00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.12.12 00:00:10 i have some problems while compiling kforth for win32 00:00:14 anyone has binaries? 00:17:51 --- quit: swalters_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:37:27 --- join: swalters_ (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 03:48:08 --- quit: crc ("Lost terminal") 03:52:18 --- join: crc (n=crc@pool-70-110-222-210.phil.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 03:52:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o crc 04:00:22 --- quit: nballen () 05:21:32 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool47-3.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:23:56 --- part: bbls left #forth 05:34:51 --- join: newbie (n=newbie@p54857848.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:44:34 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:49:39 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 05:57:37 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 05:59:54 --- nick: newbie -> [newbie] 06:00:14 --- nick: [newbie] -> garfield 06:07:16 hi garfield 07:06:03 --- quit: garfield (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:19:56 --- join: virl (i=core@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 07:23:37 gforth /home/complang/micrev/praktikum/ppc/asm.fs -e 8 9 0 48 rldimi. bye 07:23:46 this is what i do in the shell 07:23:56 *the terminal*:0: File I/O exception 07:23:56 Backtrace: 07:23:56 $8000270850 throw 07:24:04 and that is how it ends :( 07:37:56 --- join: Cheery (i=Henri@a81-197-18-99.elisa-laajakaista.fi) joined #forth 07:38:10 Hi, Does there exist a functional version from forth? 07:38:34 Huh? 07:38:40 or wait. I should use google before asking. 07:38:42 Cheery: functional like the languages based on the lambda calculus? 07:39:03 humulus, well, functional like lisp is. 07:39:09 google is always handy 07:39:15 ..no idea what yer asking 07:39:34 Cheery: do not think so, would that make any sense? 07:40:17 Typechecking, prototypes and such? 07:40:42 PoppaVic, nope. 07:40:52 Well, try explaining 07:41:41 maintainability and modularity are the most important functional languages provides.. 07:41:42 the arch of the SECD virtual machine used by lisp is completely different than that one of forth 07:41:55 * PoppaVic sighs 07:42:09 Cheery: are you kinding? maintainability ?! wtf? 07:42:12 Folks can't even agree on how to IMPLEMENT forth 07:42:31 humulus, no, I'm not kidding. 07:42:32 Cheery: you might have a look at Factor... http://factor.sourceforge.net/ 07:42:38 when all else fails, fall back on gforth 07:42:46 tathi, ok. 07:43:04 influences from Forth, Joy, Lisp, Slate, etc. 07:43:58 well OO langs were developed in order to provide maintanbility 07:44:09 oh, please 07:44:13 Cheery: have you looked at Joy already? 07:44:16 I mean, it is horrible when you have thousands of functions and you don't know where are they or does they even exist. 07:44:42 even horrible when they refers to unknown global variables etc. 07:44:54 Standards are the key, prob is their particular bias/def 07:45:10 http://www.latrobe.edu.au/philosophy/phimvt/joy.html 07:45:17 --- join: [newbie] (n=newbie@p5485569E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:45:22 let's get back to forth ;o) 07:45:38 I can't take any more for awhile - stay well, tathi 07:45:42 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:45:43 PoppaVic, standards doesn't repair anything. 07:46:11 don't mind him, he just has very strong opinions about everything. 07:46:14 --- nick: [newbie] -> garfield 07:46:30 well, I have very strong opinions about some things too :) 07:47:04 you might check out the #concatenative channel -- they mainly discuss factor, but other more "modern" stack-based languages as well if someone is interested. 07:48:39 I'm looking for different implementations and found out that forth is quite nice after all. 07:48:56 arh 07:49:01 no implementations, languages. 07:49:21 or well, I think I'm looking for implementation too. there were some in wikipedia, but couldn't choose. 07:50:18 gforth runs most places, and is fairly standards-compliant 07:50:38 retroforth is minimal, and runs on most x86 OSes 07:51:36 ok. Does some of them have windows installation? 07:51:40 well, has a minimal slant, anyway. 07:52:52 I think both do... 07:52:56 http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/gforth.html 07:52:59 http://www.retroforth.org/ 07:53:12 thanks. 