00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.06.12
00:06:15 <JasonWoof> grrrr
00:06:23 <JasonWoof> how do I get the output from SYSTEM ?
00:06:25 <JasonWoof> in gforth
01:40:54 <JasonWoof> never mind, looks like I should be able to use pipe-open
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15:07:52 <nighty> sorry about the reconnects dude :)
15:28:52 <JasonWoof> http://jasonwoof.com/evilcms.fs is finished. You can play with it if you like
15:28:58 <JasonWoof> let me know if you can break into my computer with it :)
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15:30:56 <virl> hey cool JasonWoof how did you do it?
15:31:00 <virl> which forth?
15:32:12 <JasonWoof> gforth
15:32:28 <JasonWoof> svn://svn.jasonwoof.org:2200/gforthcgi/
15:32:32 <JasonWoof> svn://svn.jasonwoof.org:2200/evilcms/
15:33:05 <JasonWoof> if you check out the latter it will grab the former automatically
15:33:35 <virl> oh, gforth, interesting I knew no realworld code which use it
15:34:35 <JasonWoof> I never looked, but I don't get the impression there is much
15:34:50 <JasonWoof> I hacked up gforthcgi
15:34:57 <JasonWoof> and now I can write my dorky scripts in it
15:35:00 <JasonWoof> this is the seccond
15:35:15 <JasonWoof> seems to be going pretty well
15:35:18 <virl> fine..
15:35:20 <JasonWoof> as I use it I add capabilities
15:35:29 <virl> my problem with gforth its ansi
15:35:57 <JasonWoof> gforthcgi comes with a pretty big file called basics.fs which alters gforth considerably
15:36:20 <JasonWoof> adds A register functionality, lots of common words
15:36:30 <JasonWoof> fixes for/next so they loop the right number of times and you can break out of it
15:36:32 <JasonWoof> etc etc
15:36:37 <virl> personally I would like to throw out 98% of it's words
15:36:53 <JasonWoof> oh, extra words don't get in my way
15:37:02 <JasonWoof> I turn warnings off so it doesn't complain about me redefining them
15:37:14 <virl> I really like a forth with max 50 words..
15:37:21 <JasonWoof> oh
15:37:25 <virl> that's the reason why I like retro so
15:37:34 <segher__> so get a machine with 1kB of memory
15:37:35 <JasonWoof> I want a cgi programming environment that I can use to get silly scripting things done quick with
15:37:55 <virl> well, retro has more words, but you get an impression of what I want
15:37:56 <JasonWoof> I'm going swimming. I'll catch up on any comments when I return
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16:17:34 <ttuttle> Quartus: Hey!
16:20:29 <ttuttle> Quartus: You around?
16:37:09 <JasonWoof> back
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17:05:11 <Quartus> Hey ttuttle.
17:10:25 <ttuttle> Quartus: Hey.
17:10:36 <Quartus> What's up?
17:11:02 <ttuttle> I'm working on an assembly OS.  (Of course it's going to turn into Forth.)
17:11:46 <Quartus> A young man with a lot of time on his hands. :)
17:11:52 <ttuttle> Hehehe.
17:12:00 <ttuttle> Do you know what a file ending in ".s" is?  Is it assembly?
17:12:15 <Quartus> Gnu outputs assembly to .s as a rule.
17:12:20 <ttuttle> Okay.
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17:39:16 <JasonWoof> I can think of a lot worse things someone could do with too much time on their hands :)
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17:44:24 <ttuttle> What does this mean?  "os.ld:23 non constant expression for load base"
17:44:52 <JasonWoof> sounds like it needs to know something at compile time
17:45:02 <JasonWoof> but you've put in some expression that can't be calculated until runtime
17:45:12 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: Well, there's no line 23 of os.ld :-)
17:45:31 <JasonWoof> how mysterious :)
17:45:32 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: But the whole thing is already assembled, how could there be a non-constant expression?
17:45:56 <JasonWoof> I was asuming that the error was for the linker script
17:46:04 <ttuttle> Yes, it is.
17:46:06 <JasonWoof> not the assembled binaries
17:46:21 <JasonWoof> how many lines does os.ld have?
17:46:24 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: 22.
17:46:35 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: So it's complaining after it's done parsing the file.
