00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.12.04
00:02:23 <JasonWoof> hi airbrush 
00:11:28 <airbrush> hello JasonWoof
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03:35:36 <swisscheese> Hi all - Anyone know where to find a minimal Forth instruction set from which to bootstrap the language from say a dozen primitives?
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07:28:16 <crc> good morning
07:28:27 <PoppaVic> howdy
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10:58:37 <airbrush> hello ya'll
11:01:38 <JasonWoof> hello again
11:02:07 <airbrush> howdy, zup?
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11:22:06 <amca_at_cins> Morning
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11:44:11 <JasonWoof> zup?
11:44:20 <JasonWoof> oh right
11:44:36 <amca_at_cins> Hi JasonWoof 
11:44:38 <JasonWoof> sleeping late, discworld mud, hunger..
11:44:41 <JasonWoof> hi amca_at_cins :)
11:44:55 <amca_at_cins> Discworld mud?
11:45:00 <amca_at_cins> How are you today?
11:45:01 <JasonWoof> aye
11:45:06 <JasonWoof> I'm good
11:45:08 <JasonWoof> hungry
11:45:15 <amca_at_cins> hehe
11:45:17 <JasonWoof> getting to that point where I'll actually go downstairs and get food
11:45:23 <amca_at_cins> O_O
11:45:26 <JasonWoof> discworld.atuin.net
11:45:30 <amca_at_cins> No! Dont go *that* far! ;)
11:45:34 * amca_at_cins looks
11:45:56 <JasonWoof> feeding time. bbiab
11:46:30 * amca_at_cins nods
11:53:50 <JasonWoof> man this place is drafty
11:54:04 * amca_at_cins is away: brb
11:55:52 <JasonWoof> we need to put plastic over the windows
11:57:30 * amca_at_cins is back (gone 00:03:16)
11:58:01 <amca_at_cins> Windows dont have panes?
11:58:43 <JasonWoof> they do
11:58:56 <amca_at_cins> but?
11:59:04 <JasonWoof> but they're old, single-pane windows that often don't seal well
11:59:16 <amca_at_cins> ouch
11:59:36 <JasonWoof> even though some have storm windows, the heating bill is reduced considerably if you put plastic over them
12:00:04 <amca_at_cins> air tight? or like a curtain?
12:00:21 <JasonWoof> tight
12:00:32 * amca_at_cins nods
12:00:32 <JasonWoof> tape it on the inside or staple on the outside
12:00:42 <JasonWoof> clear plastic of course
12:00:55 * amca_at_cins nods
12:01:23 <amca_at_cins> Where do you usally get the plastic from?
12:03:01 <JasonWoof> dunno
12:03:10 <JasonWoof> I've gotten plastic that would work at a hardware store before
12:03:27 <JasonWoof> never done the plasticing of the windows myself
12:04:00 <JasonWoof> (bought the plastic to tack onto the rafters of a crawlspace to cover the insulation)
12:04:10 <amca_at_cins> ah
12:04:42 <JasonWoof> I've partly got this on the brain because there's a decent amount of snow outside for the first time this year
12:04:59 <JasonWoof> unless it happened thanksgiving week while I was away
12:05:11 <amca_at_cins> Ah
12:05:19 <amca_at_cins> No probs with that in Australia :)
12:12:27 <amca_at_cins> Been doing much Forth stuff of late?
12:24:24 <JasonWoof> lots last week
12:24:25 <JasonWoof> none this week
12:24:50 <JasonWoof> last week (with the help of tathi) I got my vm working on windoze
12:25:08 <JasonWoof> and I added graphics to it, and got my forth to compile itself and save a new image to disk
12:25:55 <amca_at_cins> Cool :)
12:26:01 <JasonWoof> next is to add an editor
12:26:11 <amca_at_cins> Is in on the web?
12:26:16 <JasonWoof> hopefully that won't take too long
12:26:19 <JasonWoof> you have windoze?
