00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.06.05 00:14:41 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 00:40:22 --- join: ravenEx (i=ravenEx@87.252.248.35) joined #forth 01:14:05 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-89-124-38.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:14:05 --- quit: Ray-work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:49:04 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-179-058.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 01:57:19 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 01:57:25 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 03:18:42 --- quit: ravenEx (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:18:55 --- join: ravenEx (i=ravenEx@87.252.248.35) joined #forth 03:19:47 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool66-155.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 03:22:58 --- quit: ravenEx (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:23:15 --- join: ravenEx (i=ravenEx@87.252.248.35) joined #forth 03:55:33 --- quit: ravenEx (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:43:52 hmm 04:53:48 tathi: you awake? 05:06:54 yeah 05:06:56 what's up? 05:07:05 Hmm 05:07:49 Trying to ascertain how one would define a "secondary", particularly a "literal" - when yer already dealing with an OO base. 05:09:43 elaborate, please? 05:09:56 tathi: I'm beginning to feel we might as well use nothing but Object-ptrs for secondaries - EXCEPT in that we MAY need Literals in there - and I tend to ambivilate (?) over that. 05:10:29 I don't understand what you mean by secondaries 05:10:39 It might well be I am missing something like your "meta-assembler" 05:10:48 tathi: colon-defs 05:13:44 so you have an object type for primaries (primitive code objects)? 05:14:25 yes 05:14:54 However, it is currently ONLY rigged for dealing with a VM and associated stacks, etc 05:16:09 Currently, 17 Klasses and less than 75 dispatcher-methods. 05:16:59 The 17 includes 1 basic, 2 primary and a variety of "core" klasses 05:18:07 oh...wait. If colon defs are made up of object pointers, then you're dispatching on the object's type anyway, aren't you? 05:18:09 I believe there are a small fist of further klasses lurking in some of the dispatches 05:18:21 Right 05:18:27 ..and any overloading. 05:18:42 I don't see the problem, then. 05:19:18 If it's a code object, it will get executed, if it's something else, presumably its handler will push the pointer onto whatever stack, right? 05:19:20 I'm _almost_ thinking that you just compile new objects/numbers/etc, and reference the 2ndary via ptrs to those. 05:19:33 hold a sec... 05:20:25 http://rafb.net/paste/results/dJF1g858.html 05:20:36 Above is the pseudocode for classes. 05:20:41 (core classes) 05:21:35 http://rafb.net/paste/results/TJN9qc10.html 05:22:02 above is the header for vm_objects. I am thinking I am missing an entry-point OR a concept/layer 05:24:35 er...I don't see anything there that indicates how your colon defs work 05:25:39 I agre - I'm trying to decide.. First off, there is a "Bodies" SUBCLASS. But, I was going to leave it up to everyones compile/execute dispatched funcs 05:26:07 ..I'm beginning to think that might be a notch too vague? 05:26:43 Maybe not. I dunno' - I'm getting no support or feedback at all 05:27:35 I keep thinking that this mess is a notch more generic than your fovm stuff.. BUT, I could be mistaken. 05:28:32 I'm "envisioning" colon-defs as nothing but lists of object* and embedded data (the latter is likely optional). 05:29:20 What are your goals here? 05:29:47 It seems like you're just working towards being as generic as possible, with no clear end in mind. 05:30:00 I decided there was far, far too much commonality, and that too many explicit expectations. 05:30:20 yeah, I'm afraid that's what's happening. 05:32:23 I was _considering_ "compiling" into a buffer, and "revealing" to the heap via a memmove() - but I begin to believe this is possibly more effort than generating objects or compiling ptrs. 05:33:00 It _might_ be - and this is a recent thought - that I need to add "reference" as well as "object" 05:33:44 OR, I need a (basic? universal?) colon-def format? 05:35:30 --- quit: Jim7J1AJH ("leaving") 05:36:11 If it were my project, I would just make the necessary decisions to get something running 05:36:39 I always turn up unexpected consequences when I get to actual code 05:36:43 Yep. I know - and you do/have 05:37:14 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (n=jim@221x115x224x2.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) joined #forth 05:37:17 I just can't see that many moves ahead 05:37:20 Yeah... I love those "Supplize!" issues 05:39:13 Hmm.. SOoo, I guess I either abandon all of it - or stumble along somewhat further. No insights today? 05:39:29 Not really, sorry. 05:39:51 I *do* think that almost any set of decisions that leads to a working engine will be interchangeable at some level 05:39:55 np, at least you tried and I asked! It's prolly something dead-simple I am not seeing. 05:40:02 Turing completeness and all that... 05:40:12 It's more a matter of what things are easy and hard in the resulting system 05:40:20 Never met Turing ;-) 05:40:23 right. 05:41:01 and IMO the only good way to deal with that sort of thing is to get to a working system and then refactor it to make the hard things easier 05:41:20 I keep thinking that it's a matter of codifying "basics" and an API.. And, I think I am missing an API to get from C to the VM is most of it. 05:41:34 hmm 05:41:51 Yeah, I've coded that way before... It might require a whole rewrite and referencing the current code 05:42:21 BUT, there is still an issue or three missing, and I keep wondering where/why 05:42:58 It looks to me like you have about enough to start an interpreter on top of 05:43:22 yeah.. Just not the pcode-compiler. (or so it feels) 05:44:19 I mean, do you start by mandating an OBJECT? (laying it down by hand) - or a simple func-call? Somewhere along the line, C needs to shove info to the stack. 