17:46:39 <JasonWoof> oh, probably just missing some terminator then
17:46:45 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: But I didn't change os.ld, I just added a new file to the program.
17:47:20 <JasonWoof> weird
17:47:23 <ttuttle> Yeah.
17:47:44 <JasonWoof> dunno. but usually when you get an error line at the end it means it was scanning for some sort of terminator and didn't find it
17:48:28 <JasonWoof> your new file have weird characters in the filename?
17:48:38 <ttuttle> nope
17:49:07 <ttuttle> But it does store a set of static strings.  Perhaps they're in the wrong section.
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17:49:55 <JasonWoof> tathi: I just wrote evilcms.fs
17:50:07 <JasonWoof> which is a web-based ftp client
17:50:09 <JasonWoof> basically
17:50:12 <tathi> heh
17:50:20 <JasonWoof> you punch in user, pass, dir, path, host
17:50:28 <JasonWoof> and it grabs the file, and sticks it in a textarea for you to edit
17:50:48 <JasonWoof> and gives you a "save" button and a link to view that page of your site in a seperate window
17:51:02 <ttuttle> JasonWoof: Nice.
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17:51:11 <JasonWoof> jasonwoof.com/evilcms.fs
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17:51:26 <JasonWoof> it doesn't ever write passwords to disk
17:51:55 <JasonWoof> I have a client who doesn't have an online computer, so installing an ftp program is not practical
17:52:03 <JasonWoof> and I don't host his site, so I can't make a normal CMS
17:52:11 <tathi> I see
17:52:28 <JasonWoof> well, maybe I could have, I actually didn't check the capabilities of his hosting account
17:53:27 <JasonWoof> later I might improve it so it can split the file up into bite-sized pieces
17:53:39 <JasonWoof> so you can edit the bits that were meant to be edited easily
17:54:02 <tathi> man.  I wish the svn:externals property supported relative URLs
17:54:16 <JasonWoof> yeah. I thought that was annoying
17:54:25 <JasonWoof> oh, did I put in localhost?
17:54:27 <JasonWoof> oops
17:55:05 <JasonWoof> fixed
17:55:06 <ttuttle> stupid assembly code doesn't work
17:55:40 <tathi> ttuttle: what's the trouble?
17:56:14 <tathi> oh, problems linking.  hmm.
17:56:15 <ttuttle> tathi: I'm getting "os.ld:23 non constant expression for load base" (line 23 is one line past the end of the file os.ld).
17:56:39 <ttuttle> tathi: All I did was add a file to the project.  I didn't edit the linker script.
17:58:01 <ttuttle> tathi: Wanna see the code?
17:58:34 <tathi> sure
17:58:39 <ttuttle> tathi: Want a tarball?
17:59:00 <tathi> yeah
17:59:50 <ttuttle> tathi: This should work: https://thomastuttle.mooo.com/~tom/os.tar.bz2
18:01:38 <ttuttle> tathi: ?
18:01:43 <tathi> I got it
18:01:46 <ttuttle> ok
18:01:57 <tathi> do you know what you did that made it start having issues?
18:02:56 <ttuttle> tathi: Yes, I added all the isr stuff.
18:03:09 <ttuttle> tathi: isr_gen.pl just generates all the isr_stub.* files.
18:03:58 <tathi> hmm
18:05:20 <ttuttle> tathi: I'm not sure what part of the code is causing the linker error.  All of it seems pretty simple.
18:06:40 <tathi> yeah, it does.
18:07:18 <ttuttle> Quartus: wanna take a look?
18:08:56 <tathi> It sounds like the linker is trying to compute some address and can't, but I'm not sure what "load base" means, exactly.
18:09:13 * tathi goes to take a quick look at the linker source
18:09:46 <ttuttle> Hmm.
18:11:40 <tathi> hrm, can't quite follow that.  gotta love cryptic error messages.
18:11:55 <ttuttle> Yeah.
18:12:10 <tathi> oh, wait.  what about those strings in isr_stubs.c ?
18:12:12 <ttuttle> I never set a "load base", and if there is one, it should be "phys", like the file says.
18:12:17 <ttuttle> tathi: What about them?
