03:58:26 --- log: started forth/06.03.08
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06:34:30 <snowrichard> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
06:37:46 <snowrichard> hi
06:38:04 <snowrichard> cat stepped on keyboard
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08:24:11 <virl> hi all, what's going on?
08:24:27 <PoppaVic> nada
08:25:50 <virl> hi PoppaVic 
08:26:33 <PoppaVic> How's by you?
08:27:34 <virl> fine
08:29:17 <PoppaVic> brb .. need the phone
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14:59:13 <thin> woooo ##forth !
14:59:29 <JasonWoof> eh?
14:59:32 <Quartus> Yes, just what i was thinking.
14:59:46 <thin> you're for it?
14:59:48 <thin> or against it?
15:00:01 <JasonWoof> I see no point in moving
15:00:06 <Quartus> Oh. I just noticed the extra #.  In fact I don't give a tinker's dam what the channel is called.
15:00:37 <thin> JasonWoof: well its going to happen automatically unless we do otherwise i guess
15:01:22 <Quartus> It seems to be a common occupation for people around here to get very excited about lilo's messages, or about the need to register their nicks, or about how many hash-marks are at the beginning of a channel name.  I personally can't get that excited about any of it. :)
15:02:27 <JasonWoof> yeah, I ignore most of it
15:02:53 <Quartus> It seems really trivial to me.  Unless the channel name changes daily, it's hardly a burden to keep up.
15:03:26 <JasonWoof> thin: is someone going to come along and replace this channel with a redirect or something?
15:03:56 <thin> JasonWoof: apparently lilo is going to change this channel into a ## one..
15:04:11 <thin> according to i440r
15:04:14 <JasonWoof> ok
15:04:30 <thin> unless i get chuck moore to tell lilo this is the official channel
15:04:37 <Quartus> That'll drive away the octothorpophobes!
15:05:30 <JasonWoof> hehe
15:05:45 <JasonWoof> thin: oh
15:05:52 <thin> it's not a big deal, the redirects will be a little annoying for everyone that goes to #forth instead of ##forth
15:06:06 <thin> unless their irc client handles it better than mine heh
15:06:15 <Quartus> I'm sure Chuck really, really, really cares how many # are at the beginning of the channel name.
15:06:36 <thin> Quartus: settle down
15:06:43 <Quartus> What?
15:08:35 <thin> ok, well i440r really doesn't want it to change or he'll leave permanently 
15:08:44 <Quartus> Why?
15:08:56 <arke> thin: but thats a good thing!
15:09:22 <arke> oops, did I say that out loud? ;)
15:09:42 <JasonWoof> no comment
15:09:56 <Quartus> thin, why does it matter to i440r?
15:10:02 <thin> it just does
15:10:13 <Quartus> I understand that it does, and therefore it does, but why?
15:10:56 <thin> it probably has to do with the fact that they're enforcing it
15:11:22 <Quartus> Well, not to worry, I'm sure his boycott will turn the tables!
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15:12:47 <JasonWoof> Quartus: i440r does not require reason. He just likes being extreem. He goes on tirades about tabs vs spaces. Says he deletes all files that are the wrong way without looking at them.
15:12:55 <JasonWoof> that sort of thing
15:13:08 <Quartus> Ok. I thought there might be some rational reason to give a damn about it.
15:14:23 --- nick: arke -> arkes_egg
15:14:31 --- nick: arkes_egg -> arkes_kid
15:14:56 * JasonWoof shrugs
15:15:08 * JasonWoof goes back to coding a quasi-mode for mist
15:15:30 --- nick: arkes_kid -> __
15:16:53 --- nick: __ -> _a_
15:17:08 --- nick: _a_ -> _ar_
15:18:04 --- nick: _ar_ -> _ark_
15:18:30 <tathi> I don't like that they're doing it because, "oh, no, somebody might 'own' the name and sue us for it!"
15:18:57 <Quartus> how does putting another # in front protect it?
