00:00:00 --- log: started forth/06.01.06 01:09:28 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:12:01 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-47-85.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 02:06:16 --- join: garfield59 (n=Garfield@p54856D0F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:15:22 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-18-99.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 02:35:04 --- join: Topaz (n=top@spc1-horn1-6-0-cust127.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 03:07:14 --- quit: nballen () 03:57:47 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 04:44:08 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 04:49:05 --- quit: Topaz (Remote closed the connection) 04:51:19 --- join: saon (i=1000@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth 05:40:26 Morning. 05:45:23 morning 05:48:30 what're you up to? 05:51:38 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool73-92.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:53:31 IRCing. 05:53:46 And slowly doing some research. 05:54:06 research on what? 06:02:57 Algorithms to find a square root modulo a prime, when the prime is congruent to 1 mod 4. 06:03:16 Need it for some code, and to create a wikipedia article. 06:27:08 --- nick: Cheery -> ignore 06:27:16 --- nick: ignore -> Cheery 06:47:07 --- quit: garfield59 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:53:53 --- join: sproingie (n=chuck@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 06:55:41 --- join: Serg[GPRS] (n=Miranda@ppp85-140-28-158.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 06:56:19 hi ! who of you are USA citizens ? 06:57:37 most of us, probably 06:57:58 does the GPRS mean you're irc'ing over a cell phone? 07:40:05 --- join: Topaz (n=top@wlan-221.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 07:50:10 i was ;)) now i got ADSL, but nick remained 07:51:05 so, about USA: is it true what USA Constitution declares right for armed rebellion if gov-ment goes wrong ? 07:52:37 Not exactly, but close. 07:54:37 The Founding Fathers were well-aware "Americans" might well suffer the same problems that began the whole mess. 07:55:54 ..naturally, the folks in D.C. are sorta' forgetful of that, but would LOVE to screw it up. 07:56:43 hmm, are where an exact quotation in some serious writing about that "right of rebellion" ? 07:57:11 --- nick: Serg[GPRS] -> Serg_Penguin 07:57:18 It's mostly implied by official and unofficial docs. Lincoln already obviated at least 1 Right. 07:58:18 hmm, i want to provide exact quotation to local, RU speaking enemies of liberty ;)) 07:59:05 heh.. Well, some of the FF wrote memoires (?) and books; Then you've got the Bill Of Rights, and the constitution. 07:59:21 the latter is pretty well unreadable, nowadays. 08:00:14 hmm, i read the cUSA Constitution, but careful search revealed nothing like i need. or did i forgot some synonym ? 08:00:51 Bad enough The Const-Convention override SOME of the Rights; then, Lincoln override a few perogatives. THe states and such have been giving away even more over the last century. 08:01:24 Serg_Penguin: you prolly need related-docs that speak to "intents", rather than what the bastards forced-thru 08:02:09 hmm, now i'm afraid what USA turns Stalin-way inside and Hitler-way outside 08:02:33 I'd object to the latter, but the former seems likely. 08:03:04 The thing fornats forget is: "Americans" are not DC or WhiteHouse, 08:03:40 it's "patriotic" paranoya upsets me much more than bombings of Serbia and Iraq 08:03:43 ..we've almost no say/clue wtf the feds do "outside", on the whole - until the media exposes shit. 08:04:46 yeah, let's cease this argument, coz it may lead to flaming 08:04:56 well, "patriotic" is easy to resolve... We still respect and have a gut-feel for the IDEA of what the USA meant - unfortunately, no one wantsto agree; 50+% is stupid, and the feds are just - the feds. 08:05:07 np. 08:05:57 Personally, I find "Globalization" and such to be a joke, and would gladly ignore most of "the world". 08:06:28 ..hell, I ignore most of the US - I see the same silliness all over 08:07:04 so where's no exact quote on rebellion, but a need to dig lotsa books ? how pity ! my political/philosophical skill of English is not so good ;(( 08:07:59 Yeah. THe idea was the 2nd-amendment/BoR allowed all the citizens to retain their weapons - knowing a new "King" was possible, and NOT desireable. 08:08:40 Study of the Bill-Of-Rights, and some assorted docs might help. I dunno' what else to tell you. 08:09:12 Basically, you have to set yer head in the space of all the citizens of the time. 08:10:08 Amusingly, I watch daily news that makes me think that the folks in DC are really forgetting their history. 08:11:37 maybe they never knew the history ? 08:12:59 I have to presume they either "wish" or "dream" a lot, or they are - (no suprise) - damned-fools. 08:13:30 I have to admit, the latest RU/ukraine stuff has made me chuckle. 08:15:30 brb - Ma' needs the phone... 08:15:34 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 08:23:26 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool236-27.