18:12:32 <ttuttle> just a sec, i remember a gcc option for this
18:12:33 <tathi> it says __attribute__ ((section("data")))
18:12:37 <ttuttle> tathi: I erased that
18:12:40 <tathi> shouldn't it be ".data" ?
18:12:50 <ttuttle> got it
18:12:57 <ttuttle> CFLAGS += -fwritable-strings 
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18:15:00 <tathi> why would that help?
18:15:06 <tathi> I don't see it writing to the strings anywhere
18:15:34 <ttuttle> tathi: It moves them to .data
18:15:40 <ttuttle> tathi: just a sec
18:16:44 <tathi> oh.  yeah, that's why I was suggesting changing the attribute
18:17:16 <ttuttle> tathi: I tried .data and data; neither work.
18:19:23 <ttuttle> tathi: hmm
18:20:29 <tathi> ?
18:20:46 <ttuttle> tathi: I can't get this to work.  Even if I specify section("data") or section(".data"), it doesn't work.
18:21:07 <tathi> I'm not even sure that's the problem -- it just looked somewhat suspicious
18:21:13 <ttuttle> tathi: No, it is, I think.
18:21:57 <tathi> is isr_names used anywhere?
18:22:04 <ttuttle> tathi: Not yet, but it will be.
18:22:35 <tathi> well then, did you try compiling without it to see whether it is the problem?
18:22:48 <ttuttle> tathi: It is the problem.
18:23:42 <ttuttle> tathi: If I don't make them pointers, they work fine.  GCC seems to put string constants in separate, random sections.
18:24:04 <ttuttle> brb
18:24:15 <tathi> ah
18:28:10 <tathi> odd that dropping the section attribute and using -fwritable-strings didn't work
18:36:17 <ttuttle> no, using -fwritable-strings *did* work.  the section attribute didn't
18:36:55 <tathi> oh.  that makes sense, now.
18:37:03 <ttuttle> tathi: so what do i do?
18:37:05 <tathi> it would just change the attribute on the array, not on the constant strings
18:37:10 <ttuttle> tathi: hmm.
18:37:17 <tathi> is using -fwritable-strings a problem?
18:37:33 <ttuttle> tathi: Yes, gcc whines that it's deprecated, and I don't need writable strings, just to move them.
18:37:44 <tathi> ah, ok.
18:37:54 <tathi> let me try some quick experiments
18:38:02 <ttuttle> ok
18:39:45 <ttuttle> tathi: I don't see a way to apply the attribute to each string.
18:42:16 <ttuttle> got it
18:42:29 <ttuttle> tathi: I have the isr_gen.pl script generate 31 separate strings, and then make an array of pointers to those variables themselves.
18:43:00 <tathi> yeah, I don't see any better way to do it :(
18:43:43 <ttuttle> harumph
18:47:47 <tathi> or maybe you could add *(.rodata.*) to the .data section in the linker script.
18:48:38 <tathi> er, I mean *(.rodata .rodata.*)
18:48:55 <tathi> looks like that might catch them wherever gcc puts them
18:50:36 <ttuttle> tathi: Cool.
18:51:17 <ttuttle> tathi: That works!  Thanks!
18:51:53 <tathi> sure
18:51:58 <tathi> sorry it took so long
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18:52:32 * tathi hasn't had to mess with linker scripts in a while
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20:15:46 <ttuttle> I have reached a very important stage in my OS development!
20:16:10 <ttuttle> I caused--and caught--my first General Protection fault!
20:17:29 <Quartus> Careful, or you'll meet Kernel Error and Major Malfunction.
20:19:19 <ttuttle> Quartus: I can't figure out why it did it, either :-\
20:19:37 <nanstm> Quartus: For that, you shall suffer Corporal Punishment, you Captain of Private enterprise. :) 
20:20:04 <Quartus> Yeah, well, Lieutenant... something or other.  :)
20:20:11 * ttuttle 's brain hurts from all the bad jokes.
20:20:31 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2
20:21:53 <Raystm2> So long as I'm not the Chief of Seamen, call me anything you want.
20:22:11 <Quartus> Like Smithers said, women and sea men don't mix. :)
20:22:21 <Raystm2> lol
20:22:32 <Raystm2> Excellent Quartus!
20:23:08 <Raystm2> How's that Web Browser coming?
20:23:30 <Raystm2> Oh wait, that's your line.