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15:19:39 <tathi> dunno, but that's more or less what they said.
15:20:00 <tathi> only "official" project channels can have one #, everybody else gets two.
15:20:16 <tathi> but it does seem like a very silly thing to make a fuss about either way.
15:21:23 <arke> i agree
15:21:23 <arke> :)
15:27:58 <Quartus> It's a bit like Homer Simpson wearing a monk's habit because "the Man can't tell me how to dress!".
15:31:43 <Quartus> Only without the funny. :)
15:31:50 <arke> :)
17:14:22 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2
17:14:59 <Raystm2> Might be a way to get rid of any "deadwood" learkers, I suppose.
17:16:48 <Quartus> It might take them a whole five minutes or so to find the new channel name!
17:17:07 <Quartus> We might drop from a channel high of 22 to, say, as low as 19!
17:18:07 <Raystm2> :) My point exactly! :)
17:23:29 <Quartus> I think we should fight it. Anything that interrupts the constant, high-content stream of Forth discussion here could seriously harm the intellectual future of mankind itself.
17:24:56 <Raystm2> I'll e-mail you my signature.
17:25:24 <Quartus> I'll add it to the bitmap.
17:25:30 <Raystm2> lol
17:25:57 <Quartus> Nothing short of a full-on boycott will do!  Traffic on this channel will drop from 10 lines/day to 0! That cannot go unnoticed!
17:26:25 <Raystm2> It goes un noticed on 85% of the chats I belong to.
17:26:40 <Quartus> Oh. Well, gosh. I don't know what to do, then. :)
17:27:17 <Raystm2> #retro used to be quite and this used to be "loud", now it's versa vice.
17:27:24 <Raystm2> quiet even
17:28:11 <Quartus> I'm only being facetious, Raystm2.  I can't begin to fathom why anyone would care whether one or two # are in front of the channel name.
17:28:43 <Raystm2> I personally don't care. I'll get to revisit my config file. 
17:29:11 <Raystm2> lilo wants to make changes, I can make changes.
17:29:40 <Raystm2> We'll just be twice as sharp as we would if Chuck made it official.
17:31:04 <Quartus> This is the Chuck who doesn't use IRC, and rarely even Usenet.
17:31:30 <Raystm2> Chuck's used IRC.
17:32:05 <Quartus> On extraordinarily rare occasion.
17:32:10 <Raystm2> I think someone was looking over his shoulder. I imagine Chuck's helper getting frustrated and taking the keyboard.
17:32:42 <Raystm2> I imagine Chuck yanking it back out of Jeff's hands...
17:32:52 <arke> oh god
17:32:55 <arke> bad thoughts
17:32:56 <arke> bad thoughts
17:33:02 <Raystm2> lol
17:34:00 <Quartus> Chuck made sure he'd be left undisturbed by leaving an insane man to do his PR.
17:34:13 <Raystm2> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
17:34:39 <Raystm2> rofl, 
17:34:45 <virl> jeff fox is insane?
17:35:03 <Raystm2> lol( version(Smokers Hack))
17:35:40 <Raystm2> Nice to clear the pipes now and again, thanks Q
17:37:05 <Quartus> virl, for certain definitions of 'insane'.
17:37:39 <virl> well, then which ones define him as insane?
17:38:05 <Quartus> I'm using it colloquially, to describe a combination of delusional, belligerent, and paranoid.
17:38:17 <tathi> well put :)
17:39:29 <virl> so you know him?
17:39:31 <tathi> virl: you could probably search back through comp.lang.forth with Google and see some of his rants.
17:39:48 <Quartus> virl, thankfully only through the auspices of comp.lang.forth.
17:39:52 <tathi> basically he doesn't deal well with criticism of The One True Way of Forth :)
17:40:22 <tathi> ya, comp.lang.forth, a couple e-mails, and he used to visit this channel occasionally.
