00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.12.18
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07:06:38 <PoppaVic> "Black Humor" := "folks that evince interest in a project and then disappear"
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09:36:10 <crc> hello everyone
09:40:20 <PoppaVic> howdy "bozo"
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12:22:44 <Astrobe> Hi.
12:22:49 <crc> hi Astrobe 
12:23:23 <Astrobe> hi crc
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12:42:37 <Astrobe> hi segher_
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13:17:10 <Astrobe> crc: how lucky you are, you've been 'forked' :)
13:17:18 <crc> oh?
13:18:46 <Astrobe> Saw that in Retro's wiki.
13:18:53 <crc> ahh, yes
13:18:55 <crc> several times
13:19:11 <sproingie> retro's had lots of forks
13:19:13 * crc is involved (to various degrees) with the many forks of Retro
13:19:26 <sproingie> reva's a pretty decent one
13:19:44 <sproingie> it more or less tracks rf but aims at speed
13:19:52 <sproingie> has some syntax differences
13:20:28 <Astrobe> Nevermind, just found the idea funny; and I guess it makes a maintainer happy too.
13:20:42 <Astrobe> Not always I guess however
13:20:51 <crc> I don't mind
13:21:20 <Astrobe> It seems that you like blocks; I am right?
13:22:01 <crc> for some things, yes
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13:23:09 <crc> hi Ray
13:23:29 <Astrobe> When I ported 4IM to C, I found two interesting block primitives (maybe someone has discovered them before)
13:23:43 <Astrobe> hey ray.
13:23:52 <Raystm2> do you know I thought I was connected all week end but I wasn't :(
13:23:54 <Raystm2> Hi 
13:24:00 <Raystm2> just thought it was a quite weekend. 
13:24:20 <Astrobe> BLKIN ( n addr -- ) loads block n at address
13:24:27 <Raystm2> good to see Astrobe :)
13:24:56 <Astrobe> BLKOUT ( n addr -- ) writes buffer at address to block n of blockfile or disk
13:25:34 <Raystm2> Whoa, i just coded something like that in Glypher called "keep" and "peek".
13:25:58 <Astrobe> Raystm2: it have been a long time ( does that really mean something in english? )
13:26:10 <Raystm2> keep is like save
13:26:14 <Raystm2> peek is like look 
13:26:33 <Raystm2> keep and peek are mirror works they spell eachother backwards.
13:26:55 <Astrobe> something like a hybrid block/file access
13:27:07 <Raystm2> yes.
13:27:09 <crc> I load all the blocks into a buffer
13:27:14 <Raystm2> only i'm able to set ranges
13:27:17 <Astrobe> keep / peek :) slick! :)
13:27:19 <crc> same thing I do with files
13:27:23 <Raystm2> yes
13:27:26 <Raystm2> cool.
13:28:00 <Astrobe> ranges?
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13:28:17 <Raystm2> Range of blocks or range inside a block.
13:29:03 <Astrobe> so you can do "sub-block" access?
13:29:12 <crc> generally I have 64 or 128 blocks to a blockfile (64 is my most common number now)
13:29:31 <crc> Raystm2: so you're still working with Glypher?
13:29:49 <Raystm2> yeah, it's easy to prototype colorforth with glypher.
13:29:55 <crc> cool
13:29:58 <Raystm2> less wait time.
13:30:20 * crc hasn't run glypher since switching to FreeBSD; the Windows-only requirement is kind of steep for me ;)
13:30:32 <Raystm2> yeah.
13:31:15 <Raystm2> Astrobe, I'm treating my very first attempt at an editor as a version of *P ' ' *.
13:31:32 <Raystm2> P ' ' reads a P prime prime.
13:32:06 <Raystm2> the smallest turing complete language I know of. sort of a version of BrianF*ck.
13:32:20 <Raystm2> treats all of mem as a string.
13:32:45 <Raystm2> block references are only for my convenience and for display acrobatics.
13:32:45 <Astrobe> ? it's the name of the editor, is it?
13:33:09 <Raystm2> P ' ' is currenly the name of the editor as well, yes.
13:33:28 <Raystm2> Only i'm calling it "Peak prime prime.
13:33:43 <Astrobe> got it, it is a programming language and an editor.
13:33:53 <Raystm2> yes
13:34:00 <Raystm2> and written in the editor of Glypher.
13:34:12 <Raystm2> soon to move to colorforth.
13:34:28 <Raystm2> It can handle a string as large as you memory.
13:34:40 <Raystm2> no limitations.
13:34:41 <Astrobe> is it a "stacked" BF?
13:34:47 <Raystm2> yes
13:35:00 <Raystm2> with lots of forth shortcuts.
13:35:04 <Raystm2> of course.
13:35:18 <Raystm2> wouldn't want you to tap + too many times ;)
13:36:04 <Astrobe> is there a spec or something online already?
13:36:08 <Raystm2> but the only wat to load the characters you can type into memory the first time, is to load them into a block indiivdually with +
13:36:19 <Raystm2> google P prime prime.
