00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.12.02 00:02:40 --- join: I440r (n=foo@rrcs-24-242-160-169.sw.biz.rr.com) joined #forth 00:16:24 --- quit: homeness ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 03:13:58 --- quit: warpzero (Client Quit) 03:14:02 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth 04:19:31 --- join: swa_ters_ (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 04:33:49 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool67-219.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:20:33 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 05:20:49 hey, tathi 05:24:21 morning 05:24:31 WHat's shakin', chief? 05:25:32 not much. 05:26:23 did a bit of work on my window manager the last couple days. 05:26:29 it's still not usable, but it's getting closer. 05:26:29 ahh 05:29:32 what's up with you? 05:29:52 Fleshing out new code for the ini-type parser 05:30:52 several issues... load(store/fetch) and parsing, and expansion, etc. 05:31:11 oh, and "what the heck should the 'value' contain?" ;-) 05:32:58 the 'value'? 05:33:18 yeah, struct+string... Just trying to ascertain the struct-part 05:33:22 that is associated with a name in the ini file? 05:33:29 right 05:33:38 ah, ok. right. 05:33:53 Given the choice, I prefer to store info I'd have to regenerate over and over ;-) 06:06:41 --- quit: saon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:11:26 --- join: ppl_ (n=ppl@CPE000625f654d7-CM0011ae9233cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 06:25:10 --- quit: ppl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:29:23 --- quit: swa_ters_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:32:30 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:45:56 --- quit: PoppaVic (Nick collision from services.) 06:46:14 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool75-18.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 06:49:29 OK, tathi need a "moderator"... 06:50:33 I've an "issue" that might be rule-based, or syntax-based, or just headspace 07:08:48 --- join: xlthlx (n=Miranda@bsd.pme.nthu.edu.tw) joined #forth 07:15:01 --- join: LninYo (n=His_Roya@CPE0050f2795111-CM014340000716.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:16:02 Morning everyong (EST) :) .. I have a qemu+forthos question.. if anyone has a minute to answer my query 07:16:44 no idea, might as well ask - it seems unlikely anyone will know. 07:17:52 --- join: saon (i=1000@c-66-177-224-184.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:17:53 I got the iso booting on QEMU (osx tiger but that shouldn't matter), but how do I copy the image from the ISO to the 100 mb disk that I alloted to my QEMU instance? 07:18:54 forthos page talks about doing dd if/of thing, but that's only if you're going to a *nix partition, how do I copy the ForthOS image to the virtual disk? 07:25:38 --- join: docl (n=docl@67-51-244-38.bras01.mcl.id.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 07:28:04 I'm guessing, but probably with dd if/of as well, but to the virtual disk device. 07:30:01 Oh, hang on, it's an ISO in a file, I'm guessing? 07:30:06 dd should work fine 07:30:42 shouldn't matter if it's a file or /dev/hdxxx sort of thing 07:30:44 If it's an ISO file, using dd would give you an ISO filesystem on the virtual disk as well. 07:30:50 If that's ok, dd is your man. 07:34:05 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 07:34:28 oic 07:34:53 going to stand by my heater is cold in here 07:35:05 so I should just graft the two directories 07:35:10 Graft? 07:35:17 sorry :( 07:35:39 it comes with 3 files 07:36:03 I'll just overlay the qemu 100 meg image with the files in the iso cuz I can mount the iso 07:36:10 on the host os side 07:36:12 That sounds logical. 07:37:35 i thought maybe there was a way to move the guts off of the virtual CD to the virtual HD image so next time i could tell QEMu to boot off of the hard disk 07:38:19 i get 18mhz virtual cpu on my 1.4GHz with qemu but forthos is still fast enough :) 07:39:00 I'll try this, thanks a lot folks, appreciate it :) 07:39:16 * LninYo runs off to overwrite the harddisk 07:47:47 --- quit: LninYo ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.11/20050727]") 07:59:24 --- join: segher (n=segher@blueice1n1.