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14:54:27 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r! :)
14:54:33 <I440r> tbw!!
14:54:36 <I440r> ltns :)
14:54:40 <slava> hi
14:54:41 <I440r> how ya doing ?
14:54:45 <I440r> hi slava :)
14:54:56 <slava> I440r: does isforth run on os x/
14:55:05 <I440r> slava ya know i dont know!
14:55:10 <I440r> its basically just fbsd right ?
14:55:15 <I440r> with a new front end ?
14:55:19 <slava> the binary format is different
14:55:19 <I440r> so it might!
14:55:21 <slava> and system calls are different
14:55:25 <I440r> oh
14:55:25 <I440r> damn
14:55:28 <slava> the _userspace_ is bsd
14:55:33 <I440r> it could probably be ported to it
14:55:34 <slava> like /bin/ls and other stuff isforth doesn't carea bout :)
14:55:36 <slava> and i think the libc is bsd too
14:55:42 <slava> the kernel is mach
14:56:06 <I440r> i know some ppl who run osx, i could get them to try ity
14:56:13 <I440r> but it would probably need porting
14:57:19 <I440r> brb, getting coffee
14:58:42 <slava> i run os x
15:00:42 <I440r> then try isforth fbsd lol
15:00:45 <tathi> OS X doesn't use ELF
15:00:48 <I440r> tho it will probably not run :/
15:00:52 <I440r> oh
15:01:01 <I440r> will nasm run in osx ?
15:01:09 <tathi> nasm only assembles for x86
15:01:13 <I440r> can nasm drop binaries for osx ?
15:01:27 <I440r> isnt osx x86 ?
15:01:29 <tathi> nasm doesn't make binaries, only relocatable elf files
15:01:37 <I440r> i thunked fbsd was x86 only and osx was based on fbsd
15:01:53 <tathi> OS X runs on both now, I believe
15:01:55 <I440r> why wont osx load elf files
15:01:56 <I440r> thats stupid
15:02:04 <tathi> Apple is in the process of switching over to x86 from PPC.
15:02:05 <I440r> someone should make a patch
15:02:12 <I440r> ya
15:02:16 <I440r> macintel :)
15:02:56 <tathi> the kernel is mach, so it uses mach-o, not elf.
15:03:14 <I440r> it should still be able to load elf files
15:03:23 <tathi> well, syscalls are different anyway.
15:03:26 <I440r> linux can load miscelaneous file types 
15:03:42 <I440r> does osx have a R E A L assenbler ?
15:03:45 <I440r> i.e. NOT gas
15:03:53 <tathi> yeah, and BSDs in general are far better than Linux about that
15:03:58 <tathi> they use gas
15:04:02 <I440r> gas cannot be used to assemble anything as complex as the isforth kernel
15:04:19 <I440r> so isforth will not work on osx untill someone writes a real assembler for it
15:04:21 <tathi> but as near as I can tell Apple rewrote almost half of it.
15:04:28 <tathi> wtf are you talking about?
15:04:34 <tathi> IsForth/PPC uses gas
15:04:37 <I440r> oh yea
15:04:40 <I440r> you used gas
15:04:47 <I440r> i guess gas is only shitty on x86
15:05:07 <I440r> i cant use gas to get a forth kernel workin on my arm forth 
15:05:14 <tathi> it's not designed to be used by a human anywhere
15:05:16 <I440r> cant create the links
15:05:22 <I440r> i know
15:05:31 <slava> ppc gas is fine
15:05:39 <I440r> i.e. its the stinky REAR end to a crappy c compiler. its not an assembler
15:06:08 <docl> fasm is nice
15:06:14 <tathi> how are you trying to create the links?
15:06:32 <I440r> im not any more. im looking for an assembler for arm that WORKS
15:06:33 <I440r> lol
15:06:35 <tathi> oh...right.  If you give a symbol a relative value, then they all get the final value.
15:06:48 <I440r> yup
15:06:50 <tathi> I used the local labels thing for IsForth
15:07:05 <I440r> tried that too, couldnt get it to work
15:07:16 <tathi> really?  that's odd.
