00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.12.01 00:12:02 --- quit: amca (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:19:39 --- quit: JasonWoof ("off to bed") 00:54:21 --- join: Ray_work2 (n=vircuser@adsl-66-142-169-152.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 00:54:22 --- quit: Ray_work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:55:46 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-48-140.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:10:35 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:39:44 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:40:08 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-48-140.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 01:45:01 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-1-127.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 01:45:39 Gday 03:20:43 Gday 03:37:16 --- join: homeness (n=Miranda@savant.kz) joined #forth 04:03:12 --- quit: homeness ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 04:12:48 --- quit: amca ("d34d") 04:16:52 --- join: akebono (i=fujiwara@218.231.196.155.eo.eaccess.ne.jp) joined #forth 04:16:53 Quote: A book worth reading is worth buying. -- John Ruskin 04:19:14 --- quit: akebono (Client Quit) 04:30:18 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool198-4.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:42:45 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm 06:27:23 hmmm 06:53:02 --- join: virl (n=hmpf@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at) joined #forth 07:12:40 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 07:14:26 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-2pool198-57.nas30.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 07:36:32 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 07:43:02 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 08:01:10 --- quit: I440r (Success) 08:14:19 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 09:24:36 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 09:27:51 --- join: segher (n=segher@blueice2n1.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 09:32:20 --- join: JasonWoof (n=jason@c-71-192-20-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:32:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 09:56:28 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 09:56:57 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 09:57:10 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth 10:50:14 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:27:25 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-3pool157-76.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 11:52:26 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-169-108.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:06:30 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 12:06:33 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 12:52:32 --- join: JasonWoo1 (n=jason@c-71-192-20-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:52:53 --- join: amca (n=plump@as-bri-3-69.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 13:00:55 --- quit: JasonWoof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:06:31 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection) 13:08:27 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...") 13:32:26 --- join: geoffb (n=geoff@adsl-69-110-115-185.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:33:54 I just managed to get my first real Forth implementation bootstrapped! 13:34:11 congratz! 13:34:11 Just had to share that with people that might understand why I've now got a grin that won't quit. :-) 13:34:17 hehe 13:34:45 yay :) 13:34:49 --- nick: JasonWoo1 -> JasonWoof 13:34:53 thanks, segher and JasonWoof 13:34:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o JasonWoof 13:35:27 geoffb: does it compile itself? 