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 08:03:31 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:05:37 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:11:52 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 08:19:31 --- quit: PoppaVic ("tootles") 08:42:16 --- nick: ppl_ -> ppl 09:47:24 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 10:51:08 i there any word that does ( a -- a a a ) 10:51:31 s/i/is/ 10:51:53 What's a good Forth to start with on FreeBSD? 10:53:00 gforth :) it's portable :) 10:53:36 thanks. ill try it. 10:54:43 humulus: just dup dup 10:55:08 segher: that sux 10:55:15 why? 10:55:38 why not :) 10:55:46 not that important 10:58:52 So in gforth, .S give me TOS? 10:59:29 it prints out the whole stack 10:59:47 oh, I just notice that. 11:00:11 ppl: number of elements is depth 11:00:22 Is there a particulary interesting book about Forth? 11:00:34 clearstack ok 11:00:34 .s <0> ok 11:00:34 1 2 ok 11:00:34 depth ok 11:00:34 . 2 ok 11:28:57 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 11:44:08 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:57:37 ppl have you read "Starting Forth" or "Thinking Forth" yet? 11:58:04 I have to read "Starting Thinking" first. 11:58:10 hehe 11:58:12 haha 11:58:13 hoho 11:58:17 huhu? 11:58:24 huhu not 12:05:16 Ray_work2: nop 12:06:14 ppl they are both online. finding good links... 12:06:41 http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf.html starting forth 12:06:45 Ya, I actually saw them already. 12:06:54 while googling for fourth 12:07:02 -u 12:07:16 http://thinking-forth.sourceforge.net/ 12:07:33 okay, These two are considered required reading, or so I'm told. 12:07:49 good to know. Exactly what I was looking for. 12:08:15 It is my pressure to be of service to you. :) 12:08:23 hehe 12:08:29 pleasure even :) 12:09:33 I've just purchased several books about forth. From Quartus infact. 12:10:12 I've never heard of Quartus before. 12:10:24 Quartus ping! 12:10:39 Quartus is the one who provides a forth for the Palm. 12:11:00 He should be in here somewhere. 12:11:07 Quartus ping2! 12:11:09 quartus.net 12:11:31 thanks tathi: how are you this fine Friday? 12:11:32 I think he's often not around at this time of day. 12:11:37 I see. 12:11:54 He's in eastern Canada. 12:12:45 I'm fine, how's by you? 12:13:20 Not bad. It suddenly got slow here at work. I wish I was smart enough to think of a way to leave work now and get a little extended weekend. :) 12:14:36 I'm in eastern Canada aswell. :) 12:14:38 tathi: are we still waiting for JasonWoof to finish up mist. 12:14:47 ppl cool! 12:15:57 :) 12:16:18 tathi: are we still waiting for JasonWoof to finish up mist? ( for got the ? last time) 12:17:17 oh. heh. I read that as "we *are* still waiting..." 12:17:21 Hey all. 12:17:28 there's Quartus. :) 12:17:38 What's up? 12:18:08 Not too much. Ray was just saying that he got Forth books from you. :) 12:18:50 Ray_work2: I'm assuming it will be a while yet. You could nag him if you're in a hurry. :P 12:26:51 :) 12:27:04 been busy here 12:27:14 I was thinking that Quartus was a book editor. :) 12:27:20 promised myself I wouldn't do other computer projects until I finished a payed one. 12:27:29 which I'm really really wanting to finish by the end of the weekend 12:27:41 so maybe there'll be good progress on Mist next week 12:28:21 ppl: how do you pronounce your nick. it sounds like people in my head 12:28:40 Ray_work2: you're rubbing off on me ;) I put a period in for a question mark too 12:28:49 'p' 'p' 'l'. My name is Pierre-Paul Lavoie. It's absicly my initials. 12:29:08 cool 12:29:12 --- join: swa_ters_ (n=swalters@6532183hfc82.tampabay.res.rr.com) joined #forth 12:32:37 tathi: tell me if you recieved my reply on the pm? 12:32:46 I don't think this nick is registered. 12:33:57 JasonWoof: i'm in no rush, just trying to keep abreast of your progress. 12:34:19 Can't wait to try out your ideas, they facinate me. 12:35:21 Ray_work2: oh. no, I didn't get a reply. 12:35:29 stupid freenode. 