00:00:00 --- log: started forth/05.11.15
00:03:28 <amca> Starting to cook up the rice now
00:03:42 <amca> Im gonna have mealworms, rice and veges for tea tonight
00:14:24 --- quit: LOOP-HOG ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.1/20040707]")
00:18:59 --- quit: zoly (Remote closed the connection)
00:42:06 --- quit: amca ("d34d")
00:52:17 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:58:32 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-35-214.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
01:23:36 --- quit: swalters (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:37:21 --- join: osh (i=74081307@Orleans-ppp42660.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
03:41:50 --- part: osh left #forth
03:58:18 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:59:41 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-40-115.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
04:20:43 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:21:24 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-40-115.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
04:27:59 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-250-181.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
04:40:16 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:00:50 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-3pool158-76.nas24.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
05:01:13 <PoppaVic> G'day
06:47:54 --- nick: Raystm2_ -> nanstm
06:49:40 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-95-255-176.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
06:51:37 --- quit: PoppaVic ("Pulls the pin...")
06:55:25 --- join: tathi (n=josh@pdpc/supporter/bronze/tathi) joined #forth
07:05:26 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:06:26 --- nick: Raystm2 -> nanstm
07:20:06 --- join: PoppaVic (n=pete@0-1pool65-94.nas22.chicago4.il.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth
07:29:10 <JasonWoof> anybody know how to turn gforth's stupid "redefined" warnings off?
07:29:40 <tathi> hrm.  I think I figured it out at one point...
07:33:00 <JasonWoof> maybe I should use another forth
07:33:05 <JasonWoof> isforth ppc segfaults
07:33:16 <tathi> it does?
07:33:20 <JasonWoof> kernel.com segfaults when I try to de extend, or just run it from the command line
07:33:37 <tathi> grr.  I thought I had got it working properly.
07:34:10 <tathi> warnings off
07:34:14 <tathi> that'll fix it.
07:34:23 <tathi> (gforth)
07:34:29 <JasonWoof> #0  0x10000174 in move_header ()
07:34:30 <JasonWoof> #1  0x1000020c in reloc_thread ()
07:34:37 <JasonWoof> ahh, thanks
07:34:44 <PoppaVic> hi tathi 
07:34:55 <tathi> morning
07:35:04 <JasonWoof> tathi: you can try it on my box if you like. home.jasonwoof.org
07:38:32 --- join: ez4 (n=ez4@pcp0010474571pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth
07:38:47 <tathi> huh.  If I build it on my box, it works.
07:38:51 <tathi> but not if I build it on yours.
07:39:50 <tathi> hrm...kernel.com built on your box is 1.1 MB -- on mine, it's 30 KB.
07:39:53 <JasonWoof> It's only too bad these damn things don't make any statements
07:40:04 <tathi> must be some linker thing.
07:40:05 <tathi> yeah :)
07:40:32 <JasonWoof> had to define some strange words to work in gforth... like NOT and SP
07:40:41 <PoppaVic> prolly has to do with .so vs .a and PIC and whatnot
07:40:45 <JasonWoof> at least it has OR
07:41:04 <tathi> ANS calls it INVERT
07:41:18 <tathi> SP meaning stack pointer?
07:41:57 <tathi> ah, bugger.  Looks like it's creating a PROGBITS .bss section.
07:42:10 <tathi> meaning it puts the contents in the file -- should be NOBITS.
07:42:13 <tathi> that can't help.
07:43:51 <JasonWoof> : sp 32 emit ;
07:44:01 <JasonWoof> maybe it ANS it's SPACE
07:45:19 <JasonWoof> BTW, after using it for a while, I think it's very handy to be able to put in ascii constants into my forth code
07:45:35 <JasonWoof> I extended the number parser in herkforth to accept things in the form #c
07:45:45 <PoppaVic> as in ^C and 'a' ?
07:45:55 <JasonWoof> #a would be 97 etc
07:46:02 <PoppaVic> yeah - similar
07:46:40 <JasonWoof> and once I had that, I manually added constants with the same naming scheme for characters I can't put in the source. such as #sp for space (32)
07:47:06 <PoppaVic> using \b makes more sense to me ;->
07:47:28 <PoppaVic> or something similar, anyway (yeah, that was a backspace)
07:47:46 <JasonWoof> backspace?
07:47:52 <PoppaVic> "\b"
07:48:08 <JasonWoof> I don't have any mechanism for doing non-printables in this way. you just define them yourself
07:48:16 <tathi> yah, ANS has SPACE and SPACES.  also BL puts it on the stack.
07:48:21 <JasonWoof> you can do:   8 constant #\b
07:48:28 <PoppaVic> tathi: those are better
07:48:33 <JasonWoof> tathi: ahh, forgot about BL
07:51:49 <PoppaVic> humph... OK, I am nearly on the horns on a dilemma needing feedback.