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:36:09 PoppaVic: "right for armed rebellion" is implied in the declaration of independence. that whole "when in the course of human events" stuff 08:36:47 right, I was telling him that most was "implied", and why/where: he wanted direct quotes/sources 08:37:14 PoppaVic: and that was under "the establishment of an absolute tyrany". far as i can tell, we're getting the government that we voted for. or didn't 08:38:04 well-heeled demagogues that manipulated the people and the government to their own ends were complained about back in Athens 08:39:34 Yep, I'm sure they have 08:39:50 The "we" part sorta' irks me though 08:40:23 there's a difference between armed rebellion as last resort and waving one's guns around as a tool of democracy 08:40:37 There are several "issues" with the current mess. And, hell yes: I agree. 08:41:01 too many gun nuts i've been around are about bullshit macho posturing regarding the latter 08:41:16 Flag-burners and gun-wavers, or "yer picking on my homeland" folks are of near-zero interest. 08:41:46 sproingie: alas, folks would blame the gun/tool, rather than the wielders. 08:42:38 sproingie: I have to admit, though: watching the news _daily_ is depressing in the extreme. 08:42:41 well, it's orthogonal to gun control in this argument 08:42:55 orttho lawn-control? 08:43:40 There seems to be little relation to owning a firearm (legally) and being a dumbass, though. 08:43:47 in fact, it's notable that the declaration doesn't even mention rebellion through arms 08:43:59 Mostly, it looks like religious/political 08:44:01 of course there weren't many illusions at that time that it would take anything less 08:44:10 Right. 08:44:19 It was almost entirely implied. 08:44:44 well, ben franklin tried diplomacy all the way up til the shooting started 08:44:56 and even after, really 08:45:16 yeah, and ben - afaik - never picked up a firearm or put his ass on the line. 08:45:38 interesting spin 08:45:59 Some folks are talkers, and they serve a purpose - I admit; and others get dirty. 08:46:20 he was a gout ridden old man who went back and forth through rather treacherous waters to repeatedly seek audience with a king who liked to hang traitors 08:46:46 ..and he liked to get laid - and np, he served his porpoises. 08:47:09 he got the french to bankroll the war ... and had a pretty good time in france during 08:47:34 Frankly, we HAD a "USA" before we GOT a "USA", and it's that change and following changes that sorta' worry me. 08:48:08 Not enough "worry" where I listen to fornat rants, mind you... But.. Worrisome. 08:48:22 i'm leaning to letting the south secede again 08:48:29 good riddance. arividerci 08:48:31 I'd agree 08:48:54 If the states want to "balkanize", I'd STILL agree 08:49:43 ..somwhere along the line, the christians and feds decided they are the "last bastion of Faith/the-USA" - It's all sorta' messy and irksome. 08:50:20 I've tolerance for ANY religion - limited,but then: I agree - it doesn't belong in government. 08:50:45 ah correction, the declaration rumbles about force at the end 08:50:51 We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends. 08:51:15 more like "if you want war, you got it" 08:51:20 Every time I see more whacky-Iraqi crap about religious foo-foo, I see reflections in our own news. 08:51:35 sproingie: sounds about right. 08:51:55 josh kornbluth has a great one-man show called Ben Franklin: Unplugged 08:52:06 Never heard of 'im 08:52:16 he looks just like ben franklin' 08:53:02 http://www.joshkornbluth.com/ 08:53:07 all text tho 08:53:22 here we go: http://blogs.kqed.org/joshkornbluth/ 08:53:34 about his talk show ... which is actually regrettably quite awful 08:53:40 I *try* to stay neutral.. I don't vote anymore, and I try to bother not a person. I reload and shoot, and program, and read. I don't attend any organized religion and I TRY to be tolerant and even curious. I can't see how this is "BAD", but I sure am getting depressed anymore. 08:53:44 he does better when he's the only one talking 08:54:47 Hell, I can't even decide if the feds and LA-state are nuts, anymore. 08:55:04 i vote locally, but at some point i see the numbers and don't bother with national when it's winner-take-all 08:55:13 The feds are PROBABLY out-of-control, but the rest just sorta' irks me. 08:55:37 i live in san francisco, which is not exactly going to turn republican anytime soon 08:55:50 I think one of our probs is the 50+% crap 08:56:22 they talk so super-generic, it makes no sense when yer sober. 08:56:23 proportional representation has its own set of problems 08:56:46 I can see L. Neil Smiths view, as well as a few other books. 08:57:10 If you can't polarize 90% or more of the folks, leave shit the hell alone. 08:57:55 yech 08:58:13 iconoclasm as a way of life doesn't sound effective 08:58:18 at least not politically 08:59:01 crap, getting late ... gotta go 08:59:36 laters, sproingie 09:03:36 --- quit: Topaz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:09:07 --- part: Serg_Penguin left #forth 09:24:10 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 09:24:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 09:42:58 --- nick: saon -> _none_ 09:43:03 --- nick: _none_ -> saon 10:09:21 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:59:14 --- join: virl (i=core@62.178.85.149) joined #forth 11:23:16 --- join: nballen (n=nballen@adsl-69-111-249-96.