05:45:14 Take a look at the header-file, I believe Dispatcher is likely an issue. 05:47:03 OR, I need a C-func that feeds to the VM and runs it. 05:47:08 All right, I'll take another look. I haven't really followed what your macro stuff is doing with core.classes thoroughly. 05:47:21 I really think it's just about all there though 05:47:47 tathi: conveniences.. using -E just shows that I am creating enumerations or Klasses, etc. 05:48:24 tathi: thanks.. I think so to - Just looking for a feeder/start point or "primitive-access". 05:49:44 I was super-suprised to note that - allowing for overloading - I so far have only 74 dispatch-enums 05:51:32 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:09:39 --- join: ravenEx (i=ravenEx@87.252.224.66) joined #forth 06:27:45 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:31:21 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 06:31:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 06:33:43 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 06:35:13 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-156.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:40:03 --- quit: madwork_ ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 06:40:13 --- join: madwork_ (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 06:40:46 --- quit: madwork (Nick collision from services.) 06:40:50 --- nick: madwork_ -> madwork 06:46:02 --- join: timlarson_ (n=timlarso@65.116.199.19) joined #forth 07:43:29 --- join: madwork_ 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16:00:04 --- join: lorance (n=lorance@adsl-209-21-178.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 16:13:15 --- quit: lorance ("leaving") 16:31:24 --- join: crc (n=crc@pdpc/supporter/active/crc) joined #forth 16:31:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 18:46:33 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:50:04 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 18:50:08 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-226-128.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:09:15 --- join: jdrake (n=jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM0012254195d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:31:54 Do you guys have experience with power supplies? (for electronics) 19:47:29 jdrake: I have some experiance with power supplies. Maybe I can help. 19:48:06 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 19:48:57 I found a power supply on ebay that looks like one I could use for both cost and features. 19:49:26 May I msg you the url? 19:50:08 absolutely. 19:50:40 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 19:52:32 hi 19:52:46 ."hello" 19:53:37 ." hello " 19:54:15 Never did get into forth that much :p 19:55:23 .( hello) actually :-) 19:55:27 I'm not actively using it at the moment either, but I've got Gforth installed 19:56:06 jdrake: why not? 19:56:17 Practical concerns. 19:57:03 I do application level programming, stuff on system level is too much for my time to take to learn. I tried to get ficl working once, but was not successful, thus - no forth. 19:57:37 i'm building a high-level forth like 19:57:52 If I had a forth that would allow me to create a graphical game without too much trouble and was friendly enough to me, then I might consider using it. 19:58:28 The amount of time I have available is really limited. So I pretty much have a single project computer-wise that I am going to do for now. That is a small remake of an atari game. 19:58:59 Other things include getting ready to move in two months, and getting my electronics hobby going again. 19:59:04 was it in 6502 assembly orginally? 19:59:18 Wouldn't know 20:02:16 http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html?SoftwareLabelID=199 20:06:27 I will likely do it in python. Although a forth environment might be handy for some future use... 20:14:55 JasonWoof 20:15:01 oxygene 20:15:28 hi I'm back 20:15:44 had my friend on my server 20:17:16 oops :) 20:17:18 sorry 20:17:55 jdrake: I've had an enjoyable time codeing Karel the Robot, http://pirate.shu.edu/~wachsmut/Teaching/CSAS1111/Notes-Karel/ , in colorforth. 20:18:38 I call it ChuckBot the Cursor, as the colorforth cursor is really close to the shape of the traditional Karel on the display. 20:21:34 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 20:21:47 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-164-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:22:24 http://gvr.sourceforge.net/ here's a python version. 20:28:06 Hmm, I wonder if it would be a good use of time to program a robot. I am not a beginning programmer, but still might be enjoyable. 20:38:41 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:16:53 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 22:18:06 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-164-027.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 22:21:24 --- quit: slava ("Lost terminal") 22:28:06 --- quit: segher_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:33:00 hi 22:34:59 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 22:39:18 jdrake: what do you want to make it do? 23:00:10 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:29:29 I think it's fair to say he wants to program it to dance the Watusi. 23:29:43 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-32-96.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.06.05