13:36:02 jasonwoof: of course it does -- he said "first REAL forth impl" 13:36:09 hihi 13:36:23 oh, and that is what bootstrapping means, anyway 13:36:38 segher: that's what I hoped it meant, but sometimes people here have quite different definitions for things 13:36:52 sure 13:37:06 I got my latest forth project to bootstrap last saturday :) 13:37:08 "to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" 13:37:25 the way to go :) 13:37:29 Partially -- all high-level words are defined in a prelude, which is read by the bootstrapper to fill the dictionary with non-prims -- as soon as it understands how, it begins to compile using the already-defined high level words. 13:37:42 I still seem to have one bug, as I have to bootstrap twice in a row before it generates a working image file 13:38:15 jasonwoof: document it --> bug solved ;-) 13:38:20 segher, heh 13:38:28 heh 13:39:05 Now the challenge is to push the line at which it switches modes back as far as possible. 13:39:19 :) 13:39:38 (I guess there's not really a line per se, it's slowly reverting to high-level words as it goes) 13:39:43 yes, but in what direction? 13:40:12 Pure high-level as soon as possible 13:40:40 oh, you mean you "hand-compile" some stuff first? 13:41:04 like, comma the first few words in "by hand" 13:41:28 Yeah . . . because certain words like, well, : itself, don't exist in the beginning, the bootstrapper can do : by hand . . . but then midway in the prelude, : is defined. 13:41:40 right 13:41:52 try using a cross compiler instead :-) 13:42:35 Well, I started writing this without knowing any Forth at all, so I'm still learning the tricks of the trade. :-) 13:43:14 you're doing a nice job then, it seems. keep it up :-) 13:43:44 yeah :) good work 13:44:07 By the way, I've learned everything so far from Learning Forth, Thinking Forth, and the CamelForth articles . . . any other good suggested reading? 13:44:12 thanks! 13:44:43 read the ans forth std 13:45:36 Oh yeah, duh, I've got that. I haven't read it end to end, because it's too damn much all at once. But I usually read each word def and the matching appendix before I implement it. 13:46:11 Though if I was stuck with only the spec, I would never have understood some of the words. It seems to assume readers are already proficient. 13:47:00 yes, of course -- it isn't a teaching tool, it is a reference 13:47:12 it is good to read it back-to-back a few times though 13:47:26 but you need to interleave that with more teaching-oriented stuff 13:47:50 also, read other people's code 13:48:00 Nodnod. I just mean that some of the appendix entries that say nothing but "Usual use: : FOO ... BAR ... BAZ ... QUUX ; " don't really help much. 13:48:10 that helps a lot, teaches you tricks, idioms, style... 13:48:17 heh 13:48:31 that's mostly for showing words that are (normally) used in pairs 13:48:50 OTOH, appendix entries like PARSE are very helpful in understanding reasoning. 13:49:18 the appendix shows the diffs between ans and f79/f83 13:50:00 if you learn forth in this day and age, you better ignore those older standards :-) 13:50:24 Any suggestions for well-written small to medium sized open source Forth projects? I should start with something I might be able to chew. 13:50:28 heh 13:51:12 try tt 13:51:40 * geoffb blinks 13:51:47 * geoffb googles 13:51:59 it is in the gforth distro 13:52:10 it's public domain code 13:52:19 tt, that is; not gforth 13:52:30 "tetris for terminals" :-) 13:52:36 oh, heh 13:55:04 Took me a while to find where Debian sticks gforth's examples . . . OK, got it. 13:55:31 /usr/local/lib/gforth.... 13:55:51 /usr/share/gforth/0.6.2/ on Debian 13:56:23 oh yeah 13:56:37 * segher has spent too long on macosx now 13:59:34 Hmmm, pretty readable . . . and it looks like my forth could handle a lot of it, but there are a number of words (especially at the top), that I'll need to learn and implement. 13:59:41 Thanks, segher 13:59:48 np 14:00:01 *every* Forth system should have tt builtin :-) 14:00:33 heh 14:00:51 I notice PFE ships a copy too 14:01:14 * geoffb installed every Forth that Debian packaged, so I could compare behaviors 14:01:42 Quartus Forth doesn't ship a copy -- proportional fonts on the Palm. :) 14:02:50 What is implied by the file extension .4th versus .fs? 14:02:55 nothing 14:03:03 Nothing. .fs is what gforth uses to suggest 'Forth Sequential' 14:03:06 some people use .fth, too 14:03:13 forth source 14:03:16 as opposed to .fb, in gforth is 'forth blocks' 14:03:38 some people use .f -- but that is more commonly used for fortran, already 14:03:40 Quartus, as in 1K blocks with implied wrap mod 64? 