00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.01.13 00:50:49 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 03:18:53 --- quit: nballen () 04:14:54 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth 04:15:26 --- part: aum left #forth 04:38:30 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:39:30 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-3pool158-39.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:51:11 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-18-99.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 06:32:50 --- join: EtherNet_Work (n=EtherNet@OL240-101.fibertel.com.ar) joined #forth 06:55:27 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-57-67.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 07:10:12 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:14:11 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 07:16:15 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-59.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:35:48 --- join: sproingie (n=chuck@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 07:56:30 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-57-67.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 08:13:42 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:14:21 --- join: bbls (n=bbls@81.180.7.4) joined #forth 08:14:25 hello 08:14:37 for whatever reason i go away from forth 08:14:47 and always come back after 1 month or so :) 08:34:15 Influence from the dark side, I think. 08:34:35 :) 08:35:18 is there any advanced forth-like langauge other than factor? 08:35:39 huh? 08:35:46 "advanced" means dick 08:36:25 ok, whatever 08:36:27 do you know any? 08:36:34 figforth, gforth, pfe, etc, etc: and then - we still don't know wtf you mean. 08:37:03 "why is the sky blue, daddy?" 08:37:21 have you checked factor? 08:37:35 nope 08:37:43 too many variants to track 08:37:58 well it's not a "variant" 08:38:10 ..and, I don't much care for variants that can't work with C 08:38:12 it's a major product 08:38:20 and i'm sure it can work with C 08:38:22 then I am still not intersted 08:38:25 since it has SDL support 08:38:49 "product" denotes sales - and SDL I could care less about 08:38:59 ok 08:39:20 it's not commercial btw 08:51:08 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:03:06 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-57-114.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:10:06 --- join: Raystm2- (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-93-123-250.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:10:49 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:19:30 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:22:59 --- join: virl (i=core@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 09:23:22 hi 09:29:49 morning virl 09:46:33 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 09:46:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 09:54:44 --- quit: sproingie ("Leaving") 10:00:48 bbls: I don't really know about any other advanced forth-like languages 10:02:02 though I someone in #concatenative might know of something that I don't 10:02:15 hmm 10:03:01 Well, Joy, but I gather Factor is better :) 10:03:52 :) 10:04:20 i'm too designing a language :) 10:04:25 pure functional OOP 10:04:31 but i'm always looking for ideas 10:04:39 cool 10:04:44 how far along is it? 10:05:24 well i can generate unoptimised x86 code :) 10:06:10 you doing like factor - runtime in C, plus an image file? or...? 10:06:13 but my main concern is design 10:06:18 no 10:06:24 there is no interpreted runtime 10:06:31 it's compiled to x86 opcodes 10:06:43 (i have one interpreted version but that's a little bit older) 10:06:52 this one compiles directly to x86 code 10:06:58 it generates an .exe 10:07:07 bbls: have you looked at smalltalk? 10:07:12 JasonWoof yes 10:07:18 and at #io too 10:07:21 cool 10:07:24 i preffer prototype OOP 10:07:40 over class based objects 10:07:47 it's so much more natural.. 10:07:55 ah, very nice 10:08:01 I just think smalltalk has neat ideas in it worth considering 10:08:08 what are those ideas? 