17:44:14 <Quartus> I mean, do you have to know someone personally to determine that they're nuts?  I don't know PoppaVic, but I'm quite sure he isn't operating with the whole box of men.
17:44:31 <virl> so if I understand you correctly he is the hand of chuck which doesn't represents that what chuck thinks?
17:44:38 <Raystm2> So long as the sniper is the missing man...
17:45:07 * Raystm2 was on the phone and re-catching up backwards up the list.
17:45:07 <Quartus> virl, I'm not even sure Jeff knows or understands what Chuck thinks, at least I hope not!
17:46:25 <virl> and if yes? sry, but I'm currently reading his posts to understand it, so please don't expect that I see the whole story.
17:46:34 <Quartus> Anyway, Chuck is reclusive and doesn't care to teach or publish.  Jeff apparently knows him and drops his name a lot, not, at least in my opinion, to Chuck's advantage.
17:47:22 <Quartus> virl, make your own call.  His behaviour on comp.lang.forth supports and expands on what  I'm saying, so you can read through it and decide.
17:48:02 <Raystm2> He does say "stuff". Stuff beginners like me having crossed yet.
17:48:16 <Raystm2> having?? have not
17:49:06 <Raystm2> You have to read a lot of opinion to get to the Tootsie-roll center.
17:50:10 <Quartus> Chuck is unarguably a genius, but as I say, he doesn't publish much, and he doesn't teach.  That would nearly suffice in terms of keeping me from chasing after any new ideas he has by itself; having to try to get at them through somebody like Fox well and truly decides the matter for me.
17:53:18 <virl> well, on the surface it looks crazy.
17:53:41 <virl> and Raystm2 what do you mean with 'Stuff beginners like me having crossed yet'?
17:53:57 <arke> chuck has his ideas, he doesnt mind telling other people but he isnt gonna preach. meanwhile, jeff is absoluetely obsessed about just that
17:54:00 <arke> :)
17:56:15 <Raystm2> virl: I mean... I'm a beginner. I'm not even competent enough to know what the wrong questions to ask are, never mind the right ones. Jeff writes a lot. Some of what he writes is good forth. It's bound to happen. Nobody is wrong all of the time.
17:57:15 <Quartus> Raystm2, he writes Forth? I can't recall any.  Diatribes and rants, yes.  Code?  not as much.
17:57:40 <Raystm2> I gotta read about forth. It's an obsession at this point. He has output. If there were enough output, I may never ever see any from anybody else.
17:57:53 <Raystm2> Wait.
17:57:59 <Raystm2> That's not what I meant to say.
17:58:13 <Raystm2> If there were enough else where, I might never have read Jeff.
17:58:18 <Raystm2> That's what I meant to say.
18:00:31 <Quartus> Hey, finished those books yet? :)
18:00:35 <virl> so in short he is a blowhole of hot steamy air?
18:00:47 <Raystm2> Quartus: yes. 
18:00:52 <Raystm2> Well, the forth ones\
18:00:57 <Quartus> I routinely skip over his postings.
18:01:06 <Quartus> Raystm2, worth the purchase? No buyers' remorse?
18:01:10 <virl> which book?
18:02:01 <Raystm2> Quartus: I often do have buyers remorse and I'm a professional level Purchasing Agent. I don't worry about telling people when I'm unhappy with a purchase.
18:02:19 <Raystm2> I remain thrilled to own the books you suggested.
18:02:27 <Quartus> Glad to hear it.
18:03:20 <Raystm2> Hehe, they stay on my headboard and I thumb thru them from time to time.
18:06:16 <Raystm2> The AOP books stay on my desk and tho I cherrish those the most, I've only cracked open 3 and only briefly.
18:06:28 <Quartus> They're handsome tomes.
18:06:33 <Raystm2> I need to take them to work to pass the long 1hour lunches.
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18:07:58 <Raystm2> Quartus: are you working on more robots?
18:08:40 <virl> well, gn8
18:08:48 <Quartus> Raystm2, I have one up now.