07:54:06 And again, if you're looking for something with more lisp-like features, you should give Factor a look. 07:54:12 hi tathi 07:54:25 I'm thinking about designing a computer language, but first I like to extend my knowledge about different languages there's available. 07:54:50 Cheery, if you don't know forth yet, you'll love it for creating languages. 07:54:54 hi Ray 07:55:03 yeah retroforth is awesome. I'm planning to use it to write other languages 07:55:10 * Ray_work = Promoted to warehouse manager. 07:55:19 yippee 07:55:26 I won't be infront of a screen as often, but I'll still be here. 07:55:39 Theres a machine on my desk at the warehouse. 07:56:13 I think I'll start looking design approaches from forth, since it has simplest implementation I've seen. 07:56:35 I could write very simple one in quarter hour with python. 07:56:53 Cheery, have you read "Thinking Forth" or "Starting Forth" ( both available on the web ) ? 07:57:09 I gues I've collided with starting forth already. 07:57:33 I recommend also "Moving Forth" 07:57:56 if that's where they explain about different stack features to I/O system lisp provides. 07:58:45 *the terminal*:0: File I/O exception 07:58:45 Backtrace: 07:58:45 $8000270850 throw 07:58:46 be honest Cheery, I've never finished more then the introduction on "Moving", But i see it recommended here often. 07:58:51 what the hell is this? 07:59:55 humulus: we can't answer that without more information. 08:00:29 hiho... 08:00:50 i do gforth /home/complang/micrev/praktikum/ppc/asm.fs -e 8 9 0 48 rldimi. bye in the shell 08:01:22 actually a script does that 08:01:40 that's not so helpful either. use paste.lisp.org or rafb.net/paste/ or some other paste site to post the code. 08:04:05 i don't get it cuz when i do gforth asm.fs and in the forth interpreter 8 9 0 48 rldimi. it does what it should 08:04:09 anyway thx 08:05:36 --- quit: saon ("leaving") 08:05:52 i don't know which part of the code would be usefull 08:06:06 you're probably overwriting something again 08:06:24 strings are handled differently when interpreting than when compiling. 08:06:57 are you doing any file i/o ? 08:07:56 i'm stupid with gforth -e "8 9 0 48 rldimi." bey ti works :( 08:09:42 ah. that'll do it. :) 08:11:25 funny that gforth doesn't check if it can find the file before it tries to read it... 08:12:14 --- join: saon (i=1000@c-66-177-224-184.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:18:14 Hmm. factor looks nice, I have to study it longer. 08:18:20 does factor have FFI? 08:19:41 --- join: sproingie (n=chuck@64-121-2-59.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 08:21:03 yes 08:21:33 stuff under 'alien' 08:22:49 Hmm. It takes a evening to look around in this thing. I'm happy that it is simple so not much to learn. :) 08:23:46 yup. 08:26:44 arh. this is a really good one. Do you know about factor's performance? 08:27:29 is it same class as forth or C, or is it same as python? 08:27:41 tathi: i'll tell anton that :D 08:28:19 closer to forth 08:28:27 Cheery, from what I know about, it's relative slow. 08:28:47 relative slow? 08:29:08 it could have improved since I tried it. 08:33:35 it does seem to be a bit slower than the forths I've used, even with the optimizing compiler. 08:33:47 but I don't think it's anywhere near as slow as python. 08:33:48 slower than forth, faster than python 08:33:55 "faster than python" doesn't say much of course 08:34:03 i think ABCL is faster than python 08:34:11 :) 08:34:56 forth is practically an alternate syntax for assembly. it's hard to get faster than forth without whole-program optimization 08:35:15 I'm sad since many nice languages are slow. 08:35:26 yes but are they fast *enough*? 08:35:27 ok, so it seems that I'm the only one here who had worse experiences with it 08:35:47 yeah, forth seems nice thing. 08:35:47 i mean python is slow, yes, but it blows the doors off a shell script 08:35:48 Factor is a little slower than I'd like, but I have a 533MHz PowerMac here. 08:36:05 factor's UI is slow. factor itself is pretty zippy 08:36:37 hm.. ok then that could be, why it seems so slow 08:37:18 it's also kind of slow to bootstrap because it's still interpreting while bootstrapping 08:37:19 I thought slow language => slow ui 08:37:37 sure, but the converse isn't necessarily true 08:37:37 although slava sped up bootstrap by quite a bit for 0.79 (yay) 08:38:02 yah bootstrap is faster now 08:38:24 takes less than half as long on my box as it used to 08:38:26 Hmm. I think I'll give factor a really big try. 08:38:32 * sproingie is getting pretty excited about slate, which looks like a better smalltalk 08:40:23 I haven't really tried slate yet, but it does look pretty neat. 08:41:29 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@pdpc/supporter/student/Herkamire) joined #forth 08:41:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 08:41:40 hi JasonWoof :) 08:59:20 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool46-100.