12:35:40 ya that's what I thought after 82 paragraphs or so :) 12:36:06 Would you believe 4? 12:36:36 :) 12:37:11 folendar is suffering old, overworked, under-rested man syndrom, in a nut shell. 12:37:39 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 12:37:49 It's about one of 8 ( including this job) projects that I'm currently trying to keep alive. 12:38:05 I see 12:38:09 It's going slow. 12:38:29 I've taken to "writeing" the tutorial on cassette tape on my trips to Waco. 12:39:03 It's a five hour round trip, and that's plenty of time to think. 12:39:40 I do the trip once or twice ( sometimes 3 times) a week. 12:39:43 after working hours. 12:40:26 yeah. My dad and I drove up to NYC yesterday (6 hr round trip) -- I found several flaws in the design of my window manager. :) 12:40:30 My biggest problem with getting a site up, how much of this is commercial, and how much is free. 12:40:39 very cool. 12:40:46 lap top? 12:41:01 Window manager? Written in which language? 12:41:16 fovium? 12:42:32 written in C, currently. 12:43:12 no laptop, just thinking things over, getting it straight in my head. 12:44:00 tathi: cool. There's #Xlib if you need help or want to discuss with others who write wms. 12:44:50 I've got the xlib docs, and source to several minimal window managers. 12:45:11 And Xlib source. Xlib is horrible. :) 12:45:26 I haven't needed that yet :) 12:49:08 I'd _love_ a window manager like ion that's easy to set up special rules for certain programs/windows 12:49:39 eg when I go to crop in the gimp it always opens a new window on top of the image I'm trying to crop 12:53:24 --- join: slava (n=slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 12:55:03 --- part: docl left #forth 13:14:39 I've never use ion much but the concept is nice. 13:18:37 hi 13:20:15 Hi slava, how are you? 13:20:39 last day of work, so i'm happy 13:21:18 I can sympathize :) 13:21:43 Last last day, or just end of the work week? 13:22:55 i have two weeks off 13:23:10 cool. 13:23:48 One of my vacations comes around Christmas and New Years this year 13:23:52 . 13:24:02 looking forward to it. 13:24:19 slave: Have you got plans for your time off. 13:25:52 oh... I believe you can change your settings on freenode for if you can recieve /msg from people who have not identified 13:27:12 yup /msg nickserv set unfitered on 13:27:20 yup /msg nickserv set unfiltered on 13:34:00 And it gives you mode +6. Wehee. Go freenode modes. 14:02:04 are there any 64 bit forths? 14:04:00 I think so 14:04:05 try factor ;) 14:05:25 well, i'm porting factor to amd64 right now 14:05:31 slava: what do you mean? 14:05:33 i was curious if there were others 14:05:45 JasonWoof: basically it means the image is almost 2x as big, with no gain 14:05:47 gforth runs on anything with gccc :) 14:05:52 JasonWoof: however, some (many) 64-bit linux distros don't have a 32-bit userspace 14:10:17 that'd be interesting. you could try compiling gforth on that system and see what the cell size is 14:10:51 how's herkforth these days? 14:11:25 you're working on a portable runtime, correct? 14:12:03 i can tell you the cell size for G5/gentoo 14:13:11 it's 8 big suprise :) 14:15:12 wait, you're running gentoo, on a g5? 14:15:13 why? :) 14:15:39 not me 14:16:35 longer story, why not? 14:16:45 i have a user on that machine :) 14:16:48 no 3d acceleration 14:17:04 it's only for shell accounts anyway 14:17:08 ok 14:17:50 i'm working on a gui toolkit that uses opengl... much to my surprise it is usable (but sluggish) with software opengl (mesa) 14:18:02 slava: yes, I'm starting over. I wrote a sort of cross-compiler in herkforth so I can write my new system in that until it can sustain it's own development 14:18:24 slava: I've got a portable VM implementation which the new system (mist) runs in 14:18:31 JasonWoof: will the look and feel remain similar? 14:18:34 with the editor and whatnot? 