07:53:17 <PoppaVic> I'm thinking that a database "key" is just too painful with prog(args) being used. I'm thinking that folks would prefer using a label of their own devising.
07:54:31 <PoppaVic> For example, here is a test-line: ERRNO   gcc;            "-o /dev/null -c guess.c"
07:55:08 <PoppaVic> here's a simulation of a "key": KEY[0:gcc(-o /dev/null -c guess.c)]
07:55:27 <tathi> JasonWoof: ok, fixed isforth -- patch in my home dir on your box.
07:55:49 <PoppaVic> I'm thinking of changing the former to something like... ERRNO(SYMBOL)...
07:55:55 <tathi> stupid linker thought .bss sections were supposed to take up space in the executable.
07:57:29 <PoppaVic> any feedback, tathi ?
07:59:01 <tathi> no
07:59:07 <PoppaVic> h'ok
08:02:23 <tathi> Well, I don't understand your key system in the first place.
08:02:49 <PoppaVic> Yep, I figured that <shrug> I'm not suprised,
08:03:12 <tathi> So the latter is probably an improvement :)
08:03:42 <PoppaVic> I am thinking about adopting an INI-like system, just to simplify further yet.
08:05:23 <PoppaVic> THe thing that's important to recall is: we run all the assorted tests into a database, generating keys/refs... Checking back seems possible, but mostly it's for C-code lookup or for scripts (in something like forthish).
08:06:53 <PoppaVic> I want the tests _done_.. Available for checking, be it error-codes or captures or whatever. THe 'sh/m4' crap I've seen for autoshit makes me want to gag and projectile-vomit.
08:07:44 <tathi> See, now, that part of your system bothers me.
08:07:54 <tathi> What happens when the user installs a new package?
08:07:56 <PoppaVic> yep, not suprised.
08:08:01 <tathi> Then your data could be out of date.
08:08:05 <PoppaVic> so what?
08:08:13 <PoppaVic> the database can be recreated
08:08:40 <PoppaVic> it's mostly per-app at this time - I find the speed doesn't necessitate a global one-shot.
08:09:09 <tathi> Oh, ok then.
08:09:28 <PoppaVic> but, yeah: once Metabuilder itself is installed, there should be a way to store shit and recall it, methinks.
08:09:59 <PoppaVic> So far, all my test-runs of the tools are almost too fast to follow.
08:10:21 <tathi> yeah, I do wish autoconf was a little faster.
08:10:36 <tathi> It's not hard to globally cache stuff if you want, but it's still not as fast as I'd like.
08:10:46 <PoppaVic> ..if that speed is consistent, then just the compiled PROGRAM is what matters, the datafiles just allow for flexibility.
08:11:09 <tathi> cool
08:13:11 <tathi> well, I've got to run.
08:30:40 <JasonWoof> tathi: thanks for the patch
09:41:39 --- quit: ez4 ()
09:44:41 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
09:52:33 <JasonWoof> ok, I made an irc log parser and pretty printer in gforth
09:53:00 <JasonWoof> suppose there's any reason I should bother outputting named html entitios (eg &nbsp; and &lt;)
09:53:03 <JasonWoof> entities
09:53:47 <JasonWoof> right now I'm just spitting out numbered entities for anything I don't consider a normal character
09:54:44 <PoppaVic> limits are facts of life ;-)
09:55:35 --- quit: PoppaVic ("calls it a Knight")
09:57:51 * JasonWoof limits PoppaVic
09:58:00 * tathi wants to see the source
09:58:28 <tathi> (for the log parser thingy)
10:06:34 <JasonWoof> ok, just a sec
10:06:45 <JasonWoof> do you know how to get vim not to wrap text you're typing?
10:06:53 <JasonWoof> help says to set textwidth=0
10:07:01 <JasonWoof> but it invariably get's set to 78
10:07:25 <JasonWoof> maybe I need to make my own "text" syntax mode so it won't use the default one
10:08:12 <tathi> yeah, set it to zero.
10:08:26 <tathi> then if you use gq it will wrap at 80, but won't autowrap.
10:08:43 <tathi> huh.  mine is usually 0 by default...
10:11:34 <JasonWoof> mine get's set to 78 for "text" files
10:11:38 <JasonWoof> can't get it to stop
10:11:49 <JasonWoof> even made my own syntax mode for text files
10:12:07 <JasonWoof> and set my filetypes.vim to use that mode for everything
10:12:13 <JasonWoof> and it did for everything except text files
10:12:48 <tathi> and you don't have textwidth anywhere else in your .vimrc or .vim/ stuff?
10:20:48 <JasonWoof> I don't see it anywhere
10:20:58 <JasonWoof> it started doing this when I upgraded vim a while back
10:21:03 <tathi> ah.