18:08:50 <Raystm2> night virl :)
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18:09:21 <Raystm2> Quartus: on the Ebay?
18:09:42 <Quartus> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZquartus
18:10:55 <Raystm2> That's so cool, you do that.
18:10:59 <Raystm2> Smart.
18:11:07 <Quartus> I need to do more of it, keep the wolf from the door. :)
18:11:11 <Raystm2> hehe
18:16:15 <Quartus> The battle-damaged one isn't flying off of the shelf.  Got several requests for a non-damaged version, though.
18:20:24 <Raystm2> picky. Customers can be picky. I'll never understand the levels some people go to get something "nice", instead of something "functionally equivelent, but cheaper".
18:21:09 <Quartus> Heh. Well, the battle-damaged one is something of a novelty.
18:21:23 <Quartus> It isn't a regular one that had an accident, it was built that way. :)
18:21:48 <Raystm2> I don't know the trivia, so sorry. :)
18:22:08 <Quartus> You'll just have to try harder to keep up, Raystm2. :)
18:22:16 <Raystm2> You'll keep me abreast? :)
18:22:20 <Quartus> As always.
18:22:37 <Raystm2> I defer to your better judgment on some topics.
18:23:01 <Quartus> The pressure is on!
18:23:03 <Raystm2> Jeff, Forth, ROBOTS, Books, 
18:23:06 <Raystm2> hehe
18:23:11 <Quartus> Robot puppets, anyway.
18:23:18 <Raystm2> Well yes.
18:24:03 <Raystm2>  I bought a twelve-string, my second.
18:24:08 <Quartus> Neat.
18:24:19 <Quartus> I take it you mean a guitar, and not, say, a hammered dulcimar, or a lute.
18:24:25 <Raystm2> the first's second fret, I wore it out on the 'G' string.
18:24:34 <Raystm2> Ya.
18:24:54 <Raystm2> This one is a Tkemine
18:25:01 <Raystm2> Takemine even
18:25:08 <Quartus> Not my bailiwick.
18:25:10 <Raystm2> takamine even 
18:25:50 <Raystm2> it's brighter then the Alvarez Yari, louder and heavier, as well.
18:26:17 <Quartus> Rock on. :)
18:26:36 <Raystm2> I don't like it as much, yet. I mean, it's gonna take a while to wear in.
18:26:56 <Quartus> I'm sure you'll acclimatize.
18:28:09 <Raystm2> I read a lot of boot sectors over the three-day weekend.
18:28:28 <Raystm2> Have you written many?
18:30:08 <Quartus> A couple.  Why so many?
18:30:38 <Raystm2> Chuck's in colorforth does something i've only seen in his.
18:31:25 <Raystm2> It uses MASM to back over some 32bit words to make them 16 bits for the real mode.
18:31:49 <Raystm2> I don't believe that was necessary. I've been wrong before...
18:32:05 <Quartus> That sounds odd.
18:32:20 <Raystm2> Good, I thought so.
18:33:09 <Raystm2> I'm under the impression that this was done to get to the display with-out using the bios in protected mode. I wish I could explain it better then that.
18:34:37 <Quartus> No documentation about it?
18:34:52 <Raystm2> There is in the .asm file.
18:36:01 <Quartus> Sometimes a developer might do something because it's easiest for him at that moment.
18:36:11 <Raystm2> ya.
18:36:36 <Raystm2> or maybe he knew how to do this, but didn't know that MASM could write a 16bit REAL section.
18:36:59 <Raystm2> Or didn't like how masm does it.
18:37:04 <Quartus> Possible. I suggest trying to recreate it.
18:38:21 <Raystm2> I've re-compiled it. Great thought that. I could start with a generic boot, and then add some of these pieces. Might even learn something.
18:39:29 <Quartus> It may even be an experiment clumsily reversed, or a mistake patched over.
18:39:55 <Raystm2> ah.