14:18:41 somewhat 14:18:56 maybe 50% 14:19:14 the new VM uses SDL for output instead of the terminal 14:19:40 but it includes a terminal emulator of sorts, so it doen't look all that different (especially since it's using the same font as my terminals at home) 14:19:41 i don't like SDL 14:19:47 it doesn't support multiple windows or the clipboard 14:19:51 its really for games only 14:19:59 I don't hate multiple windows 14:20:04 oops 14:20:12 I don't like multiple windows 14:20:41 not sure what to do about the clipboard 14:20:58 SDL has the best input handling of anything I've ever used 14:21:19 and the platform support is great 14:21:26 I've tested it on ppc linux and windoze 14:21:37 works great on both 14:21:42 we have x11 bindings for factor, and win32 bindings in progress 14:21:47 i'll be working on carbon bindings soon 14:21:54 cool 14:21:56 its a hell of a lot more work, but we have do multiple windows, clibpoard, etc 14:21:58 I'm not willing to do that work 14:22:04 yeah, fair enough 14:22:19 i wish there was a nice library that already did that 14:22:33 everything is either too bloated or too limited or doesn't support one of the three platforms i care about 14:22:47 eg, there's glfw which does mutliple windows, but doesn't support os x 14:23:03 sdl works on everything :) 14:23:08 and of course gtk supports all 3 but its what, 15mb? 14:23:20 and binding to gtk is a major pain 14:23:27 its heavily based on C macrology 14:23:37 one point on favor of SDL is the simple API 14:24:10 opengl is easy to bind to as well -- there's some 400 functions, but they all take simple integer arguments 14:28:49 yeah 14:28:57 the VM is in C, so linking is easy 14:29:17 my C library interface doesn't require changes to the runtime or anything 14:29:32 I'm not terribly concerned with interacting with the rest of the OS/applications 14:29:58 clipboard would be nice, but oh well 14:30:06 my goal is to make a standalone system anyway 14:30:13 i am, sort of. i don't want to have something like squeak, too isolationist 14:30:25 but i don't want to rely on 324234 C libraries for basic functionality, either 14:30:34 right 14:30:47 --- quit: segher () 14:30:52 your goal is to make a platform for developing applications right? 14:31:03 yeah, not an OS 14:31:08 not that i don't like the ideda 14:31:10 idea* 14:31:15 heh :) 14:31:15 just that i don't have the time or knowledge to make an OS 14:31:33 i hate unix and i hate windows. i use unix because i hate it slightly less 14:31:52 great :) 14:33:12 I've got time 14:33:14 (usually) 14:33:42 and though I'm not the most knowledgable person, it doesn't take much to beat the UIs of windoze, X, and macos 14:36:45 and unlike most people I think about ui issues and design around those 14:37:01 and I'm totally willing to rewrite stuff 14:37:19 and I take the time to tweak ui stuff 14:37:41 and I'm ok making something that requires a bit of retraining 14:40:40 i'd rather have an UI that's radically different from the host OS, than something that tries to emulate it 14:40:49 look at java's laughable attempts at look and feel emulation 14:42:55 yeah, the java UIs I've used have been pretty bad when they worked at all 14:50:04 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 16:05:07 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 16:07:30 --- join: amca (i=amca@rdlax10-b028.dialup.optusnet.com.au) joined #forth 16:10:55 Gday 16:11:09 hi amca 16:11:17 How are you going crc? 16:11:37 pretty tired, but good overall 16:11:47 Good. :) 16:11:59 een doing anything of interest? 16:12:07 amca, what is your passion, ( /me hogged the convo yesterday, me thinks) 16:12:07 (been) 16:12:12 lmao 16:12:26 Nah, I felt I hogged the chat with my Qs 16:12:33 working on RetroForth, preparing the company I work for for inventory, playing with the kids.... that's about all 16:12:35 hehe. 16:12:54 Raystm2: My passion is rational thinking. 16:13:08 Related to that I love to find out information 16:13:13 I am an Info Whore 16:13:27 crc: What are you currently working on with rf? 16:13:35 amca, yes! 16:13:52 amca. I thought ( pre-internet) that i'd have to be a librarian. 16:14:16 I have considered being a librariean 16:14:26 I always have loved libraries. 