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net) joined #forth 11:39:15 --- quit: madgarden ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 11:39:54 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577807.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 11:48:40 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-184-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 11:57:00 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) 11:57:04 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:09:53 --- quit: Quartus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:35:50 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 14:16:59 --- nick: Raystm2 -> tiff 14:37:11 --- part: Cheery left #forth 14:53:19 --- join: rabbitwhite (n=roger@136.160.192.76) joined #forth 14:54:55 --- quit: rabbitwhite (Client Quit) 15:19:27 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-124.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 17:05:28 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:46:48 --- nick: tiff -> nanstm 18:28:11 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 18:53:20 --- quit: amca (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:09:18 --- join: crc_ (i=crc@69.46.24.28) joined #forth 19:09:19 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:31:24 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 20:57:30 --- quit: sproingie (Remote closed the connection) 21:53:55 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-3-124.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 22:10:54 * amca wonders why the top forth word isn't usually "start" by convention 22:36:10 instead of "quit" you mean? 22:36:52 "quit" is the interpreter top word isnt it? 22:36:59 I mean for Forth apps 22:37:10 I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "top word" 22:37:15 It's generally selectable in turnkey systems. 22:37:37 Quartus: Like for example in Quartus Forth, why "go" as opposed to "start"? 22:37:51 It's not fixed. You can pass any xt to MakePRC. 22:37:59 * amca nods 22:38:45 'go' is shorter to type than 'start', which is a factor under Graffiti. 22:39:01 I see. 22:39:04 Fair enough 22:39:21 t is the one I usually use during development. Even shorter. 22:39:37 T for....? 22:39:46 For nothing at all. 22:39:58 lol 22:40:17 Maybe "True". As in running status is... 22:40:28 :) 22:40:30 No, for nothing at all. It's just a one-stroke graffiti character that isn't otherwise used for anything. 22:40:37 * amca nods 22:40:39 fair enough 22:41:50 Just I was trying to think of the best generic word for a forth app, so that you can just load a forth source and know what to type to run it, and I thought that "start" was the best option I could think of, as it kind of means "beginning" as well as "go" 22:43:01 I was trying to think of the most intuitive word for it. Im not saying it is, but it is the best I came up with 22:43:20 If you need an app to start when you load it, put its startup code in the source. 22:43:53 * amca nods 22:44:13 I was thinking more of when Forth is also used as a shell, which is what I sometimes do with gforth 22:47:41 heh 22:47:44 I use t all the time 22:47:49 ./t generallly 22:48:09 JasonWoof: Why do you use t? 22:48:16 short for test 22:48:24 Ah :) 22:48:27 but has come to mean "make it go now" 22:48:44 hehe 22:49:01 JasonWoof: So maybe my "True" idea is applicable there lol 22:53:58 oh hey JasonWoof. 22:54:01 Hi Quartus :) 22:54:13 wasn't aware everyone is here :) 22:54:41 Quartus: How is work? What you working on currently? 22:58:15 Work's going well; writing some tutorials. 22:58:25 Hi Raystm2. 23:01:09 go takes two hands and start takes only the left hand , but that may not be an issue in you situation. /me is reading the back post. 23:02:52 amca, loading the app should start it. 23:03:24 Hmm. I see 23:03:56 for instance start might be defined, : start 21 load ; 23:04:09 hi Raystm2, thought you went to bed 23:04:15 and on block 21 will be all the defs to start things up. 23:04:38 Ya, I know. got overtime tonight AND tomorrow, I need sleep, just can't do it. 23:05:05 ever get that way. 23:05:06 ? 23:05:11 need sleep, can't do it? 23:07:16 and an application starting word needs to be a combination that can't get executed by mistake. just to make things safe. 'go' is good for that I suppose. tho many words might start with G and O. 23:07:57 BUT not likely in your dictionary. 23:08:00 Quartus: What are you writing tutes for? 23:08:11 Ya, good ? 23:08:57 amca, CM tends to use OK for his starting word. 23:09:22 That way, when he starts an app it always overwrites the last OK word. 23:09:32 Raystm2: Ah, I thought he used that for his test word 23:09:35 shit not overwrites... 23:09:42 but over somethings..,,,, 23:10:09 * amca understands 23:10:13 overscopes? :) 23:23:10 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:24:22 :) 23:24:29 ya overscopes . 23:24:43 hehe 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/06.01.06