18:40:03 <Raystm2> sure. Why not.
18:41:59 <Quartus> In the absence of comments explaining the peculiarity, I'd be suspicious.
18:43:42 <Raystm2> It says ( upshot) that the reason for doing so was because he was on a 32 bit MASM compiler in protected mode writing a boot section that had to start in 16bit real mode before it could be in 32bit protected mode.
18:44:03 <Quartus> Then your guess may be right.  Unless he had to mix the two directly and somehow MASM doesn't let you do that easily. 
18:44:25 <Raystm2> Doesn't say exactly why, but he does all of his setting up of the display in REAL mode.
18:44:26 <Quartus> Or maybe it was just easier for him to do it that way than it was to look up the correct directives.
18:44:33 <Raystm2> ya.
18:44:35 <Raystm2> I get that.
18:44:42 <Raystm2> makes sence to me.
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21:05:21 --- nick: thin -> thinfu
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21:27:55 <slava> hi
21:29:34 <amca> hello
21:29:39 <slava> what's up?
21:30:04 <amca> nothing much for me - quiet day recovering after gf has left to go home to her place. U?
21:40:12 <amca> slava: What are you up to?
21:40:28 <slava> coding
21:41:13 <amca> Factor?
21:41:33 <slava> yes
21:41:57 <amca> what you working on there presently/
21:41:59 <amca> ?
21:42:21 <slava> the cocoa binding
21:42:57 <amca> You gonna add plenty of sugar? yum... ;)
21:43:03 <amca> Is that for Mac gui?
21:43:09 <amca> or java?
21:43:15 <slava> cocoa has nothing to do with java
21:43:21 <slava> its an API on OS X
21:44:32 <amca> Ah, so Mac. I thought it was one of the two
21:51:50 <slava> i like mac os
21:52:17 <amca> What do you like about it/
21:52:18 <amca> ?
21:52:46 <slava> the UI is nice
21:53:11 <amca> As in style, or other ways?
21:54:24 <slava> usability and appearance
21:54:30 <slava> and speed, even
21:54:35 * amca nods
21:58:31 <slava> cocoa is written in objective c, so once you write a binding for the objective c runtime functions you can call any class method
21:58:39 <slava> and get a list of classes and methods at runtime
21:59:11 <amca> so it is full runtime reflection?
22:01:24 <slava> yes but not as much as a real dynamic language
22:01:32 <slava> and of course there's no GC for cocoa objects
22:01:44 * amca nods
22:01:48 <slava> i have some neat demos, like a web browser in 20 lines of code using WebKit
22:02:01 <amca> How do you find objective C compared to C++?
22:02:04 <slava> also a PDF viewer, and a quicktime player
22:02:11 <slava> i don't really like either one, but i like cocoa
22:02:23 <JasonWoof> objective C is much better than C++
22:02:30 <JasonWoof> haven't used it much though
22:02:31 <slava> true
22:02:52 <amca> Why is that?
22:08:40 <JasonWoof> C++ didn't turn out that well
22:09:04 <JasonWoof> iirc objective C was made many years later
22:09:07 <JasonWoof> much was learned
22:09:21 * amca wikip's it
22:09:51 <JasonWoof> C++ compiler errors were pretty cryptic
22:09:57 <JasonWoof> dunno, I have little interest in either
22:10:05 <JasonWoof> playing with cocoa with objective C was fun though
22:10:30 <amca> JasonWoof: What is it about the langs that makes you have little interest in them?
22:10:53 <Jim7J1AJH> There a good bridges for Python and Lua to ObjC (and therefore to Cocoa and other frameworks).
22:11:01 <Jim7J1AJH> And the start of one for PowerMops.