10:21:06 <JasonWoof> I've been tollerating it for a while
10:21:08 <tathi> what version are you using now?
10:21:51 <JasonWoof> 6.3.068
10:22:41 * tathi is still at 6.1
10:25:05 <tathi> oh, wait.  you probably have to set some variable in your syntax file, otherwise the default one may overwrite it.
10:28:11 <tathi> try: let b:current_syntax = "text"
10:28:13 <tathi> or something.
10:35:04 <JasonWoof> ok, now it has some documentation :)
10:35:05 <JasonWoof> http://jasonwoof.com/downloads/filb-05-11-15.txt
10:42:06 <JasonWoof> oops. bug
10:42:32 <JasonWoof> ok, uploaded new version. same url
10:46:30 <JasonWoof> oh bugger
10:46:36 <JasonWoof> no...
10:46:37 <JasonWoof> hmmm
10:47:18 <JasonWoof> think I need to do something more intelligent with spaces
10:51:55 <JasonWoof> html is such a pita
10:52:09 <tathi> heh.
10:52:46 <virl> what is the pita about html? 
10:53:20 <JasonWoof> well, for starters I've stopped encoding it as $#32;
10:54:00 <JasonWoof> virl: all the weird things you have to do to get normal text to display properly in it
10:54:34 <JasonWoof> virl: it's overly verbose, has 8 different kind of end markers
10:54:38 <virl> define 'normal text' textfiles? <pre>?
10:55:15 <JasonWoof> pre is a bit easier, but only if it does exactly what I want
10:56:27 <JasonWoof> I often want all characters to be displayed as they are (including multiple spaces in a row) but have it still wrap
10:56:30 <virl> when html is a pita for you, which format would better fit to your needs? 
10:56:37 <JasonWoof> I don't even know a good way to do this.
10:56:47 <JasonWoof> perhaps make every other space in a row a nbsp
10:56:58 <JasonWoof> I don't know any good formats
10:57:13 <virl> well..
10:57:21 <JasonWoof> the ones I'm farmilliar with attempt to be "human readable" which makes it a pita for code to deal with
11:00:21 <virl> well.. most languages aren't really human readable in a practical situation
11:01:14 <tathi> I kind of like YAML.
11:01:37 <tathi> Except that it's kind of ad hoc and informally specified.
11:03:35 <virl> yes, that's quite nice, but it's not the format which browsers support.
11:05:33 <virl> did anybody use mono? and how were your experiences? 
11:07:13 <tathi> mono?
11:09:22 <JasonWoof> formats that browsers support?
11:09:27 <JasonWoof> wow, then you're really scraping the barrel
11:09:37 <JasonWoof> I think my favorite format that browsers support is PNG. that or txt
11:10:06 <virl> what do you mean with 'then you're really scraping the barrel'?
11:10:08 <JasonWoof> maybe I'll do text wrapping myself and use <pre>
11:10:11 <tathi> Well, YAML isn't a markup language for text content, it's more for data structures.
11:10:30 <tathi> Meant to be a replacement for some uses of XML (for config files and such).
11:10:46 <JasonWoof> virl: I mean that you have very few choices if you want to work in browsers, and they aren't that great.
11:10:50 <JasonWoof> virl: except for png
11:11:17 <virl> yes, I know.
11:11:45 <JasonWoof> I really hate having to encode characters
11:12:15 <JasonWoof> just to output a normal string of text like this line, you have to look at each character and make sure it's not "special" and if it is mangle it
11:12:34 <JasonWoof> just so that when it's parsed by another computer that computer can look at each character and see if it needs to be unmangled
11:12:54 <JasonWoof> and for what?
11:13:15 <JasonWoof> so computer geeks with crappy text editors can look at it without risk of misinterpreting a character?
11:13:43 <JasonWoof> guess it also enables geeks to edit the pages with a text editor
11:14:45 <JasonWoof> maybe if people weren't so bad at making editors, we could just have an editor for editing various file types
11:14:51 <JasonWoof> much like you do for images and such
11:15:39 <JasonWoof> it bothers me that it's even possible to make an html file with improper nesting
11:19:04 <virl> xhtml should solve that, iirc.
11:19:16 <JasonWoof> solve what?
11:19:45 <JasonWoof> with xhtml you're not supposed to do improper nesting, but you _can_
11:20:05 <JasonWoof> if the format only had one end tag, it wouldn't be possible
11:20:22 <JasonWoof> eg </>
11:20:40 <JasonWoof> <p>bla<em>bla!</></>
11:22:45 <virl> xhtml is based on xml and so it should cry when there would be improper nesting
11:23:16 <JasonWoof> should
11:23:26 <JasonWoof> it's a pain to do the checking nessesary
11:23:32 <virl> yes it should
11:23:44 <JasonWoof> but I don't think the browsers do
11:29:38 --- join: Robert (n=robert@unaffiliated/robert) joined #forth
11:30:51 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-49-59.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
11:35:03 <Robert> Hi Ray.
