00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.04.04 03:19:27 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-44.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 03:35:20 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 04:33:37 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool238-107.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:14:35 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 05:14:50 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:20:03 --- quit: amca ("Farewell") 06:02:41 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 06:24:41 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-159-018.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 06:28:20 --- join: Ray_work (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-90-192-85.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:35:56 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 06:37:04 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:56:51 --- quit: snowrichard ("Lost terminal") 07:39:54 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:41:37 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool198-61.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:00:39 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:04:19 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 09:07:36 --- quit: neceve (No route to host) 09:15:11 --- join: Astrobe (n=astrobe@LAubervilliers-151-11-56-82.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 09:15:27 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:17:04 Hey guys. I'm looking for a piece of advice 09:17:26 ask 09:17:54 It's about MARK: (or MARKER: ) and multitask; 09:18:04 ewwwww 09:18:20 what platform/variant? 09:19:01 I think it doesn't care. The problem is I think the same wherever you are. 09:19:11 So, 09:19:11 The "platform" will always be a whore, the "variant" is always half-assed 09:19:29 You'd be wrong 09:19:36 ..but go ahead 09:20:44 So the problem is that a user may launch 1,2,3,4 tasks, each saying MARK:, but also each may end at any time 09:21:01 bad llama, in several ways 09:21:15 how? 09:21:16 I never liked 'mark' 09:21:32 FORGET has the same problem 09:21:38 the prob is, you sound like they all share a space. 09:21:48 ..mind you "sound like" 09:21:48 they do. 09:22:06 so, cleaning up is moot. 09:22:47 I think it requires a chained list of marks. 09:22:51 consider: where are they integrating their headers and code? Whom calls upon it that would NOT be waxed? 09:23:36 Do you need to axe/wax/nuke their dribbles? Does anyone rely on any of it? 09:24:25 should their 'vocs' actually be 'wordlists' that can be vaporized and ignored? 09:25:11 The current crop of wordlist-based Forths would LOVE to think of "plugins", but seem incapable. 09:26:30 Either you are loading a library, (useful thereafter), or you need to manage MARK/Cleanup within a textfile/source. 09:27:56 prob is... you can't mark/delete a block that ends up supposedly remaining in the codespace. 09:28:31 ..at least satisfying visible words. 09:29:33 And, bear in mind: "tasks" in forth are neither threads or processes (userspace versus kernelspace) 09:30:06 they CAN be the former, but usually not the latter. 09:30:58 In the former case: are they adding new, task-only 'words'? 09:31:21 ..where are they adding them? 09:31:52 sorry I had to finish something. 09:32:19 The whole mess mixes in PLATFORM and object and namespace issues. 09:32:49 To be precise, I'm talking about my system; 09:33:31 that's nice, and I can mention my defunct Kaypro-464 or my 286, or my debian or powerbook systems. 09:33:37 and it doesn't really do multitask, but a sort of a background tasking thru callbacks? 09:33:49 yeah, something like that 09:34:07 (callbacks come from a GUI lib') 09:34:28 The foremost issue is the linkages of headers, code and "marks" or "vocabularies" 09:35:32 I'd love to state mark/release and forget all work well, but they don't.. and adding "tasks" is even worse than pthread() or fork() 09:36:05 There's also a (thought very limited) solution using DEFER on a MARKER 09:36:06 So, you need to understand where you are, what yer doing, and under what? 09:36:43 yeppers, except a DEFER is like a func* and if you released the bock, then the pointers can become invalid. 09:36:49 under what: Linux, Windows, DOS, OS-less x86 16bits real mode 09:36:55 bock/block 09:37:12 yer expecting too much support. 09:37:35 The idea is that all tasks you the same name for marks, and the topmost say ' NOOP IS Cleanup 09:38:14 ostensibly, mark/release and forget use a name-point to recycle RAM, and it's not usually true. 09:38:52 there are namespaces, codespaces and dataspaces; atop forwards like DEFER 09:39:44 In all my implementations, all is in the same space, so I see no problem a priori 09:41:45 I do 09:42:00 at the least, USER and back/forward refs 09:42:21 I have neither of these. 09:42:33 you do if you have threads 09:42:48 I don't have that. 09:42:54 Yer dealing with shit like C and forks versus pthreads verus PTH 09:43:24 ..without the differentation and cleanup 09:43:49 I do deal with C in Lindows implementations; the DOS/standalone have their own coop multitask 09:44:31 doesn't matter, almost all the same issues would apply - at variant levels and for variant reasons. 09:44:47 Forth wants to believe it *IS* an OS 09:45:58 I don't get it. We all know about Forth-made cooperative multitaskers; no OS required. 09:46:11 untrue, always was 09:46:39 what's untrue? 09:47:12 in very early forth, it became the master-program, and USER vars would allow some really primitive "tasking" in a single-threaded CPU... 09:47:58 Very few Forth care about the underlying machine, procs, tasks, etc - they don't agree or communicate. 09:48:44 USER was actually akin mostly to "cooperative multiprocessing" 09:49:01 It just doesn't scale well. 09:49:26 Sorry, we don't speak the same language, and I gotta go; thanks for taking the time to answer to me anyway. 09:49:50 best you can SUGGEST is that 'tasks' and USER are applicable to "user-space threads" 09:50:00 np, Astrobe - stay well 09:50:23 PoppaVic. Thx. BYE 09:50:28 --- quit: Astrobe ("Leaving") 09:55:27 --- nick: Cheery -> cheery 10:31:24 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:35:54 Ray_work is back. Watch out! :) 10:38:06 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 10:43:30 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 11:03:36 --- join: virl (n=virl@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 11:10:27 --- quit: neceve (Remote closed the connection) 11:21:47 --- quit: slava ("Lost terminal") 11:52:44 --- join: neceve (n=Clau@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 12:14:39 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 12:18:30 --- quit: cheery ("Leaving") 12:30:24 when you renew an SSL certificate do you have to make a new CSR? or can you just submit the same one? 12:47:45 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 14:06:45 --- join: Lars_G (n=lars@unaffiliated/lars-g/x-000001) joined #forth 14:57:56 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-90-192-85.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 14:57:56 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:24:34 --- quit: neceve ("Bye people, I'm leaving") 15:48:10 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:56:31 --- part: Lars_G left #forth 17:13:42 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:41:11 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:41:57 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:49:01 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:51:50 --- join: Amanita_Virosa (n=jenni@adsl-69-154-178-250.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 18:25:27 --- quit: Amanita_Virosa ("Wewt, another time.") 18:27:49 --- quit: uiuiuiu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:32:35 --- join: uiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-239-084.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 18:38:04 --- join: nballen (n=nballen@adsl-69-109-11-176.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:51:19 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 21:26:17 --- quit: nballen () 22:27:58 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 23:19:14 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.04.04