22:11:49 <slava> i'm adding subclassing to factor's bridge
22:11:57 <slava> once that's done i need to add super message sends and its pretty much complee
22:13:12 <amca> You made it sound like you are programming a pace ship :)
22:13:18 <amca> pace = space
22:28:09 <JasonWoof> amca: I have little use for them. When I want speed and compatibility between different OSes/architectures I use C
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22:28:16 * amca nods
22:28:27 <JasonWoof> for my web coding I have PHP, Perl and Gforth
22:28:35 <slava> you use gforth for web apps?
22:28:37 <JasonWoof> and for cool stuff I'm making my own system
22:29:08 <JasonWoof> slava: for the past couple weeks or so I've spent most of my programming energy on making a framework for doing cgi programming in gforth
22:29:30 <JasonWoof> it's almost done
22:29:36 <JasonWoof> I want to rework the db code though
22:29:52 <slava> cool
22:29:57 <JasonWoof> think I'm going to make a printf sort of thing for making queries
22:29:57 <slava> will you port it to your forth?
22:30:31 <JasonWoof> I'd love to switch over to doing that sort of thing in my forth
22:30:35 <amca> Forth question: Say you have an array of objects in memory and the objects are hetrogenous - say a cell, a char and another cell, previous to structure implementations in Forth, how would they be accessed?
22:30:43 <JasonWoof> unfortunately my forth is to young
22:30:54 <JasonWoof> all in good time :)
22:31:26 <JasonWoof> amca: with these words: @ ! + dup c@ c!
22:31:47 <amca> Like would there a be a lot of stack twiddling, or would  you have , say current-cell1, currennt-char, current-cell2 that you copy the current object into for easier handling?
22:31:56 <slava> factor implements array and slot ("structure") access using numerical offsets
22:32:08 <slava> the method dispatch system is used to define words to read slots
22:32:20 <JasonWoof> amca: how would you like to access them?
22:32:25 <amca> JasonWoof: So would the way you said be using lots of stack twiddling?
22:32:30 <JasonWoof> amca: no
22:32:40 <JasonWoof> can't do much twiddling with dup =)
22:32:58 <amca> Jason the way that allows for the most abstraction. Is that possible without structures?
22:33:05 <JasonWoof> sure
22:33:17 <JasonWoof> create foo 1000 allot
22:33:56 <JasonWoof> : field1! ( value index -- ) foo-struct-size * foo + ! ;
22:34:13 <JasonWoof> : field2! ( value index -- ) foo-struct-size * foo + cell+ ! ;
22:34:37 <JasonWoof> : field3@ ( index -- value ) foo-struct-size * foo + 2 cells + c@ ;
22:34:57 <amca> I see
22:35:10 <JasonWoof> shouldn't be too too hard to write something that will spit out this code for you
22:36:16 <slava>   { } { } "NSObject" "MyClass" define-objc-class
22:36:17 <slava>   "MyClass" objc-class .
22:36:17 <slava> ALIEN: 4419664
22:36:36 <JasonWoof> amca: my personal style is to make a seperate array for each field
22:36:54 <amca> Ah1
22:36:56 <amca> 1
22:36:59 <amca> !
22:37:03 <slava>   MyClass [alloc] [init] .
22:37:04 <slava> ALIEN: 4419840
22:37:06 <slava> woohoo
22:37:11 <amca> Like in BASIC
22:37:20 <amca> slava: Works? :)
22:37:31 <JasonWoof> then, eg, you can use a word that scans an array of chars to look through that char field
22:37:39 <slava> yup, classes can be registered with the runtime, and then instantiated
22:37:40 <JasonWoof> and it doesn't have to know your structure size
22:38:02 <amca> good idea
22:38:21 <JasonWoof> also everything is aligned
22:38:39 <slava> how do you handle dynamic allocation in this case?
22:38:40 <JasonWoof> Which is a requirement on my platform...