14:03:49 64x16 blocks, yes 14:03:51 geoffb, yes -- a .fb in gforth is a file used to hold blocks 14:03:59 segher, right, that's why I had instinctively avoided .f :-) 14:04:34 .4, .4th, .fth, .fs, .f -- whatever floats your boat. 14:04:44 vim and perhaps some other editors know about .fs -- that's why i use it 14:05:06 .oO( I wonder about Emacs ... ) 14:05:30 emacs needs this -*- shit i guess 14:05:48 bleah, yeah, it didn't autodetect on .fs 14:06:05 And .4 gets NROFF 14:06:22 yeah, man 4 14:07:29 meta-x forth-mode gets it though 14:07:32 ooh color 14:07:38 yeah yuck, color 14:07:52 awful color scheme, though, very hard to read 14:08:00 Perhaps I'll just leave it fundamental 14:08:22 forth source code is free-form text anyway... 14:08:29 * geoffb has not yet tackled Emacs Lisp ... :-) 14:08:43 keep it that way :-) 14:08:45 segher, nodnod. 14:09:10 in fact, don't use emacs at all if you're sane (and want to stay that way) 14:09:36 I mostly use it because it will exist on most machines I need to touch. 14:09:57 Same reason many people use vi, I suppose. 14:12:29 Quartus, are there no fixed fonts on the Palm at all? I ask because an old friend of mine wrote a snazzy Z-code interpreter for Palm, and I could swear he had to deal with that. 14:12:42 Perhaps he just included his own bitmaps, I dunno. 14:13:07 i would think it has courier or similar 14:15:12 think it has fixed-width 14:16:29 huh 14:16:45 memopad on my old palm (palm V) only has three fonts, and none are fixed width 14:17:14 blitting your own bitmaps shouldn't be that hard anyway 14:17:52 For words that detect limits, such as UNUSED, is there a convention for how to say "limited only by host", as in "Go ahead, allocate your brains out, lets see how much swap you have"? 14:18:11 one less than the max int? 14:18:28 JasonWoof, nodnod 14:32:30 --- quit: segher () 14:59:26 Hello 15:07:30 08\ 15:10:50 WTF? 15:10:59 A yellow '\' - was that intended? 15:12:49 is that some form of colorforth word? :) 16:09:08 Anyone want to chat with me? 16:15:16 --- nick: nanstm -> Raystm2 16:15:46 hi amca :) 16:15:50 --- join: amca_ (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-169.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 16:15:52 hi snowrichard :) 16:15:57 hi amca 16:16:39 Hi Ray 16:16:45 How are you today? 16:16:57 --- quit: amca (Nick collision from services.) 16:17:04 --- nick: amca_ -> amca 16:17:13 Excellant! :D 16:17:22 Great! :) 16:17:44 Been having very interesting chats about design methodology with people :) 16:17:48 How are you? 16:18:49 I am well. What is the consensus of the "design methodology with people"? 16:19:06 I think you should just leave the people out of it. 16:19:19 Why design things with people in the thing. 16:19:36 Some people prefer the Software Engineering (SE) approach (namely me) others prefer the hackish/ad hoc approach. 16:19:46 You'd have to feed them, bath them, never mind "potty issues". 16:19:57 Raystm2: : Power! Ultimate power! :P 16:20:50 Ultimate power? Your thinking way too small if your limiting your power to this particular rock. 16:21:20 Humans are social animals. 16:21:26 this is true 16:21:32 Hence the ultimate power humans have is over other people. 16:21:38 Particularly themselves/ 16:21:41 :) 16:21:43 we exist, therefore we are 16:22:04 We da man! 16:22:10 hehe 16:22:15 What have you been up to of late? 16:22:24 Struggling at work. 16:22:36 Delinquent on my dot-info site. 16:22:52 Ah 16:22:55 Relaxing and enjoying it. 16:23:01 What is work again? (sorry) 16:23:57 I design, procure, sell materials handling devices. 16:24:19 I'm the Master Caster Bastard. 16:25:15 Materials handling devices? 16:25:24 Ah. As in caster wheels? 16:25:38 Dollies, Carts, Palletjacks, Yes casters... 16:25:57 anything low tech that a company needs to be a company. 16:26:08 huh? 16:26:15 I see 16:26:20 all the warehouse stuff, like palletrack... 16:26:25 tools. 16:26:34 Yep. I deciphered what you meant. :) 16:26:34 desks and chairs even. 16:26:43 So where is your website? 16:26:53 www.colorforth.info 16:27:08 Work one I meant, sorry. 