12:26:45 <JasonWoof> I've got code to print definitions already
12:27:12 <amca_at_cins> I dual boot
12:27:34 <amca_at_cins> But Im at my gfs place now. Ill have to wait till I get home to properly check it out
12:27:49 <JasonWoof> ahh
12:28:09 <JasonWoof> I haven't released the source for the forth yet, as it's in herkforth
12:28:24 <JasonWoof> which is a binary-only thing which runs on ppc linux
12:28:33 <JasonWoof> but I packaged up binaries for windoze
12:28:58 <JasonWoof> but, as it lacks an editor, you can only glimps the source as it flies by
12:28:59 <amca_at_cins> ah
12:29:12 <amca_at_cins> Welll she runs XP, so I could still play with it
12:29:15 <JasonWoof> it will be far more interesting in a month or two
12:29:18 <amca_at_cins> hehe
12:30:24 <JasonWoof> well, it's basically a development environment
12:30:30 <JasonWoof> but you can't make definitions or change existing ones
12:30:32 <JasonWoof> only execute stuff
12:30:44 <JasonWoof> so it's basically a calculator at this point :)
12:30:58 <amca_at_cins> np
12:32:59 <amca_at_cins> JasonWoof: Are you familiar with retroforth at all?
12:33:47 <JasonWoof> yeah, a bit
12:33:50 <JasonWoof> haven't really used it
12:34:27 <amca_at_cins> Just Im wondering about how I could use it like a unix filter
12:35:45 <amca_at_cins> I want to be able to do something like ´filter < in > out´, but rf takes the stdin as a forth program
12:35:50 <amca_at_cins> Any tips?
12:39:03 <JasonWoof> can't you read from stdin with KEY or some such?
12:40:17 <JasonWoof> I did a filter in gforth recently
12:40:34 <amca_at_cins> That is what I was wondering
12:40:42 <JasonWoof> should be able to
12:40:45 <JasonWoof> that's what I did in gforth
12:40:52 <JasonWoof> just have to figure out how to detect EOF
12:41:05 <JasonWoof> in gforth KEY returns -1 on EOF
12:43:08 <amca_at_cins> with gforth you can specify forth source to execute on the command line cant you?
12:44:29 <amca_at_cins> with rf I think it ignores the command line arguments. At least I cant see anything in the docs where you can use some.
12:44:45 <JasonWoof> oh
12:44:50 <JasonWoof> weird
12:45:03 <JasonWoof> yeah, you can tell gforth to execute from a file
12:45:18 <amca_at_cins> Maybe I just missed something in the docs, but I looked and looked and couldnt find anything
12:45:45 <amca_at_cins> Cause Im sure I have used gforth as a filter too
12:46:22 <JasonWoof> you can't figure how to get rf to execute from a file instead of stdin?
12:47:22 <amca_at_cins> yeah
12:47:32 <JasonWoof> wish I could help...
12:47:37 <JasonWoof> rf doesn't run on my box
12:47:41 <JasonWoof> not x86
12:48:08 <amca_at_cins> ah
12:48:11 <amca_at_cins> That is okay
12:48:24 <amca_at_cins> I just thought there may be some silly obvious thing I missed :)
12:50:06 <JasonWoof> ./rf file
12:50:08 <JasonWoof> :)
12:50:51 <amca_at_cins> O_o To be honest I dont know if I did that. 
