00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.02.05 00:12:36 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-18-99.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 03:38:11 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:40:09 --- join: Serg_Penguin (i=Serg_Pen@ppp85-140-28-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 03:57:35 --- join: segher (n=segher@dslb-084-056-140-047.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 04:29:58 --- quit: yoyofreeman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:33:37 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 05:21:13 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-234.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:02:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:44:33 --- join: venandocarvarow (n=venandoc@h062040252005.plc.cm.kabsi.at) joined #forth 07:16:38 --- join: ThinkingInBinary (n=tom@pool-68-163-153-169.bos.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 07:16:57 Quartus: yo! 07:17:57 --- quit: venandocarvarow ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 07:53:23 --- nick: PurpleSmurf -> Quiznos 08:14:02 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 08:17:41 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-180.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:47:04 --- quit: ThinkingInBinary (Connection timed out) 09:21:42 --- join: ThinkingInBinary (n=tom@pool-68-163-189-229.bos.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 09:34:58 Quartus: hey 09:54:07 --- join: jungledog (n=jungledo@adsl-64-219-109-155.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:56:25 --- nick: ThinkingInBinary -> AShorterHandle 09:56:59 --- nick: AShorterHandle -> ThinkingInBinary 09:58:24 --- nick: ThinkingInBinary -> a 09:58:36 --- nick: a -> ThinkingInBinary 09:59:03 --- nick: ThinkingInBinary -> a 09:59:35 --- nick: a -> ThinkingInBinarh 09:59:37 --- nick: ThinkingInBinarh -> ThinkingInBinary 10:00:15 --- nick: ThinkingInBinary -> a 10:00:19 --- nick: a -> ThinkingInBinary 10:00:41 --- nick: ThinkingInBinary -> a 10:00:52 --- nick: a -> tib 10:01:19 --- nick: tib -> tt1470-ripe 10:01:24 --- nick: tt1470-ripe -> foobar 10:01:52 --- nick: foobar -> thinker2 10:29:41 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:30:09 --- nick: thinker2 -> ThinkingInBinary 10:30:21 Quartus: you around? 10:31:29 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 10:57:06 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 11:57:16 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:14:18 --- join: enot (n=Enot@ppp85-140-40-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 12:17:30 hello! 12:18:41 hello! back :) 12:31:26 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-186-051.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:33:13 Quartus: hey 12:39:06 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 12:39:24 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:48:06 Hey. 12:50:55 --- part: jungledog left #forth 12:52:16 Hey all! 13:04:55 Hey Ray. 13:31:04 --- quit: uiuiuiuiu (Remote closed the connection) 13:31:09 --- join: uiuiuiuiu (i=ian@dslb-084-056-220-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:34:22 --- join: TheBlueWizard (i=TheBlueW@ts001d0012.wdc-dc.xod.concentric.net) joined #forth 14:59:30 --- quit: enot ("Leaving") 15:33:19 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:46:13 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 16:40:43 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:05:15 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-3-164.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 17:06:29 Morning 17:16:06 evening here 17:16:13 hi 17:16:23 hi slava 17:17:00 Hi crc & slava 17:17:13 What you guys up to? 17:17:46 * crc is getting ready to start work on further development of the code library for retro 17:18:01 (also, fetching the darcs repo for Factor as we chat) 17:18:07 crc: What are you gonna be concentrating on? 17:18:19 (with the rf upgrading) 17:19:47 amca: I plan to do flesh out the initial bindings for Gtk, rewrite the old debugger, and do an improved editor interface in the short term 17:20:09 write an editor using the gtk bindings 17:20:18 I might 17:20:34 slava: What about you? What are you up to? working on Factor? 17:20:44 i'm adding some features to my ffi so i can call cocoa 17:20:59 no marshmellow? 17:27:51 * crc notices that gcc-2.95 and gcc-3.3 fail to compile Factor, 3.4 works ok though 17:27:59 correct 17:28:08 gcc < 3.4 has bugs 17:28:13 well, i'm sure 3.4 has bugs, too. 17:28:18 heh 17:28:19 ok 17:28:33 * crc will make 3.4 the default then 17:28:47 or get 4.0, if your distro supports it. 17:28:54 its the latest 17:29:56 What is Cocoa? Sounds like a Mac thing 17:30:08 its a system library on OS X 17:30:18 wrapper for the lower-level Carbon library. it does GUIs and other things 17:31:24 Ah 17:31:38 Yay! I was kinda right! :) 17:32:39 it has a lot of stuff integrated you won't find on linux unless you install a bunch of random programs. 