16:27:46 What, my boss pay for a website? If you only knew him, you'd laugh with me and at us all at the same time :) 16:27:53 lol 16:27:56 Okay... 16:28:02 :) 16:28:06 closest thing we have is... 16:28:13 Can I ask what position you have in the company? 16:28:23 our sister store in dallas has a pretty good one. 16:28:39 I'm sortof an every position guy there. 16:28:44 It's a small company 16:28:51 7 employees. 16:29:13 I've been the warehouseman, and the VP of OPS all in the same hour. 16:29:23 hmm 16:29:35 what is your official job name? 16:30:14 we don't use any titles there. 3 of us are directly under the owner. 16:30:32 Ah 16:30:43 So the titles are "boss" and "employee" :) 16:30:47 me, the accounts manager, and another salesman. 16:30:50 yes 16:31:03 Do you work to live, or live to work? 16:31:03 the hirearchy is based on knowledge. 16:31:25 work to live, currently. I believe I know how to change that situation for myself. 16:31:27 Meritocracy? 16:32:03 That's pretty good work to sum it up 16:32:05 Do you wish to live to work? 16:32:16 Yes. 16:32:41 I'm not really happy at this company. I've worked here 3 times now. 16:32:54 last time I was the VP of OPS. 16:33:01 we had titles back then. 16:33:16 I was only responsible to the boss. 16:33:17 Ah 16:33:20 Why did it change? 16:34:09 It's kind of complicated, but, I was replaced when the owner brought in a guy that should have been able to grow our company. 16:34:53 And he didnt? 16:34:59 They failed in that endevor and I was asked to return, along with the guy that was my Vp of OPS before me. 16:35:14 hehe 16:35:39 So what sort of employment would you like to have so that you can live to work? 16:35:44 The two of us sort of share the position, but i like to include our newest salesman, ( also asked to return) . 16:36:33 I would like to build 5 websites to earn my living. 16:36:56 Well, one would be just plain free forever. the first one, the colorforth one. 16:37:41 You intend to sell colorforth? Or do you currently? 16:37:55 --- join: amca_ (n=plump@as-bri-4-1-169.ozonline.com.au) joined #forth 16:38:25 But I claim to beable to teach anybody how to play 80% + of all songs ever written in the western hemisphere in under 15 minutes. 16:38:40 on guitar. 16:38:56 no not sell colorforth. 16:39:18 But I would like to create a security thru obscurity with colorforth, then sell that! 16:39:36 --- quit: amca_ (Client Quit) 16:39:45 lol 16:40:24 I also have an organizer I developed called folendar ( sounds folly ender) 16:40:32 and stands for 16:40:35 Raystm2: A person can play any song in history with only 1 or two strings at a time cant they? 16:40:43 sure 16:40:49 and stands for 16:41:05 go on :) 16:41:38 free onlife email newsletter dedicated to achieveing/archiving results. 16:41:59 as a test of folendar, i will be using it to document the guitar site. 16:42:21 Hmm 16:42:26 So a mailing list site? 16:42:28 this information, about getting a business on line and successful, will be built with folendar 16:42:29 yes 16:42:50 Why not just adapt current mailing list software etc? 16:42:55 there will be a third site that is a business about getting a busness online. 16:43:09 to do? 16:43:29 "free onlife email newsletter dedicated to achieveing/archiving results" 16:43:51 I'm gonna be using standard, easy to get, or free software, and documenting how to us it. 16:44:01 Good idea :) 16:44:10 use even 16:44:28 and organizing it all with folendar, 16:44:34 To "us" it, do you bomb it with cruise missiles? ;) 16:44:35 testing folendar along the way 16:44:43 yes and often 16:44:44 hehe 16:44:54 So folendar is the app glue? 16:45:06 it's my pythohn 16:45:10 python 16:45:10 even 16:45:38 Your python? How do you mean? 16:45:40 I'd love to write an app in forth to manipulate folendar with a palm or a desktop. 16:45:48 Python is a glue language. 16:45:59 Not necessarily :) 16:46:14 Python is not a glue language? 16:46:31 Any language can be a glue language if it can operate with system functions. ;) 16:46:41 C can be used as a glue lang. Not a very effective one.... 16:46:50 hehe 16:47:10 machine man, that's the glue lang. 16:47:11 Myself, I would view bash scripting as more of a glue language than Python 16:47:22 I see. 16:47:25 Nah. Machine is too platform specific 16:47:27 and I understand that. 16:47:39 ahehe 16:47:41 Glue languages I would say operate at (at least) the OS level. 