00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.04.06 00:21:24 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:02:10 --- join: ecraven (n=nex@193.171.46.9) joined #forth 02:02:17 greetings 02:03:24 Hi, ecraven. 02:07:37 exam was easier than I thought 02:07:58 what about was it? 02:11:26 comp sci ... logic gates and stuff 02:11:37 nice :) i have a c# exam today.. hate it :( 02:12:53 I like C# ... :) 02:13:35 hehe, sorry :) i don't like lots of its design decisions :) 02:14:09 better than java :) 02:14:24 arguable.. :) 02:14:31 no common Number type for example :( 02:15:15 Ruby! Ruby! 02:25:19 definitely.. but the lecture is called c# :( anyway, it'll be over in a few hours i hope :) 02:25:33 (and i'd rather shout Scheme! Scheme! :) 02:48:11 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 03:03:58 --- quit: ecraven ("bbl") 03:30:04 Ruby Ruby! 03:30:19 Scheme Scheme! 03:30:22 C C! 03:33:37 Scheme's okay, it's just too small to be very practicle. 03:33:43 ~practical. 04:06:37 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:56:58 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-111.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:16:21 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 06:25:14 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-174-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:33:45 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:04:01 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-33-206.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:04:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 07:11:48 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 07:44:18 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:45:49 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-1.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:13:19 --- join: virl (n=virl@62.178.85.149) joined #forth 09:13:37 hi 09:21:32 lo 09:31:10 I'm the dark side for forths like factor. 09:31:31 hehe 09:32:49 Factor is like suggesting Ruby or Python in the wrong places.. (or Perl) - expect a donnybrook 09:33:05 put 'em up. 09:34:12 I've a love/hate relationship with C and Gforth. - the former is more important to me. 09:36:56 forth is.... Forth is like IRC versus email. 09:37:24 ..both CAN do the job - but. what's yer speed/tolerance. 09:37:55 well I don't know how xell will be compared to factor, but I see that there isn't a need for features like GC in xell. 09:38:48 virl: sure, it would depend on access/avail and losing-track (ass-wiping) 09:39:30 BUTT , THat implies Xell will not be as powerful/flexible. 09:39:42 the only place in xell where a GC could be partly useable is the dictionary, but there is chance big, that it deletes important words and that's the reason where I would say it doesn't make any sense. 09:39:46 ..and thats an overview, not a comment 09:41:15 it implies less powerfulity or flexibility? why? when I look at it I would think it's perhaps more powerful than factor. 09:41:59 well, as we just spoke of in ##C... We had a guy trying to tie random hw (a touchscreen) into C... 09:42:03 but ok, I'm talking in the moment about vapoware 09:42:34 ..better to write a program, convert to a daemon, and then consider a driver. OR, write a lib, OR do both. 09:43:09 it's the ABI - or at least the commo - that seems to forever plague shit. 09:44:48 you are talking about solving the problem to tie a touchscreen into C and then it's the ABIs fault? 09:45:01 And, often: I think it's because of a desire to INTER{SECT,LEAVE} code 09:45:35 virl: he has to deal with ports, and timing, and dataflow and sizes- yes 09:46:33 I've seen this over and over over the years, and I don't see much in the way of "solution" 09:48:13 ok, sizes... so what's a int and so on. ports you mean access of an extern device, so something which is OS depending. and dataflow? why is dataflow a problem? oho oh at last timing, well, which timing do you mean? 09:50:17 well, ports are not remotely simple. Nor their handling, but TIMING - folks forget local versus network, etc. 09:50:52 they want to work nonblock, or blocking, and STILL don't deal with where/to and terminators or counters. 09:50:54 well, I'll continue work at my vapoware and some day it will be finished, then perhaps thousand of people say me that it's absolute shit. probably slava will do that very dedicated 09:52:04 Hell, we still have folks that think one cpu-chip is RT-running X programs and such 09:52:36 I agree it should be translucent, but they want to pretend it's transparent. 09:54:09 what should be translucent? sry.. 09:55:02 transparent means: everyone can see everything; Opaque means: no one can SEE anything; Translucent is somewhere in the middle. 09:56:11 ok, shit dictionary. in it it's explained that translucent is transparent 09:56:41 ahh 09:57:08 well, I interpreted it wrong. 09:57:19 yeah, translucent is like... white-colored glass, or pebbled-glas in a bathroom window. 09:57:57 yes, like it was explained in my dictionary. I hate myself, I'm so dumb from time to time. 09:58:01 you can SEE "something" happening - but not detail 10:00:57 --- quit: charles` (Client Quit) 10:03:11 but in context to what you said what does it mean? 10:03:51 hmm 10:04:09 opaque means you just have to trust all my handlers. 10:04:34 transparent means you all agree on sizes, alignment, padding, offsets, etc. 10:04:40 what are your handlers? 10:05:01 translucent means you can SEE some values, but we hae handlers for most all of it 10:05:28 virl: ohhh. Like add/math for "integers" in forth 10:05:44 ok. give me an example 10:06:24 the typical example would be a fixed bit-size and everyone knows it, and all possible handling is 100% exposed 10:07:19 even structs, (under a system) would be 100% visible and all handlers would be 100% exposed. 