13:36:24 <Raystm2> wait
13:36:39 <Raystm2> google wikipedia:: P prime prime.
13:37:49 <Raystm2> http://r.s.home.mindspring.com/F/ ive been reading this.
13:39:22 <Raystm2> I'm of the current opinion that this gives forth an easy lambda calculus mechanism, for my ChuckBot programable cursor programs.
13:40:04 <Raystm2> I'm experimenting with it. But alas I'm not the scientist of the level of a crc or Astrobe :)
13:41:59 <Astrobe> Don't be a fool... :)
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13:42:24 <Raystm2> I am the fool, The perfect description of the fool. :)
13:42:35 <Raystm2> Ever read Taro?
13:43:04 <Astrobe> No?
13:43:27 <virl> what did Astrobe so that he is at a scientist level?
13:43:29 <Raystm2> I did, when I was interested in codeing card games. Taro is the history of cards and there supposed meanings.
13:44:04 <Raystm2> virl: you , crc, Astrobe, all have many more hours of codeing and experimenting then I have.
13:45:47 <Astrobe> Here, there's the card game Tarot. often used by 'mediums' and such, to foresee the future.
13:46:02 <Raystm2> yeah that's it.
13:46:40 <Raystm2> and I'm the description of the Fool in tarot, One foot on the ground, one in the air ( sometimes over a precipice) .
13:46:55 <Raystm2> It's not a bad thing.
13:47:03 <Raystm2> It's a way of looking at life.
13:48:22 <Raystm2> fools can be eternal optomists.
13:48:23 <Astrobe> The symbol of risk?
13:48:30 <Raystm2> right.
13:48:52 <Raystm2> only risk i've taken lately is that maybe i'd like to be a forth coder for a living.
13:49:54 <Astrobe> I like the sentence of one of our philosopher, Michel Serre (perhaps you know his name cause he teaches in the US):
13:50:15 <Astrobe> Expose yourself.
13:50:32 <Astrobe> I don't know if I translate it right,
13:51:07 <Astrobe> but this also means take risks, don't stay in the comfort of your security.
13:51:54 <Astrobe> We're pretty of topic, are we?
13:52:21 <Raystm2> sorry :) yes probably.
13:52:39 <Astrobe> Doesn't bother me...
13:52:39 <Raystm2> I don't know Mr Serre yet. 
13:53:08 <Raystm2> Expose yourself, in english almost always means dropping your pants, but we know what you mean. :)
13:53:31 <Astrobe> lol.
13:53:50 <Raystm2> Same idea, really.
13:54:04 <Astrobe> I did somehow guess that it would mean something like that
13:54:15 <Raystm2> I'm looking for the easy way to share the P ' ' code.
13:56:04 <Astrobe> The P'' programs or the interpreter?
13:56:13 <Raystm2> oh I know, screen shots.
13:56:34 <Raystm2> the Glypher version of the P'' progy.
13:57:13 <SunDragon> i read that gforth does not have the word FORGET
13:57:30 <SunDragon> imho keep/peek is a keeper =)
13:58:18 <Astrobe> Raystm2: you need a host for HTML pages and downloads then
13:58:19 <Raystm2> thanks ;)
13:58:28 <crc> I don't think FORGET is part of the ANS standard
13:58:40 <Raystm2> Astrobe: crc has donated space for my colorforth.info site.
13:58:51 <Raystm2> this is where i'll put the screen shots of the P''.
13:58:55 <Raystm2> currently doing that...
13:59:08 <Astrobe> crc: in extension IIRC
13:59:40 * Raystm2 recalls using 'forget' in gforth...
13:59:46 <crc> TOOLS EXT
14:00:04 <Raystm2> forget and marker I believe is the pair.
14:00:07 <crc> flagged as "obsolescent"
14:00:11 <Raystm2> oh
14:00:12 <Astrobe> crc: they have MARKER in the core IIRC. Sorry, dropped my copy of ANSForth
14:00:12 <Raystm2> okay.
14:00:27 <Astrobe> So, forget FORGET ( easy...)
14:00:42 * crc just knew it wasn't in CORE :)
14:00:47 <Raystm2> hehe
14:01:01 <Astrobe> This guys are FENCEless
14:01:16 <Astrobe> s/This/these/
14:02:02 <SunDragon> i think the obok i am reading (the web edition of "starting forth") must not have been fully ANSified
14:02:06 <SunDragon> obok=book
14:02:26 <SunDragon> it's been a bumpy ride following this book, and it was recommended in several faq's as the best book to learn forth from
14:03:08 <crc> starting forth is a good book, but quite outdated
14:03:29 <Raystm2> oh i "forgot' to say...
14:03:57 <Raystm2> I can boot Tim Neitz's version of the colorforth-05.
14:04:05 <Raystm2> I have a display issue that i'm working out. 
14:04:15 <Raystm2> but it definately runs on my p2.
14:04:20 <crc> cool
14:04:32 <Astrobe> remember me is Linux or Windows?
14:05:04 <Raystm2> Astrobe: the colorforth-05 may work for you. 