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:26:34 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:28:53 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 09:29:14 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool64-96.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:29:23 --- quit: Ray_work ("Stupid NetSplit") 09:43:19 --- join: saon (n=saon@unaffiliated/saon) joined #forth 10:19:37 --- part: garfield left #forth 10:20:44 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 10:42:18 --- quit: humulus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:48:28 --- join: humulus (n=humulus@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at) joined #forth 10:53:47 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 10:54:03 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 11:16:32 --- join: Ray-work (n=Raystm2@adsl-209-30-159-24.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 11:41:28 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 12:31:05 --- join: nballen (n=nballen@adsl-69-111-248-132.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:12:08 --- quit: madwork ("?OUT OF DATA ERROR") 13:12:19 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 13:41:50 --- quit: nballen () 13:42:03 --- join: thin (i=thin@69.46.24.28) joined #forth 13:43:13 --- part: thin left #forth 13:43:35 --- quit: Cheery (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:43:59 --- join: nballen (n=nballen@adsl-69-111-248-132.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net) joined #forth 14:04:11 --- part: slava left #forth 14:29:50 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-154-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:30:18 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 14:30:20 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 14:43:02 --- join: Topaz (n=top@sown-85.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 15:00:33 --- join: T0paz (n=top@sown-85.ecs.soton.ac.uk) joined #forth 15:00:43 --- quit: Topaz ("Leaving") 15:10:53 hi everyone 15:12:08 hi crc 15:39:42 hi captain crc :) 15:42:46 --- quit: T0paz (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:42:52 captain crc? 15:47:17 Captain Kirk, sorry, bad pun. :) 15:47:28 crc -> Krk -> Kirk. 15:47:47 Star Trek, you know. 15:50:09 ok 16:05:43 brb 16:05:46 --- quit: crc ("leaving") 17:44:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:22:11 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 18:23:42 Quartus :) 18:45:39 Hi. 18:50:42 Report: How is the Quartus unit fuctioning this cycle? 18:59:38 Still an imperfect carbon unit. 19:02:11 Ditto mirror store. 19:03:13 * Raystm2 trying to do a colorBrianF*** VisualStudio in Glypher as prototype to the ColorForth version. 19:04:56 I finished playing with the "colorTowers of Hanoi". I have yet to move the ring addresses off the stack and into there own structure, 19:05:44 I'm still playing with the stack-word-Keyboard. 19:06:31 It would be fun to create a forth keyboard where you could assign what ever words you want to keys. 19:06:43 Like the old ZX81. 19:06:48 One-touch keywords. :) 19:06:49 Really? 19:06:52 cool 19:07:34 change all the keys with a keystroke so you could still edit, I suppose. 19:08:09 It switched modes for BASIC input, knew when a keyword was expected as you typed. 19:08:25 Rehearse stack manipulation, then with a keystroke, insert the working combination into source, maybe. 19:08:33 cool 19:08:47 Novel, but I will still stay with my trusted & true text editor. :) 19:08:58 :) 19:09:15 Your the professional. I'm just playin'. 19:09:22 You are even 19:10:08 I am wary of integrated editors. 19:10:35 They say to me "Whatever you do here, it's not going to be portable, so give up all hope now." :) 19:10:47 hehe 19:13:21 --- part: nballen left #forth 19:24:33 --- quit: TravisBarker ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") 20:18:19 --- join: docl_ (n=docl@67-51-244-38.bras01.mcl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 20:18:56 --- quit: docl (Nick collision from services.) 20:19:02 --- nick: docl_ -> docl 22:24:57 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 23:28:59 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.12.12