20:23:47 <Quartus> Any progress?
20:24:51 <Raystm2> Yes, we are well into the GPLvsPD argument as we speak.
20:25:54 <Quartus> Ah. So it's ground to a complete halt.
20:25:55 <Raystm2> Personally, I think Forth is $#free#$er then GPL, but i'm tainted.
20:26:34 <Raystm2> No, I not a halt. 
20:26:41 <Raystm2> Research is  on going.
20:26:51 <Quartus> Ok.
20:27:25 <Raystm2> I've visited the RFC about HTML/1.1, just to see what i've gotten my self into. Mozilla's site as well.
20:27:47 <Raystm2> A browser is a complex animal.
20:28:01 <ttuttle> Raystm2: hahaha, have fun :-)
20:28:05 <Raystm2> :)
20:28:08 <Raystm2> thanks.
20:28:44 <Quartus> I would figure, prototype, test, and refine, but if you want to make the whole thing spring fully-formed like Athena from the head of Zeus, well, good luck. :)
20:29:00 <Raystm2> Quartus: one of the books you sent is helping.
20:29:04 <JasonWoof> I'm writing code
20:29:11 <JasonWoof> and I wasn't aware there was an argument
20:29:18 <ttuttle> Quartus: ##c is a joke.
20:29:31 <Quartus> Yeah.
20:29:34 <Raystm2> That Dr. Dobbs. has some windowing forth code. Might provide a little shortcut to getting something on screen.
20:29:36 <JasonWoof> there wasn't really anything moving before... so it's hard to say that it halted
20:29:55 <Quartus> JasonWoof, I was being flip. I figure a licensing debate to be the death of a collaborative effort.
20:30:33 <JasonWoof> yeah? I was hoping we would just agree to the GNU GPL and move on :)
20:30:34 <Raystm2> JasonWoof: It's on now. :)
20:30:54 <Raystm2> No i was going to abstain from voteing actually. GPL is fine.
20:31:04 <ttuttle> Quartus: I keep wanting to /ignore people, but I don't wanna miss the fun.
20:31:05 <JasonWoof> someone mentioned something about prefering something else, but thus far nobody has voiced a strong opinion
20:31:12 <JasonWoof> Although I feel somewhat strongly about GPL
20:31:14 <ttuttle> Anyway, I'm going to bed.
20:31:19 <Quartus> Cya ttuttle.
20:31:22 <ttuttle> Bye!
20:31:23 <JasonWoof> I could live with PD though
20:31:25 <Raystm2> bye ttuttle
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20:31:52 <JasonWoof> I think perhaps nobody wants to voice a strong opinion unless they're confident that they will actually contribute a lot
20:31:53 <Raystm2> JasonWoof: GPL is fine. PD is prob'ly good to a point. 
20:32:08 <JasonWoof> just depends on what your goals are
20:32:54 <JasonWoof> personally, I find Stallman's views to be only a slight exaguration of what I think
20:33:01 <Quartus> But what does PoppaVic think? 
20:33:02 <Quartus> :)
20:33:04 <Raystm2> JasonWoof: contribute a lot... Yes, I think you are correct here. Seeing something that is a mock up might help. Maybe act as scaffolding to building the actual app.
20:33:15 <JasonWoof> and he's pretty much extreme
20:33:24 <JasonWoof> yep :)
20:33:35 <JasonWoof> I'm partially just writing some code so there will be something to talk about
20:33:36 <JasonWoof> and connect to
20:37:15 <Raystm2> I've been reading some windowing code in Dr. Dobbs
21:08:54 <JasonWoof> Raystm2: what forth/OS does Dr. Dobbs make windows in?
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23:36:54 <JasonWoof> grrr
23:36:57 <JasonWoof> I installed glark
23:37:00 <JasonWoof> which is similar to grep
23:37:13 <JasonWoof> because it has an option called --exclude-matching
23:37:56 <JasonWoof> it will exclude files matching that name from a recursive search, but it uses the same expression as the search expression
23:38:59 <JasonWoof> I really want a recursive file search utility that I can tell to scip my .svn folders
23:40:43 <JasonWoof> oh, sweet. I can pass a negative expression to --path
23:40:44 <JasonWoof> nevermind
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