16:14:39 Pre-internet, that's where all the info was. 16:14:53 amca: I've rewritten quite a bit of the low-level core (rx), documented it, and now am rewriting the higher-level modules (including an ANS support module) 16:15:07 But I would like to be a tutor/lecturer in Computer Science in a Uni as my career gaol currently - some sort of job thatwould allow me to code and to help others code. 16:15:28 The internet is like a library having an orgasm 16:15:39 Also working on an editor in C and Rx to allow me to explore some new directions in terms of user interface 16:15:53 heheh 16:15:59 crc: Why is the core called rx? Historical reasons? 16:16:11 partially 16:16:24 i believe the r is for retroforth and the x is for any version from here forward. 16:16:58 Ah 16:16:59 R is for "retro", x is for "experiment" 16:17:02 Makes sense 16:17:05 at least it was initially 16:17:10 That makes even more sense 16:17:16 * Raystm2 also notes that Rx is the prescription for a new take on forth. 16:17:22 hehe 16:17:29 Or an old take revisited 16:17:47 I don't know of anybody ever doing what crc is doing now. 16:17:59 Rx has no I/O or system interaction words defined, which is making it easier for me to explore non-console based development models a bit 16:18:15 From Rx you should beable to build just about any kind of forth you need. /me would like to colorforth it. 16:19:00 amca, this should help with porting minimal forths. 16:19:10 crc: Did you hear my meanderings about my OOFVM that I was designing? 16:19:14 yes 16:19:27 * crc would like to see more minimalistic forths arise 16:19:54 amca, I like your idea of haveing TCP/IP as one of the basis of your design. 16:20:12 Have the networking of computers, high up on the TO-DO list. 16:20:26 Raystm2: I think you misunderstood me 16:20:42 No, but i did run off in a tangent. 16:20:53 Raystm2: I was only referring to the byte order in words of TCP/IP 16:20:56 ah :) 16:20:58 right 16:21:34 crc: I had a bigf discussion with Quartus about my minimum Forth. Would you like me to email it to you when I get home and get your thoughts on it? 16:21:41 I was thinking, just the otherday that the one true standard is the one all machines can comunicate with... 16:21:45 sure 16:21:58 crc is so kind :) 16:22:03 it may take me a day or two to reply, depending on how tired I am after work though 16:22:45 Raystm2: bits? :) 16:22:59 hehe ya bits :) 16:23:21 crc: Well Im not expecting prompt replies or anything. I am not moving on this project fast at the moment - it is a background process with a high nice level 16:25:47 Raystm2: So you want an interface that allows any computer to indicate a true or false value temporally? :) 16:26:06 You could build a language out of that. 16:26:13 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 16:26:38 Raystm2: Not a turning complete one 16:26:46 gday snowrichard 16:26:54 amca, i'm out of my range when I talk about this stuff :) 16:26:55 hi 16:27:04 hi snowrichard 16:27:28 * Raystm2 checked out your music list on your site yesterday. I'm impressed at the diversity and the collection. 16:27:31 going to get cup of coffee, brb 16:27:37 k 16:27:40 just wiped my music list 16:27:44 hehe 16:28:04 richardsnow.net 16:28:52 need to add : upload mp3 script :) 16:29:23 Raystm2: I cant think of a useful application except as a coin flipper app 16:30:49 Raystm2: To get any more use out of a computer you need to have the bits grouped. I know! Lets group them in groups of 5 and call them bardots! 16:31:01 hahaha 16:31:33 acctually, you just have to expect them in the right timing to mean different things. 16:32:33 Imagine Br***fuck written in BrainF***. 16:33:14 You could build it one bit at a time, if you wanted to. 16:33:32 You could eventually build a forth out of the BF*** 16:33:45 It would roundly suck and be astonishingly slow, but yes. 16:34:06 hi Quartus. Good day? 16:34:10 No complaints. Yours? 16:34:36 It was fine. Little hecktic but it slowed down nicely about an hour before leaveing. 16:34:50 Raystm2: Havent heard of Br***fuck. Is it different to BF? 16:34:52 Good news. 16:35:30 no amca, sorry, I seem to think i'm funny. In fact, try not to ever take offence from what I say, I do it for comedic value only, never to harm. 16:35:36 Quartus? 16:35:40 Yes? 16:35:50 Good news? 16:35:56 Your last hour, I mean. 16:36:05 Oh sorry. 