11:37:53 <virl> hi Raystm2 our best man! :)
11:43:42 * JasonWoof punctuates virl.
11:45:54 --- quit: nanstm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:46:59 --- join: Raystm2_ (n=Raystm2@adsl-69-149-46-42.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
11:51:02 --- quit: Robert ("leaving")
11:53:47 --- quit: Raystm2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:54:56 --- quit: FiLa (Remote closed the connection)
11:59:17 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
12:10:51 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
12:19:52 --- quit: snowrichard ("Leaving")
12:23:14 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-93-43-209.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
12:26:24 <Ray_work> hi ya'll, 
12:26:36 <slava> hi
12:26:36 <Ray_work> I don't know what's wrong with my machine at home. 
12:26:45 <Ray_work> looks like it keeps droping the connection.
12:27:01 <Ray_work> must be in the config of one of the firewalls.
12:27:06 --- join: snoopy_17 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-175-220.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
12:28:18 <Ray_work> My appologies for all the quits-n-fits
12:28:24 --- quit: Snoopy42 (Nick collision from services.)
12:28:54 --- nick: snoopy_17 -> Snoopy42
12:33:10 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
12:38:08 --- quit: Raystm2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:18:22 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
14:29:04 --- quit: OrngeTide ("pants")
15:43:26 --- quit: slava (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:57:41 <Quartus> Hey, all.
15:59:14 <Raystm2> Hi Quartus :)
17:03:46 --- part: onetom left #forth
19:33:08 --- join: OrngeTide (i=orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth
19:37:58 --- quit: virl (Remote closed the connection)
19:42:21 --- quit: OrngeTide ("uh. okay")
21:13:38 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth
21:58:57 --- quit: aum (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:06 --- quit: Snoopy42 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:06 --- quit: madgarden (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:06 --- quit: cmeme (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:14 --- quit: humulus (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:14 --- quit: crc (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:14 --- quit: skylan (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:14 --- quit: snowrichard (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:21 --- quit: Raystm2 (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:21 --- quit: madwork (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:21 --- quit: Quartus (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:21 --- quit: warpzero (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:59:21 --- quit: ianp (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
22:01:26 --- join: crc (i=crc@pdpc/supporter/active/crc) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: aum (n=aum@60-234-156-82.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: snowrichard (n=richard@adsl-69-155-177-154.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: Snoopy42 (i=snoopy_1@dslb-084-058-175-220.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: Raystm2 (n=Raystm2@adsl-68-93-43-209.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: madgarden (n=madgarde@Quebec-HSE-ppp3617924.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: cmeme (n=cmeme@boa.b9.com) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: madwork (n=foo@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: Quartus (n=trailer@CPE0001023f6e4f-CM013349902843.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: warpzero (n=warpzero@wza.us) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: humulus (n=humulus@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: skylan (n=sjh@dialup-216-211-4-58.tbaytel.net) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- join: ianp (i=ian@audiowiki.com) joined #forth
22:01:26 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o crc
22:21:14 --- join: homeness (n=Miranda@savant.kz) joined #forth
22:22:38 <homeness> Hello! Is here Quartus Forth users? :)
22:49:46 <JasonWoof> homeness: the author of quartus is here a fair amount
22:50:14 <JasonWoof> homeness: in fact... he appears to be in this room
22:52:34 <JasonWoof> anyway, I'm off to bed. up in 4.5 hours
23:13:57 <Quartus> Hi...
23:14:04 <Quartus> Hi homeness.  How are you?
23:45:07 <homeness> Neal?
23:45:19 <Quartus> Hi.
23:45:56 <homeness> Hi again :) I'm still waiting for new RegSoft  action...
23:46:09 <Quartus> I saw the notes, hopefully that solves it!
23:46:36 <homeness> Me to :) But now i'm using Dragon Forth and SP-Forth 
23:47:00 <Quartus> What are you writing?
23:48:09 <homeness> I'm tring to write simple classic games like Lode Runner and Builder Dash :)
23:48:31 <Quartus> I believe you'll have better luck with Quartus Forth for that -- it's faster.
23:49:49 <homeness> I like any little comps. I have ipaq 1940, tungten E and HP 100LX. Last is my favorite :)
23:51:01 <homeness> I will be happy to have ability for porting my program to any platfrom.
23:51:36 <homeness> What about porting of Quartus Forth to winXX and Linux?
23:55:19 <Quartus> homeness, I'm not sure a direct port would be useful.
23:55:49 <Quartus> Quartus Forth is very much tailored to the Palm OS.  To port it would mean to create a mostly-new system for each target.
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/05.11.15