jason! 08:24:10 --- part: ASau left #forth 08:27:05 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 08:37:19 lo :) 08:41:42 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:43:53 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@pool-70-104-23-46.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 09:19:01 --- join: neceve (n=claudiu@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:23:03 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 09:48:03 --- quit: nighty ("Disappears in a puff of smoke") 10:06:31 --- quit: neceve (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:10:23 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-12-134.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 10:28:57 --- quit: Al2O3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:29:55 --- nick: OrngeTid1 -> OrngeTide 10:41:59 --- join: nighty (i=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 11:10:53 --- join: zpg (n=user@81-179-186-6.dsl.pipex.com) joined #forth 11:27:53 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 11:37:27 hmm, why would this cause a stack underflow? --> ": jumploop ( limit index number -- ) rot rot do i 5 u.r +loop ; " 11:37:47 What are you passing it on the stack? 11:37:47 >> 10 0 5 jumploop 11:38:32 if i pass "10 0" instead, and put a "5" in front of the "+loop", it works fine. but i can't seem to leave an argument on the stack for +loop to use. 11:38:43 Oh, I see. 11:38:51 +loop consumes the increment, so that's your problem. 11:39:06 oh thanks. 11:39:17 You'd have to DUP it. 11:39:40 yeah working now 11:39:41 And then DROP it later. 11:39:42 : jumploop ( limit index number -- ) rot rot do i 5 u.r dup +loop drop ; 11:39:48 Right. 11:39:57 Most Forth words consume their arguments. 11:40:15 * zpg nods 11:40:23 something to get used to :) thanks for your help 11:40:33 Is there some reason you're passing the arguments in the order you are, just to have to reorder then in jumploop? 11:41:53 nope 11:41:55 just playing 11:43:05 what's the norm: to write as concise a method as possible and therefore manipulate the stack beforehand, or to write definitions with the most sensible parameter lists? 11:43:16 (or neither -- i.e., context dependent) 11:52:19 --- quit: Cheery ("Leaving") 12:03:01 must head; cheers for now. 12:03:02 --- quit: zpg ("ERC Version 5.0.2 $Revision: 1.726.2.10 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 12:37:25 Oops, wandered off. 12:38:44 --- join: GoGoDncr (n=GoGoDncr@74.132.233.136) joined #forth 12:40:10 --- part: Ray-work left #forth 12:58:05 erc? 13:07:40 hmmm... I suppose irc would also tend to be pronounced as "irk". 13:08:12 To see this sight, it irks my very soul. --Shak 13:12:39 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 13:26:03 --- join: Al2O3 (n=Al2O3@pool-70-104-23-46.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 13:40:00 --- quit: timlarson_ ("Leaving") 14:28:27 --- join: crc (n=crc@pdpc/supporter/active/crc) joined #forth 14:28:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 14:29:15 --- join: I440r (n=mark4@24-177-235-246.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) joined #forth 14:36:25 hi I440r 14:44:47 --- quit: virsys (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:45:33 --- join: virsys (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 14:46:12 hi 14:46:23 sorry, didnt notice your hello lol 14:46:46 im not paying much attention to anything atm 14:50:18 --- join: tattrdkat (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 14:56:04 --- join: drwhat (n=virsys@or-71-53-74-48.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) joined #forth 14:57:21 --- quit: virsys (Nick collision from services.) 14:57:50 --- quit: tattrdkat (Nick collision from services.) 14:57:54 --- nick: drwhat -> virsys 15:13:16 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-142-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 15:20:45 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 15:20:57 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 16:55:43 asau is aware of three forths for palms. What's the third? 16:56:00 I thought he said... 16:56:29 yeah, ppforth, Quartus, DragonForth 16:56:45 ah, oh well. 17:10:00 ppforth? I faintly recall that. Some recompile of an old hobby Forth. 17:32:25 --- quit: GoGoDncr (Remote closed the connection) 17:34:49 --- join: GoGoDncr (n=GoGoDncr@74.132.233.136) joined #forth 18:25:56 --- quit: nighty (Remote closed the connection) 18:33:24 --- join: nighty (n=nighty@sushi.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 18:36:58 --- quit: nighty (Remote closed the connection) 18:56:30 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 18:56:34 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-224-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:08:28 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 19:11:23 "Anyone who tells you there is some definite number of phase to the software development cycle is a fool. Nevertheless... The Nine Phases Of The Software Development Cycle" 19:11:40 by which I mean: "of the Programming Cycle" 19:37:19 "This is just plain awkward. It's hard to read, harder to maintain, and hardest to write. And for all that, it's worthless at implementation time. I don't even want to talk about it anymore." 20:14:13 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 20:14:49 hello 20:15:05 howdy. 20:16:04 you doing ok? I've been without my car for a week, got it back this evening 20:16:55 I'm fine. Good about your car, too. 20:17:12 had a hole in the transmission pan 20:27:27 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 20:37:19 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-136-114.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:44:54 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:04:09 --- join: llama32 (n=zak@076.a.001.beg.iprimus.net.au) joined #forth 22:04:44 can anyone point me to info about any recent serious/large-scale work using forth? 22:12:04 have you checked forth.com? 22:41:37 --- quit: Shain (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:46:54 --- quit: llama32 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.06.30