10:08:19 handlers take FOO and return FOO or BAR - either changing the FOO or returning something called BAR. In Forth it tends to be somewhat more powerful and worse 10:09:28 pretend for a sec yer writing an assembler using the forth stacks - now, reconcile sizes, types, implementations and data 10:15:07 PoppaVic, I'm getting this saying in my head now ... "Curiosity killed the cat" ... "Curiosity killed the .. " .. 10:15:52 right 10:16:05 so, where do we STOP worrying - why? 10:18:22 hell, Alterego most folks would love a .a of static or source that would explain.. Instead, we all suffer 10:40:57 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:45:42 --- nick: ajs -> alnr 11:16:21 100% visibility isn't bad. whatever, I can't follow, it's possible that xell will be 0% of everything. well, we will see. 11:27:36 anybody here? 12:01:29 --- join: Astrobe (n=fred@abo-187-67-69.rou.modulonet.fr) joined #forth 12:33:32 Yes 12:41:08 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@host-64-139-245-63.nctv.com) joined #forth 12:46:32 --- quit: Cheery ("Leaving") 12:53:41 --- quit: Astrobe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:58:46 --- join: Astrobe (n=fred@abo-187-67-69.rou.modulonet.fr) joined #forth 13:07:19 --- quit: Astrobe (Connection reset by peer) 13:21:05 even the core api needs to be very flexible, hell I hope I don't create with that slow execution. ok, the implementation is in C so it can't be really fast. 13:22:17 lol 13:29:49 assembler produces faster programs. 13:30:07 handtuned assembler 13:31:45 tathi, how is fovium 13:43:37 I'm stalling :) 13:47:14 the game needs some more work before it's ready for a scripting language 13:47:46 I think I need a toy project to use it in to figure out how the interface should work exactly. 14:00:04 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:49:08 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Wewps.") 14:58:30 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-90-192-85.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:58:30 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:14:51 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:21:51 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:22:04 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 16:27:59 tathi: vor isn't enough of a toy? 16:34:58 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-63-4.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:35:13 I meant it's not quite ready for a scripting language yet 16:38:23 well...maybe it is; just not as much as I'd like it to be. 17:03:37 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-42-151.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:12:30 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:18:08 --- quit: Alterego ("Leaving") 17:20:53 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:22:07 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:22:43 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@host-64-139-245-63.nctv.com) joined #forth 18:24:50 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:31:31 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> nanstm\ 18:32:43 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 18:32:48 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-238-219.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 19:07:59 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@host-64-139-245-63.nctv.com) joined #forth 19:08:06 is there a way to do string escapes in forth? 19:08:16 (specifically gforth) 19:08:19 each forth is different 19:08:26 i've never used gforth 19:09:11 in the forth's that you have used, have you done the equivalent of "\n"? 19:10:11 depends where. it's easy to use one of the various , operators to append ascii values into the body 19:11:25 hmm, I'll look into that 19:11:49 I'm writing a compiler that converts a dialect of lisp into forth 19:12:20 but I'm writing it in C, and have the strings stored in native C format 19:14:33 You can replicate most of printf pretty easily. 19:14:52 Walk the string, look for \, act on the next character. 19:15:33 I wrote a short one once that handled simple format specifiers, too. 19:16:02 heh, i'm writing a printf replacement in C now. 19:20:48 Timely :) 19:22:00 well, actually, mostly just numeric conversion routines 19:22:11 the actual printf replacement will probably have to wait 19:22:49 I found it handy once or twice. 19:28:16 Quartus, hmm, good idea 19:32:27 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Wewps!") 19:48:13 --- join: verbatim (n=verb@130-127-44-5.chouse.resnet.clemson.edu) joined #forth 19:51:38 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 20:21:53 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:22:31 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@host-64-139-245-63.nctv.com) joined #forth 20:25:33 --- part: alnr left #forth 21:08:33 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:09:11 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@host-64-139-245-63.nctv.com) joined #forth 21:11:48 --- quit: crc () 21:28:09 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 21:29:37 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:37:39 --- join: charles` (n=charles`@64.139.239.98) joined #forth 22:13:26 --- quit: charles` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:10:45 --- join: OrngeTid1 (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 23:16:57 --- nick: OrngeTid1 -> OrngeTide 23:17:10 --- part: OrngeTide left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.04.06