10:08:21 yeah, I keep thinking about doing a stack-based language with prototype OOP 10:08:34 hmm 10:08:34 but so far it's still vaporware 10:08:40 there are a load of "neat ideas" 10:08:41 my memory of smalltalk is foggy, but the thing that stands out is the idea that code snippets (such as the an "else claus") are objects 10:08:56 well that's what #io has too 10:09:00 err 10:09:09 why i'm using # in front of io?:) 10:09:14 I don't know if it's practical, but it's interesting :) 10:09:20 check out io 10:09:25 it's nicer than smalltalk 10:09:26 folks need to STOP that "compiles directly" crap 10:09:36 PoppaVic for what reason 10:09:37 ? 10:09:42 ..this is why I get soo goddamned bugged 10:09:46 I'd probably have learned more of smalltalk if the squeek gui wasn't so horrid 10:10:05 like MSFT running a heavy "portable" VM on top on x86, and x86 being the only machine that runs windows? :) 10:10:18 PoppaVic: you must admit that the alternatives to compiling directly kinda suck... 10:10:27 PoppaVic that has nothing to do with the language. there are plenty of languages with runtime checks even if they are compiled to native code 10:10:49 compiling is indirect: asm is direct. 10:11:07 i generate .asm and i pass it to gnu as :) 10:11:16 I just think we are allowing terms and flavors to get out of hand 10:12:26 Folks pretending to "compile direct" should review other platforms, assemblers and then gcc "intermediate files" 10:12:50 ? 10:12:54 what are you talking about 10:13:00 So you're ok with the notion of going from source->binary, you just want a whole bunch of steps in between. 10:13:08 ..I just think we are missing bets all OVER because folks feel they are "cute" to lay-down opcodes and actually asm a binary 10:13:32 PoppaVic there is no reason not to do it 10:13:42 (as long as you limit yourself to 1 platform) 10:13:45 Quartus: not really, but at LEAST 1 step 10:13:52 Cute? Sure. My key motivation in making Quartus Forth a native-code direct compiler was that I wanted it to be 'cute'. 10:14:19 bbls: Ive never found a reason to write a beast for A, that did not suggest adding it over on B 10:14:35 ok. i'm lost 10:14:39 Me too. 10:14:40 please be more coherent 10:14:52 could you rephrase? 10:14:57 Quartus: yer talking about a tight, closed, target-platform: and I applaud the work 10:15:59 I'd do the same for a native-code Forth on any platform. 10:16:06 bbls: hmm... I've spent too much time coding to suffer the insanities of "well, over here we do FOO" or "gee, we can compact with a .so and then we can port..." 10:16:18 Quartus: of COURSE you would 10:16:26 I never argued that at all 10:16:52 i preffer to have one compiler for each platform than a compiler for all platforms 10:16:57 "[13:10] folks need to STOP that "compiles directly" crap" 10:17:10 ok, then I have no comment, bbls - have fun. 10:17:27 so far, i'm going with x86 10:17:32 Quartus: I never meant for platform-specific-tagets 10:17:36 targets 10:17:52 have fun, boys 10:17:57 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 10:18:03 I miss him already. 10:18:14 i don't understand his problem? 10:18:18 You're not alone. 10:18:21 he doesn't like my language? 10:18:25 don't use it then 10:18:26 no 10:18:33 then? 10:18:44 he doesn't like native code? 10:18:45 he just likes to comment 10:18:52 then disable it on his system :) 10:19:00 and I don't think I've ever seen him say anything positive 10:19:07 hehe :) 10:19:30 are you trying an imperative or functional language? 10:19:33 All I can say is when you've got a metal plate in your skull, you shouldn't sit so near the microwave when it's operating. 10:19:40 lol 10:19:50 because i'm still looking forward for new ideas on how i can match better pure functional with OOP :) 10:20:02 ah, imperative 10:20:18 * tathi has come to programming from a fairly low-level direction 10:20:41 whats the io programming language? and where can it be found? 10:20:46 iolanguage.com 10:21:53 so in spite of having a bachelor's degree in math, I haven't really wrapped my head around all the "advanced" stuff yet. 10:22:04 ah 10:22:13 i dislike those "advanced" stuff 10:22:29 a la haskell :) 10:23:43 hmm 10:24:40 haskell, well not really interesting. 10:24:56 hmm io has a nice gui toolkit 10:35:54 I don't have a plate in my head, but I had a closed head injury before :) 10:36:38 :) 10:38:52 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 10:39:09 basic :) 10:39:09 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 10:39:26 snowrichard, it's the plate that draws the microwaves. :) 10:39:29 i need a good monospaced serif font 10:39:32 what could i use? 10:40:08 bbls, Bitstream Vera Sans Mono 10:40:16 oops. That's a sans. 10:40:19 beside that :) 10:40:26 hmm, yeah 10:40:29 courier ;) 10:40:40 no, not typewriter 10:40:45 serif 10:40:46 heh 10:40:46 Monaco. 