16:47:54 forth, glue not needed. 16:47:55 Some OS's like Linux help the languages. :) 16:48:04 ya 16:48:08 In Forth, Forth can *be* the OS :P 16:48:15 Glue need not apply. 16:48:54 9the Forth an be the structuire *and* the glue. :) 16:49:06 yes. 16:49:22 Is colorforth OO? 16:49:31 I was shocked how minimal you can get with it and loose no information to the user. 16:50:03 You could build OO with colorforth, but its not a standard feature. 16:50:25 Doesn't come with the download. 16:50:38 hmmm 16:50:46 But its still a fully functional forth, and anything you can do in forth... 16:51:00 yep 16:51:20 --- join: snoopy_1711 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-161-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 16:51:22 It's extreamly minimal, and so much so that even forthies complain. 16:51:39 Is there only one data type? 16:52:09 What data types does it natively support? 16:52:19 Yes, I suppose having no data types is the same as having one. 16:52:39 So the Word is the only DT? 16:52:48 machine word, rather. Cell 16:52:53 yes. 16:53:13 Not even char/byte is suppoorted natively? 16:53:14 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.) 16:53:18 --- nick: snoopy_1711 -> Snoopy42 16:54:08 @ will fetch a byte. c@ a char... 16:54:20 So, yes, then :) 16:54:28 Yes. 16:54:50 IMO, the minimal DT set that a forth system can have is having machine words and bytes. Everything else can be derived from those two. What do you think? 16:55:13 I think that colorforth proves that statement. 16:55:24 :) 16:55:58 Would you like to tell me how color affects syntax in cf, or would you prefer I look it up online right now? 16:55:59 c@ and @ are defined interms of machine macros in colorforth. 16:56:19 Well, its really very easy to understand. 16:56:25 Using the asm definition of macro? 16:56:59 You could, if you wish. That's how dup and drop are defined. 16:57:29 but you can even use a hexidecimal rep of the actual machine code if you wish. 16:57:38 sweet :) Machine coding :) 16:57:56 that's what a colorforth macro is, or i should say one of what it could be. 16:58:30 So how is color used in CF? 16:58:40 red = : name 16:58:44 should I use 'cf' or 'CF'? 16:58:50 cf :) 16:59:05 it's more ComForthable 16:59:26 so when in forth we use... 16:59:29 : name 16:59:34 that would be in colorforth 16:59:53 4name 17:00:11 Ah 17:00:17 the red work would have a cr associated with it in the editor and that would start a new line. 17:00:22 work = word. 17:00:46 so = : ? 17:00:50 yes 17:00:53 I see 17:01:08 So it is about words and delimiters by colors? 17:01:09 green words are compiled into red names. 17:01:16 yes 17:01:21 cool 17:01:38 so green words are prevously defined red words. 17:01:56 there are two dictionaries. 17:01:57 Myself I would prefer to have a forth editor that didnt use a colorforth, but a normal forth with color syntax highlighting. 17:02:04 I see. 17:02:34 I like to be able to see my code in 7 bit ASCII where necessary 17:02:54 Do you have a translation standard for color to ascii? 17:03:43 there is a progy called cf2html that renders the colorforth byte code as html, and you can see an example at... 17:03:56 Ah. So the answer is no. :) 17:04:21 http://www.colorforth.info/cb0508211617.html 17:05:11 there is a block of colorforth code that will translate colorforth to ascii and back and is used in Howerd Oakfords editor, itself written in colorforth. 17:05:19 Have you ever considered calling colorforth 'confer'? ;) 17:06:28 I've never considered it, why? 17:07:31 It is my attempt at an intellectual pun. c.f. is the abbreviation of the latin 'confer,' meaning 'compare.' 17:08:32 hmm. cf doesnt render appropriately in lynx or links. 17:10:24 So what domain is cf intended to work in? 17:10:49 Any domain that displays colour to al least 16 bits? 17:11:25 al = at 17:11:48 colorforth came from CM's need to build a scripting engine for his OKAD chip design program, itself written in machine code on an x86 box. 17:12:10 using debug. 17:12:45 The colorforth portion was given a bootable front end in asm. 17:13:11 And where did the domain for cf evolve to today? 