12:50:54 * amca_at_cins double checks
12:52:25 <amca_at_cins> nope :/
12:52:30 <amca_at_cins> I did:
12:52:43 <amca_at_cins> echo bye > file.f
12:52:53 <amca_at_cins> rf file.f
12:53:03 <amca_at_cins> and it continued waiting for input
12:53:07 * amca_at_cins cries
13:00:32 <JasonWoof> ok, I put up a source tarbal and some links for fovium/mist:  http://jasonwoof.org/fovium
13:00:46 <JasonWoof> fovium comes with mist
13:01:08 <JasonWoof> fovium is the VM, mist the OS that runs on it
13:02:43 <amca_at_cins> thanks :)
13:03:06 <JasonWoof> man, I gotta check the license on that font
13:05:32 <JasonWoof> ok, just talked to crc
13:05:40 <JasonWoof> doesn't seem to be a way to pass a file on the commandline
13:05:46 <JasonWoof> (in rf)
13:06:06 <JasonWoof> but it should work to do this:  cat filter.f in | ./rf > out
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13:06:56 <amca_at_cins> thanks :)
13:07:17 * crc plans to add command line support in 8.3 or 8.4
13:07:26 <amca_at_cins> I was raking my brains trying to come up with a workaround like that, but I couldnt think of what to do
13:07:48 <JasonWoof> wow, crc is in here... how'd I manage to miss that in the /names list
13:08:21 <amca_at_cins> crc: Even just taking one argument on the command line as the first code to run would be a huge help for such things
13:08:42 <amca_at_cins> crc: If I had time Id add it myself :)
13:08:46 <crc> :)
13:09:38 <JasonWoof> if you really need to pipe it (eg "./foo | ...filter... | ./bar") you should be able to do:  ./foo | cat filter.f - | ./rf | ./bar
13:10:37 <JasonWoof> hmmm... that came out more redundant than I meant
13:11:04 <amca_at_cins> JasonWoof: It will be on a Win32 platform, so the CLI support will be nuetered :)
13:11:05 <JasonWoof> man, I'm not excited about today at all
13:11:07 <JasonWoof> must need a bath :)
13:11:28 <JasonWoof> amca_at_cins: lol, yeah, that's what encouraged me to build the graphic output
13:11:43 <JasonWoof> amca_at_cins: the windoze terminal didn't seem to support color escape codes.
13:11:50 <JasonWoof> amca_at_cins: at least not the ansi ones
13:12:07 <crc> JasonWoof, you have to use the Win32 API to set colors in console apps
13:12:10 <JasonWoof> fovium uses SDL for i/o
13:12:23 <crc> no escape codes are supported :(
13:12:30 <amca_at_cins> Jason: In my experience, you have to load ansi.sys in config.sys at boot in the DOS/Win95 days. Dont know about NT Win
13:12:34 <JasonWoof> crc: ok, cool. that was my guess. nice to have it confirmed.
13:12:42 <JasonWoof> I know you can do color on the terminal because vim does it
13:12:44 <crc> amca_at_cins, that doesn't work on NT/2k/XP/Vista
13:12:53 <amca_at_cins> crc: Thats what I thought
13:13:20 <crc> it's annoying to work around :)
13:13:55 <JasonWoof> I was planning on building my own terminal emulator anyway... the windows terminal just encouraged me to do it earlier
13:14:03 <amca_at_cins> hehe
13:14:14 <JasonWoof> I find the linux terminal to be too limiting
13:14:15 <sproingie> see if you can make PuttyTerm actually work
13:14:24 <JasonWoof> no thanks
13:14:34 <JasonWoof> I've had my fill of trying to get things to work on windoze
13:14:43 <JasonWoof> fovium works there, and that's all I need
13:15:03 <sproingie> er.... if you're not bothering with windows, why write any terminal emu for it at all
13:15:17 <JasonWoof> I wrote it in C using SDL
13:15:17 <amca_at_cins> crc: What source file should cmd arg support be added to (in case I feel like some hacking one night)
13:15:29 <crc> hmm
13:15:33 <crc> in 8.2.x right?
13:16:07 <JasonWoof> "porting" to windoze was mostly a matter of setting up a build script that links in the correct libraries
13:16:32 <amca_at_cins> the latest stable
13:16:44 <amca_at_cins> 8.2.5
13:16:50 <amca_at_cins> so, yeah :)
13:16:55 <crc> at the end of source/blocks/interp would be the best place I think
13:17:08 <sproingie> i want something like clim without the massive bureaucracy
13:17:18 <amca_at_cins> Should I add it to the stable or the devel code?
13:17:36 <sproingie> where i can type "ls" then drag one of the file widgets in the listing to my desktop
13:18:14 <crc> amca_at_cins, stable for now
13:20:17 <JasonWoof> sproingie: there's certainly something to be said for a system that understands what it's displaying
13:20:42 <sproingie> yah, clim's a good approach to UI's
13:21:02 <sproingie> it's just a resource-hogging monstrosity
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15:02:59 <Quartus> Hi all.