15:07:35 <slava> I440r: i ordered a quad cpu powermac with a 30" lcd screen
15:07:46 <I440r> how much ?
15:08:22 <I440r> tathi i tried for weeks to get a basic kernel with gas on my gba
15:08:35 <tathi> anyway, IsForth would need a new turnkey bit, and fix the syscalls for OS X.
15:08:48 <tathi> I keep thinking about doing it, but I don't have a machine to test on.
15:08:52 <I440r> ya
15:08:58 <slava> does os x even use syscalls or is it all done with mach message ports
15:09:12 <I440r> slava how much was your new box ?
15:09:24 <tathi> slava: oh, I don't know.  I've never really looked into it.
15:09:26 <slava> tathi: i don't want to give you a login on my mac mini because it is really sloooow. when the g5 arrives i can give you ssh
15:09:26 <docl> there's a fasm-arm project, http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=4191
15:09:47 <I440r> there is ?>
15:09:50 <slava> I440r: about 5 thousand, IIRC
15:09:57 <I440r> someone HALF ported nasm to arm
15:09:58 <slava> I440r: i don't have the quote in front of me right now
15:10:04 <I440r> called it narm but it wont drop binaries
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15:10:13 <I440r> slava is rich!
15:10:16 <I440r> lol
15:10:31 <jungledog> I440r: hey, guess who. :)
15:10:34 <tathi> I440r: well, if you don't have any luck finding another assembler, you might have a look at my header macro from IsForth/PPC
15:10:37 <I440r> thats one grand per CPU plus another grand :)
15:10:45 <I440r> jungledog, erm... no idea lol
15:10:50 <slava> I440r: the screen is 2000$ hehe
15:11:00 <slava> I440r: i get a discount because my employer has ADC membership
15:11:03 <I440r> thati i didnt think of that at the time lol
15:11:16 <I440r> slava sweet!
15:11:22 <I440r> that must be one hell of a monitor :)
15:11:25 <jungledog> I440r: brb, switching to a different irc client...
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15:12:00 <tathi> those monitors are gorgeous
15:12:04 <I440r> aha thats someone in longview texas.. thats either dwight or kevin :)
15:12:14 <I440r> its dwight!
15:13:36 <slava> I440r: apple is switching to x86 btw
15:13:41 <slava> and not x86-64... just x86
15:13:42 <slava> arg
15:13:44 <I440r> slava i know
15:13:54 <I440r> x86-64 isnt worth it yet
15:13:59 <I440r> maybe in 2 or 3 years
15:14:00 <slava> oh come on
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15:14:08 <slava> it has 8 new integer registers, 8 new sse registers, and IP-relative addressing mode
15:14:09 <I440r> dwight! lol
15:14:14 <I440r> i had to /whowas you to see lol
15:14:31 <jungledog> yes
15:14:50 <I440r> i saw th elongview texas whois and figured it was either you or kevin. the dschauer gave it away :)
15:15:01 <jungledog> he he...
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16:00:52 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
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17:16:30 <jungledog> Well, I trimmed the capslock key down on my keyboard and swapped it with the ctrl key
17:16:45 <jungledog> I like ctrl below tab better
17:40:06 <JasonWoof> jungledog: do you have an old nick I might know?
17:40:47 <jungledog> JasonWoof: Maybe. I forgot my password to my Hyrax nick.
17:41:34 <JasonWoof> no bells
17:41:48 <JasonWoof> ahh well. Glad to hear other people are  messing with their keyboards though
17:41:54 <jungledog> I've not been on irc in about 9 months.
17:42:29 <JasonWoof> I popped  most of the keys off mine and put them back in the dvorak arrangement
17:42:45 <JasonWoof> did you miss it?
17:42:51 <jungledog> I have a 1984 model M. One that I use, and another one for spares.
17:43:29 <jungledog> No, I did not really miss irc, but I enjoy being back on it.
17:46:21 <JasonWoof> :)
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19:15:47 <Quartus> Model M is a nice beast.
19:17:46 <jungledog> Yeah, have not found any new keyboards that feel the same.
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