14:05:22 <Raystm2> I don't know, it depends on your machine componants.
14:05:58 <Raystm2> It's a native and needs no OS.
14:06:57 <Astrobe> the pb is that my laptop has no floppy.
14:09:22 <Raystm2> oh 
14:11:27 <Astrobe> It reminds me that I must download Mark's linux port.
14:16:00 <Raystm2> okay here we go.
14:16:17 <Raystm2> http://colorforth.info/glyph366.png   is block one
14:16:33 <Raystm2> http://colorforth.info/glyph368.png  is block two the last block so far.
14:17:18 <Astrobe> ColorF*ck :)
14:19:44 <Raystm2> I'm working on the documenting swap blocks currently .
14:20:30 <Astrobe> (bookmarked)
14:21:37 <Raystm2> This should be easily adapted to CM's 7 menu-button system.
14:21:48 <Raystm2> The one he uses in OKAD.
14:22:40 <Raystm2> infact that's all i'm using. the UP, DOWN, INSERT, DELETE, CTRL, LEFT and RIGHT keys .
14:24:04 <Astrobe> speaking of keyboards, did you include the picture of Chuck's keyboard for use with CF in the colorforth.info page?
14:24:46 <Raystm2> No, i'm severly behind at that site. 
14:25:01 <Raystm2> I will probably point to CM's site and Karig.org.
14:25:13 <Raystm2> with more background text for us mortals :)
14:25:48 <Astrobe> That's written anyway 'under construction'.
14:26:43 <Raystm2> I want to do a coimplete listing of the original, ( or maybe this 2005 verison ) and then compare the differences of all other versions.
14:27:08 * crc still awaits for colorforth.info to get a hardware compatibility list for the various colorforths that exist
14:27:11 <Raystm2> I need arke to explain the boot process to me.
14:27:39 <Raystm2> excellent idea. I can't seem to use the mailing list consistanly.
14:27:42 <Astrobe> On screen 368, *>p could be:
14:27:52 <Raystm2> yes... 
14:28:03 <Astrobe> : 4>p >p >p >p ;
14:28:12 <Raystm2> sure :)
14:28:18 <Astrobe> : *>p 4>p 4>p 4>P ;
14:28:33 <Raystm2> very cool, more grainularity :)
14:28:53 <Raystm2> choice of distance, execllent. 
14:29:02 <Raystm2> can ad that 8th key then. :)
14:29:27 <Astrobe> I took the trick from Jeff or Chuck
14:29:27 <Raystm2> if you  hitting ctrl-shift you get a different granularity :)
14:30:21 <Raystm2> thanks Astrobe :)
14:30:51 <Raystm2> or, i could customize a variable to set the granularity.
14:31:02 <Raystm2> jump any size .
14:31:55 <Astrobe> Oh in 4>p there's of course 4 >p .
14:32:18 <Raystm2> yes.
14:32:22 <Raystm2> I understand.
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14:42:44 <Astrobe> it's quite late here now. I have to go.
14:44:12 <Astrobe> bye!
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14:50:52 <Raystm2> cool this is related to Godel Numbering.
14:51:07 <Raystm2> And Church numbers as well.
14:51:17 <Raystm2> Self referencial, even.
14:53:00 <crc> Raystm2: I finally uploaded the RDML export scripts today ;)
15:08:55 <JasonWoof> gah!
15:09:09 <JasonWoof> my housemates are alright, but some of their friends are such *&@#$ morons
15:09:18 <JasonWoof> I'm never going to answer the house phone again
15:11:45 * crc never answers the phone
15:25:46 * Raystm2 never answers the phone.
15:25:51 <Raystm2> thanks crc.
15:26:08 <Raystm2> RDML can be linked from your retroforth site now?
15:26:44 <crc> it's on the new site (http://rf.fcode.org -- which will be retroforth.org sometime in january)
15:26:59 <Raystm2> very cool.
15:28:27 <Raystm2> doesn't display properly for me in firefox, better but not perfect in IE .
15:29:10 <Raystm2> oh the main page not the spec, that is.
15:30:07 <Raystm2> the spec seems fine in either.
15:30:51 <crc> hmm
15:31:00 * crc is still working on the stylesheets
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15:31:28 <crc> the html is valid now; but no twp browsers seem to like interpreting the source the same way :(
15:31:44 <Raystm2> yeah, that's a problem.
15:32:00 * Raystm2 reading the spec.
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15:32:11 <Raystm2> and as always, i'm impressed crc!
15:35:18 <Raystm2> on defiinition of "]]" please remove 'a' between "recently a named section", or change to "recent, a named section".
15:35:41 <crc> ok
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20:42:04 <Quartus> Hey all.
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21:18:06 <snowrichard> hi
21:24:57 <Quartus> Hi snowrichard.
21:26:29 <snowrichard> hello
21:26:52 <snowrichard> just did a release of one my projects.  Its a little GTK+ gui 
21:28:20 <snowrichard> for controlling my shoutcast server and various other audio stuff.
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23:29:56 <snowrichard> hi
23:30:37 <snowrichard> .at is Austria? 
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