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07:56:01 <snowrichard> hi
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18:17:41 <snowrichard> hi
18:17:48 <amca> ih
18:17:49 <amca> hi
18:18:33 <snowrichard> writing another interpreter/vm
18:19:02 <amca> you are?
18:21:12 <snowrichard> but not any more tonite.  I spent several hours on it earlier today. 
18:22:01 <amca> Ah
18:22:04 <amca> How did it go?
18:22:13 <amca> What type of vm is it?
18:22:46 <snowrichard> I have either a subroutine call, a conditional branch, or 5 instructions in a 32 bit word, with optional return. 
18:23:09 <amca> so a fvm then?
18:23:11 <snowrichard> so 6 bit opcodes in the packed words
18:23:20 <snowrichard> yea stack machine
18:24:04 <amca> do you have docs online for it?
18:24:16 <snowrichard> not yet, I'm writing an ebook to go with it as i go along
18:24:31 <snowrichard> (pdf)
18:24:59 * amca nods
18:25:08 <amca> what markup are you using?
18:25:25 <snowrichard> just open office, it prints to pdf
18:25:41 * amca nods
18:26:06 <amca> What lang you coding it in?
18:26:10 <snowrichard> C 
18:28:18 <amca> what machine-word/cell size are you using?
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18:28:33 <snowrichard> 32 bit
18:28:54 * amca nods
18:28:54 <Raystm2> Hi
18:29:01 * Raystm2 nods *
18:29:03 <amca> Hi ray
18:29:05 <snowrichard> hi
18:29:09 <Raystm2> Why am I nodding?
18:29:14 * Raystm2 looks back up the log.
18:29:24 <amca> Cause you are about to nod off? :)
18:29:35 <Raystm2> There is more truth to that then you know.
18:29:37 <snowrichard> I should :) 
18:29:40 <Raystm2> hehe
18:29:43 <amca> hehe
18:29:48 <snowrichard> but I took a nap at my mom's just now
18:30:01 <Raystm2> I've already put in a weeks worth of work and it's only Wednesday.
18:30:03 <snowrichard> I've been fighting  a cold
18:30:12 <Raystm2> I had that cold.
18:30:16 <amca> snowrichard: So you making a generic stack machine or a FVM stack machine?
18:30:25 <Raystm2> 3 or 4 weeks and I don't think its done yet.
18:30:45 * snowrichard not sure i know the difference?
18:31:28 <Raystm2> Forth vertual Machine ( FVM) vs. your-run-of-the-mill-stack-engine?
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18:32:05 <amca> Raystm2: Well the FVM is just one possible implementation of a stack VM
18:32:06 <Raystm2> reminds me. need to ask tathi and JasonWoof about FoViuM
18:32:20 <Raystm2> amca: agreed.
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18:33:49 <amca> snowrichard: So are you making a generic stack machine or a FVM stack machine?
18:35:04 <snowrichard> I was leaning toward forth
18:37:09 <amca> So with the 32 bit instructions, how were you going to implement the different inst. formats?
18:37:46 <snowrichard> last 2 bits have instruction type 00 sub, 01 cond branch, 10 5 instructions no return 11 5 with return
18:38:51 <amca> with return being an implied inst.?
18:38:57 <snowrichard> yes
18:39:21 <amca> so you will definately have a no-op I take it?
18:39:28 <snowrichard> 01
18:39:31 <snowrichard> hex 
18:41:22 <amca> Hmm...what type of instruction is the 10 and 11 instructions? Im guessing MIMD (Multiple Instruction Multiple Data) or is it MISD?
18:41:55 <snowrichard> Marshall independent school district ? :) 
18:42:01 <snowrichard> single data
18:42:04 <Raystm2> hehe
18:42:36 <amca> By definition, are all stack inst's SD?
18:43:06 <snowrichard> one is literal, with the literal being the next word.
18:43:31 * amca nods
18:44:13 <amca> So in your implementation, the sub/cond branch finds the condition and address on the stack?
18:44:52 <snowrichard> the address is in the instruction, the conditional branches if TOS is zero
18:45:29 <amca> addresses are relative?
18:45:52 <snowrichard> abs now, I am not sure if I'll change that
18:46:22 <snowrichard> they actually are array subscripts in the memory[] array
18:46:29 <amca> so it has a limit of 2^32 bytes access?
18:46:47 <amca> I mean 2^30
18:46:56 <snowrichard> I've got the memory size as a #define
18:47:16 <snowrichard> but yeah you could only branch to 2^30 if I didn't go relative
18:47:20 <amca> hmm...is there a Forth word for ^ (to the power to)
18:47:26 <snowrichard> phone
18:47:29 <amca> k
18:47:39 <Raystm2> no that's not it.
18:47:49 <amca> Raystm2: huh?