16:36:25 Raystm2: I didnt take offense, I just didnt realiuse it was a bad pun :) 16:36:29 Yes I was able to catch up to my day, with out leaving something to start Monday with. 16:36:50 that's what everything I say amounts to, a bad pun :) 16:37:00 No kidding. 16:37:25 I like to play with words. 16:37:35 I find that brain is more offensive then fuck 16:37:40 Raystm2: Me too. Im bad at it >.> 16:37:44 I dont 16:37:45 :) 16:37:53 I find a lack of brain more offensive than fuck 16:38:32 either way, your smart and you don't use it right your a *ucktard(see kc5tja for definition) . 16:39:03 see also any dictator smart enough to gain rule and dumb enough to keep it. 16:39:38 Quartus: Did I greet you? 16:40:25 * Raystm2 wonders about greeting. Is it that people who are always on have already greeted, or is it supposed to be a daily ritual? 16:40:43 --- part: slava left #forth 16:41:24 Raystm2: IMO, greeting a person is a way of acknowledging that they exist and have some importance to you. 16:41:32 Hi amca :) 16:42:16 Hi Ray! :P 16:42:24 Hi Quartus, anyway. :) 16:42:52 That's right, isn't it. It's cordial, polite, expected, helps to break the ice, gives everybody a starting place, and allows the rest of the people to know where you entered the convo. 16:43:10 oh definately HI Quartus :) 16:43:54 Well I never say hello just to be polite. I always have (or try to have) a concious reason when I do things 16:44:21 so manipulation then? 16:44:43 Everything is manipulation. It is just a matter if it is healthy or unhealthy manipulation. :) 16:45:44 agreed. 16:45:47 well said. 16:46:05 Social interaction is not natural to me, so it is always concious if I am to be socially appropriate. 16:46:16 I am a philosopher. :) 16:46:21 Cool. 16:46:37 Once a Philosopher, twice a pervert. 16:46:46 lol 16:46:49 I sould have quoted that. 16:46:50 Where did you get that? 16:46:59 from Eric Idle .... 16:47:04 trying to remember where... 16:47:13 With Python... 16:47:14 Couldbe any Monty pythoin thing :) 16:47:17 ya 16:47:31 * amca like python humour 16:47:39 Quartus is good at Python humour. 16:47:45 Oh? 16:48:05 Yeah, he gets a good one in there. 16:48:26 Wait, it's pizza. Slice? 16:48:33 crc: can I ask what stuff in rx you were rewriting, and why? 16:48:58 (O0o> <-- pepperoni 16:49:03 Now you have made me hungry for pizza :P 16:49:23 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving") 16:49:34 amca, I changed the way flags were handled, the dictionary model, and aspects of the compiler in an attempt to clean up the source and make it more flexible 16:49:41 cool 16:50:11 some of the changes also make it easier to write code that will still run even when I make further changes 16:50:28 good idea :) 16:50:36 sort of separating the high level words from the internal implementation a little :) 16:50:40 Do ppl refactor forth code at all? 16:50:54 Sure. 16:51:15 I've thrown away several ChuckBot's due to factoring. 16:51:42 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-158-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:51:51 amca, I do 16:51:57 I abandoned b18chess due to the increadable job of factoring that's gonna take. 16:52:08 * crc constantly refactors his existing code 16:52:15 * amca nods 16:52:16 cool 16:52:30 That wont make me feel so bad having to refactor mine all the time :) 16:52:31 I'll just start over, when retro is in a stable state and I can understand it. 16:52:45 It's what you do, when you do forth. 16:52:53 :) 16:54:28 my first goal in Rx was to remove all I/O dependencies from the core code, leaving I/O words to the optional modules (prior to this, retroforth required a couple of console I/O to exist in the assembly portion) 16:54:51 doing that let me clean up a *lot* of code internally 16:54:52 * amca nods 16:55:30 development of the ports is much easier when I can write in Forth rather than assembly :) 16:55:40 crc: My idea of a minimal forth would be one that depends only on the processor and memory. Everything else can be done with metacompilation. How does that sound? 16:56:06 you need some way to get information in and out of that minimal core 16:57:22 crc: how would you be prevented from doing so? 16:57:32 mmm 16:57:46