22:38:50 <JasonWoof> I don't do dynamic allocation atm
22:39:53 <JasonWoof> I haven't needed it yet
22:40:02 <JasonWoof> perhaps I will some day
22:40:10 <JasonWoof> or possibly not
22:40:19 <JasonWoof> I never did with herkforth
22:40:38 <slava> i only have dynamic allocation :)
22:53:20 <JasonWoof> I like the heap
22:53:30 <JasonWoof> reminds me of my room ;)
22:53:43 <amca> hehe
22:56:25 <JasonWoof> just kidding
22:56:30 <JasonWoof> I just like not having to allocate
22:56:59 <JasonWoof> well, sometimes I do
22:57:05 <JasonWoof> I really like ","
22:57:27 <amca> How does the heap operate? As in what malloc and free use in C or a different sort of heap?
22:57:38 <JasonWoof> no
22:57:49 <JasonWoof> the heap is just one huge buffer
22:57:57 <JasonWoof> the entire memory space that your program lives in
22:58:04 <JasonWoof> and a marker
22:58:09 <JasonWoof> everything before the marker is allocated
22:58:12 <JasonWoof> everything after is not
22:58:25 <amca> So stack allocation
22:58:31 <JasonWoof> the forth word HERE returns that marker (the memory address at which everything past it is unallocated)
22:58:36 <JasonWoof> not a stack
22:58:41 <JasonWoof> it's random access memory
22:59:33 <amca> i meant as in the memory is allocated and deallocated in a stack way, although the access to allocated memory is random
22:59:46 <JasonWoof> it is very rarely deallocated
23:00:36 * amca nods
23:01:22 <JasonWoof> deallocation is usually used to do a sort of large-scale reset
23:01:32 <JasonWoof> or "undo everything I've done since x"
23:01:44 <JasonWoof> although you can do it on a small scare
23:01:48 <JasonWoof> s/scare/scale
23:01:59 * amca nods
23:02:04 <JasonWoof> people usually don't though
23:02:22 <JasonWoof> because if you just need a bit of memory very temporarily, you can just use some of the unallocated part
23:02:51 <JasonWoof> so long as you don't have two different pieces of code using it at once you're all set
23:03:38 <amca> But if you have a forth system that takes up 14 Kb of RAM, how are you gonna be sure that the rest of the 512Mb of RAM will be enough? ;)
23:03:40 <JasonWoof> , (comma) is a word that puts a cell on the heap
23:04:16 <JasonWoof> right :)
23:04:44 <JasonWoof> if you fill the entire memory space, you've got problems... doesn't matter what sort of allocator you have
23:05:44 <JasonWoof> so you can make an array of cells with these values (1 2 3 87) on the heap like so: 1 , 2 , 3 , 87 ,
23:06:04 <JasonWoof> and now HERE will return the address just past the 87
23:06:10 * amca nods
23:06:35 <JasonWoof> if you want to be able to access that array by name, then you just CREATE a name:  create my-array 1 , 2 , 3 , 87 ,
23:06:47 <JasonWoof> my-array cell+ @ .
23:06:53 <JasonWoof> prints: 2
23:08:29 <amca> to make a character sized variable, you would have to do ": mychar 0 C, ;" wouldnt you?
23:09:02 <JasonWoof> you can replace , with c, in my example
23:09:40 <JasonWoof> if you use c, you may have to be careful to allign the heap when you're done
23:09:48 <JasonWoof> the forth word ALLIGN will do that for you
23:10:11 <amca> as in do ": mychar 0 C, ALIGN ;" ?
23:10:51 <JasonWoof> that mychar word will append a 0 to the heap every time you call it
23:11:16 * amca nods
23:11:31 <JasonWoof> you probably want:  create mychar 0 c, align
23:11:47 <amca> so you should do "create my-char 0 ,C align" 
23:11:51 <JasonWoof> what CREATE does is define a new word, and make that word return an address.
23:11:59 * amca nods
23:12:16 <JasonWoof> the address it returns is the next unallocated part of the heap (at the time of CREATion)
23:12:16 <amca> mixed up my :'s and CREATE's there
23:24:15 --- quit: amca ("d34d")
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.03.08