17:32:58 for example, it is trivial to play any kind of video, do text to speech, or generate PDFs 17:33:28 and all you have to bind to is the runtime object system. you don't need to write wrappers for the classes/methods 17:33:36 Generate PDFs from what sort of input? Screen input? 17:33:50 graphics calls 17:35:13 ? 17:35:48 the CoreGraphics library provides a set of graphics rendering functions, which can render to the screen or to PDF. 17:35:55 I see 17:36:15 Does it provide for vector, as opposed to raster, rendering? 17:36:26 yes. OS X has a very sophisticated graphics system 17:36:35 Or do the pdf's have to be basically encapsulating a bitmap? 17:36:39 Cool 17:37:06 Something similar is gonna be used for Linux in the future isnt it? Vector rendering that is. Or is it done already? 17:37:26 any API that lets you say 'draw a line from point A to point B' is 'vector rendering'. please stop reciting buzzwords 17:40:47 There is an essential difference between having a display being vector oriented as opposed to raster. In a raster oriented display mechanism, if you draw it, then resize it, the pixel artifacts show up, whereas with vector graphics you dont get the same occurence. Im not reciting buzzwords - I just made up those terms then when trying to grasp for a phrase to express myself with. 17:41:34 when you resize a window, its contents get redrawn. 17:43:56 yes, but how the contents get redrawn/resized depends on whether the graphic is vector or raster based. For example, the lines that compose the window boundaries are often vector based as when you resize them you dont get aliasing, but (at least not too long ago) if the icon in a window is resized you get the aliasing. 17:44:14 no, you don't understand 17:44:32 Ok. Please explain it to me then. 17:44:33 scaling a bitmap will lead to artifacts, yes. 17:44:38 * amca nods 17:44:46 That is what I am saying 17:44:57 but in any graphics API, you can draw a line from point A to point B, with the correct length 17:45:09 why would it scale the resulting bitmap? 17:45:49 Okay, this is how I understand it to happen from my limited gui coding. 17:48:35 You draw the line(Xa, Ya, Xb, Yb) on an object sometimes called a "canvas". If you then told the OS to resize the canvas, then as far as I understand it, the canvas information is stored as a bitmap in memory, not a vector representation. 17:49:07 So it would likely expand the canvas but not change the size of the image, or if the imag size was changed you get aliasing 17:49:33 that is not correct. 17:50:03 you don't resize a 'canvas' in this way 17:50:39 How do you resize it then? 17:50:56 in most graphics systems, if the window is resized, the OS asks you to repaint the contents. 17:52:04 So any vector information is in the code, not the canvas data structure? 17:52:36 some graphics APIs provide this 'canvas' you speak of 17:52:53 What do others provide? 17:53:01 just direct rendering 17:54:53 The functions which you call to directly render would output the results as a bitmap wouldnt they? 17:55:31 why do they have to? 17:55:50 in java, when you draw to the screen, you get a Graphics object with calls to render primitives. 17:55:59 when you print a document, you also get a Graphics object, but its a different subclass of the Graphics class, that outputs PostScript 17:56:23 ok 17:56:56 are you able to resize the Graphiocs object? 17:57:03 (Graphics) 17:57:05 no, its just an output stream 17:57:41 An output stream of what? Vector primitives or pixels? 17:57:57 no, conceptually. Graphics is an abtract class, with abstract methods. 17:58:13 so there's several subclasses. 17:58:23 So it is a context dependant output stream? 17:58:59 do you know OOP? 17:59:04 yes 17:59:06 its an abstract class, no more no less. 17:59:34 So it is a context dependant output stream? Im just making sure I am correct in my understanding. 17:59:53 no, it is an abstract class 18:00:15 Then how could you refer to an "output stream"? 18:00:52 * amca is confused by the apparent contradiction 18:01:01 in the sense that you never read any data from it, you just output graphics there. 18:02:09 my understanding is that a stream is like a queue of objects. Is that different to what you are talking about? 18:02:25 no, i just meant a stream as in something you send data to 18:02:44 Okay, so you meant it is /like/ and input stream as opposed to being one? 18:02:56 and = an input = output 18:04:10 i work on a very literal level and need figurative speech to be made explicit to me, sorry. 18:26:33 --- quit: ThinkingInBinary (Nick collision from services.) 18:27:27 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 20:11:38 --- join: segher_ (n=segher@dslb-084-056-137-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 20:24:47 --- quit: segher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:54:38 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:37:59 --- join: Cheery (n=Henri@a81-197-18-99.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 22:16:16 --- join: jungledog (n=jungledo@adsl-64-219-109-155.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 22:56:55 --- part: slava left #forth 23:54:52 --- part: jungledog left #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.02.05