15:03:27 <Raystm2> Hi, Quartus. Hope you are well.
15:04:05 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Quartus and Raystm2
15:05:41 <Quartus> Yes, thanks. You?
15:05:46 <Quartus> Hi TheBlueWizard.
15:08:24 <Raystm2> HI TheBlueWizard, Yes I am well.
15:08:51 * Raystm2 was bored and typed up a "Towers of Hanoi" for Glypher.
15:12:42 <TheBlueWizard> good to hear you're doing well, Raystm2 :) I'm well too
15:13:17 <JasonWoof> yay :) everyone is well
15:13:24 * JasonWoof hands out wellness certificates
15:17:42 <Raystm2> Hey, this wellness certificate looks suspiciously like TP, What did you run out of sheepskin or something?
15:34:21 <JasonWoof> baaaaa!
15:34:38 * crc has finished coding command line argument support for RetroForth
15:34:50 <JasonWoof> hehe :)
15:34:51 <JasonWoof> that was quick
15:35:21 <crc> the changes I've made to the structure in 8.3 make things easier to implement :)
15:35:28 <JasonWoof> :)
15:35:34 <JasonWoof> the beauty of having your own forth
15:35:41 <crc> yeah
15:35:46 <JasonWoof> I can't wait to start writing my editor
15:54:55 * Raystm2 = tapping foot waiting on JasonWoof's editor :)
15:56:30 * Raystm2 likes crc's newest layout in the pdf.
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17:47:49 <slava64> crc: what is Rx?
17:47:49 <crc> hi slava64 
17:48:09 <crc> Rx is the new core codebase for RetroForth and other projects I'm working on
17:48:29 <slava64> so its the assembly kernel of retroforth?
17:48:37 <crc> assembly and forth
17:48:47 <slava64> so rx *is* retroforth? :)
17:48:56 <crc> RetroForth is a superset of Rx
17:49:12 <slava64> ah
17:49:15 <crc> Rx provides the compiler, interpreter, and most of the words I use regularly
17:49:27 <crc> RetroForth provides I/O words and other nice things
17:49:35 <slava64> what are these "other projects"?
17:49:38 <crc> (Rx by itself has no I/O words)
17:49:46 <slava64> so Rx is a library?
17:49:48 <crc> The main one is an editor 
17:49:52 <slava64> oh, wow
17:49:54 <crc> Rx was designed as a library, yes
17:50:59 <slava64> text editor?
17:51:17 <crc> the editor is planned to incorporate hypertext-like links via a wiki-like markup approach, drawing some ideas from the mixing of code and data in Oberon System 3
17:51:29 <slava64> oberon is neat
17:51:34 <crc> currently the hypertext parts aren't working
17:51:35 <crc> yeah
17:51:37 <slava64> are you writing the editor in forth?
17:51:40 * crc used Oberon for a few years
17:51:44 <crc> in C and Forth
17:51:48 <slava64> why C?
17:51:58 <crc> Mostly because that's what I started it with
17:52:02 <slava64> ok
17:52:16 <crc> I'm gradually dropping the C functions as I recode things in forth
17:52:28 <slava64> will it be usable for plain text also?
17:52:32 <crc> yes
17:52:37 <slava64> cool, i'll use it :)
17:52:52 <crc> cool ;)
17:53:08 <crc> it's still rather raw at the moment, but I can edit files with it
17:53:40 <crc> I *think* that the plain text editing will be mostly stable by early January
18:45:31 <crc> goodnight
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22:10:19 <I440r> damn tathi isnt here lol
22:17:47 <I440r> brb
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22:41:34 <Quartus> Wjat
22:41:39 <Quartus> What's the news of the world, I440r?
22:45:11 <I440r> got selinux installed. got an evms raid 5 working
22:45:21 <I440r> need to get the drive train on my car fixed
22:45:30 <I440r> luckilly thats still covered by my warranty
22:46:27 <Quartus> I see.
22:48:08 <I440r> it would be bad if it wasnt covered
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