10:40:55 monaco? 10:40:56 I always thought courier was uuuugly 10:41:26 monaco doesn't seem like serif for me :) 10:42:59 bbls, no coffee in me yet. 10:43:02 Sorry. :) Lucida Console? 10:43:28 hmm 10:43:29 no 10:43:37 somethig more like times new roman :) 10:45:50 I didn't think there were many monospaced serif fonts 10:46:16 that's what i think too :) 10:46:18 Yes, they all wind up looking like Courier variants. 10:47:20 this nimbus mono looks like a typewriter too 10:47:55 maybe i should try one of those old VGA fonts :) 10:48:22 you looking for something free? 10:48:25 i have found a tool that converts them in something windows can use 10:48:32 tathi obviously :) 10:49:02 but what would you suggest something commercial? 10:49:25 I just remember my grandfather using a monospace font to typeset something, but I assume it was commercial. 10:49:32 ic 10:49:39 "Schoolbook" something, maybe. 10:49:45 * tathi googles 10:49:45 http://www.lucasfonts.com/ -- the Sans Typewriter 10:50:14 oh right, Century Schoolbook 10:50:19 take a look at this screnshoot: 10:50:32 http://www.geocities.com/icfarcas/colorscheme.png 10:50:36 how does it look? 10:51:11 Century Schoolbook doesn't look very good :) 10:51:16 Readable. 10:51:17 i have it on my machine 10:51:40 it's not very readabl either, at least with windows renderer 10:51:57 The screen shot you just posted, you mean? Readable for my eyes. 10:52:13 ah 10:52:21 i've tried hard to find something good 10:52:26 what about color scheme? 10:52:27 What's that one? 10:52:47 bitstream vera serif 10:52:56 the IDE knows to render it as pseudo-mono 10:53:14 I often work in proportional fonts when coding. 10:58:31 bbls: that screenshot doesn't appear to use a fixed-width font 10:58:39 i've also discovered the wonder of large fonts :) 10:58:44 JasonWoof it's proportional 10:58:58 JasonWoof rendered as pseudo-mono 10:59:07 hmm 10:59:08 or not? :) 10:59:15 is my vision letting me down? :) 10:59:23 haha 10:59:26 it's proportional 10:59:31 i always tought it's mono 10:59:37 because it looks so uniform :) 10:59:43 I must say I'm a big fan of -Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--20-200-75-75-C-100-ISO10646-1 10:59:59 no serifs though 11:00:40 XTerm*font: 10x20 11:01:03 initially i used small fonts 11:01:15 trying to cram as much text as possible on the screen 11:01:20 but now i see that i was wrong :) 11:01:20 heh 11:01:32 it's soo much more readable this way 11:01:32 I find I can only read a small amount of text at once ;) 11:01:56 I get 128x51 chars with that 10x20 font 11:02:15 what res? 11:02:22 1280x1024 11:02:25 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 11:02:33 is 1280x1024 4/3? 11:02:34 I have Ion using the top 4 pixels for tabs 11:02:45 just 4 pixels? 11:02:59 5/4 11:03:04 yeah 11:03:30 xterm won't fill odd numbers of pixels. it makes sure it's window sizes are in increments of the font size 11:03:53 err, I think you mean rxvt 11:04:06 drove me up the wall that I couldn't paste 1/4 of the time because the mouse was at the bottom of the screen 11:04:18 so I decided to make the tabs either 24 pixels tall or 4 11:04:25 24 seemed like a waste 11:04:40 :) 11:04:49 tathi: I'm assuming rxvt does the same thing, but I haven't tested it 11:04:57 I tried 24 for a while 11:05:59 JasonWoof: oh, ok. Last I checked, xterm was buggy and let the window be any size. 11:06:08 oh 11:06:09 huh 11:06:20 I was getting a partial row of text hanging off the bottom of my screen 11:06:30 heh 11:06:40 stupid, stupid rat creatures 11:08:53 speaking of terminals... 11:09:05 I've been thinking again of changing the API to the terminal emulator I built into fovium 11:09:33 so you can do term-move at pixel-level accuracy 11:10:14 I was wondering if you were going to want that 11:10:32 I've started on the new editor 11:10:41 and I want to highlight the whole current definition 11:10:57 with an underline, or box around it or something 11:11:27 and at some point I want to try underlining control constructs 11:12:06 : foo 1- if bar then . ; 11:12:06 --------- 11:13:25 : foo 34 for ? 0if drop ; then 1- next . ; 11:13:25 ------------- 11:13:25 --------------------------- 11:13:45 but I want them to take up much less space of course 11:16:19 I'm also thinking a bit about some offscreen video memory 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