18:47:52 <Raystm2> hehe
18:48:04 <Raystm2> phone is not the forth word for exponentiation.
18:48:16 <snowrichard> wrong number ;) 
18:48:18 <Raystm2> hehe
18:48:28 <Raystm2> bad lit
18:48:57 <snowrichard> asked for Gwen
18:49:31 <snowrichard> or Glenn?  anyway he/she isn't here ;) 
18:50:55 <snowrichard> I'm having to use unix2dos to make my source code printable on windows.  It's a little inconvenient, but at least the program exists already. 
18:51:26 <amca> Raystm2: hehe. silly me
18:51:54 <amca> snowrichard: what are you using to print the code on win?
18:52:10 <snowrichard> notepad
18:52:46 <amca> Try using Wordpad - it copes with unix EOL's
18:53:20 <snowrichard> ok, I had copied it to .txt extension, and notepad is the default
18:55:08 <snowrichard> formats it ok though, filename at top, page number at bottom
18:55:25 <amca> Ah
18:55:42 * amca just opens Wordpad and drags the doc across to it
18:56:26 <snowrichard> use pscp to copy the files between win/linux
18:56:47 <amca> pscp?
18:56:56 <snowrichard> comes with putty ssh client
18:57:56 <amca> ah
18:58:28 <snowrichard> easier than setting up Samba though I may do that too
18:59:39 <snowrichard> this hp printer / scanner works as a printer with linux, but not as scanner.
18:59:59 <snowrichard> but samba doesn't work for printing over network
19:00:08 <amca> So what type are using for memory[]? char?
19:00:15 <snowrichard> memory int
19:01:30 <snowrichard> so I could have up to 2^30 integer words I guess. probably would never set it that high. 
19:01:49 <amca> hmm
19:02:38 <amca> Wont that make accessing characters in any FVM built on it harder?
19:02:56 <snowrichard> I'm plannning on having the end of the address space be a ROM area that is initialized at startup, for the basic system. 
19:03:11 <amca> like CHARS and CELLS wont be simple constants (well at least CHARS wont be will it?)
19:04:06 <snowrichard> you think byte addresses would be simpler? perhaps
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19:04:25 <snowrichard> nothing's written in stone yet
19:06:00 <Quartus> I advise writing nothing in stone. It's slow and it dulls the pen.
19:06:25 <amca> Quartus: What about if you use a brush or chisel? ;)
19:06:34 <amca> Quartus: How's business?
19:07:07 <Quartus> Going ok, thanks. How's yours?
19:07:32 <amca> Bleh. Just concentrating on staying alive currently
19:07:40 <Quartus> Keep at it.
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19:08:56 <amca> snowrichard: I just realised that probably 'C,' would be complex too. 
19:10:38 <amca> you could always do a union struct for memory[] and access it both ways
19:11:53 <snowrichard> have character oriented instructions use byte addresses, but leave instructions word aligned ?  
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19:12:33 * amca nods
19:12:37 <amca> something like that
19:13:31 <amca> that way you dont have to worry about shifting and modding/anding so much
19:14:21 * amca thought it was gonna be more complex than it was cause he was thinking arithmetic, not bit-twiddling
19:14:57 <snowrichard> yeah I've got operators for and/or/eor/>>/<</complement
19:17:34 <snowrichard> well at any rate its just for fun, if it gets to be to much work I don't have to finish it :) 
19:19:07 <snowrichard> to too two ... confusing :) 
19:19:17 <amca> What about the all important INTERLEAVE and SELECT operators?
19:20:02 <snowrichard> which are? 
19:20:13 <amca> I mean, what use is a VM if it doesnt natively support INTERCAL? ;)
19:20:29 <amca> http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/~sbg/intercal/intercal3.html#3.4.1
19:20:32 <snowrichard> don't know that 
19:21:32 <amca> O_O
19:21:40 <amca> You haven't heard of INTERCAL?
19:22:07 <snowrichard> sounds horribly confusign
19:22:12 <snowrichard> confusing even
19:22:21 <snowrichard> I would rather shift and mask
19:23:15 <amca> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL
19:23:27 <sproingie> what's an INTERCAL vm without COMEFROM?
19:23:55 <amca> sproingie: Point
19:24:58 <snowrichard> I see -- a joke language :) 
19:25:07 <sproingie> one of the original joke languages
19:25:39 <sproingie> i'm partial to unlambda ... a joke language with strong theory :)
19:26:08 <amca> Isn't it THE original joke lang?
19:27:05 <snowrichard> oh well. Think I'll switch to Paltalk for a while. Paltalk and my printer are the only reason I installed xp on this machine. but then I added webcam. 
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19:28:40 <amca> "User-defined functions can be created, but not saved or named, because Unlambda does not have any variables."
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19:37:20 <amca> sproingie: Have you done any coding in unlambda?
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