17:13:14 the boot section uses only one call to bios to get the display frame or some such. 17:13:20 oh. 17:13:43 It's not really very evolved. 17:13:51 the cost of entry is pretty high. 17:14:03 you have to have a few things going for you to get it running. 17:14:12 What are they? 17:14:21 the right hardware :) 17:14:25 yes 17:14:41 colorforth is *very, very* picky on the floppy controller and video card 17:14:50 in a nut shell. 17:15:15 So it's domain is restricted to a specific instance of hardware, rather than a type of hardware? 17:15:15 and it's having trouble working with usb as well. 17:15:42 currently, but that condition only remains as long as there is no one to port it. 17:15:45 it's domain is targetted to the specific hardware that chuck moore (and a few others) have 17:15:52 Okay. 17:16:04 Does cf have ambiotions to be more generic in future? 17:16:44 I don't think so. I think this a language as a test of minimalism. 17:17:05 And unportability? 17:17:16 sorry, by generic, I meant porable./ 17:17:20 protable. 17:17:23 Ah! 17:17:27 anything more useful could be built on this, it is forth after all, but then i think you start to leave colorforth relm as you solve general problems 17:17:28 *portable*! 17:18:00 So it is not intended to be a portable lang? 17:18:08 not really 17:18:14 ok 17:18:16 it's an example 17:18:25 Raystm2, but the other part was to explore ways to work around CM's vision problems, right? 17:18:32 of what could be done on every machine, but no two will look alike. 17:19:10 geoffb, i'm not aware of his vision problems, but I've seen colorforths of every size font. 17:19:10 For cf to be able to be a more portable language, some sort of transliteration scheme to ascii would be necessary. Perhaps using XML. eg myword 17:19:12 Pack more code in a big font onto the screen by removing : [ ] and so on? 17:19:52 amca you can use cf2html to do such a thing. 17:20:41 Raystm2, but you can't import the html back into cf 17:20:49 there is that 17:20:59 wait 17:21:02 block 48 17:21:15 Ray_work2: HTML is a little too complex and complete for it to be useful for b+w printing on a dot matrix, for example. 17:21:16 IMO 17:21:18 that's an ascii-cf and cf-ascii translater. 17:21:35 can you show me a url with example? 17:21:58 amca you could use Howerd Oakfords editor, it has colorblind mode and writes the code like old forth. 17:22:28 I see 17:22:59 Okay, Im satified with the answers now. :) 17:23:22 Raystm2: What is your main passion in life? 17:23:57 Sex 17:24:11 Only, I'm passed it. 17:24:27 Do you have any plans to use sex to support your life(style)? 17:24:52 I used to like to have sex all night, now it takes me all night to have sex. :) 17:25:02 hehe 17:25:30 What is the biggest passion you have that you wish to use to support your life(style) with? 17:26:00 Problem solving. 17:26:11 * amca would like to create a minimal, portable, OO forth. 17:26:13 Ah 17:26:23 Good choice. :) 17:26:51 I would rather see a problem solved then be right. 17:27:00 Im the opposite. :) 17:27:09 so was i 17:27:39 it takes practice, what you have is a habit. I used to love to be offended, till I got over the habit. 17:28:30 I was thinking that the forth could choose the correct primitives to execute natively. for example, it would select whether to use the x86 or the PPC dup primitive, depending on the machine it is on, but I dont think it is practical. 17:28:52 Oh, I try to be right, but not be offended by others doing it wrong. 17:29:02 that's good. 17:29:10 brb 17:29:16 I try to only hold myself to the standards of doing something right, and only expect that of others when it directsly affects me. 17:29:19 ok 17:29:54 crc: do you think that a h/ware generic forth like I described above is practical? 17:30:51 amca, it could be 17:31:06 a lot depends on the degree of minimalism you aim for 17:31:27 the Forth VM would have a byte at the beginning of its memory that determines the h/ware platform type 17:32:10 Or even s/ware primitives for those that use external C libraries 17:32:12 >.> 17:32:48 amca, i've envisioned a polling program that would poll your machine and then assemble the perfect colorforth for you. 17:33:03 Raystm2: Cool 17:33:07 Where is it? 17:33:15